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If you are independent, why do you want to vote in a party's primary. (Original Post) Yavin4 Jun 2016 OP
Because the Democratic party in California allows me to and I want to effect change from within JonLeibowitz Jun 2016 #1
I'm a Democrat who wants Independents to vote in a party primary. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2016 #2
Actually, the party is choosing a nominee. I know that Bernie supporters are ... NurseJackie Jun 2016 #7
If that is the case, then party only politics is very undemocratic because it NorthCarolina Jun 2016 #3
Everyone is welcome to become a Democrat. Lord Magus Jun 2016 #12
You would think so, but as we have learned the logical point fails in a very corrupt system 2banon Jun 2016 #15
It's your logic point that fails One of the 99 Jun 2016 #60
huh? 2banon Jun 2016 #70
So then you refute your previous comment. One of the 99 Jun 2016 #83
That is the number 1 take away from this year's Dem Primary. JimDandy Jun 2016 #62
It's not "corruption" for more people to vote for the other candidate. Lord Magus Jun 2016 #93
No one was talking about votes. But you knew that. It's dishonest to and disingenuous to restate JimDandy Jun 2016 #94
No one at the national level Bettie Jun 2016 #92
It's not undemocratic. Yavin4 Jun 2016 #21
Exactly. Duval Jun 2016 #25
Not even a little bit. Squinch Jun 2016 #55
It is obvious, to choose the best candidate in that voter's mind, but the primaries should be closed braddy Jun 2016 #4
Of course you probably do not know this nadinbrzezinski Jun 2016 #5
Absolutely! If you want to have a closed, partisan primary... Raster Jun 2016 #36
"your precious party" zappaman Jun 2016 #98
Simple. Because the candidate of one or the other party will be our next President. hedda_foil Jun 2016 #6
I'm not a member of the Teacher's Union frazzled Jun 2016 #10
Then probably you ought to join a party. Adrahil Jun 2016 #42
The party should not select ONE candidate and back them, when other candidates are running. -none Jun 2016 #48
"supposed?" Adrahil Jun 2016 #50
The voters did decide who won. What you are describing as what you want is exactly what happened. Squinch Jun 2016 #57
You missed my point about the party being impartial and treating each Dem candidate fairly. -none Jun 2016 #63
I completely disagree, but I don't care to re-fight that fight. Squinch Jun 2016 #65
As you wish. -none Jun 2016 #66
No, that is not the case. but if you need to have the last word, have at it. Squinch Jun 2016 #69
the party leaders have their own agenda. larkrake Jun 2016 #79
I don't want the party to think they get any promises from me. NCTraveler Jun 2016 #8
Because you still care about who becomes president democrattotheend Jun 2016 #9
Joining a party does not preclude you from voting for people from the other party if that is Squinch Jun 2016 #61
Most of them are not really Republicans democrattotheend Jun 2016 #68
I originally registered in New York as an Independent. It was not a big deal to Squinch Jun 2016 #72
Libertarians are simply Republicans who WhiteTara Jun 2016 #77
Funny you should say that democrattotheend Jun 2016 #82
Glad he is finally catching on. Only the last 3 cycles? WhiteTara Jun 2016 #84
He has been active in the LP since he was a little kid democrattotheend Jun 2016 #85
to let the party know what direction to move if they want me alc Jun 2016 #11
+1 Go Vols Jun 2016 #35
Because I want to have a say in every election that affects me bigwillq Jun 2016 #13
Why do you come catering us to in a GE if we can't vote in your primaries? pinebox Jun 2016 #14
Bless you pinebox, I dig! 2banon Jun 2016 #16
Seriously, don't come calling to us to support your candidate if we can't help pick them pinebox Jun 2016 #17
no arguement from me! 2banon Jun 2016 #20
There are benefits to being a part of an organization Yavin4 Jun 2016 #23
