This message was self-deleted by its author

[Equinox Moon]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Equinox Moon) on Wed Jun 8, 2016, 02:33 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[boston bean]

1. Bernie was not cheated out of anything.

[wyldwolf]

2. Sore losers, bitter and paranoid to the end. Primary Bernie! Al Giordano 4 Vermont Senate

[Hotler]

10. let the nastiness begin. Stay classy DU.

[wyldwolf]

17. begin?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-schmeltzer/yes-the-tone-of-the-sande_b_9601978.html

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/02/i-like-bernie-sanders-his-supporters-not-so-much-berniebro

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-rallies-dark-tone-218817

[LexVegas]

3. ...

[NurseJackie]

4. There would have been more voters. But the percentages would be about the same as they are now.

[Blue_Adept]

39. The majority of the voting for CA in particular is mail-in, so it had a negligible effect there.

[Adrahil]

5. We got another one over here.

I'll let you in on the conspiracy. Clinton was going to win the nomination last night regardless of what the AP did. She was already really close, and math is clearly in the tank for Clinton.

[Equinox Moon]

23. And, it would have felt different

for both Bernie and HRC camps if 'the win' had been fair. That was taken from all of us.

[Adrahil]

26. The win was perfectly fair.

For almost my entire adult life, I've voted in my primary after the primary was essentially decided. I still voted, even if I was voting for a candidate who could not win. That's the way our primary system works. It sucks, but it's nothing new.

[Equinox Moon]

30. Thank you for acknowledging "it sucks" the way it was done

I really appreciate that. I think it sucks for all of us, even the winner.

[Adrahil]

35. I advocate a complete overhaul of the primary system. NT

[mythology]

6. So your opinion isn't based on facts

There was no cheating and pretending there was is just silly.

[Equinox Moon]

15. The press called it BEFORE people voted

'the win' would have felt different if this was a clean primary. Even for the winner.

[stevenleser]

24. Not really, well over a million voted early in California alone, and that vote was pretty much the

Same as those who voted on Election Day in terms of preferences. Don't take my word for it, look it up.

[Barack_America]

7. All we Bernie supporters wanted was a fair chance in CA. "Secret win" robbed us of that...

So, no, we're not happy.

[Equinox Moon]

9. Indeed, this would have felt different if it had been fair

[onenote]

18. See post 13: Bernie's supporters failed him.

Sorry, but no one prevented anyone from going to the polls yesterday.
Bernie's message for persuading SDs to change their minds was dependent on showing how enthusiastic his support was and how the momentum was with him. His supporters could've shown up and at least given him a chance to make that case.

But they didn't.

[Sheepshank]

62. His supporters let him down the entire Primary season, not just Tuesady

The rally's just did not translate to votes.

[tonyt53]

52. You got a secret - a secret ballot. No caucus with 355 people showing up for an entire state.

[Lord Magus]

73. You had a fair chance. Nothing robbed you. -nt-

[Zynx]

8. It probably had no real effect. Everything turned out how demographics and polling indicated.

[Equinox Moon]

27. 'the win' would have felt different if it had been fair

[SFnomad]

56. No, it wouldn't have ... you would have come up with some other excuse why it wasn't "fair" n/t

[Hoyt]

59. Exactly.

[11 Bravo]

65. The win, even with the scare quotes, WAS fair.

Everything was done according to long-established rules; rules which applied equally to all contestants. In my dictionary, that's pretty much the definition of "fair".

[ecstatic]

11. Classy. Not. nt

[Agschmid]

12. Ugh.

[onenote]

13. what you are saying is that Bernie didn't quit, but his supporters did

There was absolutely no more or less reason for them to go the polls on Tuesday than there would have been without Monday night's announcement.

Bernie's strategy, announced for all the world to see, was to try to win big yesterday in order to reduce Clinton's pledged delegate majority and allow him to argue that his enthusiastic and large following, together with GE polls, made him the better candidate.

