2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumNPR: California results confirm that minorities are supporting Hillary over Bernie in large numbers
California's Geographic Sanders-Clinton Divide Suggests Ethnic, Rural-Urban Split
By DANIELLE KURTZLEBEN
Hillary Clinton trounced Bernie Sanders in California's Democratic primary on Tuesday. She defeated the independent senator from Vermont by nearly 13 points — 55.8 to 43.2 percent — with 100 percent of the precincts reporting.
<...>
One is that throughout the primary period, Sanders has performed well among white voters. Clinton, meanwhile, has tended to perform better among African-Americans and Hispanics. And performing well among minority groups is a boost in California, where Hispanics are the largest ethnic group, making up nearly 39 percent of the state.
While exit polls have shown some states' Hispanic voters favoring Sanders, as FiveThirtyEight wrote this week, Clinton victories have tended to be large in some of the nation's most heavily Hispanic districts.
<...>
Of course, the state also has significant black and Asian-American populations. It appears that in some counties, minority voters helped push Clinton's vote total up, while white voters bolstered Sanders' totals in many places. Indeed, the five counties where Clinton got her lowest share of the vote are more than two-thirds non-Hispanic white.
Read more:
http://www.npr.org/2016/06/08/481244008/californias-geographic-sanders-clinton-divide-suggests-ethnic-rural-urban-split
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)
Ken Burch This message was self-deleted by its author.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)with a key part of the Democratic base, actually.
If you were just celebrating Hillary, you wouldn't be mentioning Bernie.
Keep it up, Hillary people. Keep mentioning how Bernie was "trounced". Then mention how important party unity is. Then wonder why so many Bernie supporters chose another direction in November.
chillfactor
(7,694 posts)the "another direction" is trump.....you prefer trump to Hillary? You are no Democrat...probably a troll.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and was not written to insult Bernie or those of us who voted for him.
These results are actually just what we were expecting from California, anyway, reflecting the popularity of Hillary with minority groups that's already been demonstrated in state after state.
This is good, Shemp. Our nominee should ideally always have wide support from all groups of Democrats, and this year our nominee does. We're doing good.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)If her support there had been totally based on this so-called "relationship", that would be one thing. But her surrogates never left it at that. They race-baited Bernie endlessly, mercilessly. They even kept spreading the lie that he moved to Vermont to get away from black people(as if there was no other reason someone would relocate to a beautiful state like that).
I hope HRC delivers for the AA and Latino communities. She owes them big time.
If not, we who worked for Bernie(including the growing number of POC who joined in supporting him as the campaign as the months went by)will be marching with those communities in solidarity and in protest. Because we will stand, as we have always stood, with everyone who is being treated badly in this society...the victims of hate just as much as the victims of greed(and especially the many who are victims of both).
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)One of the major differences between Obama '08 and Hillary '16
is Hillary's campaigns using race as a divisive device and Obama's campaign of racial inclusiveness
Obama's effectiveness is shown here more whites voted for Barack Obama '08 than for Bill Clinton in '92
http://ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-elections/how-groups-voted/how-groups-voted-1992/
http://ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-elections/presidential-elections/2008-presidential-election/
yet Hillary's campaign has made white males particularly young white males and their female counter parts out to be the bad guys the spoilers not real Democrats ect, one must wonder is this healthy for the The Party and what does it say about the The Parties future?
peace13
(11,076 posts)Obama rallies, inauguration on the Mall....there was true joy to being all together. People of all colors working and celebrating together. Between the lies about Bernie, and Trump on the scene, the racist bigots are wound tighter than ever. These Conventions will be two good excuses to beat the people on the street and start the whole ugly cycle again.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)50 years ago we were the party of the civil rights bill, war on poverty, and great society - IMO the real reason and central question was and is-just what is the Democratic now, who does it support and represent without compromise or reservation?
peace13
(11,076 posts)Hate stirring division...that's what I think.
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)There is nothing wrong with discussing it.