I live in Massachusetts. We have an open primary. R. Daneel Olivaw Jun 2016 #30
What's best for a political party jamese777 Jun 2016 #18
Primaries are accessible for all. Caucuses suppress the vote. Garrett78 Jun 2016 #41
I agree, caucuses suppress the vote, i have always thought this, there are working people, seniors Thinkingabout Jun 2016 #64
I was just about to reply with what you just posted. Starry Messenger Jun 2016 #19
In 2012 jamese777 Jun 2016 #22
Because I can KK9 Jun 2016 #24
In states with open primaries, it is nice to have the flexibility... thesquanderer Jun 2016 #26
I'm sure flexibility is nice and all.... Adrahil Jun 2016 #43
To influence the outcome. That's why anyone votes. Orsino Jun 2016 #27
The same reason anybody votes. immoderate Jun 2016 #28
Why do you seemingly represent the exclusionary past? R. Daneel Olivaw Jun 2016 #29
Nobody is forcing anybody to not be able to vote in a primary. Indies chose to be indies tonyt53 Jun 2016 #31
With that kind of backward thinking I wouldn't expect indies R. Daneel Olivaw Jun 2016 #33
Because the candidate you prefer is running in that party -simple as that azurnoir Jun 2016 #32
Some just don't get the obvious. They expect loyalty while telling us to eat cake. R. Daneel Olivaw Jun 2016 #34
greetings and yep seems simple enough to me azurnoir Jun 2016 #54
So, you think that the entire purpose of a political party is find candidates that you like Yavin4 Jun 2016 #37
Due to people like you, you can guarantee nadinbrzezinski Jun 2016 #38
If the candidate anyone prefers is running in any party I'd think anyone would want to see azurnoir Jun 2016 #53
Most independents are party loyalists. Garrett78 Jun 2016 #39
It's not like a dog taking wing, it's just a choice of Party. We have a closed primary. What does Bluenorthwest Jun 2016 #40
2-3 weeks bonemachine Jun 2016 #89
I am an independent and live in Florida - hence cannot vote in the primary DrDan Jun 2016 #44
They don't want to vote for a Democrat rock Jun 2016 #45
Bernie ran as a Democrat. -none Jun 2016 #52
He clearly does not care about the Democrats rock Jun 2016 #73
Then why did he do as well as he did despite the best efforts of the DNC to sideline him? -none Jun 2016 #74
Weren't most of his supporters rock Jun 2016 #75
Not this Liberal Democrat. -none Jun 2016 #78
Rhetoric like yours is insulting to the Democratic States that voted for him in great numbers Bluenorthwest Jun 2016 #88
In the sense that true Democrats were taken in by his con rock Jun 2016 #91
Maybe because you like a candidate? Armstead Jun 2016 #46
Couple of Reasons for Me Personally SDJay Jun 2016 #47
Because typically only the Republican and Democratic nominees have a viable chance of being elected Time for change Jun 2016 #49
Blue ribbon for most ridiculous post ever. peace13 Jun 2016 #51
I've never registered to a party Dem2 Jun 2016 #56
To me it's more like we want to support the union but they don't want our support azurnoir Jun 2016 #58
in an attempt to assure there is a candidate worth supporting in the GE Ferd Berfel Jun 2016 #59
I'm an Independent, have been all my life, and I have never wanted to vote in a primary. Native Jun 2016 #67
The only reason I remain a Democrat is to vote in the primary. Vinca Jun 2016 #71
Because the Parties get to decide my only choices. TransitJohn Jun 2016 #76
Lifelong democrat here. cliffordu Jun 2016 #80
In many states all voters are independents... longship Jun 2016 #81
It won't happen again. mmonk Jun 2016 #86
Good. nt Cali_Democrat Jun 2016 #87
Anyone 18 and over can vote for president of the United States AgingAmerican Jun 2016 #90
Same reason you vote in a general election AgingAmerican Jun 2016 #95
For some, it's because they think they know better than MineralMan Jun 2016 #96
Because there is actually a candidate who stands for what you believe in WolverineDG Jun 2016 #97
So you can support the candidate you like best. Octafish Jun 2016 #99

