Hillary we're told took the nomination by flipping Bernies SD's

[azurnoir]

so I guess that makes the bestest thing any candidate could do

[Trust Buster]

1. Her's flipped to Obama when he became inevitable. That's how it works.

[Skink]

2. Bernie wins the nom by flipping hers.

[onenote]

26. And what will convince them to switch?

[Demsrule86]

70. The supers sent Bernie a message yesterday

He will concede. He has little choice. Bernie will have a great speech I am sure and get much of what he wanted on the platform...and so it goes...someone wins and someone loses.

[Agnosticsherbet]

3. Do you have a link? I have searched for a link of the actual Super Delegates.

[azurnoir]

4. USA today said it she has now secured enough SD's for the nomination

On Monday night, the Associated Press said that Clinton had secured the support of enough superdelegates to clinch the Democratic presidential nomination when the party convenes at its July convention in Philadelphia. The announcement came on the eve of the last round of state primaries.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/06/hillary-clinton-democratic-nomination/85485764/

[Adrahil]

13. I didn't see a mention of her flipping any supers...

I assume some previously uncommited delegates committed.

[azurnoir]

15. I'm sure you do at that

[Adrahil]

18. Can you point out the quote?

Or are just assuming it?

[azurnoir]

28. see post #21 it's simple logic really

[Adrahil]

38. What? Dude....

Lots of supers have remained uncommitted. Liz Warren, for example. Neither Obama nor Biden have publicly announced their vote. Neither has Nancy Pelosi.

So, some of those who haven't yet publicly committed did so when surveyed. There us no reason to believe anyone flipped, though i would expect some to domso now that she is the presumptive nominee. Probably after she clinches the majority of pledged delegates tomorrow.

[azurnoir]

40. ummmmhmmm

[Adrahil]

42. Yeah, I know. Big words. You can do it! NT

[azurnoir]

43. ummmhmm insults it's all you seem to have

[Adrahil]

53. When then, look here...

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P16/D-PU.phtml

This tracks the delegates, including supers. Now, they don't have the latest data the AP has, but notice..... About 140 unpledged supers, including 17 from Ca. Also, notice MANY more unannounced supers than supers who have declared for Bernie. Why bother try to flip his, when it's likely a huge chunk of the undeclareds already intend to support Hillary.

Some of those 140 declared themselves to the AP.

This isn't hard.

[Demsrule86]

71. Here is a link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Democratic_Party_superdelegates,_2016

[Thinkingabout]

5. Strange this should be mentioned about flipping sper delegates but it appears to be working well

For Hillary

[azurnoir]

6. so you're admitting all the outrage over Bernie supposedly doing it was a distraction because

it was Hillary greasing up the SD's all along?

[onenote]

29. To the extent there was "outrage" it was at the idea of flipping supers even though

Clinton had defeated Sanders by every imaginable metric. Sanders delegates flipping or being flipped isn't the same since they're just abandoning the lost cause.

[Thinkingabout]

59. No, don't rewrite my post, it is strange there should be complaints about flipping delegates

Since this has been a game plan by the Sanders campaign. Why plan to flip the super delegates and then complain about delegates flipping.

[Agnosticsherbet]

7. Delegate math: Clinton wins, and how AP counts delegates

Delegate math: Clinton wins, and how AP counts delegates
ASHINGTON (AP) — Lifted by a big win in Puerto Rico and a burst of late support from Democratic superdelegates, Hillary Clinton has commitments from the number of delegates needed to become the Democratic Party's presumptive nominee for president.


She reached the required 2,383 delegates on Monday, according to an Associated Press count.

Here's a look at the count and how the AP determined Clinton has enough delegates to become the presumptive nominee, besting her primary rival, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders.


In the primary elections and caucuses, Clinton has won 1,812 pledged delegates. Sanders has won 1,521. That gives her a lead of 291.

That is far more than the 131-delegate lead that then-Sen. Barack Obama held over Clinton when he clinched the Democratic nomination on June 4, 2008.

Among superdelegates, Clinton has the support of 571. Sanders has the backing of 48. That gives Clinton a lead of 523 superdelegates.

Overall, Clinton has 2,383 delegates, Sanders 1,569.

In the rest, they say what they did, but do not name names.

