2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumVery very sad audience reaction at Bernies
When Clinton mentioned BS tonight, her crowd CHEERED LOUDLY. When BS mentioned Hillary, crowd was nasty and BOOOED LOUDLY. Respect for all clearly is not something Bernie or his supporters believe in.
This my friends, is more evidence I made the right choice. Proudly: #ImWithHer
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It's just the way it is. No one can "make" someone else like a person. It's visceral. It's just the way it is.
Those who voted for Hillary knew from the get-go that Bernie voters did not and do not like her.
Now, in my opinion, it is up to Hillary to win the support of Bernie voters. No one has an obligation to like this person or that, not even Hillary.
Only Hillary can change the reality that Bernie voters for the most part, including even those who are willing to vote for her, really do not like her and have good reasons in their minds for disliking and distrusting her.
This is Hillary's challenge.
Bernie voters are not bad people just because they don't like Hillary.
Dealing with this is a test for Hillary.
riversedge
(70,204 posts)Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)Please - she is a grown woman and so am I - get over it.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)In my opinion, Bernie lost California partly because of the way Sen. Boxer and Sen. Feinstein were treated by Bernie supporters.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)We boo against Trump.
Booing is human behavior and expression. You may perceive it as rude and bullying if you are on the receiving end of it. But it does not hurt anyone. It's just booing. It's just sound. It's just free expression.
Hillary now has the challenge of trying to win the support of Bernie supporters who do not like her.
Whether she can do that may decide the outcome of the November election. It's her problem now that she thinks she has the nomination.
And indeed, whether she really does have the nomination may depend i great part on whether and how she can endear herself to Bernie supporters. Thus far, she has failed miserably at that task.
This is not like some primaries in which the supporters of both candidates will willingly support whatever candidate wins the nomination. Bernie supporters, many, many Bernie supporters, really do not like Hillary.
Hillary and her supporters can chastise, chide and scold Bernie supporters all they want to about this fact, but that will not change the feelings of the Bernie supporters.
So now Hillary and her supporters have to figure out how to win over Bernie supporters. Not an easy job.
And there is still the possibility that Bernie will win the nomination. Hillary has a lot of problems. Trump started in on her today. His words were really ugly. If Hillary cannot win Bernie supporters over, it is possible that the nomination will not be hers.
PJMcK
(22,035 posts)You're right, JDPriestly, that Secretary Clinton needs to reach out to Senator Sanders' supporters to mend the fences and bring all Democrats together. That's her first challenge. Then she needs to lead the Democrats to victory against the Republicans.
I believe she can achieve these goals.
Vote a straight Democratic ticket!
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)Right there, you make it impossible to win you over. You're denying reality. She does have the nomination.
Nedsdag
(2,437 posts)Thank you.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Then how in the world is she going to handle the Republicans?
Do you have a presidential candidate, or an antique porcelain doll in a hermetically sealed case? Figure it out before November.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)A lot of Sanders support is a mile wide and inch deep.
merrily
(45,251 posts)people put it out while you were still a Sanders's supporter, it seems to have stuck with you. Good going!
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)I see no contradiction. It's the faux anti-Clinton "Sanders supporters" who only support him because ... he's anti-Clinton. That's why the mere mention of Clinton's name is boo-worthy for them.
Sanders didn't create this beast, Weaver and Devine did. And they aren't going to be able to put it in a pandoras box. It's going to be up to Sanders and he'll feel like a lot of bridges are burnt, but it won't be his fault.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)joshcryer and I are not the only ones.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Besides, you at least have the excuse that you were an O'Malley supporter early on. And, by the time you felt you had to switch to Sanders because you supposedly thought him more electible than Hillary, you saw the terrible, terrible behavior of the Obama Boys Bernie Bros and were so totally turned off you could not bring yourself to post in support of Sanders.
Josh, however, was supposedly a Sanders supporter from the off, before Sanders even announced. I think he was claiming that maybe as far back as 2014.
But, I'm sure Josh will appreciate your jumping in to defend him.
Samantha
(9,314 posts)You will be surprised at what the future holds as a result of the Sanders campaign.