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
1. Because the Democratic party in California allows me to and I want to effect change from within
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 11:32 AM
Jun 2016

I suspect that describes a lot of us. A lot of us don't understand the reason people are so upset about the (D) when it only requires a simple form to change. The difficult thing to change in this nation is ideology, which Bernie Sanders has had some success in in this primary.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
2. I'm a Democrat who wants Independents to vote in a party primary.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 11:37 AM
Jun 2016

We aren't electing a party boss, we're electing a president.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
7. Actually, the party is choosing a nominee. I know that Bernie supporters are ...
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 12:03 PM
Jun 2016

... all about being "technical" (ie: "presumptive nominee has not actually been nominated until the convention", and all that) so I figured you'd have a good appreciation for being precise.

 

NorthCarolina

(11,197 posts)
3. If that is the case, then party only politics is very undemocratic because it
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 11:37 AM
Jun 2016

disenfranchises citizens from expressing their political will by voting.

Lord Magus

(1,999 posts)
12. Everyone is welcome to become a Democrat.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 12:55 PM
Jun 2016

Those who want to influence the party really should. Even in open primary states. I don't see what the benefit is for a progressive to not join the party. The more progressives who join, the more progressive the party becomes.

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
15. You would think so, but as we have learned the logical point fails in a very corrupt system
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 01:03 PM
Jun 2016

if only politicians were essentially honest, and actually represent the people of the party and not the Corporations who actually write our laws, and buy off our candidates. If only that were the case, but it ain't .

so that's why.

One of the 99

(2,280 posts)
60. It's your logic point that fails
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:58 PM
Jun 2016

The best way to effectively change a party is to do it from within, not by complaining from the sidelines.

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
70. huh?
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 05:27 PM
Jun 2016

That's exactly what we ARE doing. Within the party for the past year.

Try to catch up please, mmm k? .

SMFH.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
62. That is the number 1 take away from this year's Dem Primary.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:59 PM
Jun 2016

It has really opened progressives' eyes. My whole reason for supporting Bernie to run as a Dem was so that Progressive's could take back the party from the conservative wing that has had power over it for decades now.

After seeing the depth of the corruption within the party and the lengths that Party leaders went to to put their thumb on the scale, I decided to leave the Democratic Party and start over with thousands of other Progressives elsewhere. We've found each other. We're starting fresh. We have real hope now for the future and are invigorated about changes we will pursue for the benefit of all.

Lord Magus

(1,999 posts)
93. It's not "corruption" for more people to vote for the other candidate.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 12:29 PM
Jun 2016

It's democracy. Hillary Clinton was who the clear majority of Democratic primary voters wanted to be our nominee.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
94. No one was talking about votes. But you knew that. It's dishonest to and disingenuous to restate
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 03:07 PM
Jun 2016

using false wording the statement of someone else.

Bettie

(15,998 posts)
92. No one at the national level
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:55 AM
Jun 2016

As a Democrat in a small town in flyover country, I only matter to the national party for a few months once every four years and then, it is only a facade, they just want our votes, not to hear what we actually have to say.

The direction of the party is dictated by those with the money. Lobbyists and corporations with a smattering of really rich people set the agenda.

Yavin4

(35,357 posts)
21. It's not undemocratic.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 01:28 PM
Jun 2016

No one is preventing you from voting in general elections for whatever candidate you want.

 

braddy

(3,585 posts)
4. It is obvious, to choose the best candidate in that voter's mind, but the primaries should be closed
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 11:40 AM
Jun 2016
 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
5. Of course you probably do not know this
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 11:41 AM
Jun 2016

But a cross over ballot has nothing to do with your precious party. Like for real there were also elections to central committees. I care not a whit about those. But I am advocating that any party that closes the primary pays for the costs of running that primary. You want to run your club fine. I do not want to pay for it

And the way it works in California, to no small ironic effect, due to Republicans. Except for the president, everybody is in the pool.

Raster

(20,996 posts)
36. Absolutely! If you want to have a closed, partisan primary...
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 03:22 PM
Jun 2016

...than the party pays for it. Don't use my tax dollars to subsidize your private club.

hedda_foil

(16,368 posts)
6. Simple. Because the candidate of one or the other party will be our next President.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 11:47 AM
Jun 2016

Being independent doesn't mean the voter doesn't care who is eventually elected . Nor should it mean that they have no opportunity to vote in the prism for the person they believe would be the best president. Not being formally affiliated with either of the two major parties should not mean having no say until the very end of the campaign season.