Response to KingFlorez (Reply #19)
Ken Burch This message was self-deleted by its author.
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)No one smeared Sanders, he merely was not the candidate of choice of minorities and that is all there is to it.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)brush
(61,033 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)If it had, Bernie wouldn't have been campaigning all over the South. He was there for weeks.
Why would you even think he didn't try to get black support?
He tried...the campaign tried...it's just that HRC had the leadership lined up before he got in.
But he and his campaign did make a concerted effort.
It's probably that it just never occurred to Bernie and his advisors that he would ever be subject to relentless attack about this.
Given his record, there was no reason for him to expect to be put on the defensive to the degree he was on that.
And there was no reason for him to expect that the southern AA leadership would apparently decide that his presence in the race was somehow a threat to the best interests of the black community.
Why SHOULD he have expected that treatment?
brush
(61,033 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)but like a lot of weaver's bullshit, it was bullshit. He was just trying to justify his pathetic losses in the south.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-campaign_us_56f98f5ae4b0a372181aa375
brush
(61,033 posts)I knew Sanders campaigned in some of the southern states, yet there was Weaver's claim, and Sanders' own comment that the southern results "skewed reality", or something to that effect, which may have revealed, unintentionally of course, his views on race — which goes back to the economic equality v racial equality arguments early during the campaign.
Sanders and his campaign seemed to view racial equality would be a by-product of achieving economic equality. Many of us disagreed, feeling that they were two phenomenons, distinct yet interwoven in our complex society, that required attention and different approaches to handle and solve.
Then there was the "Politico" article saying that all decisions came from the top, meaning Sanders himself, which would imply that Sanders made the decision not to compete whole heartedly in the south, as the black vote "skewed reality".
I kind of lean towards your opinion that it was bs that they didn't compete, they just didn't do well. I mean, most of his top people were from Vermont. How much experience and familiarity could they have gained with AAs in Vermont, a nearly all-white state?
Number23
(24,544 posts)discussing race issues that were one of the many, MANY reasons that Sanders did so horribly with minority communities?
A black poster isn't even allowed to DISCUSS how minority communities voted without Sanders supporters racing in to scream about how "divisive" this is. It's not divisive. It's reality. And covering your ears and pretending that it's such a horrible subject and that no one should discuss it won't make it any less so, particularly as I have no doubt that if Sanders had won the minority vote anywhere we'd be hearing about that all day.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)to keep bringing this up when his campaign is for all practical purposes over.
And Bernie took many many steps throughout his campaign to reach out to AA voters, so it's unfair that some acted as if nothing changed with him on this for the entire campaign. He did listen and he did reach out.
If Bernie had been elected, he would have been just as committed as president to fighting racism as HRC...MORE so, in fact, because he had never been part of building anything like the DLC, an organization that was created almost entirely to push POC back to the back of the bus in the Democratic Party.
Whatever you can say about Bernie, there is nothing in his record that comes anywhere close to that kind of betrayal.
Could he have been better at saying "I Need your support"? Obviously.
But the weakness was in the presentation, not in his actual record of proposals.
And if he had dumped Cornel West, the same people who bashed him over Dr. West's presence in the campaign would have said "Bernie throws prominent AA intellectual under the bus".
I don't fear talking about it, it's just that there's no reason to keep bringing this up now that the contest is over.
Number23
(24,544 posts)whine kick and scream that your guy got his assed whipped with minorities and then scream for us to shut up when we discuss how things could have been different.
If you don't like the discussions, YOU don't have to read them. And God knows you sure don't have to participate.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Bernie never refused to campaign in the south. He never refused to try to appeal to black voters. He never treated black voters as if they didn't matter. He met repeatedly with BLM. He added a strong antiracism program to his website.
And he talked a lot about racism on the stump. If he didn't talk about it in pure isolation, it's because racism isn't an issue you CAN deal with in pure isolation. There's no way to reduce it without also making major economic changes, as Dr. King, Malcolm X and Angela Davis pointed out in the Sixties(Note-nobody who said that every implied that Bernie was the equivalent to those three...just that they came to the same conclusion on this).