His supporters let him down, big time.

[Agschmid]

14. Kinda.

[justiceischeap]

33. And if the polls are anything to go by in the last few days

it would seem Clinton voters made that "extra" effort to vote in CA yesterday because their candidate told them too.

Though Clinton has never had the huge rallies Bernie has had, she had what really mattered--voters.

[Blue_Adept]

41. A large number of her voters also voted early via mail-in

and were not susceptible to the AP call, etc. I saw one number saying mail-in was 65/35 HRC/BS for its breakdown. Mail-in definitely has an advantage there in getting your vote in and feeling like it counts before anything happens.

[justiceischeap]

43. Shhh...the mail-in votes don't count.

They make the conspiracy boat leaky.

[Blue_Adept]

44. I know, I know

I don't play to others conspiracy theories. often it's just a lack of understanding the process itself.

[Lizzie Poppet]

47. His supporters didn't let him down, they were tricked by that last, epic ratfuck.

Washing my hands of the entire farce...

[oberliner]

50. They were tricked?

How were they tricked? Bernie supporters are not morons. They are capable of voting regardless of what call the AP makes.

[onenote]

58. That's a sad testament to the acumen and enthusiasm of Sanders' support

or at least a significant portion.

Even before the AP announcement, it had been widely reported that New Jersey would without doubt give Clinton more than 2383 in pledged delegates and super delegate commitments. Sanders knew it. Anyone paying attention knew it. But it didn't change Sanders' strategy, which was to try to do as well as possible in New Jersey (although he essentially admitted he couldn't win there) and sweep the other states and use those wins to build the argument that notwithstanding the inevitable fact that Clinton would, after Tuesday, have more than 2383 in pledged and SD support, his momentum coming out of a big day on Tuesday, combined with the enthusiasm of his supporters and GE polls, would allow him to persuade SDs to change their support.

But either his supporters didn't get the message (bad communications, bad GOTV?) or there were more fair-weather supporters and low information supporters than the Sanders team ever would admit.

The bottom line is that when Sanders needed his supporters the most, they weren't there for him.

[brooklynite]

16. If it makes you feel better...

...I'm sure you would have come up with ANOTHER way that Clinton "cheated" if the AP story had never run...

[themaguffin]

19. He lost, just like she did in 2008. Period. Next.

[Nonhlanhla]

20. That's always the argument when a woman wins

She must have slept her way to the top (indeed, that very accusation has been used against Hillary, suggesting that her only claim to the presidency is that she is married to Bill, ignoring her own achievements). Or she must be the product of affirmative action, with the hint that that amounts to cheating more worthy candidates out of the job. I see that attitude among some white male colleagues who resent diversity efforts. Same with the right wing rhetoric against Obama: "the affirmative action president." Ignoring his own stellar achievements, suggesting he does not deserve his success.

Fact is that Hillary won, fair and square. If anything, Bernie was benefiting from less democratic caucuses throughout this process.

And Hillary did not want AP to jump the gun on Monday night. There was no cheating involved on her part.

[uponit7771]

31. The establishment usually has a hard time recognizing the "others" accomplishments

[auntpurl]

64. Group differentiation

it's a psychological phenomenon where members of a group define their own superiority by their ascendancy over another subgroup.

[uponit7771]

74. thx for this info, sounds like there's some science behind the behavior

[auntpurl]

77. You could literally do a PhD thesis on DU and group behaviour

It is a rich source of data.

[Jack Bone]

21. break the glass ceiling...

with a stolen brick....

sad...really sad

[PeaceNikki]

22. .

[Tarc]

25. 8 days

[Darb]

28. HURRRRRRY!!! Pass out the tin-foil!

Bernie has been behind all along.

[seabeyond]

29. This is one of the reason you lost so bad and you still don't get it. False accusations, whining,

Blaming everyone else, attacking, not following rule, making excuses. The nation has had enough with the chip on shoulders. Sanders entitlement to our vote.