For the record, I'm a 71 year old white lady who has been on the board of my city's Democratic organization. I have always voted D.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
10. I'm not a member of the Teacher's Union
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 12:18 PM
Jun 2016

But it's really important to me who is heading up the CTU--it affects enormous amounts of stuff in my city, and I pay big-time property taxes for the schools and care deeply about how they are run, how hiring works, how much teachers are paid, how negotiations are carried out with the district, etc. May I vote in the Chicago Teacher's Union election?

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
42. Then probably you ought to join a party.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 03:55 PM
Jun 2016

If you want a say in those party's nominations, then join. Pretty simple really. (that's a generic you, not you specifically).

-none

(1,884 posts)
48. The party should not select ONE candidate and back them, when other candidates are running.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:26 PM
Jun 2016

The party is suppose to be impartial until the peopel all have had a chance to vote.
The winner is for the voters to decide, not the party leaders before the campaign has even started.
What we have now is like certain other countries where the state selects one candidate to run and there is no opposition candidate to vote for.
Basically that is what the Democratic party tried to do. Bernie kinda mucked their plans. This old upstart unknown, wasn't supposed to be able to do so well against the person the party itself chose. He was just supposed to be window dressing to make it look as if the people had a choice.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
50. "supposed?"
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:37 PM
Jun 2016

Primaries are a relatively modern idea. And in no case do I think there is any imperative for the party leadership to remain impartial, though that has been the modern tradition, more or less.

Now as for THIS primary, people certainly DID have a choice. We had a couple terrible candidates (Webb and Chaffee) and several good ones (Clinton, Sanders and O'Malley). Obviously the voters down-selected to Sanders and Clinton fairly quickly. And frankly, Sanders did MUCH better than I anticipated he would. But in the end, he just didn't convince enough people.

And as for the "party itself," that's me. I'm a Democrat. I am registered a Democrat (and have been for 32 years), I donate to the party, and I volunteer. The "party" isn't just some shadowy people sitting on the DNC, it's us... the people out here int he trenches phone banking, canvassing, and organizing.

Squinch

(50,773 posts)
57. The voters did decide who won. What you are describing as what you want is exactly what happened.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:52 PM
Jun 2016

No, your candidate did not win, but the process was exactly what you describe as what you advocate.

-none

(1,884 posts)
63. You missed my point about the party being impartial and treating each Dem candidate fairly.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 05:00 PM
Jun 2016

That obviously did not happen. So the people actually did not have a fair choice in many states.

 

larkrake

(1,674 posts)
79. the party leaders have their own agenda.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 07:25 PM
Jun 2016

you are partially right and it would be best to form a progressive Party. Bernie chose to change it from within, lets sit back and see if the DNC is going to notice us, or is too stubborn to work for the people. I will observe and join accordingly to the better group. It is not my desire to 3rd party the dems, but if they cant change from globalization, I will. It cannot go on the way it is.It is time for an intervention.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
8. I don't want the party to think they get any promises from me.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 12:07 PM
Jun 2016

Outside of primaries and other certain times, I stay NPA.

I have worked to get Democrats elected in this state all while showing up on the voter roles as NPA. I don't suggest it to many people in Florida. You have to pay close attention in order to do this. Florida has dramatically improved its processes over the last twenty years but you do have to pay attention.

democrattotheend

(11,605 posts)
9. Because you still care about who becomes president
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 12:16 PM
Jun 2016

There are plenty of voters who sometimes vote Democrat and sometimes vote Republican. Those people still have preferences about who they want to become president. I have several friends, all libertarian or Republican-leaning, who genuinely thought that Bernie was a better choice for president than any of the other options in either party at the time our primary came around. I am not talking about strategic voters - they all thought Bernie was the best choice because he is independent of the banks and corporate oligarchs, and they liked his positions on issues like civil liberties and ending the war on drugs. They were not concerned about his social welfare proposals because they figured he'd never get them passed.

