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Sat Jun 11, 2016, 10:39 PM

Bringing us together! Another neocon endorses Clinton, calling her “2016’s real conservative”

Holy crap. The list of right wingers hankering for Hillary is sickening. Read the article for more of the sad details, unless you're hoping to get to sleep tonight. Brief bios of those neocons who sense the presumptive Democratic nominee is one of them can be found here.

https://www.salon.com/2016/06/10/another_neocon_endorses_clinton_calling_her_2016s_real_conservative_and_the_candidate_of_the_status_quo/

FRIDAY, JUN 10, 2016 02:30 PM EDT
Another neocon endorses Clinton, calling her “2016’s real conservative” and “the candidate of the status quo”
Neocon James Kirchick joins a slew of right-wing pundits who support war hawk Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump
BEN NORTON

<edit>

“Clinton is the candidate of the status quo, something that conservatives, by definition, are supposed to uphold,” Kirchick writes.

“Hillary Clinton is the one person standing between America and the abyss,” he says, seeing her as a mealymouthed centrist candidate with “better conservative credentials” than the alternatives.

<edit>

Kirchick is a hawkish pundit and fellow at Foreign Policy Initiative, a neoconservative think tank where leading neocons Bill Kristol and Robert Kagan sit on the board of directors.

Kagan, who served as foreign policy adviser to Republican Sen. John McCain in his 2008 presidential campaign and has been described as “the neoconservative movement’s chief foreign policy theorist,” has also strongly come out in support of Clinton.

more...

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Reply Bringing us together! Another neocon endorses Clinton, calling her “2016’s real conservative” (Original post)
Karmadillo Jun 2016 OP
yeoman6987 Jun 2016 #1
oberliner Jun 2016 #15
yeoman6987 Jun 2016 #17
oberliner Jun 2016 #20
Zynx Jun 2016 #35
Recursion Jun 2016 #49
swhisper1 Jun 2016 #31
oberliner Jun 2016 #36
Voice for Peace Jun 2016 #44
oberliner Jun 2016 #47
Matt_R Jun 2016 #51
Pharaoh Jun 2016 #63
yurbud Jun 2016 #65
think Jun 2016 #2
Zorro Jun 2016 #3
PufPuf23 Jun 2016 #4
think Jun 2016 #5
Glamrock Jun 2016 #16
demwing Jun 2016 #23
Voice for Peace Jun 2016 #45
Zorro Jun 2016 #62
Triana Jun 2016 #6
chwaliszewski Jun 2016 #8
Zorro Jun 2016 #13
swhisper1 Jun 2016 #27
oberliner Jun 2016 #29
Hekate Jun 2016 #39
azurnoir Jun 2016 #43
Arkana Jun 2016 #32
swhisper1 Jun 2016 #33
jwirr Jun 2016 #71
oberliner Jun 2016 #7
think Jun 2016 #10
oberliner Jun 2016 #11
think Jun 2016 #14
oberliner Jun 2016 #18
think Jun 2016 #19
oberliner Jun 2016 #22
Arazi Jun 2016 #37
oberliner Jun 2016 #40
Arazi Jun 2016 #41
oberliner Jun 2016 #42
Arazi Jun 2016 #48
TwilightZone Jun 2016 #9
Tarc Jun 2016 #12
Cali_Democrat Jun 2016 #21
bigtree Jun 2016 #30
Recursion Jun 2016 #50
workinclasszero Jun 2016 #66
Barack_America Jun 2016 #24
leftofcool Jun 2016 #57
Barack_America Jun 2016 #59
jack_krass Jun 2016 #25
elleng Jun 2016 #26
bigtree Jun 2016 #28
HooptieWagon Jun 2016 #34
Hekate Jun 2016 #38
Voice for Peace Jun 2016 #46
MFM008 Jun 2016 #52
Kip Humphrey Jun 2016 #53
Scuba Jun 2016 #54
Warren Stupidity Jun 2016 #55
John Poet Jun 2016 #56
Karmadillo Jun 2016 #61
pampango Jun 2016 #58
coco77 Jun 2016 #60
brooklynite Jun 2016 #70
coco77 Jun 2016 #72
Live and Learn Jun 2016 #64
amborin Jun 2016 #67
Florencenj2point0 Jun 2016 #68
brooklynite Jun 2016 #69
wyldwolf Jun 2016 #73

Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 10:43 PM

1. She's a bit right to trump on a few things but still voting for her

 

She 75 percent to trump 25 percent. He's to her left on trade and war (although who knows really on war).

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:22 PM

15. Trump is not to the left of her on trade or on war

 

Trump has no consistent positions of any kind on any issue.

He has suggested nuclear proliferation should be expanded throughout Asia and that he would destroy ISIS but won't tell anyone how.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #15)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:25 PM

17. I am not going to argue trade but he wants to bring jobs back from bad trade

 

agreements and rip up all trade agreements. Hillary won't do that.

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #17)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:28 PM

20. No, he doesn't

 

He doesn't have any such position on trade.

He says "I'm going to make great deals" and that is the extent of it.

He doesn't know anything about any trade agreements, what they mean, how they can be changed.

The only thing on his website having anything to do with trade is with respect to China, and I am quite confident he does not even understand what is posted there.

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #17)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:02 AM

35. That's what he claims. Would he actually? Probably not.

He loves cheap labor.

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #17)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:34 AM

49. No he doesn't, but his supporters are stupid enough to think that's a meaningful thing to say

Which it isn't; manufacturing jobs are never "coming back". Even if manufacturing plant and facilities "come back" it won't employ very many people at all.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #15)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:54 PM

31. he would leave that up to the experts on Fox to advise him

 

His only experience is making deals, right? He is left of her in trade and he is ignorant on wars, stupid in fact on all other topics

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Response to swhisper1 (Reply #31)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:02 AM

36. No he wouldn't

 

He doesn't roll that way. Nobody tells Donald Trump want to think.

He is ignorant on all subjects and will stay that way.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #15)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:04 AM

44. she has consistent positions?

 

really?

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Response to Voice for Peace (Reply #44)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:22 AM

47. Trump has no positions

 

He doesn't know anything about any of the issues and has not thought particularly deeply about a single one of them.

Hillary certainly has her inconsistencies, but she can espouse coherent and thoughtful positions on the issues of the day.

Trump is unable to do this and appears disinterested in trying.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #47)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:52 AM

51. Trump is the realty show candidate, this generations American Idol star

Trump is also the bumper sticker slogan candidate. That is what Clinton is up against.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #47)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:17 PM

63. ^^this^^

 

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #1)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:21 PM

65. that's the problem. Hillary will likely start a war, maybe even a World War.

Trump may or may not, but would royally fuck it up in any case.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 10:52 PM

2. With Hillary's foreign policy record this not too surprising unfortunately...

 

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 10:53 PM

3. It's great having Republicans defect to support Clinton

Don't you think so?

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Response to Zorro (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 10:57 PM

4. Note that Robert Kagan's wife is Victoria Nuland.

Victoria Nuland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland

During the Bill Clinton administration, Nuland was chief of staff to Deputy Secretary of State Strobe Talbott before moving on to serve as deputy director for former Soviet Union affairs.

She served as the principal deputy foreign policy adviser to Vice President Dick Cheney and then as U.S. ambassador to NATO.

Nuland became special envoy for Conventional Armed Forces in Europe and then became State Department spokesperson in summer 2011.[5]

She was nominated to serve as Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs in May 2013 and sworn in to fill that role in September 2013.[6] During her confirmation hearings, she faced "sharp questions" about a memo she had sent outlining the talking points that would be used by the Obama administration in the days shortly after the 2012 Benghazi attack.[7]

In her role as Assistant Secretary, she has been the lead U.S. point person for the Ukrainian crisis. She was a key figure in establishing loan guarantees to Ukraine, including a $1 billion loan guarantee in 2014, and the provisions of non-lethal assistance to the Ukrainian military and border guard.[8][9] Along with Secretary of State John Kerry and Secretary of Defense Ash Carter, she is seen as a leading supporter of defensive weapons delivery to Ukraine

edit: oops was supposed to be posted to OP.

