2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSanders may have lost but he was right a lot also.
Some of his ideas may seem pie in the sky to some but they rightfully deserve a serious discussion by us as a party. Medicare for all, college tuition free, income inequality. We should be able to make these things happen, if not now then lets move towards making them happen. This is not a hijack Clinton thread, all due respect to her and the ideas she wants to put forward but we have to challenge her. I think Obama would have been even better if we had challenged him more. We also have to vote, not just in GE's but in off years. Millions of millennials got interested in politics, its up to us to keep them interested and one way to do that is to listen to the ideas they have, the ones they support and to actually consider them and not just brush them off and make them feel even more alienated from the political process.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)to talk about Sanders. He will continue his message, which is good.
Regarding conceding, it seems entirely likely that he means exactly what he says -- that he intends to try to overset the majority vote at the convention. That's not good, but democracy will win and he'll have to continue his "revolution" some other way. Maybe even through cooperation with and persuasion of the undefeated forces; perhaps he will be temporarily capable of that.
If this man understood that the entire left, in and out of office, wants what he's trying to accomplish, he might just have been our nominee. "Divide and conquer" refers to dividing the enemy, not dividing your own side.
In my view, there is no justice when the 15 wealthiest people in this country in the last two years, saw their wealth increase by $170 billion. That is more wealth acquired in a two year period than is owned by the bottom 130 million Americans.
Income and wealth inequality have reached obscene levels, the threat of climate change is more frightening than ever, and the billionaire class is now allowed to spend unlimited amounts of money to buy the candidate they want. And it is up to us to stand up and fight back. If we stand together, there is no limit to what we can accomplish.
If you can't afford to take care of your veterans , then don't go to war. - Bernie Sanders
Dustlawyer
(10,494 posts)I am talking about Puerto Rico and Rhode Island and all of the state's that cut polling places this year under the guise of not having enough money.
We will be very vocal on the changes that need to occur. We will call out the President and Congress when they try to pay back their Donors. More of us are awake now and not buying the BS anymore. More of us realize that we live under corporate rule, not in a country with Representative Democracy! Representative Democracy is dead, its representative donors now.
Our political revolution will continue to advance. We will be raising money in a national campaign to recruit and elect a slate of House candidates who subscribe to the ideals set by Bernie and our movement. We will call out Hillary if she is elected President each time she goes to pay back Wall Street. We will do the same for a President Trump who we will probably have to push for impeachment the first time he does something really stupid or corrupt. Probably the first or second day of his term at the rate he is going. The next midterms will be really interesting!
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I'd pretend Puerto Rico's severe austerity measures are merely a "guise" too; as the reality is simply far too obvious and stark for our biases to allow it. I imagine that given enough time, you may even come to believe the pretense.
MFM008
(19,803 posts)renate
(13,776 posts)Lots of European countries, especially the Nordic/Baltic ones, provide the things he's talking about, have much less income inequality, and (what really matters) much happier populations. It is SO possible to help each other out and for everybody (except perhaps the 1%) to end up happier and more secure as a result. And I think we would feel more like one America, not red America and blue America, if we could restore that "we're all in this together" feeling.
And it's just a matter of practical importance to the future of the Democratic party to keep the young voters engaged. Young voters got Obama elected in 2008; it's essential, and democratic, to listen to what matters to them, both for this election and for the future.
DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)has to some good ideas.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)Wall Street and corporate America. It would take pretty much a political revolution at least. Back in the 20th century when they created Social Security and Medicare they only could do it because the unions were very strong and they were a big part of the power behind the Democrats. Today labor is very weak compared to back then and there is not really any other powerful force like that to cancel out the corporate interests. Democrats may pay lip service to these ideas but that's it.