Because of NY's ridiculous 6 month party change deadline, none of them could vote for him in the primary. And now they won't be able to vote for him in the general, which will have two candidates they had no say in picking, even though they are US citizens and were ready willing and able to do their civic duty and vote in April. How is that fair?

Squinch

(50,773 posts)
61. Joining a party does not preclude you from voting for people from the other party if that is
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:58 PM
Jun 2016

what you choose. If you want to vote in the primary, join a party.

I do not want your libertarian and Republican friends to be choosing who we run as the Democratic candidate.

And I am a New Yorker. The fact is that the 6 month deadline was a Republican piece of legislation.

So if your Republican friends were upset that they could not change their party affiliation to decide who the Democratic candidate was, they had no one to blame but themselves.

democrattotheend

(11,605 posts)
68. Most of them are not really Republicans
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 05:22 PM
Jun 2016

They are mostly libertarians who skew a little bit more towards Republican. But several of them said they would have voted for Bernie over Trump. None of them will consider voting for Hillary.

My boyfriend, who has always voted Libertarian for president but is not happy with Gary Johnson, even said last night that if Bernie had gotten the nomination, he probably would have voted for him over Johnson.

I met a guy at the train station when leafletting for Bernie on election day who expressed a lot of frustration at being shut out. He is a regular voter but a true independent - sometimes votes Democrat, sometimes votes Republican. He did not even tell me who he favored this year, but I thought it was really unfair that people like him don't get to have a say. And it's especially unfair in New York, regardless of who put it in place.

Squinch

(50,773 posts)
72. I originally registered in New York as an Independent. It was not a big deal to
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 05:33 PM
Jun 2016

change over to being a Democrat. Yes, it did require that I use google, learn how to do it, and not leave it till the last minute, but ya know...

It's perfectly fair. Independents are informed when they choose to be Independents that they will not be able to vote in the primary. And they still choose to be Independents. If they want to vote in the primary, they simply have to select a party sooner rather than later.

And sorry, I still don't want your Libertarian and sort-of-Republican friends to be choosing who the Democrats run for president. Libertarians and Republicans want the opposite of what the Democrats want. If the primaries are open to them, they will screw with the wishes of Democrats and pull the party right.

democrattotheend

(11,605 posts)
82. Funny you should say that
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 12:04 AM
Jun 2016

One of my friends is actually resigning from the party because he feels that it is becoming just that, in those exact words. He says they have started nominating washed up Republicans instead of true libertarians these past 3 elections to try to get a greater vote share, but at the expense of principal. He is so mad about them renominating Gary Johnson that he actually said last night he probably would have voted for Bernie instead in the general election if it were an option.

WhiteTara

(29,676 posts)
84. Glad he is finally catching on. Only the last 3 cycles?
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 10:28 AM
Jun 2016

I don't think he has been paying attention for a long time.

democrattotheend

(11,605 posts)
85. He has been active in the LP since he was a little kid
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:27 AM
Jun 2016

But the last 3 presidential elections, the LP nominee has been someone who previously held office as a Republican.

alc

(1,151 posts)
11. to let the party know what direction to move if they want me
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 12:34 PM
Jun 2016

Most people think elections are about winning. They're also about providing direction.

If Hillary won big all year, the Ds wouldn't worry about Bernie's issues and Hillary could ignore them in the general. Whether his voters were Ds or independents, the party knows that there are A LOT of people who want that direction. If independents weren't allowed to say "I'm ok with this type of D - Bernie" then Hillary may have won bigger but not have as much idea of the voters' preferences. Hillary now knows to pay attention to those issues in the general if she wants to win those voters. And the party probably wants to pay attention to them over the next few elections unless they are confident those voters will go D anyhow.

 

bigwillq

(72,790 posts)
13. Because I want to have a say in every election that affects me
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 12:58 PM
Jun 2016

I am registered DEM, but I want to vote in the R primary as well as the D, because either the R or the D is going to be prez, thus affecting my life.

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
14. Why do you come catering us to in a GE if we can't vote in your primaries?
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 12:58 PM
Jun 2016

I'm an Indy Lib.

And yet our taxes pay for your primaries? You call out to us and say how we "NEED" to vote for the Dem candidate? Yet you won't give a voice in primaries?