Sam
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)In spite of the anti-Clinton hordes it has attracted.
JI7
(89,248 posts)and these are mostly NOT the younger/millenials either.
they are ones who do this just about every election.
MFM008
(19,808 posts)Matt_in_STL
(1,446 posts)Because it doesn't apply here at all.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Matt_in_STL
(1,446 posts)In the fable, the fox does not get the grapes and tries to push off his disappointment by saying "Those grapes were probably sour anyway" as a way of saying he didn't really want the grapes.
In this case, Bernie does want to be the President and nobody is saying the Presidency is bad (sour). Misuse of fable.
The Hillary people have great respect for the Bernie voters.
I saw it in the OP, it must be true?
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)narcissistic ego
Haveadream
(1,630 posts)then giving Hillary "tests" to see if she can do it is a losing enterprise. Especially if it is "visceral" and "the way it is". Nothing she can say will work because she will be accused of lying or being phony.
As far as testing Hillary to see if she can deal with it (which sounds like a very creepy thing to want to do) she's proven herself to be good at handling haters for a long time.
That Guy 888
(1,214 posts)I didn't think much of the p.u.m.a.s and didn't feel like wasting my time to convert them. It's strange to see some of the weirdest posts from Clinton supporters worrying about boos.
I personally don't see how Clinton can win me over, and don't expect her to try. To me, she is a very divisive campaigner, a neo-con, and while not necessarily a phony, she is a politician who doesn't realize how much having video capable phones undermines pandering to audiences.
bigdarryl
(13,190 posts)Mrs.CLinton with a passion as they do.They hate her more than they hate republicans who hate all democrsts its mind boggling.
djean111
(14,255 posts)and increasing H-1B visas and cluster bombs and saying no to single payer and yes to bloody regime change and interventions and less Wall Street regulations. Hillary proudly stands FOR those things. Third Way neocon hawk. Oh, and she lies. (waves to alerters). These are things that are not good for actual people.
Why the fuck is that so hard to understand? I don't give a crap about Hillary as a person, although I think her husband is a sleazeball and would not invite them over for dinner. Yes, I know they don't care.
Anyone who hangs around with Kissinger and Pete Peterson, and espouses their policies of war and slashing of social programs, is a person I cannot support or vote for. If you do not understand that, I feel sorry for you.
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)She chose a polarizing path and now she has to walk it. Too bad about a few boos along the way.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)I don't hate her but I don't support her bid for the presidency.
I think your attempt to say they hate her more then republicans is disingenuous at worst and misguided at best.
bigdarryl
(13,190 posts)Of youngsters on this site I've never seen a democratic party nominee hated by the far left as Hillary has.It has nothing to do with her being for trade and by the way most Americans believe in trade agreements it's only a issue with some on the left
Florencenj2point0
(435 posts)what is a corporatist? No such thing
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)TeacherB87
(249 posts)And I think Bernie's meeting with Obama is partly about this. How can durable progressive principles be infused into the platform, the party, and the policy efforts from future Presidnrt Clinton. I hope she rises to the occasion.
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)I am very ambivalent about her. There are some things I really like and some things I really don't. If I had been there I would not have booed.
Florencenj2point0
(435 posts)it if up to you to decide what is the right thing to do for those people you claim to care about, the poor and downtrodden. If you think that is enabling tRump then you have some issues.
Hillary supporters just have more class and we are not whiny-assed babies, that is the difference. Plus it is easier to be the winners. I get that. Sux to be you.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)Either you want Hillary to succeed, or you want the party and progressiveness to succeed. It would appear you can't have both.
msongs
(67,405 posts)BreakfastClub
(765 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)You guys should know all about that.
BreakfastClub
(765 posts)in their own way. How you deal with it does say something about you though.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)She won a majority of votes of Democrats in the primaries thus far.
But she is not winning the support of Bernie supporters. Unless she figures out how to do that, her supposed win of the nomination (and that is not won until July 25) is not good enough to win in November.
This is Hillary's problem. We shall see how good she is at solving this problem. I am going to wait and see. Should be an interesting show to watch. Hillary trying to win over Bernie supporters. Hmmmmmmm!