Eko
(7,272 posts)are the key to what you will think. If you said "hey how about single payer" and my first three words were "I don't think" what would that tell you? It would tell you that I was stuck in what I thought and did not give your question an actual chance. You started with a negative, how progressive is that? Look how close Sanders came, if that is not inspiration to keep on then I dont think,,, ha ha ha,,,,look at that, I almost went down that same road. Start over shall we?, Look how close Sanders came, there is obviously a tremendous (not going to say huge) interest for those policies, it wouldn't take much to build on that in the party to make it the choice. So you have two choices, I don't think or I think. I think we can do this. I think we can build on this. I think I will.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)His ideas are a little short on substance. Let's take the ones you mentioned:
1) Medicare is an insurance program, with premiums, copays, annual enrollment and all the rest of the headaches. Which is what people don't like about ACA.
2) College is already free at least in CA. It's the fees that have gotten out of hand.
3) Income inequality is not something to aspire to.
Yes, yes, pure snark, but all of his ideas are about as sound as a bank in a Hollywood backlot. There's no there there.
Eko
(7,272 posts)1) yes.
2) Dont live in CA but I will take your word for it.
3) Its actually to reduce it.
Sure, I get it, but we have time to find that substance and flesh it out, at the least to see if we really can do it. Some countries already do some of this so we could build on that. These aren't impossible things anymore than gay marriage was. We are capable of doing some of this. At the least creating some commissions to flesh it out, shoot, we have commissions to see what color of cheese we like the most. (not really sure of that, there are plenty of weird ones though).
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)and all the other boring Democratic programs Bernie never mentions but Bill and Hill can talk about for hours at stretch. I've heard all three in the last couple of weeks and I'd much rather elect the guy and gal who know whereof they speak.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)If people wanted the furthest left policies they would have gone with O'Malley to take on Clinton. Sanders isn't big on even knowing details much less having plans. I believe that was an error in judgement on their parts. They went with the activist candidate with a limited grasp of details over a solid left policy wonk.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)And their policies. And the Democratic party. And its policies. And Wall Street or at least the corruption it supposedly inflicts on the aforementioned. So now his supporters are convinced that any election Bernie loses is rigged and they have a moral obligation to not vote for Democrats especially Hillary.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)It could be done in about 10 minutes. And it would resolve the conflict between federal and state laws, not just in states that have legalized for recreational use, but the currently more than HALF that have legalized for medical use.
As it stands, leaving things the way they are- or even a token move from Schedule I to II, as Hillary has proposed- leaves the conflict between federal and state law intact. And descheduling it federally would not prevent states- like Alabama, or Texas, or New York- from continuing to criminalize it if their voters choose to.
It's the right thing to do, AND it's the politically astute thing to do, because a majority of Americans think the stuff should be legalized.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)President makes treaties and appointments.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)talking about?
And actually, Mr. self-appointed Expert, you're not entirely correct. Apparently Hillary does understand this better than you do.
the DEA can decide to reschedule cannabis, which they won't do because no one wants to torpedo their favorite gravy train.
Or, yes, Congress can do it.
OR the executive can do it. The process via which it can be done administratively- basically, through HHS and then the Atty. General, both operating under the executive branch- is more complex, but probably not more complex than getting our gridlocked congress to do jack shit. And since medical experts have known for decades that cannabis is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man, any honest science-based HHS inquiry can only come to one conclusion.
http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/fixgov/posts/2015/02/13-how-to-reschedule-marijuana-hudak-wallack
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)See? That was kind of fun wasn't it?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)You can admit it, you know. You probably won't turn to dust or melt or some shit.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Read the Constitution
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Not that I'm keeping score.
One, in your assertion that none of Sanders's proposals are legitimate, substantive, or make any sense. (quote: "all of his ideas are about as sound as a bank in a Hollywood backlot. There's no there there."
I provided one, which is, is, and does. Makes a lot of sense, both morally and politically.
Two, in your assertion- and lets not be facile, here, this was the point you were clearly trying to make- that ONLY congress and not the POTUS has the power to re- or deschedule cannabis from the CSA.
...I get that you like to wave, that's nice.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Yes of course.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I actually know what I'm talking about.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Congress is where the change needs to be made to see those measures happen. What's more, it doesn't matter if it's Hillary or Bernie. We get a progressive congress elected, either of our candidates would sign off on the legislation.
I've been saying since before the primary season started, the focus is too much on the Presidency and not nearly enough on the house and senate.
In progressive states, blue dogs and moderates need to be primaried and taken out.