This is something which will be changing. Rather soon I suspect. Now that Dems make up only what? 23% of the electorate?

If indy's can't have a say who is nominated then stop courting their votes in the GE. Nobody should be paying taxes for a primary either. That whole "no taxation without representation thing" going on, ya dig?

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
17. Seriously, don't come calling to us to support your candidate if we can't help pick them
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 01:08 PM
Jun 2016

It's complete stupidity.

Yavin4

(35,357 posts)
23. There are benefits to being a part of an organization
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 01:36 PM
Jun 2016

Going back to my union example, when you're in a union you can collectively bargain for better pay and working conditions. When you're in a political party, you can get primaries paid for by the state. These are direct benefits from being in a group.

As for asking for your vote, it's your vote. You may vote for whomever you want in the general election.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
30. I live in Massachusetts. We have an open primary.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 02:51 PM
Jun 2016

No state should have to pay for closed primaries where the electorate is not allowed to vote.

jamese777

(546 posts)
18. What's best for a political party
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 01:18 PM
Jun 2016

is to have a mix of caucuses, open primaries, hybrid systems and closed primaries. That way the party gets to assess how its candidates perform with differing constituencies: party loyalists and activists, the party's base supporters and independents/members of other parties.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
41. Primaries are accessible for all. Caucuses suppress the vote.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 03:52 PM
Jun 2016

Many working people, parents, persons with disabilities, people who wish to keep their vote private and others are not going to take part in a caucus.

A primary, though, is easy to take part in, especially if there's a mail-in option.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
64. I agree, caucuses suppress the vote, i have always thought this, there are working people, seniors
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 05:00 PM
Jun 2016

And handicapped people who can not express their choice during the caucus hours. I would hope they are not included in the next primary election. Since this is the RNC and DNC primaries voting should be to those who are members of the parties, it is not difficult to join and register in either party, effort has to be made, expressing one's desire to vote in a party's primary is not denied since the parties can be selected.

jamese777

(546 posts)
22. In 2012
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 01:34 PM
Jun 2016

Exit polls found that 45% of Independents voted for Obama; 50% voted for Romney and 5% voted for third parties. Independents were 29% of the electorate. Democrats were 38% and Republicans were 32%.

KK9

(81 posts)
24. Because I can
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 02:05 PM
Jun 2016

It's not just Sanders supporters who are not enrolled as Democrats. I'm a Clinton supporter and I've been an "unenrolled" voter here in Mass for decades. We have semi-closed primaries, so both unenrolled voters and Democrats could vote in the Democratic primary, but no members of another party could.

I'm liberal and I vote for Democrats the vast majority of the time, but I do like to keep my options open, there have been rare occasions over the years where I voted in another party's primary, for various reasons. I honestly don't see any benefit in registering as a Democrat, even though it is the party I have the greatest affinity for.

53% of the registered voters in Massachusetts are "unenrolled" and this is a very liberal state. Many, many people who would be registered as Democrats if they had to pick a party have also chosen not to do so. Seems normal to me.

thesquanderer

(11,954 posts)
26. In states with open primaries, it is nice to have the flexibility...
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 02:31 PM
Jun 2016

...to vote in the Dem primary when that is the one of more interest to you, and to vote in the Republican primary when that is the one that is of more interest to you. Sometimes, for example, your own party's nominee is uncontested, but you might still have a preference about who would be elected in the event that your preferred candidate lost.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
43. I'm sure flexibility is nice and all....
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 03:57 PM
Jun 2016

But that flexbility doesn't justify you selecting the candidate for a party you do not belong to.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
27. To influence the outcome. That's why anyone votes.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 02:34 PM
Jun 2016

There's plenty of crossover voting between the two major parties, and it's not always mischievous.

 

tonyt53

(5,737 posts)
31. Nobody is forcing anybody to not be able to vote in a primary. Indies chose to be indies
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 03:00 PM
Jun 2016

If they want to vote for a candidate, then that is what the general election is all about.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
33. With that kind of backward thinking I wouldn't expect indies
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 03:04 PM
Jun 2016

to give your candidate the time of day.