[DrDan]

32. no way - votes were counted, SDs verified - lets get beyond the whining

[book_worm]

34. The press stating the obvious

that she is the presumptive nominee and Sanders voters won't turn out? Sanders problem is that he put too much emphasize on his massive rallies which are fun for those who attend but doesn't compare to a good GOTV organization which Hillary has. The fact that she won South Dakota where thousands of people voted compared to a caucus in neighboring North Dakota in which (apparently) only hundreds participated is another problem. Bernie could get the activists to turn out at caucuses but not the masses in most primaries.

[NCTraveler]

36. Sanders would have lost by more had they not announced.

They really hurt her yet she still sealed the deal in epic fashion.

The media stating the painfully obvious didn't hurt Sanders.

[randome]

37. If you had an ounce of self-reflection, you'd realize you were wrong.

Many here said that Sanders essentially lost back in March and they've been shown to be right. You were wrong.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[RandySF]

38. Oh FFS

Sometimes the reason you don't win is because you just come up short.

[MohRokTah]

40. BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

[mercuryblues]

42. this

shtick is getting old. Can't you berners come up with a new reason on why Bernie lost?

Here are several to choose from: #5 has been over used.

1. Stockholm syndrome
2. the South is too stupid to know who to vote for
3. Not enough poor people vote
4. only registered Democrats allowed to vote
5. stole the election
6. Voter only voted for Clinton because she won

[brooklynite]

61. You left out "the corporate media wouldn't let him get his message out"

Also, "the polls were biased"

Also, "All the Superdelegates endorsed her before he even got into the race"

[leftynyc]

45. Yawn

There was no cheating. It's just as likely that Hillary voters stayed home due to her clinching the day before. If Bernie wasn't able to get his supporters out to vote yesterday, that's his and their problem. I always knew you couldn't depend on the millenials to get off their asses to vote diligently.

[LaydeeBug]

46. It was over April 26th, and the math shows it. nt

[NurseJackie]

48. Posts like this make it difficult to not be a "sore winner". For all those who criticize Hillary's…

... supporters and call us "sore winners" ... please take note of this post (and many others, both here and in the BSGroup) that continue to smear Hillary and insult her supporters.

It doesn't mean I won't try to be gracious, but it does mean that some of you are making it difficult to give you what you want.

[geek tragedy]

49. Sore losers are losers nt

[gordianot]

54. I remember being told that in 2000 about sore losers.

I have since evolved and would never so much as pick up a chair and never ever yell.

[geek tragedy]

66. Except Gore won whereas Sanders got beat decisively. nt

[gordianot]

68. Not according to the Supreme Court Gore lost.

Don't be a sore loser.

[geek tragedy]

69. it was razor-thin and he probably did win if the votes were accurately counted

in addition, he won the popular vote.

he had a moral claim to the win


Sanders doesn't

[gordianot]

70. Agreed

As to how political parties conduct themselves was correctly not addressed in the Constitution even though Primary elections are funded by public funds. That seems to be a conversation people are not ready to consider.

[wildeyed]

51. It's a math thing.

Once you get past a certain point, there are not enough potential voters to make up the difference. Your post is the epic fail. Just because your guy lost doesn't mean the other candidate cheated.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[Mike Nelson]

53. Not 100% sure who cheated...

...but it increased excitement and turnout here in California. We loved having Hillary and Bernie campaign here... it increased turnout and went against the media narrative. I don't think Hillary liked the media calling her the presumptive nominee because she was expecting it to occur last night. I can't believe Bernie or Trump would have the power to disrupt her schedule, but it sure worked out well for us!