In moderate states, the most electible progressive needs to be targeted.
In conservative states, the focus needs to be getting the most "D"'s elected to get the majority in both chambers empowering the progressives elected in the progressive and moderate states. Even if they are DINO or blue dog, where that is the only option or an "R".. Take the DINO.
As much as the Tea party had a disgusting agenda, there's no arguing the effectiveness they had in changing congress, and that did get them a lot of what they wanted. We focus on changing congress, and we can have it. If we don't, we won't. It won't matter who POTUS is.
Thanks.
Dustlawyer
(10,494 posts)campaign to raise money to fund a slate of House Congressional candidates. They will subscribe to Bernie's policy proposals, especially Publicly Funded Elections. We should be able to get several of our candidates elected during the next midterms. We will grow to become a powerful voice of the people and eventually take over and institute fair policies that protect the middle class and start restoring our rights and eliminating the special rules favoring the wealthy over the 99%.
A big job will be in reorganizing the priorities of our budget, eliminating the give aways to wealthy corporations and the MIC. Much can be done with the money we already spend. Auditing the Pentagon will show just how much waste, fraud and abuse is costing us in the military budget without weakening defense.
Our political revolution may be slowed somewhat by not having Bernie at the Bully Pulpit, but it will continue until we achieve Representative Democracy!
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Very generalized concepts and spot on.
randome
(34,845 posts)He blew his chance at doing these ideas justice by being unprepared for a primary from the start. Poor planning translates to poor results. Hopefully the next standard-bearer for meaningful change will do better.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)If one can't get elected. Michael Foot had some brilliant ideas, fat lot of good it did him.
Renew Deal
(81,851 posts)Him and Hillary were always sighing a few points of each other either way. They agree on far more than they disagree
http://www.isidewith.com
DrDan
(20,411 posts)Bernie had some great ideas. Some of us just did not agree he was qualified to lead the nation. But that does not mean we should not work toward implementing the ideas he put forward. A small step in the direction he has laid out is better than none.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)Is our likely nominee free, finally, to stand on her own and lead us to some progressive change? If so, she's a Democrat that Sanders and I could get behind enthusiastically.
Robbins
(5,066 posts)beyond lip service which Clinton would never inact.
she will never do any progressive change.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)The corporatists have won this round.
The bailout to the banksters.
The payout to the insurance companies with the ACA.
The continuing war economy. Half of out tax dollars go to the military.
The never ending tax cuts and paybacks to the rich.
America is ending.
Get used to it.
Whether Hilliary or Trump is president, this is true.
This is a war, and though they have won this round, we can still win the war. Perhaps not in my generation, but maybe in future generations, if the young folks step up. I have to hand it to Bernie in that he has inspired them. I only hope that they keep up their activism.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)only in the measurement of popularity.
One of the things I found most reassuring about science was it's dream to make correct interpretations of phenomena of the natural world independent of public popularity.
Eko
(7,272 posts)reflection
(6,286 posts)I was for Bernie, but when it became apparent it was not to be, the goal could only be to change the narrative. And I think he has largely done that. The movement will continue and it will be interesting to see who the faces of it are down the road. Hopefully the party does a little navel-gazing and figures out (imo) that progressive populism is the right direction in which to proceed.
In any event, I'm sorry my guy lost, but congratulations to Hillary Clinton. Personally, I think Trump is so toxic that any candidate we put forth would clean his clock. I look forward to Hillary annihilating this clown in November.
I will never congratule clinton.she is enemy of everything bernie was trying to fight for.there is no future for progressives in
democratic party.I have long said short of nomination there is no victory for bernie.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)So when you say: "she is enemy of everything bernie was trying to fight for" you are simply, factually, wrong.
reflection
(6,286 posts)You may very well be right about the party marginalizing progressives. I guess we'll see. In the interim, we push for change. Beats giving up.
rock
(13,218 posts)And Sanders' ideas do deserve a serious discussion, it seems that that he didn't want a discussion since he had already unilaterally decided what was best for us all.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)But I hope he works to really inspire some young social democrats to get involved and make a difference.