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Response to PufPuf23 (Reply #4)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 10:58 PM

5. Thank you for posting. /nt

 

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Response to Zorro (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:23 PM

16. I do, I do

I tremble at the fact that they are calling her one of their own however.

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Response to Zorro (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:30 PM

23. Pssst... They're not defecting

 

They're implying Hillary has

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Response to Zorro (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:06 AM

45. sure while progressives and liberals aka democrats

 

continue to object to her policies & record and become less and less interested in voting for her..

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Response to Voice for Peace (Reply #45)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:58 PM

62. Lots of progressive liberal Democrats will be voting for Clinton and her policies

Those who adamantly refuse to vote for her closely resemble the Republican Party leaders who swore to oppose Obama on everything at the beginning of his first term.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:03 PM

6. Is it time to say "I told you so" yet?

 



HRC, the Dem establishment, et al can't be bothered to court PROGRESSIVES and in fact mock them most of the time, but they always welcome neocons into the fold.

Sort of tells you the Dem Party has pretty much lost its way and become Republican Lite.

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Response to Triana (Reply #6)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:17 PM

8. Don't forget: we have to stop bashing the presumptive nominee otherwise...

we're only helping Trump and will be banished.

"Won't you tell me.....where have all the good Dems gone? Where have all the good Dems gone?"

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Response to chwaliszewski (Reply #8)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:21 PM

13. Gone to support Clinton, every one

When will you ever learn?

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Response to Triana (Reply #6)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:50 PM

27. this indicated thusly, yes

 

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Response to Triana (Reply #6)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:52 PM

29. HRC does court progressives

 

In fact, she made a point of specifically reaching out to Bernie Sanders supporters and encouraging them to support her campaign.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #29)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:07 AM

39. And she has hired a bunch of Bernie's operatives that he laid off.

But I suppose that's a real bad thing too.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #39)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:01 AM

43. yes indeed in fact there was a Politico article by one of them

it was really popular around here

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Response to Triana (Reply #6)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:56 PM

32. I don't recall Hillary courting any of these people.

They're walking backward into her campaign because Trump is so over-the-top offensive.

Farrakhan endorsed Obama in 2008, but I didn't hold that against him.

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Response to Triana (Reply #6)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:57 PM

33. you are speaking to the brainwashed

 

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Response to Triana (Reply #6)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:38 PM

71. Just about time. I so look forward to saying "I told you so."

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:16 PM

7. Ben Norton wrote this article

 

He is ridiculous.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:19 PM

10. Are the quotes from the neocon pundit not accurate? Is that what you're claiming?

 

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Response to think (Reply #10)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:20 PM

11. The spin is what is silly

 

The more Republicans who decide to vote for Hillary, the better.

Bernie also made a point of saying how he wanted to appeal to Republicans as well as Democrats and Independents.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:22 PM

14. It's pretty obvious Hillary's foreign policy appeals to neocons. It's not a secret....

 

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Response to think (Reply #14)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:25 PM

18. Her not being dangerously unqualified like Trump appeals to most rational people

 

If the Republicans had nominated any of the others in the field, they would line up behind that person.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #18)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:28 PM

19. No. Robert Kagan said he wouldn't support Cruz either. These are hard core neocons. Not just

 

Republicans.

These are the people who pushed for and got the Iraq war. They know a hawk when they see one...

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Response to think (Reply #19)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:30 PM

22. Well that's good

 

Cruz said he would made the sand glow, so he is certainly a war hawk in every sense of the word.