[artyteacher]

55. its been over since february. eom

[Uben]

57. If it's any consolation....

..this site was founded on similar feelings regarding the 2000 election. We took a negative and made it a positive! It's time to blow this one off and do what we can to affect the future as a whole. There's another election every four years, and you'll have an opportunity then. In the 15 yrs I 've been here, this is the first presidential election that the candidate I wanted to win actually won.
Did I have sour grapes? Oh hell yeah! But, once reality sets in, you pick your self up and keep going.

Good luck, and I hope you will continue to support the struggle against the republican machine. They are ruthless, and anything with a D beside their name is a better alternative.

[The Polack MSgt]

60. Jury results - For Transparency

On Wed Jun 8, 2016, 08:21 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Too bad 'the win' was by way of cheating
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512156375

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

False accusation. No cheating was involved.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Jun 8, 2016, 08:33 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: The poster is angry because they don't understand the Democratic Party's primary system? No excuse to accuse Clinton of cheating.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not abusive or over the top. Same complaint was voiced repeatedly all primary season. So it isn't a hide worthy post until next week
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Just because you don't agree doesn't mean you can hide a post. Stick to the Hillary Clinton group if different opinions bother you so much!
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Poster is a bit delusional, and certainly a sore loser, but last I checked, those were not against TOS. The normal responses to this post is a better refutation of it than hiding it would be.

[Logical]

63. Time to stop this and move to trump. Nt

[bhikkhu]

67. That's the way the primaries work

Its fairly common for a candidate to have the win, mathematically speaking, in the bag, with many states yet to vote. Having watched many primaries that's just how it is. Demanding media silence about it has never worked,

[Waiting For Everyman]

71. Couldn't agree more.

The fact that this many people are fine with it is a measure of how corrupt the party has become under the Third Way. So she's a perfect fit. The rest of us, can only be disgusted. We do deserve better. And we are the future.

The only way she can win in the GE is by hyping the fear of Trump. And who advised this monster that everyone's so afraid of, to run? His good buddy Bill Clinton. See how perfect that is?

But it's insisted to us that all of these things "just happen". Well some of us didn't fall off a turnip truck yesterday.

We got through Nixon, and Reagan, and Bush x2, this too will pass. All I can say is, don't let your kids or grandkids who are of age go into the military.

http://www.gregpalast.com/california-stolen-sanders-right-nowspecial-bulletin-greg-palast/#more-12053

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512150240

[Lord Magus]

72. Is this your first primary?

This is how it always works. When a candidate has enough delegates to win, the media projects them as the winner. Even if there are a lot more than 6 states left that haven't voted. That's the nature of the primary system where states don't all vote at the same time. The later a state is on the calendar the bigger the chance there will already be a winner before they vote.

BTW the same thing can happen in the general election. If a candidate gets to 270 electoral votes early in the night, they will be called the winner even if the West Coast polls are still open.

[senz]

75. Criminals fear investigations for a reason.

There are currently investigations into not only Hillary's private server but also into the voting "irregularities" that have followed her odd "wins" throughout this campaign.

She has a lot of stuff to hide and may get caught one of these days.

[Beacool]

76. No, it wasn't rigged and no, he wasn't cheated out of the nomination.

Sanders actually did much better than expected and his message resonated with a lot of people.

The nominating process has been in place for years and it was the same process that helped elect Obama. The truth may hurt, but the fact is that millions of people chose Hillary over Sanders.

[intheozone]

78. You need to stop this shit, get a grip and

realize you are deluding yourself. Bernie lost fair and square, nothing was stolen from him and your saying it and writing it will not make it so. Grow up, stop spreading shit and making excuses.

[chillfactor]

79. It seems to me that you are a sorry excuse for a loser...

according to you bernie supporters every primary election in every state was rigged. And while I was against the AP releasing their statement,but it had a negligible effect on the outcome yesterday. If anything, it brought out more voters.

I will be very happy when Skinner's new policy goes into effect next week....garbage like your post will not be tolerated....thank goodness!

[rjsquirrel]

80. No it wasn't

And it's time to stop saying so.