Yes, its OK to vote for Hillary because she is a woman!

[procon]

I'm a woman, and in ways both good and bad, that inescapable fact has shaped my entire life. As a little girl I learned that my place in our authoritarian, patriarchal society was to be demure, chaste, and submissive, while having mad skills in the kitchen. As a young woman, I quickly learned that my boobs were more valuable than my brain, and my gender made me too flighty and irresponsible to get credit, buy a car or a house in my name alone. My various body parts also denied me employment, lowered my paycheck and benefits, and made me into a convenient sexual object for every man around. Its not really any different today.

Damned straight, I'm going to vote for Hillary Clinton! And I'm going to vote for her because one of her most valuable assets is her strength as a powerful and articulate woman who has always been a fighter for the rights of little girls, young women and all women. We have been waiting for a leader like Hillary Clinton to move this country into the 21st century where women finally have equality in all things.

Laws have been written to hold women back, cut our pay, diminish our human and civil rights, and deny us even the basic autonomy of our own minds and bodies. Politicians gleefully pass laws to deny us the right to seek legal protections under a fair and unbiased justice system or demand redress for the harms done to us. Religious groups have organized to force new laws that keep us second class citizens, just chattel, of no more worth than a brood mare. Women have no right to demand equality or just and fair treatment under the existent laws.


Our society punishes and humiliates women both for not having children, as well as for having them. The recriminations for simply being a poor woman or an old woman, or a woman with brown skin, or a woman of a different faith, adds insult to injury. Too often the legal system colludes with moneyed interests in barbaric decisions that deny food to hungry people, or poison them with toxic air and water in acts of depraved cruelty just because there is no one who will speak up.

Yes, I'm going to vote for Hillary Clinton because she is a woman, a strong woman who said that half her cabinet will be women, so I know her whole administration will be working on promoting women's equality.

Almost 25 years ago, Hillary Clinton gave a famous speech, "Women's Rights Are Human Rights", advocating for ways to improve women's lives. These issues are not just important to women, but they will also have an enormous impact on everyone -- children, families, men -- who will all benefit when women gain full equality. I hope The Equal Rights Amendment will be dusted off, as it promotes the shocking concept of, “Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.” It has never been ratified to change the Constitution, maybe now with Hillary Clinton, it will finally get passed.

So, yes, I'm going to vote for Hillary Clinton, the woman, and the next President of the United States.

[democrattotheend]

1. I agree with you

I will readily admit that I am more excited to vote for Hillary in November than I otherwise would be because she is a woman. I admired her a lot as a little girl and in many ways I still do. I like that she has defied gender stereotypes since she was first lady of Arkansas, for one thing. Hillary may not have been my first choice candidate in 2008 or 2016 but I am still excited about nominating and possibly electing a woman president.

[99Forever]

2. Okay.

Then you also don't have a problem those that will vote against her because she is a woman, correct?

[procon]

5. If you're voting for inequality and discrimination, I have nothing to offer beyond contempt. nt

[seabeyond]

20. Ya, because he thought that argument was brilliant. Lordy. Nt

[Herman4747]

26. Aw, don't be willing to offer so little. After all...

...you're the one doing the discriminating.

[99Forever]

27. You didn't answer the question.

I have never voted based on gender, if that's any of your business.

Now please answer the question.

[procon]

41. Stop looking for validation.

I can't give you what you want. It's your problem and you'll have to come to terms with it the best you can.

[hrmjustin]

51. +1

[99Forever]

58. "My problem" is that you openly discriminate based on gender?

How so? Please explain yourself.

And what precisely is it you would have me "come to terms" with? That I'm not a sexist like you are? I "came to terms" with that some people are sexists long ago.

And you STILL haven't answered the question.

[procon]

63. Look at yourself; still ordering women around.

When I spoke of the all too prevalent authoritarian, patriarchal society that demands that women must be submissive, I also mentioned that crushing and domineering, bullying attitude remained with us today. And here you are, demanding that the women of this forum should kowtow to you, someone accustomed to living the life of male privilege.

You're ordering women around, dictating that we should comply with your orders like we're just some sort of trained dogs... or children, chattel that you can command -- Explain yourself! Answer me! -- as if you actually believe that you're entitled to our attention and deserving of any reply whatsoever.

[Bobbie Jo]

65. ...

[99Forever]

67. I didn't "order(ing) women around, I asked you a simple question.

A question you have yet to answer. Why is that? Could it be that it proves you to a be classic hypocrite? One railing against the very thing you are doing at the very same time?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[procon]

68. The desire for knowledge first requires an open mind and tolerance.

But that's not what you really want, is it? You just want the validation of being "right". You've backed yourself into weakened position and now you're resorting to making these passive aggressive demands, as if intimidation will bolster your outrageous remarks. It won't work. A woman is going to be our next President, and millions of that shared sisterhood are working to elect her.

[99Forever]

69. You could just answer the question instead of twisting yourself into a pretzel...

... trying to hide from it. Or admit that you don't really mind discrimination, as long as it's against those you have a persecution complex over.