...it being a free country and all.

Yavin4

(35,357 posts)
37. So, you think that the entire purpose of a political party is find candidates that you like
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 03:23 PM
Jun 2016

It serves no other purpose? That's the only way you'll get involved?

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
38. Due to people like you, you can guarantee
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 03:25 PM
Jun 2016

I will not join your party like EVER, on the bright side, I will not join the Rs either. And for the same reason. I do not want to be in the same room, with people who get so personal in their attacks that I do not and cannot consider them even friends in passing.

Just wanted to let you know that

But do continue to dial up to a million, or more.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
53. If the candidate anyone prefers is running in any party I'd think anyone would want to see
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:46 PM
Jun 2016

them get the nomination

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
39. Most independents are party loyalists.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 03:26 PM
Jun 2016
http://www.thenation.com/article/what-everyone-gets-wrong-about-independent-voters/

While around four-in-10 voters say they’re independents, very few are actually swing voters. In fact, according to an analysis of voting patterns conducted by Michigan State University political scientist Corwin Smidt, those who identify as independents today are more stable in their support for one or the other party than were “strong partisans” back in the 1970s. According to Dan Hopkins, a professor of government at the University of Pennsylvania, “independents who lean toward the Democrats are less likely to back GOP candidates than are weak Democrats.”

While most independents vote like partisans, on average they’re slightly more likely to just stay home in November. “Typically independents are less active and less engaged in politics than are strong partisans,” says Smidt.

Rising polarization—and the increasingly personal and nasty nature of our politics—has had a paradoxical effect on the American electorate. On one hand, the growing distance between the two major parties has contributed to a dramatic decrease in the number of true swing voters. Smidt found that low-information voters today are as aware that there are significant differences between the two major parties as well-informed people were in the 1970s, and people who are aware of those differences tend to have more consistent views of the parties’ candidates. At the same time, says Smidt, many people who vote consistently for one party say they’re independents because they “view partisanship as bad” and see claiming allegiance to a party “as socially unacceptable.”
 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
40. It's not like a dog taking wing, it's just a choice of Party. We have a closed primary. What does
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 03:46 PM
Jun 2016

that actually mean? That two weeks before the election or so you declare for the Party you wish to vote for. So it's not like being in a Party is genetic or takes training or has a waiting period. No one has to vouch for you. Just say 'I'm a Democrat' and that's that. Independent no more.

So would it really matter if that person just voted? Not really. Not in any real sense and not in any way that is altered by the two or three weeks in advance they have to do now. Makes it easier on voters, but it proves nothing more about them. It's politics, alliances shift with the winds as you know more than anyone. Are you a 'Hillary supporter' or a 'Hillary detractor'? You have stated both things at various times. According to you and others like you it is because you changed your mind. If you changed your view, can't others do the same?

DrDan

(20,411 posts)
44. I am an independent and live in Florida - hence cannot vote in the primary
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:00 PM
Jun 2016

I do not feel entitled and have no problem with this.

I can still donate and work for my choice - which I have done this primary season.

rock

(13,218 posts)
45. They don't want to vote for a Democrat
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:10 PM
Jun 2016

They want to vote for Bernie. Who is on the Democratic ticket.

-none

(1,884 posts)
52. Bernie ran as a Democrat.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:46 PM
Jun 2016

The DNC is supposed to treat all candidates equally. Not decide the winner before any party member had a chance to say anything.
If a candidate runs as a Democrat, they need to be treated as any other Democratic candidate running. Fairly. Bernie was not.

rock

(13,218 posts)
73. He clearly does not care about the Democrats
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 05:39 PM
Jun 2016

Therefore, he's not a Democrat. There's other indicators mas well.

-none

(1,884 posts)
74. Then why did he do as well as he did despite the best efforts of the DNC to sideline him?
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 06:43 PM
Jun 2016

Democrats are supposed to be for the people, not the corporations. Bernie is for the people. What does Hillary stand for?