If he had kicked out Cornel West, NO AA people would have joined the campaign to replace him-they'd have all said repudiating Dr. West meant POC weren't welcome in the Sanders campaign at all. No AA voters would have swung to him over it.
Yes, we could have found better strategies...I've been one of the people arguing that from the start.
But it was mistakes of omission rather than mistakes based refusing to treat black voters as an important group. No one running for the Democratic presidential nomination would ever treat black voters as if they weren't crucial to success.
Mainly I'm saying is...why keep ATTACKING Bernie and trying to delegitimize his campaign over this, when he's essentially out of the race? Can't we move on to discussion instead of condemnation?
Those who were in the Sanders campaign this year already know that we need to work on this problem for the next time we try to get an actual progressive nominated.
It's just that having Bernie pull out early when he was having problems gaining AA votes wouldn't have achieved anything. It wouldn't have benefited the AA community and it wouldn't have been a victory for any of the causes we join you in supporting.
Those of us who have worked for Bernie would be glad to have a continuing dialog on race(we've been trying to the whole campaign)but there is no further reason to direct anger about it towards a campaign that is basically done with. That's all I'm saying.
Number23
(24,544 posts)doing alot better off. I'm done trying to explain any thing to you because it is clear you refuse to listen.
Black people and Hispanics and women will CONTINUE to discuss Bernie's failures with us as constituents as much as we'd like and for as long as we decide to do so. If you don't like those discussions and feel that they are nothing more than "attacks" on your precious candidate instead of discussions of his MYRIAD shortcomings that could potentially help the next candidate down the road, then you DON'T HAVE TO READ THEM.
Response to Number23 (Reply #48)
Ken Burch This message was self-deleted by its author.
Number23
(24,544 posts)so damned difficult for you to understand??
NO ONE was angry until you raced into this thread to demand that everyone stop talking about this issue. You have no right and certainly no business DEMANDING that people stop discussing anything! Why is it that you can't see that??
If the discussions bother you so much you DON'T HAVE TO READ THEM. There are segments of this web site where topics like this are never discussed and if they are, it's only to talk about how mean and terrible and awful black people are not for "educating" ourselves about Sanders. I think you can even count on one hand the number of black posters that even bother going in these groups (and the minuscule handful that do are the first ones nodding vigorously and even joining in about how "ignorant" black people are and our "slave mentalities"
so you won't even have to worry about being interrupted.
For the LAST TIME, if you don't like the discussions YOU DO NOT HAVE TO READ THEM.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)and said "yes".
yeah Bernie, you'll have better race relations than the black guy.
such incredible disrespect.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)But wouldn't ANY Democrat argue that race relations will get better when she or he becomes president than they are at the moment, whoever happened to be in the job at the moment?
Was he supposed to say they'd get worse?
What answer could he have given that you would have found acceptable?
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)he also didn't mention discrimination once in his answer.
but he's gonna improve race relations, do a better job than the black guy is doing now.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/democratic-debate-milwaukee-2016/2016/02/bernie-sanders-vows-to-improve-race-relations-219176
Cha
(320,481 posts)still keep it up.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Honestly when people try and sweep it under the rug and tell people to stop discussing it, it just makes it worse. It seems like there is a lesson there people are refusing to learn.
Response to bettyellen (Reply #61)
Ken Burch This message was self-deleted by its author.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Paragraphs that basically prove you do have huge issues both listening and treating other people concerns seriously. Better you keep your mouth shut and move along yourself instead of ordering others to.
You're not doing anyone favors here with this attitude. Spare us.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Or why the discussion of this still has to be in the tone of a call-out.
Sanders supporters made mistakes, but we aren't the enemies of the antiracist cause. We do want to learn.
But this is a tragic moment.