[seabeyond]

88. You are talking as if we already have the level playing field, just as Sanders did and his fail.

You ignore that fact we are not on level field. You argue falsehood as did Sanders. Clinton, being a woman that has never had a level playing field, ergo having to work that much harder on top of obstacles, recognizes this. She will not and does not make the huge ass mistake of ignoring the Unlevel playing field. That is why all of us that recognizes the unlevel playing field supports Clinton and not Sanders.

His mistake and refusal to listen because in all his privilege and entitlement he just knows he is so much smarter than those of us living it.

His mistake to the point of his loss.

[99Forever]

95. People that discriminate...

...alway claim to have "valid reasons" for their bigotry. This is no exception from that simply because you like it.

[boston bean]

96. And you insist on proving that point.

[seabeyond]

97. Ignoring fact doesn't win your argument.

[99Forever]

106. I asked a perfectly valid question of the OP.

That the OP has yet to answer it, is the actual pertenant fact.

[seabeyond]

107. No. And I told you why it is not a perfectly valid question. Yet you ignore reasoning again.

[99Forever]

112. You are not the judge here.

Regardless of what think. Period.

[seabeyond]

114. Opinion is not fact 99. You argue opinion. I gave you fact.

[99Forever]

116. I asked the OP a question.

You stuck your nose in. Thr fact is the OP has not answered that question.

[seabeyond]

125. I gave you the answer. Petulant?

[Florencenj2point0]

74. oh yes you have

we all have.

[Florencenj2point0]

75. yup, and I bet

when you look at an African American you don't see a POC.

[athena]

30. Right. Because we know that sexism against women is a thing of the past.

So that being pro-woman equates to being anti-woman.

Some of us live in the real world. Only someone who does not live with discrimination on a daily basis could suggest that for a woman to be pro-woman is the same as for a man or a woman to be anti-woman.

[apcalc]

80. Yes, I do have a problem with it because that continues discrimination

Instead of working against it.


Screw the status quo! Open ALL the doors to women!

[Darb]

100. Do you believe that reverse-racism is real too?

I bet you do. It sounds like you are grasping at excuses.

[99Forever]

105. I have no interest your strawman distraction.

[Darb]

117. Yes you do.

It just went over your head. Did you hear it zip by?

[99Forever]

118. ...

[Darb]

119. I knew you cared.

[99Forever]

121. ...

[Darb]

122. Ahhhh, you're too kind.

Thanks for being there for me.

[rock]

127. You may call them misogynists

Don't be shy.

[99Forever]

128. I don't recall asking for your advice.

[rock]

129. I don't recall you did either

[99Forever]

131. Then perhaps I'll just ignore you.

Bye bye.

[GaYellowDawg]

130. As we say in the South, you done fucked up there.

You to DU: What's that you're holding? A lit match? Well, what a coincidence! I just took a gasoline shower! Come give me a hug!

Damn, dude. Just damn. Talk about self-immolation.

[99Forever]

132. Where I live we don't consider asking a simple question...

... reason to light someone on fire. Damn dude, I think I like where I live better.

[GaYellowDawg]

133. Where you live, you apparently don't endorse reading comprehension.

Did you see the term "self-immolation"? Let me put it in a box for you, so that you can read it.

self-immolation

Now, you did get the part about "immolation" right. It does involve fire. However, you seem to have missed the first part of the word. Self. S-E-L-F. You know: of or directed toward your own person. In other words, self-immolation means to set yourself on fire.

So. To continue. The gist of my post to you was not that anyone would consider your simple (an appropriate term if you meant "of abnormally low intelligence&quot question a reason to light someone on fire. The gist of my post to you was that your question, in its breathtaking, jaw-dropping, ill-mannered, ill-considered stupidity, was the verbal/metaphorical equivalent of setting yourself on fire.

Do you understand? If you'll shoot me your address in a personal message, I'll be happy to send it to you written out in crayon.

[99Forever]

137. Ahhh.. isn't that special?

A morality lecture from a dispenser of multiple personal insults.

Simple indeed. Bye bye, southern guy.

[Herman4747]

3. How do you respond to someone exclaiming:

"I'm going to vote for Trump because he's a man!"?

[procon]

4. Show me where men's privilege have suffered the same discrimination as women.

When men need a Constitution Amendment to protect them from the machinations of a State run by the vagaries and whims of women, only then will your speculation be given due consideration.

[Herman4747]

7. This isn't about discrimination!!! (Unless you're deliberately...

...discriminating against men!). This isn't about privileges suffering in the past. This is about how the presence of a female anatomy should be the deciding factor (overriding all other considerations) in voting for a candidate.
Again, how would you respond to someone who declares "I shall vote for Trump because he's a man!"?

[procon]

12. You don't even recognize that you are part of the problem, do you?

All you get out of the whole effort to achieve women's equality is that we must be talking about "female anatomy". No wonder we are still struggling and fighting for our basic equal rights as American citizens. Look at you now, a Democrat, who says women cannot choose a woman for president. We can, and Hillary Clinton is our champion for women's equality and the critical human rights issues impacting the lives of women from cradle to grave. You have summarily dismissed women as mere objects of "female anatomy", and if you think Trump is an effective counterpoint to women's rights, then you've truly lost your way.