[azurnoir]

8. so again you guys pulled it off well screamed and shouted at the top of your lungs how

evil and cheating Bernie was for even considering flipping SD's when all along it was your candidate who was greasing them up

well played but what does that say about your candidate and the sort campaign she ran?

[Agnosticsherbet]

11. I sense some hostility.

Now it's time to kick Trump's ass.

[azurnoir]

12. Good luck with that I mean it sincerely they are well matched though

[Agnosticsherbet]

16. Trump is a bigoted racist, misogynistic, narcissistic megalomaniac

We will win this one. No luck will be necessary. Only hard work.

[Hiraeth]

22. she is too. just better at hiding it.

[Skink]

31. That was just mean man. Mean.

[Hiraeth]

34. truth out.

fuck the dumb.

[Skink]

36. Snicker

[Hiraeth]

45. He is a BULL. She is a CRAB.

[passiveporcupine]

24. Hostility?

Do you think people are often hostile when confronted with immoral tactics that suppress them?

Because that may be what we are...hostile because this is a hostile takeover of the democratic process. Supers are not supposed to be include in that 'magic' number. Not that it hasn't happened before...it has, historically! That doesn't make it right, and when we finally have someone with the gumption to stand up to this corrupt system and say no...I'm not quitting until the race is over, you can't handle it so are cheering on the press for calling it before the primaries are even over, disenfranchising all the voters in the remaining states.

Yes, we might be a little hostile, but someone is a little crooked here and it's not Bernie camp.

[onenote]

33. Losing and being suppressed are not the same

even though you probably can't see that at the moment.

[azurnoir]

47. exactly no names

[Lord Magus]

9. Really, you have an actual information to that regard?

It seems that some of the 100+ uncommitted superdelegates decided to announce for Hillary, not that anybody flipped from Bernie to Hillary.

[sufrommich]

10. What? Sanders didn't have enough SDs to bother trying to flip.

[Doctor Jack]

14. The most supers that have ever been flipped is 30

Obama holds the record of flipping the most superdelegates since the dems introduced the system. He got 30 to switch sides in 2008. Sanders needs to flip about 400.

[Hortensis]

65. Interesting, thanks. Good for perspective too.

As for Hillary "flipping" Sanders' few commitments, nonsense. If any changed endorsement, they did it themselves.

[Control-Z]

17. Did you just make that up?

She didn't/doesn't need Sander's SDs. Please provide a source for your information.

[azurnoir]

21. did SD's commit prior to their respective states votes? that's what would have to happen

otherwise she flipped Bernies

[moriah]

30. That makes no sense.

Flipping Bernie delegates would mean flipping superdelegates who already announced being committed to Bernie.

[azurnoir]

32. yess it would and notice AP hasn't released their names either -hmmmmm

[LiberalFighter]

62. I don't believe that AP release names. But wiki and 538 do.

[moriah]

64. Interesting thing, in playing with math....

Okay, so AP is claiming only 99 uncommitted SDs (813 votes left, 714 of them pledged , but the Wiki page last updated had 129 uncommitted. Still, Hillary's SD totals go up by 31 and Bernie's 2, for 33 delegates added to totals?

Unless we have actually 96 uncommitted Superdelegates and 3 delegates are still outstanding from uncertified totals?

[Demsrule86]

37. That is not true

There were 40 delegates ready to commit yesterday.

[LaydeeBug]

67. There was still hundreds of uncommitted supers. You seem to think they're all accounted for nt

[Norman Conch Quest]

19. Source, Please

[azurnoir]

23. see post #21

[Demsrule86]

20. Who told you?

She had 40 of her own ready to commit...she did not need his...if Bernie delegates decided to send him a message...oh well.

[azurnoir]

25. a little Birdie

see post #21

[moriah]

27. Odd, since yesterday had Bernie with 46 SDs on the AP list...

... and today there are 48.

[azurnoir]

35. Then IF true delegates are committing prior to their respective state voting -interesting

oh BTW can you link it for us?

[moriah]

39. I was using Google's "primary results" AP thingamajig.

Wish I had a screenshot from last night, but I was looking at those numbers specifically to determine how many SDs he'd have to flip if he came within 50 delegates of 2026 pledged. The thing said 46 last night, I swear.