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)Some of the Bernie supporters are first-time voters who won't vote...well we won without them before...some are Trump supporters who never intended to vote for any Democrat and most of the real Dems involved will vote for the Democratic nominee.
Florencenj2point0
(435 posts)they have been polled and they have said they will vote for her.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article70202867.html
86% will vote for Hillary! read it and weep! <------ Hillary and Bernie peeps except the dead-enders.
Florencenj2point0
(435 posts)beating tRump is going to be FUN!
LuvLoogie
(6,999 posts)The Left either needs to find a backing billionaire (see the Tea Party), or get a long game. Right now that means joining the fight and forming alliances and working relationships within the party.
Nothing succeeds like winning. Go Blue or go home.
forjusticethunders
(1,151 posts)Only looking good. That's probably has something to do with the fact that the professional "Left" trends richer and whiter than the American population.
Florencenj2point0
(435 posts)but yes, you are right!
LuvLoogie
(6,999 posts)I try not to deal with hypotheticals, but I do think that Barack and Hilary are equals, though their experiences and obstacles have been different and they have different perspectives and approaches.
I think people should embrace the fact that Hilary is a woman and not negate the importance of that perspective given the human experience and as it applies in power, leadership and political roles.
bigdarryl
(13,190 posts)It's a party that has different fractions
djean111
(14,255 posts)When things the party seems to stand for - like Hillary's stances - really sound more like the GOP? Time to go.
When the real feeling about the Left, IMO, is Rahm sneering that we are retards and where else we gonna go? Which, by the way, is pretty much the sentiment of Hillary's supporters here, , and the DNC. Okay, maybe some of us will just find another place to go.
A tent that is okay with Rick Warren and war and fracking and cluster bombs, etc., is not a tent - it is just an open-air corral.
Some of us cattle refuse to go down the chute. That's all that is happening. The Party has been drifting to the right, pulled by the Third Way and Wall Street, and some of us do not want to go there. Simple as that.
BreakfastClub
(765 posts)have that kind of class.
JudyM
(29,236 posts)On and on, and it matters. Fairness matters quite a bit to some. To others, not so much.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)It is not news.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Oh yeah, I won't be able to hear you anyway.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Even Obama couldn't really bring it back.
dchill
(38,484 posts)Can't help believing he tanked millions of other "middle class" economies, as well. I got bamboozled. I fell for the Okeydoke. I'm a progressive, by the way, not a Republican. I've been a member here for 12 years, and watched it degrade gradually to a haven for corporate apologists. Congratulations.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Unless she figures out a way to earn the votes of Bernie supporters.
I don't think she can do that.
bonemachine
(757 posts)Or, to put it another way, roughly 1% of the population.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)youceyec
(394 posts)Clinton supporters towards Sanders. We still respect him though. Difference does not mean bad.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Response to youceyec (Original post)
Post removed
LuvLoogie
(6,999 posts)It is surprising (or not) that "ratfucking and tricks" so easily besting the morally and intellectually superior is given as an excuse.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)This is the only choice to be made when the Left declares they will sit it out.
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)Sadly true and very frustrating.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Sadly true and very frustrating.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)that it will be so difficult for Hillary to win the support and votes of Bernie supporters.
It is a difficult problem for her.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)That is some stupid shit.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)It got worse after the LEft went for Nader in 2000.
The Left has become the most unreliable voting block in history.
And they have declared, they will sit out 2016. I take them at their word.
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)corporate powers that control the party. Until those on the left have more than a token seat at the table, nothing will change. Hillary, however, cannot win without a sizable number of Bernie voters. If she doesn't find a sincere way to reach out to them and bring them over, she's toast. The Republicans will unite and take many Independents along. Hillary is not well liked in the world outside the corporate wing of the Democratic Party. That has to change, and soon, or the history books will be referencing President Trump.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Then, when the party has no other choice but to move right, they become even bigger whiny babies over the mess they themselves made.
Bernie or Bust forces the party right, just like Nader forced the party right after 2000.
It's self defeating selfishness by whiny babies.