[Herman4747]

16. Well, thanks for the insult. But...

...I NEVER SAID THAT WOMEN CANNOT CHOOSE A WOMAN FOR PRESIDENT. Does the noted tendency of your beloved candidate TO LIE rub off on you?
My reference to "female anatomy" was only made because to you it seems to be an overriding criterion in choosing a president. Fine. You have your way, I have mine.
Not surprisingly, you have no answer to someone who declares "I will vote for Trump because he's a man!" If others base their voting decisions not on the issues but on the gender, at this point you have no response.

[athena]

50. To think that being a woman is a mere matter of anatomy

one must be a man who has never bothered to listen to women. If it were just a matter of anatomy, 22 of those 44 presidents would have been female. Half of Congress would be female. Women would not be earning 79 cents to every male dollar. If only our society saw gender as a mere detail of anatomy!

Alas, in this society, being born with the wrong genitals forces you into a life where you will earn less, lose out on promotions and career advancement, have to do nearly all the house work if you choose to live with a man, be responsible for all the child care if you choose to have a child with a man, and be denied the opportunity to compete equally in high-paying or influential fields such as science, engineering, or politics. That's why some of us women believe that voting for a woman who has fought for women's rights all her life is the feminist thing to do.

[apcalc]

83. It isn't just anatomy. I'd never vote for, say,

Michele Bachman or Carly Fiorina.

I've got the most knowledgeable and qualified candidate to vote for! And she is a woman! Finally!

[LanternWaste]

18. Many white males have the privileged of believing precisely that.

"This isn't about privileges suffering in the past...."

Many white males have the privileged of believing precisely that.

[seabeyond]

24. Dude, you are the best. Nt

[seabeyond]

21. It isn't about discrimination for you. Says it all.

[athena]

32. People vote for men because of their gender all the time.

Check the list of this country's first 44 presidents, in case you thought otherwise.

If you think that all those men were elected president purely because of their abilities and qualifications and not because of their gender, you must have a very low opinion of women indeed. You must think we're intrinsically inferior -- that the chance that a woman is as capable as a man is less than one in forty four.

For some reason, it's perfectly OK for people to vote for men because they're men, but not OK for women to vote for a woman because she's a woman. Even as women, we are supposed to root for men, and join them in denigrating women. What a sick world this is.

[Herman4747]

37. Okay. Does the tendency of others to discriminate by sex...

when voting in the past, justify continuing this practice into the future? Yes or no???

[athena]

43. Oh, so you think that sexism is a thing of the past!

Why, then, is Congress only 20% female? Is it that women are only 20% as qualified as men to be a member of Congress? Or is it that men and women still vote for men because they're men?

Once again, it's OK to vote for a man because he's a man, but it's not OK to vote for a woman because she's a woman. The very essence of sexism. We live in a black-is-white world, where it is wrong to fight for women's equality, but perfectly all right to continue to support the existing system of unfairness and inequality.

[Herman4747]

45. Why do you change the subject to Congress?

You don't want to answer the questions I posed?
And why is it okay "for a man to vote for a man because he's a man?"

[athena]

46. You're the one trying to change the subject.

You're the one refusing to respond to my points and ignoring the questions I have asked you. You have basically argued that for a woman to vote for a woman is sexist, and that we have to act as though sexism and misogyny are a thing of the past. I have called you out on those claims, but instead of responding, you evade my points and accuse me of changing the topic.

Go ahead. Support Bernie, and tell yourself and everyone that you are engaging in a feminist act. There is only one person you will be fooling. The rest of us live in the real world.

[Herman4747]

62. You asked but a single question, which I had thought was rhetorical:

Here's what you wrote to me:

Check the list of this country's first 44 presidents, in case you thought otherwise.

If you think that all those men were elected president purely because of their abilities and qualifications and not because of their gender, you must have a very low opinion of women indeed. You must think we're intrinsically inferior -- that the chance that a woman is as capable as a man is less than one in forty four.

For some reason, it's perfectly OK for people to vote for men because they're men, but not OK for women to vote for a woman because she's a woman. Even as women, we are supposed to root for men, and join them in denigrating women. What a sick world this is.
************************
Oh, so you think that sexism is a thing of the past!

Why, then, is Congress only 20% female? Is it that women are only 20% as qualified as men to be a member of Congress? Or is it that men and women still vote for men because they're men?

Once again, it's OK to vote for a man because he's a man, but it's not OK to vote for a woman because she's a woman. The very essence of sexism. We live in a black-is-white world, where it is wrong to fight for women's equality, but perfectly all right to continue to support the existing system of unfairness and inequality./

Okay, you want me to try to answer that question, despite the fact that I claim no expertise in political science or sociology? I will try to: "Congress is only 20% female because women are less interested in running for Congress and/or women are discriminated against by voters and/or women are discriminated against by political donors."

NOW, will you proceed to answer the questions that I posed?