We just lost a major chance to change the country, to truly make life better. Now the election will just be about slight variants in the status quo. No result in the fall can liberate anyone, transform anything, or give anyone but millionaires anything to celebrate. It's a lot to absorb that most of the meaning in this election and most of the reason to hope for anything is gone, and may never come back.
And in that context, it is hurtful and maddening that campaign attack lines are still being used here.
I'll try to be better, but please be conscious that a lot of dreams just died and it's not clear that anyone but the 1% benefited from that.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)He lost among POC...we all know that. It no longer matters.
That doesn't mean he shouldn't ever have run, or that he was harming the interests of POC by being in the race.
And it doesn't mean he didn't try to get POC support or offered POC nothing.
In the name of unity, please let this go already.
uponit7771
(93,532 posts)Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)All I've ever pointed out was Sanders had a nonexistent strategy to capture minority votes, and when he finally did start in January, it was a day late and a dollar short...
It also didn't help that some of the more vocal, nutty Sanders supporters early on were saying they didn't even *need* minority votes to win...
texstad79
(115 posts)It confirms what we have known for a while now.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Yeah, everyone knew that would work.
Why are you guys still trying to delegitmize Bernie's candidacy? Isn't it enough that your candidate's going to be nominated?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)An admitted anti racist took it upon himself to use as a surrogate a man who called President Obama every type of highly racialized slur- Cornel West. That was his fault. He decided to do that. An antiracist would not ever consider using a person who had denegrated the first black president by calling him 'niggerized'. It does NOT matter if the offender was black!!! It was his job to not use people who had spent so much time attacking the first black prez. It was highly insensitive and every damn step of the way he was informed by us that we did not appreciate it.
It does not matter what Michelle Alexander thought or Killer Mike, or BLM for that matter. The optics were bad and not once did he ever think it was important enough to make sure he was not offending us.
It wasn't people trying to diminish his record, it was the fact that he did not measure up to our standards, in OUR view as black people. It does not matter if you think his record was good enough or that he was this wonderful antiracist. It matters what we think, us, black people, and it was obvious to all of us the entire time that his understanding of race in america today was shallow, old school and lacks the time taken to continue the effort of connecting with us. He never connected with us because he was not talking to us or with us. He was talking to you. What you are satisfied with on race is worlds apart from what interests us and what we require.
You need to stop blaming the world for Bernie's failures with black people and place the burden where it belongs. On him. He failed to connect. Next candidate needs to connect with us early and often, not leave us for the last minute and think that work from 47 years ago is enough to satisfy the requirements. It was not and never will be. His staff showed us who he hires, white men. Cant hire us, cant connect with us, cant speak with us, cant get our votes. One hundred percent his own damn fault.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)What I'm saying is, this race is basically over, so why even still start threads like this?
It's not as though Bernie betrayed POC by running. Nothing would be better for the antiracist cause if HRC had been acclaimed right after New Hampshire.
I agree that the next progressive candidate needs to connect better with POC.
And I'll say this:
HRC owes POC big time. She has an obligation to come through for you big time. Knowing her record, I'd fully expect her not to.
When that time comes, Sanders supporters(the growing numbers of POC who did back Bernie in the lead)will join your communities in organizing and protest and resistance).
We have always stood with the victims of hatred just as much as with the victims of greed(and especially with the many who are victims of both).
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Cornel spewed hate words that make us feel sick inside. It hurts us psychologically to have a black mans spew hate words against a black man in front of a white crowd. It takes us back to the plantation and jim crow when we were forced to shuck and jive and put on a show for white folks and denigrate each other for their entertainment. If black folks know one thing better than most, it is our own history of trials and tribulations here in America.
It was not about him running. It was about his view being incompatible with ours. His is a colorblind, lets help everybody, type view. We know our very blackness precludes us from being a part of that 'everybody'. It has always been this way and nothing he said convinced us that he would take the fact that america is not and never has been and never will be colorblind.
And the constant lectures about how this white dude is our best friend is something we AUTOMATICALLY resist. Everybody that says that is ready to knife us in the back.