[azurnoir]

41. But you said 48 SD's for Bernie as of now

27. Odd, since yesterday had Bernie with 46 SDs on the AP list...

... and today there are 48.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2144009

[moriah]

44. Yeah, Google Primary Results.

http://www.google.com/search?q=primary+results&oq=primary+res&sourceid=silk&ie=UTF-8#eob=m.09c7w0/D/6/short/m.09c7w0/

[azurnoir]

46. well we'll just have to take the word of a Hillary surrogate that she didn't do it

[moriah]

48. Me, a Hillary surrogate? Thanks so much for your personal attacks.

When I've sat here and provided you all the information that I remember, even if I didn't have the presence of mind last night to take a screenshot, not knowing it would be needed today.

[azurnoir]

49. sorry I didn't know it was an attack to super Hillary

[moriah]

54. Calling me a Hillary surrogate certainly is an attack. Same as a shill.

I don't speak for her.

Now, here's the Wikipedia article on SD announcements prior, still not updated.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Democratic_Party_superdelegates,_2016

Showing Bernie with 46 and Hillary with 540 SDs at last page update.

[azurnoir]

55. so surrogate and shill mean the same things-reminds of an episode of South Park that was on a couple

of hours ago - I don't think they do

[moriah]

56. A surrogate speaks for someone else, so does a shill.

I am speaking for myself only.

So I am a SUPPORTER.

Okay?

[moriah]

58. And since you need help on definitions:

http://www.wisegeek.com/in-politics-what-is-a-campaign-surrogate.htm

A campaign surrogate is a term used to describe a person who acts on the behalf of a candidate running for some sort of political office. The campaign surrogate often appears at public events that the candidate cannot make it to, or may simply appear to bolster the image of the candidate in a certain demographic.

I could wish I had that much clout.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization. Shills can carry out their operations in the areas of media, journalism, marketing or other business areas.

Again, speaking not just their own opinions but coordinating them somehow.

Nice I guess that you think I'm some fancy Clinton elite, if you can get me the cash that's supposed to go with it, that'd be great.

[azurnoir]

60. so you'd do it if they paid you? otherwise what?

again sorry I did not mean to offend but you do seem very supportive of Hillary

[moriah]

61. And if that's enough reason to call someone a campaign surrogate, looked at yourself pot?

I'm kettle.

We're both passionate about our candidates.

Edit to add: sorry if I seem sensitive, but I've been here eight years, had over 5k posts without a single hide, and I am sick and fucking tired of being accused of being someone else's parrot when I have the bloody audacity to state my goddamn opinion. That's all.)

[frazzled]

50. Superdelegates can support whomever they want and whenever they want

Those are the rules. They are under no obligation to vote for the "winner" of their state. And they can commit the day a candidate first announces ... as many did. And they can change their minds at any time before or during the convention. But there's no earthly reason that superdelegates supporting the candidate who has won the most pledged delegates and the most popular votes during the primary season would flip in any numbers for the loser. Especially a loser who has done nothing but badmouth the party relentlessly, continually say that its rules are "rigged," and who publicly announces he will bring a fight to the convention.

Jeebus.

[azurnoir]

51. No but most usually wait until then

[frazzled]

57. No, not really.

It doesn't matter anyway ... Sanders has lost the pledged delegate race by some 300 delegates (a gap that will probably increase over the course of these last races). He has no claim to anything. Even without a single superdelegate coming into play. And that didn't happen because superdelegates had committed to Hillary. Most voters aren't even aware of superdelegates or whom they are supporting.

Sometimes candidates just lose. Accept it.

[JI7]

63. no they don't. they might end up switching as a result of the elections but most endorse early

[RandySF]

52. That would be ironic

[charlyvi]

68. I know, right?

Like his whole strategy wasn't trying to flip hers.

[NCTraveler]

66. I have argued that Clinton has a better position to take his than the other way around.

I clearly stated that not only will she get the remaining available SD's, she will take most of his before the convention. Not only is Sanders not going to gain as he argues for SD's, he is going to fall further behind. Clinton has the better case.

[Demsrule86]

69. So explain to me how Bernie still has the same number of delegates? nt

[PeaceNikki]

72. He had less than 50 SD's. She has ELEVEN TIMES that.

They weren't 'flipped' - they were uncommitted but pledged HRC after the weekend's results.