[athena]

76. I made points, to which you did not respond. But I will respond to your so-called "questions".

"Congress is only 20% female because women are less interested in running for Congress and/or women are discriminated against by voters and/or women are discriminated against by political donors."

Wow. You think Congress is only 20% female mainly because "women are less interested." I bet that's what you think about the paucity of women in science, as well. Really, this tells me all I need to know about your views on women.

Your questions were, as far as I can tell, not honest questions. In other words, they were not attempts to get an answer and learn something from that answer but rather to teach the other poster something that you clearly think you know better. That's not what a discussion is about. Nonetheless, I will answer your questions.

Question: How do you respond to someone exclaiming: "I'm going to vote for Trump because he's a man!"?
Answer: I would say, "Go ahead. This is nothing new. You've been voting for men because they're men all your life, anyway."

Question: "Okay. Does the tendency of others to discriminate by sex when voting in the past, justify continuing this practice into the future? Yes or no???"
Answer: The tendency of people to discriminate by sex when voting in the past does not justify continuing this practice into the future. That is precisely the reason to vote for a woman. Frankly, it's funny that you don't see what your comment is really saying.

Question: "And why is it okay 'for a man to vote for a man because he's a man?'"
Answer: Clearly, you didn't understand the point I was making. It's ironic and revealing that people (like you) are perfectly fine with electing a 45th man as president, but they think it's misandrist to elect a woman as president. In other words, they don't see that voting for a man for president is, intrinsically, voting because of gender. If it were not, we would have seen roughly 22 female presidents by now. People have been voting for men because they're men for centuries. But the moment some women decide to vote for a woman because she is a woman, people (like you) start getting upset and crying "misandry"! (You misuse the term "sexism" to mean "misandry". Just as it is not "racism" for a few Black people to dislike white people, it is not "sexism" for a few women to vote for a woman because she is a woman. Racism and sexism are destructive only because there are institutions established around them. If you don't understand this, you need to read up on racism and sexism. People have been working on this stuff for decades.)

As you can see, I made all these points previously, but you didn't seem to realize that I was, indeed, responding to your points. You have not, however, responded to anything I wrote. In fact, you cannot respond to them because that would mean having to rethink your own position. I doubt very much that you will show that level of flexibility and open-mindedness. Prove me wrong if you can.

I suggest you start listening to some women in the future, instead of assuming that you already know everything. Because based on what you've posted, it's clear that you have a lot to learn about feminism and gender equality.

[Florencenj2point0]

77. stop digging.....

you are getting close to magma and it's gonna bern

[TheKentuckian]

70. Faulty logic here. Just because men were elected it does not follow that gender was the criteria.

I assume you voted for Obama, was that because he was a man? Did you vote against Palin because she is female?

I don't think it is OK for either gender to base their vote on gender, in fact I think it is stupid, myopic, irrational, and sexist by definition either way.

And

No, I didn't vote for Obama because he is black either.

[athena]

79. Why, then have we had 44 male presidents?

Please explain. If this is not a consequence of sexism, then what has caused it? And why is it wrong to correct this imbalance by voting for a woman who is the most qualified candidate and has spent her whole life fighting for women's issues? Why is it OK for all other minorities to support their own group in the belief that a member of their group will represent their concerns better, but not OK for women to support a woman in the belief that she will represent women's issues better?

By the way, I did support President Obama because he is Black. I supported him from the start because I believed it was more urgent for the country to have a Black president than a female president. I could see that this opportunity to have a Black president would not come again within my lifetime. If you did not support President Obama because he's Black, that means you really have not thought deeply about racism and what it means for a country to have a Black president.

Finally, supporting Hillary because she's a woman does not mean supporting her only because she's a woman. Supporting Obama because he's Black does not mean supporting him only because he's Black. I would not support Palin, Bachmann, or Condaleezza Rice, just as I would not support Colin Powell. That being said, I supported President Obama because he's Black, and I support Hillary because she's a woman. It's not so hard to understand if you try.

ETA: In case you get confused about the above, let me point out that I am not Black. I am a white woman. It's therefore not unthinkable for a white woman to vote for a black man to overcome racism. It shouldn't be unthinkable for a man to vote for a woman to overcome sexism, either.

[TheKentuckian]

91. No question sexism has played a giant role especially considering for quite a few of the 44

Women couldn't vote much less be President but I still don't think people are just or even primarily voting gender, that is mighty simplistic and kind of unfair as you assume that there is some active refusal to vote for a woman for the job. It isn't a fair test, none of us has really had the option.

A tie breaker, I guess I can buy. If all things are equal and you can't make up your mind from an ideological, policy, temperament, intelligence, empathy point of view then fine use that as your coin flip but anything beyond that is essentially bigotry and even that is highly unlikely. I can't think of a time when I thought candidates were so close that I was stuck with coin flips and tie breakers.