You guys think you are standing with us while we think you are fighting against us. We are not convinced that his side has our best interest at heart. Look at how theySCREAM race baiter every time we bring up race. You all gotta check each other better. He expected us to ignore the obvious racial ignorance of himself and his base/supporters. That is how we knew he was not on our side. He was supposed to stand with us, not tell us to ignore it. He failed. His base failed. Time to try again and actually listen to what we say turned us off, stop trying to convince us we are wrong to see the world through the lens of our own experience. It minimizes our experience and shows that we are just being used for votes. Hillary will apologize for offending. Bernie will double down and tell us we are simply not smart enough and will get it once we are educated. So damn paternalistic I could spit fire. He himself lost my vote by not speaking out in defense of blacks and John Lewis especially.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And he never said that race didn't matter. When he talked about people not voting their color, he was pushing for working-class white people to look past white supremacy...NOT telling POC that they shouldn't mention race.
It's just that he wanted to build an alliance with working-class whites for economic justice for all as well.
Making that alliance happen doesn't mean denying the reality of racism...it means acknowledging that greed does damage too(not the same damage)and that there are places where common ground can be made between working-class folks(most people ARE working-class or poor)of all races.
Is trying to do that a bad thing?
If we can at some point create that alliance, we can end backlash politics and build a permanent majority for a hatred-free, poverty-free future.
If we don't, if we take the position that we can't address greed and class UNTIL all forms of institutional bigotry are totally eradicated(as opposed to continually working against both), we will never get to addressing greed and class at all, and that means we will never actually end institutional OR grassroots bigotry. The things that keep bigotry going(it is never hate for hate's sake-it has to be manipulated and nourished by the powerful to be kept alive or it would die out on its own) are want and fear of falling into want.
We are all with you on the need to fight racism. We have been the whole time.
In any case, since the person you wanted all along has been nominated, what is the point of continuing to use this as an argument against Bernie? Bernie won't be the nominee. Isn't that enough?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Because people are making up false reasons why. Working class white are the reason us blacks vote democratic. They care about their own place above us in the social strata over working with us on the economy. Pretending that racism is not part of why they vote republican is creating a false narrative and is why were repelled. I do not ever want to see a campain on the left fail so spectacularly in the future. One day white liberals will stop telling blacks how we should feel about things and how we should see the world.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Unfortunately, the Sanders campaign has so promoted and winked at a "rigged election" narrative that some will believe Clinton colluded with the AP to suppress Sanders winning turnout to the tune of 14 percentage points and 450,000 votes (an idea they strangely believe accrues to Sanders' benefit, though it would make his support not an inch deep, but a millimeter deep if it were true!).
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)That doesn't mean Bernie's campaign was bigoted, or illegitimate, or that he didn't deserve the support of POC.
It didn't mean we weren't just as committed to fighting racism, sexism, and homphobia as HRC.
We were and we are.
Just let this one go now.
There's no reason to keep banging on about it.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Sure you posted in the right place?
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)There is no reason to keep hitting this particular theme. Yes, HRC carried POC, but that doesn't mean Bernie wasn't trying for them or didn't offer them anything.
And the way this keeps getting framed implies that Bernie didn't WANT POC support.
He wanted POC support just as much as HRC did, and he tried as hard as she did once he was in the race(he only ran because Warren didn't and there would have been no progressive candidates in the race if he had stayed out).
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Seems you're the one banging on about something.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)stories about the Seattle incident with BLM protestors that grew more and more outrageous as time went on, yet when Hillary had BLM members at one of her rallies stopped by Secret Service and then dismissed them at a meeting with them "I might as well talk to only white people" we barely heard a peep from the M$M- it was swept under the rug immediately
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Last edited Thu Jun 9, 2016, 01:18 AM - Edit history (1)
And the "I don't remember him" thing from John Lewis.