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
88. Rhetoric like yours is insulting to the Democratic States that voted for him in great numbers
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:37 AM
Jun 2016

I'm in Oregon, our closed Primary was won by Senator Sanders by double digit margins. Hillary lost to Bernie here bigger than her loss to Obama. Oregon has two Democratic Senators, 4 out of 5 House members, a blue State House and Governor.
What State do you live in?

rock

(13,218 posts)
91. In the sense that true Democrats were taken in by his con
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:51 AM
Jun 2016

That's true. But after all I'm only speaking the truth. I live in Indiana, a red state to my disconcerntion.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
46. Maybe because you like a candidate?
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:13 PM
Jun 2016

The difference between the average Democrat and an independent is relatively meaningless.

A Democrat has chosen at some point to register as such as a voter. It may simply be that they liked a particular candidate in a past election, and never bothered to switch because they usually vote Democratic.

But it's not like they went through some super secret initiation ceremony, or are required to work at least 15 hours a week for the party.....Most Democrats just vote, perhaps give some money sometimes.....maybe volunteer-- or not. Otherwise just go about their lives.







SDJay

(1,089 posts)
47. Couple of Reasons for Me Personally
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:21 PM
Jun 2016

1. I was a Democrat until I saw the current DNC 'leader' doing one of the worst jobs I've ever seen in a supposed leader. I will not put that letter next to my name as long as she is in that chair. I was proud to do so under Dr. Dean, for example. Perhaps when someone competent and not corrupt (only my opinion) takes that seat I'll rejoin.

2. My tax dollars help pay for this. If we're going to be strict constructionists, then pay for your own primary. If you pay taxes, you should be able to vote in a primary, in my opinion.

Time for change

(13,714 posts)
49. Because typically only the Republican and Democratic nominees have a viable chance of being elected
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:36 PM
Jun 2016

If you don't vote in the major party primaries you have no say in who the only two viable candidates will be.

 

peace13

(11,076 posts)
51. Blue ribbon for most ridiculous post ever.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:44 PM
Jun 2016

People are allowed to participate in the process. They have a right to it.How hard is that to understand. One day you will have trouble at the polls or you will find out your vote was stolen and it will all make sense to you. Some have empathy others have to experience it for it to be true. Good luck and safe travels!

Dem2

(8,166 posts)
56. I've never registered to a party
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:51 PM
Jun 2016


It's called "unaffiliated" in my state. I've voted for Democrats every single time. If my state said I couldn't vote in the primary unless I was a registered Democrat, then I would do so.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
58. To me it's more like we want to support the union but they don't want our support
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:53 PM
Jun 2016

ya know I'd always thought the sort of exclusionism I've seen from party members was something the other engaged in, I was wrong

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
59. in an attempt to assure there is a candidate worth supporting in the GE
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:55 PM
Jun 2016

it did work this time. The corporations and their stooges won.

cliffordu

(30,994 posts)
80. Lifelong democrat here.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 07:34 PM
Jun 2016

Probably going independent after the election.

The third way corporatocracy no longer warrants my support.

I'll support only those that hold my personal political belief.

I'm glad I'm almost 65. I'll not suffer what I perceive to be the worst of the next 50 years.

Unless the money addicts are stripped from the political process, I pity your children, your grandchildren.....

And at this point no one with a shot at the presidency will even give it a second thought.

longship

(40,416 posts)
81. In many states all voters are independents...
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 07:42 PM
Jun 2016

because there is no party registration.

In my state, Michigan, for instance, I can't register as a Democrat. Nobody can.

All presidential primaries should be open. Give everybody the right to vote in the primaries.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
90. Anyone 18 and over can vote for president of the United States
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:47 AM
Jun 2016

But only union members can vote for union president

Your analogy doesn't fit.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
96. For some, it's because they think they know better than
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 03:16 PM
Jun 2016

the party members. That trick rarely works, though. It didn't work this year, either. It's a big Party.

WolverineDG

(22,298 posts)
97. Because there is actually a candidate who stands for what you believe in
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 03:16 PM
Jun 2016

and you'd like the opportunity to vote for them in the general election.

The vast majority of Americans are independents, like it or not.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
99. So you can support the candidate you like best.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 03:19 PM
Jun 2016

Shows why the two-party system as stands is a monopoly on power for those with money.

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