[athena]

108. The candidates are not close.

We're talking here about voting against a person who is the better, more qualified, more politically adept candidate because she's a woman. And yet that is not what you call "bigotry". No. You call it "bigotry" to vote for a woman who is the better, more qualified, more politically adept candidate because she's a woman. What this primary has revealed, more than anything, is the depth of misogyny in our society -- just as President Obama's presidency revealed the depth of our racism.

[TheKentuckian]

136. I also think it is either lazy or fingers in the ear to throw around misogyny

because people think candidates should be weighed on their policies, ideology, temperament, world view, and commitment to shared ideals and worldview rather than gender.

You are also fucking high as Cheech and Chong if you think I'd be supporting Clinton if she was a fella or would be opposing Sanders if he was a woman. You're so locked into your primary filter you can't avoid distortion or even perceive that someone could have a different assessment of candidates than you.

From where I sit, it seems like you don't actually believe in equality but rather seek to flip to female dominance because it is about the content of the person and their character but rather primarily a demographic survey. I think that is misguided.

Woman, man, black, white, gay, straight or whatever I don't give a damn. I care about values, ideology, and priorities combined with temperament, trust, and ability. Who not what, that is equality to me, Charlie Brown and I have nothing to be ashamed of at all.

You are free to do and think as you will but you are not entitled to agreement.

[athena]

138. No one would be supporting Sanders if he were a woman.

Women in this society don't get away with appearing angry, waving their hands like crazy, cutting people off, and yelling. Being able to do those things and still be admired is one of the privileges of being a white male in this country.

You seem to want to think you live in a world where sexism is a thing of the past. Only someone who has never been hurt by misogyny and has never bothered to listen to women who have could possibly think such a thing. Open your eyes and look around you. Why do you think you never see women who act like Sanders? It's not a matter of biology. It's a matter of survival.

It's also interesting that you feel the need to be so angry and so nasty. And I'm not sure where you get the stuff about "entitled to agreement" from. It seems to me that if anyone is acting like he's "entitled to agreement", it's you.

[TheKentuckian]

139. I require no agreement to be correct. I hope you find a way to value who you are and

in turn learn to value others on who they are not the form they came into the world in.

You are more than your body and so is everyone else. I'm sad that it seems you have been objectified so much that it dominates your perspective just as it did their's. The stuff of a vicious cycle, a shame.

[athena]

140. I have no idea what you're talking about.

You are totally off the mark. I've faced sexism, as has every woman in this country who is over 35, but I have never been objectified. I am a physicist, a programmer, a nerd, and an artist -- i.e., more of a mind person than a body person. I suggest you avoid making assumptions about people you've never met based on a few posts on the internet.

[MichiganVote]

84. Depends. In the days of JFK,gender and looks were def. factors.

For another consideration, Reagan's supposed masculinity/looks were also factors. Men in America have always been associated with strength.

[Squinch]

90. I was absolutely thrilled to vote for Obama, not least BECAUSE he was black. The same with Hillary.

I will love voting for her and part of that joy will be because she is a woman.

And no, before you go there, I would not vote for Bachman or Palin, and yes, I understand that Thatcher sucked.

But we have never had a woman president before. And here is a candidate who is a woman who I can proudly vote for. It is a wonderful thing, and I won't let anyone tell me differently.

[boston bean]

98. I'm sorry, but claiming sexism against men when throughout history, we have had 44 males presidents

and then denying sexism had anything to do with it, it just to rich.

[athena]

110. Totally.

[apcalc]

81. They don't say it...but there are enough who think it

And act accordingly.

[Surya Gayatri]

6. Tell it! Hill, YEEEESSSSSSSSS!

Damned straight, I'm going to vote for Hillary Clinton! And I'm going to vote for her because one of her most valuable assets is her strength as a powerful and articulate woman who has always been a fighter for the rights of little girls, young women and all women.

[seabeyond]

8. What a righteous feminist rant. !!! The absurdity I hear in reducing this to merely voting for woman

I don't even bother with the whole of it. You did very well. It is not simply a little irrelevant sentence, but so much more. And it is going to be a blast. This primary, so many of the voices are women. I am enjoying it so.

[procon]

23. Me too, thanks! nt

[Orsino]

9. It sure is.

After centuries of American snubs, I cannot fault anyone for simply voting XX.

[zenabby]

10. Yes.

Well said.

I find it amusing that the same people who say that gender should be not a cause for influencing the vote will also ask next : Is the country ready for two women on the ticket? If there is no discrimination at all, and it was all in the past, what has kept a majority of people (women) to not have a single president representative? Why is it that the country still has an issue with two women on ticket, when two men on ticket has been the norm all these years?

I will not vote for someone purely because they are a woman. I would not vote for Sarah Palin or Carly. But I would vote for Hillary, in large part because I admire her, and because she is a woman. We need role models. My daughters need to see it. It is not enough for a man to "cherish" women. We need women to shape the policies since no matter what - men don't understand women's issues as women do.

[bvar22]

11. Of course it is OK to vote for a woman,

but it is NOT OK to vote for Hillary just because she is a woman.


I noticed in your entire OP that the only issue you mention is Women's Rights, and that Hillary is a fighter for those.