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)this issue without redorting to name calling. Perhaps that's another reason why Bernie supporters dislike Hilkary supporters so much. Grow up.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Whiny babies sit out elections because their feelings got hurt in a primary.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)"someone boooed!"
derp
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)to me.
leftinportland
(247 posts)an intervention may be in order...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6106026&mesg_id=6106553
Response to leftinportland (Reply #39)
Post removed
leftinportland
(247 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Can't just turn those feelings off like a light switch.
Democrats Ascendant
(601 posts)but because there really needs to be some transition and time. I remember '08 very well. Still, I'm disappointed that Sanders allowed it to go on so long.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)You'll come to love it.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)between Hillary's and Obama's views, support and campaigns.
There is a big difference, a fundamental philosophical difference between the Sanders and Clinton campaigns. That is going to be Hillary's problem going forward.
This is not at all like 2008.
riversedge
(70,204 posts)Bernies duty to tell his voters to be respectful. Obama even used to say "Vote, Dont Boo"...when talking about Republicans! Bernie can't even say that in support of the first female democratic nominee. Its wrong.
Anger is a net negative when you let it consume you.
And just like Hillary and every other primary loser before her went on to support nominee, Bernie has to do same. If he doesn't and Trump wins, it will be Bernies fault.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)On to Philly!
33taw
(2,440 posts)That Guy 888
(1,214 posts)I thought Clinton had gone pretty low in 2008, I thought she would have learned her lesson about dividing the party. This time around she went even lower.
Imagine if it were reversed and Sanders was winning. Imagine that Sanders had spent a lot of time sending out surrogates to say that you only supported Clinton because you were: sexist, racist, homophobic, an elitist who will be fine if republicans get into office, are too interested in "purity", have unrealistic goals(but Sanders would still try to poach them and say he thought of them first) and on and on. Then after broad-brushing you with political insults, Sanders just assumes that it's water under the bridge, doesn't address the excesses of his campaign's attacks and expects you to be dutiful chattel and support the victor.
No Democratic Presidential nominee has won Texas for 40 years, unless it's in play, I will vote for whoever I feel like. I will support down-ticket Dems.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Beacool
(30,247 posts)Hillary's crowd cheered when Sanders was mentioned, while Sanders' were boorish and booed.
Poor form. In life one must learn to deal with disappointment.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Hillary is going to have to win the votes of Sanders' voters if she thinks she is going to win in November.
We who support Bernie are supporting a movement. Hillary will have to deal with us and our movement. That's the way these things work.
This is a democracy, not a dictatorship. Hillary can't just say, "I won. Now do as I say." She has a big challenge on her hands: winning Bernie voters.
Unless, of course, she thinks she can win in November with Republican cross-over voters.
In that case, she should simply encourage Bernie to run on a third-party ticket and say goodbye to Bernie voters for good. That is an alternative for her.
This is very different from the 2008 primary. Bernie is much more different in his philosophy, his campaign and his policy proposals from Hillary than Hillary was from Obama.
I don't know whether Hillary can deal with this challenge. We shall see. There is also the chance that Bernie will be the nominee. There is still quite a while before the Convention. A lot can happen in that time.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Beacool didnt mention who Sanders voters were going to vote for, it was about behavior and attitude.
glowing
(12,233 posts)I guess he just doesn't believe suspending those ideals are what Anerica needs. If Hillary is smart, she'd let the guy keep on fighting agains Trump. Eventually, the party will come together... But take a clue, grab ahold of these ideas and push your candidate to embrace them. Believe me a billionaire doesn't need an extra billion for anything; especially when kids are starving in America!
HarmonyRockets
(397 posts)I thought it was embarrassing.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)than his rude supporters.
QC
(26,371 posts)about other people being rude.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)Hillary is an astroturf candidate backed by large corporations, and she and her corporate backers have used every trick in the book and invented some new ones to win this nomination against an excellent populist on the left, the first serious run from the left I've seen in my lifetime. What makes anyone think Bernie's supporters would have positive feelings, or even respect, for Hillary Clinton?