There was a concerted effort to demonize Bernie among POC voters, and there was really no reason for it.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)
LexVegas
(6,962 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)It was clear he was going to lose on Super Tuesday, that's why resources were switched to other states towards the end...was he supposed to expend more effort on lost battles?
HRC got those votes, but she didn't actually offer anything more for POC than Bernie did.
Bernie's proposals were never "white things". They were and are for the good of all.
And all of them would have benefited the majority of POC who are working class more than anybody else.
peace13
(11,076 posts)It was repeated over and over until the lie could run on its own. Why would a man go to Selma to fight for Civil Rights if he was a self centered white pig? If you don't care about people you don't make a stand that could end your life or stop your career. This is a Swiftboat operation plain and simple. No different than what was done to Kerry!
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)What's the point?
Do they WANT HRC to get elected in the fall or not?
peace13
(11,076 posts)...when they think Skinner will deep six all of us. They have the same problem that Hillary does. They provoke to become the victim. It is a sad situation.
uponit7771
(93,532 posts)... votes in the "southern states"
that's his fault and not Clintons
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And all that Weaver and Devine(two people I don't particularly like, btw)are talking about there was that, towards the end of Super Tuesday campaigning, when it was clear that the "Bernie doesn't care" smear had worked, they redirected resources elsewhere.
Bernie did try to get black votes.
There will be plenty of critiques made of the Sanders campaign over this problem in the months and weeks to come,
but he's basically out of the race now, so why are you STILL attacking the guy?
Isn't it enough that you got the candidate you always, for some reason, preferred?
uponit7771
(93,532 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)SC was considered the big prize of the evening.
HRC put more effort into SC than she did anywhere else, too.
I agree that Bernie could have put together a more effective strategy, the strong criminal justice reform and antiracist proposals he did come out with should have been there from the start, but his campaign is basically over now.
Given that it is, why are you still in attack mode?
Bernie is done...it doesn't matter whether he gets out before D.C. or not.
uponit7771
(93,532 posts)... should've been way bigger and the money spent there shows it wasn't.
SC wasn't the only state, it showed he got beat bad there and he stopped competing for them.
I wanna teach the world to sing
uponit7771
(93,532 posts)
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... to be congratulated on their success. She will be an excellent President, and I'm looking forward to continued greatness.
DemocratSinceBirth
(101,996 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)The race is over.
peace13
(11,076 posts)I hope they realize that the road to single payer is gone. On the up side we will be using more troops so their children may find jobs. Probably not looking too rosy on education though. Jobs continuing to disappear and pay rates dropping will certainly be a surprise. When Bill takes up his commerce position all bets are off. My best to these people. We are all going to need help. I seriously do not understand this. I never heard Bernie say single payer for white folks. Or 'free' college for white kids only. Justice for white people only. When I hear Bernie Sander's speak I hear a better world for all Americans. Go figure.
qdouble
(891 posts)if Bernie's revolution is real, it will push to get progressive policies through the legislature unless for some crazed reason you think Hillary would veto.
peace13
(11,076 posts)Crazed....is a word. Hillary campaigned against theses things and then changed her words to just less then Bernie in order to dupe people. My point is valid that the minorities voted for the person who was not for them. We all are going down because of that. I wish you well.
qdouble
(891 posts)
DCBob
(24,689 posts)
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)yardwork
(69,612 posts)Incredibly racist emails I received in real life - including attacks on my Latina wife - show otherwise.
And the continued effort to shut down the voices of POC here on DU show otherwise.
As a white girl, I learned long ago that you can't go into a community organizing meeting and start out by telling everybody else in the room what they think and what they're allowed to say.
Cha
(320,481 posts)
Starry Messenger
(32,382 posts)
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)Cha
(320,481 posts)endorsements she got from minority groups?
I want to Thank them all! And, Thank you, Cali, for voting for Hillary in California!
[font size=lg][font color=blue]THANK YOU, CALIFORNIA![/font][/font]
apcalc
(4,528 posts)Understand discrimination . It permeates all economic groups. Hillary understands it big time.