Did you know that Libya was the most advanced country in North Africa before Hillary"helped" them? Women had rights. They could own money, own and sell property, own and drive cars, own and sell businesses, had rights in courts, could wear blue jeans (or dress how they wanted on the streets), go to clubs "unattended",.....but not anymore.

After Hillary "helped" these women by siding with the Fundamentalists (Libya's Taliban),
Sharia Law was imposed, and all of the above rights disappeared.

This billboard began appearing all over Libya dictating how women must now dress:

How does Hillary apologize to THESE women?


How does Hillary apologize to the thousands and thousands of dead and maimed women and destroyed families in Iraq...another state where women used to have rights.
How does Hillary apologize to the MILLIONS of women refugees who have had their homes and families destroyed, and now are forced to live in filthy refugee camps or risk their lives and their children trying to sneak out?

..and what about the women of Honduras?
DO you know what happened there?

Did Hillary "help" women by supporting the Welfare to Work program?
Most would say "NO"!


Hillary talks a good game about "helping" women and children, but if one examines her record over the World, she has done much more harm than good.

[zenabby]

13. What?

So there were all these men presidents in the world before, all over, and there were no wars. Then Hillary became SoS and Libya was torn apart. Yes, all the women's issues and people issues and wars around the world happened because Hillary was first lady, senator and SoS.

Sometimes these posts don't make any sense.

[bvar22]

15. Do some homework.

AS Sec. of State, Hillary pushed for the intervention in Libya which Obama was resisting. Hillary's lobbying FOR the bombing of Libya was the instrumental piece.

The Coup in Honduras also belongs in her lap.

That Hillary turned her back on the Democratic Majority, crossed the aisle, and helped Bush and the Republicans get their WAR on Iraq is beyond any doubt or argument.

Do your homework, and maybe all this WILL start making sense to you. Nothing makes sense in a vacuum.

As I said, there is nothing wrong with voting for a woman. I support many women in our government, and some progressive women that are running for office, and will vote for them and support them given a the opportunity.

Yes is is OK to vote for women...
It is NOT OK to vote for a woman just because she is a woman.

After all, Michele Bachmann, Sarah Palin, Kay Bailey Hutchison, and "Mean Jean" Schmidt are women too.

[LanternWaste]

22. Considering your premise, your conclusion and your logical fallacies

"Sometimes these posts don't make any sense.

Considering your premise, your conclusion and your logical fallacies, you may be onto something. Take a hint from Pogo, though... it may assist you in the long run.

[Armstead]

28. Slooooooowly........She made bad decisions as an office holder

The results of bad decisions are what matter -- not the gender of the person making them.

If those bad decisions include the death, suffering and suppression of woman.....the person making those decisions owns them, regardless of gender.

[procon]

19. You never once mentioned American women.

I commend you on your selective concern for women in other countries while studiously omitting all her many accomplishments on behalf of women around the world. I know why you did that, so any conversation with you is limited. That said, complaints like yours about women's cultural images and the unreasonable expectations put on Hillary Clinton to perform unilateral miracles to roll back time and single handedly dismantle authoritarian regimes paint her as some sort of a mythical Super Woman.

Hillary Clinton is the best candidate for women equality -- not simply because she is one -- but because she holds the strongest and most consistent record of effectively championing women’s rights, economically, socially and politically, and that makes her the country’s first formidable female president... a Super Woman, indeed!

[Armstead]

31. What about American poor women who had public assistance yanked out from under them?

Forced to get shitty minimum wage jobs and suffer financial penalties because of "welfare reform" which she championed?

How about the abuse of women through the globe as a result of the business practices of Corporate Oligarchs, which have also snatched jobs from American workers -- including women workers -- and marginalized wages and benefits?

[bvar22]

39. Go back and read it again, this time pay attention.

The "Welfare to Work" Act, supported and praised by Hillary hurt ONLY American women.

What is wrong with advocating for Women of other Nations and Color?
Do they somehow not count in your book.

Neither The Hillary Campaign, nor her supporters, have ever limited their claims of Advocating for only American Women.

Perhaps you can list some of her successful achievements around the World where she has been effective in fighting for Women's rights of ALL nations and colors,
and we can weigh that against all the dead and maimed women and their destroyed families
and arrive at a balance sheet.

I have paid attention....so I already know which way that balance swings.
IS helping the Women of Wall Street and Corporations Increasing their profits going to help the woman living in poverty down the road from me?

You said"
[font color=red]"she holds the strongest and most consistent record of effectively championing women’s rights, economically, socially and politically,"[/font]

Well, she talks a good game. but when she was the Senator from New York, what did she do to "champion" Women's rights?

What has she really done beyond lip service during campaign season?
Hillary has spent her career "helping" only one woman...Hillary.

[procon]

44. Yep, nothing gets a woman's attention like a man telling her, to "pay attention!"

And the worst part is, you still think you're not part of the problem.

[bvar22]

123. a duck, dodge, and the gender card!

I had no idea of your gender when I replied to your post,
and it still doesn't matter to me. Being wrong is not gender specific and has no bias.
I will hold you to the same standards as everyone else here.