I realize there are some people here who are happy to support either person. But for many Bernie supporters, it's not that way at all, we've never supported Hillary, and we're sick and tired of being triangulated into the corner of supporting corporatist Democrats or enabling even worse Republicans. Yet here we are again.
This time is different, it really is, we are awakened and will not stop. The Bernie primary run was a great catalyst. We'll see where this movement goes from here. We love Bernie, and at the same time, it was never about him, it is about all of us. Either we get the Democratic Party to start supporting candidates who refuse corporate money, or we build a new party.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)okasha
(11,573 posts)are not "AstroTurf"
They are the Democratic Party's base. Senator Sanders failed to win their support, and he lost. It's that simple.
ashtonelijah
(340 posts)It made me cringe. I could even see Bernie cringing. He looked for a moment like he wanted to tell them to stop, but then he just continued his speech. He could've really had a moment there if he'd stood against that vulgar display of hatred. He could've restored a lot of the respect I had that has eroded over this primary season. So disappointing. I miss the old Bernie.
Response to ashtonelijah (Reply #66)
Post removed
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)As a Hillary supporter, I strongly disagree with this post and urge people to use more civil language.
bonemachine
(757 posts)Provide a little balance to the claim that it's all Sanders supporters who are poorly behaved
QC
(26,371 posts)accusing a decent person of being a racist, homophobe, misogynist, grifter, and so on (not to mention the open anti-Semitism that some have engaged in) than it is for some people somewhere to boo someone, but I guess we all have our own moral principles.
I just happen to think that bearing false witness is pretty bad.
I just happen to think that bearing false witness is pretty bad.
So are statements that would be libelous, if Sanders were not a public figure.
As bad or worse? Corruption.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Actually its that it was done with such joy that creates my disgust.
QC
(26,371 posts)but many here have forgotten that. Amazing how flexible some people's consciences are.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)She threw shade at him for the good he's done that she didn't have the courage or ethics to do.
That's real hate. A "boo" can't compare to the hatchet job she tried to do on his record.
larkrake
(1,674 posts)Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)liberal N proud
(60,334 posts)At that time you could write it off as posturing and election attitude, but it has become more evident that much of that crowd lacks respect for anyone who does not agree with them.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)acting poorly on national television. They embarrass themselves well enough without us getting involved.
There aren't enough haters to make a material difference.
RazBerryBeret
(3,075 posts)VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)And for the record, supporters don't dictate who I support-- though if they did, I think I'd be even more staunchly #NeverHillary than before.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Tough shit.
mcar
(42,307 posts)pinebox
(5,761 posts)More war?
More fracking?
More student loan debt?
More sending children migrants back home?
More private prisons?
More people thrown in jail for pot?
More dirty money deals for weapons?
More of turning countries into vacuums?
More people uninsured and dying from it?
What are you fighting for? Ask yourself.
People can't stand Hillary. Most of America hates her and sees her as a sell out and corporate America puppet who is insincere.
The cheers may be loud but everything is loud inside an echo chamber of 10 people. America is going to vote and sorry but I don't see the majority of America voting for someone who they've hated for decades.
That is reality.
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)ancianita
(36,053 posts)What a silly, shallow reaction for an OP.
Tired of you Hillers' obtuseness.
Lint Head
(15,064 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Apparently the Hillary crowd showed its admiration for Bernie and the Bernie showed its disdain for Hillary.
Such is politics.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)I am not with her.
demwing
(16,916 posts)Arrogance? Smugness? Poor judgement?
Stop me when I get there...
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)Worthless post. Find something useful to do.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)To us she embodies the problem.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)Respect for living things. Respect for humans. That's the more general.
One can respect a person without respecting her words, actions, candidacy, or politics.
And those people gathered to listen to Sanders weren't at DU. They didn't have to censor what they really think.
But please...continue to point out how awful we are. It will be so helpful for you after the convention.
JesterCS
(1,827 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)That doesn't make her the right choice or the wrong one; it simply highlights the challenges of the convention and the general election.
Who will she be working to win, and what policy can we use to help sell her message?
Rather than blaming haters, Trump-like, we need to be focused on constructive action.