[procon]

124. When you throw out a rightwing trope like "gender card",

your whole shopworn argument goes up in smoke. Our gender must matter to you a great deal because you're trying to segregate women as though we are only allowed that one dimensional context. Stop looking at women as merely gender specific beings, it's not a "standard" to be proud of. It is a familiar tactic that we've seen many times before to "other" groups of people for disapproval. Reducing women to their component parts makes it easier to discriminate against us, to discount us as venal and frivolous.

Hillary represents an enormous shift of power that will bring women's issues, women's equality and rights, to the forefront. Hurrah for us! I can see how that might make you feel a tad insecure. Well, welcome to what women have endured for all the eons of human existence; you'll get used to it, trust me, you will.

[bvar22]

126. Wow. Nothing but baseless assumptions.

"Hillary represents an enormous shift of power"....from Wall Street and the 1% to Wall Street and the 1%...
...from the policies that destroyed the Working Class to the same policies that destroyed the Working Class....
...from the policies that hurt millions of poor women to the same policies that hurt poor women....
..from the policies that sent our children to WAR and killed women and children around the globe to the policies that send our children to WAR and kill women and children around the globe.

The "NO. We. Can't" campaign does not represent any major shift beyond lip service.

[jack_krass]

55. What about American women who had husbands and fathers locked up by the Crime bill Hillary hawked*

*intended as constructive criticism

[seabeyond]

61. The crime bill Sanders voted for?

[jack_krass]

71. I knew someone would say that. One of his few mistakes.

Hillary however was instrumental in selling the bill*, using racist dog whissles as a sales pitch*. Bernie expressed regret, but stupidly signed it anyway.

*meant as constructive criticism

[seabeyond]

87. Even as First Lady she was more powerful than the fuckin' elected congressman that voted. Lol

[Florencenj2point0]

78. some women in Libya

others, not so much

[BreakfastClub]

14. Amen!! Thank you for standing up. Pay no attention to the naysayers. They've been

steeped in the patriarchy from the day they were born. Girls and women need a role model, and Hillary is the best one I can imagine. Her nomination and (hopefully) her presidency will change the lives of millions of girls and women around the world.

Women's Rights Are Human Rights
Women's Rights Are Human Rights

[procon]

34. Yes they are!

I don't want to see another generation of little girls (or little boys) struck with gender specific roles or valued just for their beauty. I want girls to strong, bold, brave, outspoken and smart. Let them desire to be the commanding general of the backyard fort, or the boss of the grocery store on the porch, the captain of the tennis team, and now she can be the president, too!

[leftynyc]

17. I saw the perfect button for you

(and for me) - it said I'm not voting for HIllary because she's a woman, I'm voting for her because I'M a woman.

[seabeyond]

25. Ohhhh, nice. Nt

[procon]

36. I LIKE that! nt

[Cobalt Violet]

29. I would never vote for someone because of their gender.

I go by how they treat or would treat the most vulnerable. I don't have high hopes for her.

[leftofcool]

42. Well, then I suppose you will be leaving DU?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. Voting for someone because of gender is the same as voting against someone because of gender.

I voted for a woman in 2012 for president, not because she's a woman, but because her policies and principles most represent mine.

[procon]

48. Likewise, I also voted for a woman,

not just because she supports my key issues, but also because she does so from a woman's unique perspective. Unlike many other countries, we've never had the opportunity to see women and their chief concerns elevated to the center stage. Now we will, and I'm anticipating great things will happen.

[SheenaR]

35. It is not ok to vote for someone based on their gender, race, religion, etc.

If that is the SOLE reason you are voting for them

Otherwise, you do you. Go for it

[Eric J in MN]

38. If the nominees were Carly Fiorina and Bernie Sanders

...would you vote for Fiorina?

[procon]

53. Its a nonsequitor.

Carly Fiorina is a Republican.

And Bernie Sanders lost.

I can't be more specific than that.

[Eric J in MN]

60. It's a hypothetical but not a nonsequitor.

Fiorina and Sanders lost, but they each sought their respective party's nominations this year.

[azurnoir]

66. Is that latin for don't want to answer?

[athena]

109. The candidate is not Carly Fiorina.

No one here is talking about voting for Carly Fiorina because she's a woman. We're talking about voting for a woman who has decades of political experience and has devoted her life to fighting for women's rights because she's a woman.

In other words, voting for Hillary because she's a woman does not mean voting for her only because she's a woman. No one votes for anyone only because of their gender. No one. Not even women, who some people here seem view as second-class citizens who can't hold two overlapping ideas in our head at the same time.

[Eric J in MN]

111. I asked the OP whom she'd choose in a hypothetical election.

If you've concluded from that question that I think women are "second-class citizens" then you're mistaken about me.

[procon]

113. That is the perception you leave behind with every comment you've made, yeah?

We know you only by your words, and nothing you've written in this thread demonstrates one iota of awareness or understanding of the issues that matter to women, and why we see Hillary as a fighter, as someone who finally "gets it", and will be our best (last?) hope to achieve full equality.

Looking at your words, no one will ever believe that you do not view women as second-class citizens. Should we not believe our lyin' eyes and just skip past all of your repetitious remarks belittling women, reducing the majority of the entire population of this country to the level of livestock, valued for nothing more than our anatomical parts.

[Eric J in MN]

115. You're the one who voted for a warmonger because she's a woman. NT

NT

[NCTraveler]

40. Huge K&R

[senz]

47. As good a reason as any.

[senz]

49. The ONLY DECENT WOMAN I know of who ran for POTUS.

I'd vote for her in a heartbeat. She was brave, she was good, she stood for something.

Hill doesn't come within a thousand miles.

[Haveadream]

54. Shirley Chisholm is the ONLY decent woman who ever ran for President!!??

Attitudes like yours are why no women have ever been elected.

[senz]

56. Like I said, she's the only one I know of. We sure could use more like her.

[procon]

57. And also why so few women get into politics at all.

There will always be the naysayers from the OTHER side, but now we must content with these men who say they are Democrats while holding themselves out as the arbitrary judges and critics of women. Womem in politics, women activists, assertive women (all women?) are found wanting, less than meets their perfect ideal.

[qdouble]

52. There hasn't been a woman president since this country was founded even though their 50% of the..

population. If someone wants to feel proud or excited about voting for a woman, let them. It's ridiculous to ask them not to be. That they wouldn't want to vote for Palin or any other terrible candidate should go without saying, unless you're be intentionally obtuse.

[PaulaFarrell]

59. what century did you gtow up in?

Because I'm 55 and I can't relate to a single thing you've written

[msanthrope]

64. I won't vote my vagina the day it doesn't matter that I have one. nt

[Florencenj2point0]

72. Damn right and my vagina agrees

with you too!

[tabasco]

73. By that logic,

it's okay to vote for Trump because he's a male.

[procon]

85. Sure, you can vote for Trump for any reason you like,

although his complete disinterest, like yours, in advancing women's rights and equality issues has little relevance in a thread about the unique opportunity that President Hillary Clinton brings to the whole sisterhood of women.

[tabasco]

93. Nowhere did I infer that I am voting for Trump

and you know nothing about my interest "in advancing women's rights and equality issues."

Voting for a candidate based solely on their gender is stupid.

Your thought process appears illogical.

[panader0]

82. Bernie is sexist and a misogynist!

[procon]

86. That makes me very sad. nt

[seabeyond]

89. Just not insightful, out dated and a refusal to listen

[niyad]

92. k and r

[marions ghost]

94. If she is elected

you will soon forget about about all this rosy manna that will fall from heaven for women and girls. It's a complete illusion.

Hillary governs like a not very progressive man. That is her record. And that is what she'll do (if elected, a big if).

After all we've been through in the past decades-- at this point, "woman president" -- is secondary. There is so much at stake. And many more ways to provide role models for girls --there are women who represent much better values, and deserve to have the highest roles in government. Hillary is propped up by vested interests.

[coco77]

99. Yay! Woman power!!!

I'm still not voting for her..

[Skid Rogue]

101. I'm voting for Hillary...

because I believe she'll make a great president.

I'm also celebrating, jumping up and down, dancing, cheering the fact that she's a woman.

[tymorial]

102. I will vote for and support Clinton because she is the democratic candidate

Her gender is irrelevant.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

103. I applaude you. There are many people who can't own it. Some I've interacted with feign disbelief

that this would be any woman's top priority, or that a PAC like Emily's List could possibly exist.

Everyone has a top priority. Mine is economics and I liked Bernie's vision. On that note, now I wonder how I would have voted in 2008 had I known Obama was going to abandon his platform for Clinton's even prior to Inauguration Day. That REALLY pissed me off, and he proved he wasn't up to the task his first couple of years. I'll vote for platform over experience, but that's not to minimize experience. Right now, I have to wait and see. No politician does what they say they plan to do, so that gives me hope lol I'm not on autopilot simply because there's a Democrat in office. I evaluate along the way. Hillary's first test for me is who she chooses to surround herself with.

[whistler162]

104. Sounds like the same reasoning/logic(?) people

use to not vote for SoS Clinton.

[zappaman]

120. I'm gonna vote for the person who is the most qualified.

It's a woman?
Cool.

[ButterflyBlood]

134. Im going to vote for the most progressive candidate

Regardless of race or gender.

In the primary that was Bernie Sanders.

In November that will be Hillary Clinton.

[bigtree]

135. k&r

[Vote2016]

141. OK? Is there any other reason besides (1) a female president is overdue and (2) Hillary isn't Trump?

For me, that is 100% of her appeal.

Bad news for Hillary - Jill Stein is also a woman, who isn't Trump, and who has the added benefit of being progressive (unfortunately, Jill can't and won't win).

[procon]

142. You mean besides our autonomy, equality, justice, fairness, parity and rights? nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

143. Who knew it was that easy?

Oh how I mourn my misspent youth learning about civics and issues and examining my belief systems!

From now on, I'm turning off c-span and turning on The View.