The fact that anyone in America could support Cruz or Trump is disturbing.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #22)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:04 AM

37. Hillary's no fly zone proposal in Syria ensures war with Russia

2 nuclear powers at war in the ME. Hillary will certainly make the sand glow

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Response to Arazi (Reply #37)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:11 AM

40. No it doesn't

 

It's just a proposal.

I realize some people seem keen on allowing the Russian military to bomb Syria unimpeded, but not everyone is on board with that approach.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #40)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:21 AM

41. Absolutely it does.Every foreign policy expert agrees on that

The Russian military WILL prop up Assad to keep their only ME port.

Anything that gets in the way of keeping their guy Assad in power (and keeping their port) will lead to a confrontation. Hillary loves this. More $$$ for her and her warhawk friends. WW3 has enormou$ potential

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Response to Arazi (Reply #41)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:55 AM

42. No it doesn't

 

There is not going to be a nuclear war between the US and Russia over a no-fly zone proposal.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #42)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:30 AM

48. 40 years of cold war proves a nuke fest isn't necessary for complete devastation

Proxy wars are equally hideous.

You own the coming bloodshed.

All of you

Drenched in blood

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:18 PM

9. Ben Norton? lol

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:21 PM

12. It speaks more to Trump's narcissistic fascism than anything to do with Hillary

There are GOP'ers with a tiny shred of decency that just can't support that comb-over orangutan under any circumstances.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:28 PM

21. Weren't Bernie supporters previously crowing about how Bernie had cross over appeal?

 

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #21)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:53 PM

30. can't make up their minds

...now up to bashing people for rejecting trump and Hillary for attracting a constituency that NO candidate can win the presidency without.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #21)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:35 AM

50. Odd, isn't it? (nt)

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #21)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:26 PM

66. Bernie getting republicans to cross over = good, great, will build an unstoppable coalition...etc.

 

Hillary getting republicans to cross over = bad, horrible, sickening, the end of the world as we know it...etc.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:32 PM

24. This won't phase many of her supporters here...

...sadly.

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Response to Barack_America (Reply #24)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 08:46 AM

57. Wasn't it Bernie who said he had crossover appeal?

.......sadly.

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #57)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 09:16 AM

59. Yeah, but his policies don't cross-over.

That's the difference.

She has crossover appeal because some of her policies appeal to Republicans.

Sanders (a socialist!) has crossover appeal because HE appeals to Republicans.

That is true crossover appeal. Appealing to Neocons because you have a neocon foreign policy doesn't count.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:46 PM

25. How many days? Where is colonel count?

 

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:48 PM

26. “Clinton is the candidate of the status quo, something that conservatives, by definition,

are supposed to uphold,”

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:51 PM

28. it's a measure of how extremely bad Trump is

...and Hillary doesn't have much to do with the expressions of support, other than being sane.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:01 AM

34. If I was a conservative Republican, I'd be excited to vote for Hillary.

 

She's a strong advocate of Reaganism.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:04 AM

38. I read that half of Sanders' supporters will vote for Trump rather than Hillary! I read it...

...on the internet, so it's definitely true! And shocking! And disgusting! It means Bernie is complicit!

Or some godsdam thing.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:08 AM

46. OH HOGWASH this is just RW propaganda

 

spreading terrible lies about our hillary

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:56 AM

52. Just a way to spark

An argument between democrats.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 07:51 AM

53. Neocons just love them some fellow neocons.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 08:09 AM

54. Will factual articles like this be banned on Thursday?

 

Will Salon be considered right wing? Will Rolling Stone? The Progressive?

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Response to Scuba (Reply #54)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 08:26 AM

55. Why would an article about somebody endorsing Clinton be banned?

 

But you could be right. The rules are unclear.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 08:43 AM

56. Why don't we just nominate George W.'s brother?

 

That's essentially what we're getting.




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Response to John Poet (Reply #56)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:40 PM

61. And in the twofer, we would get W's "brother from another mother."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/nov/13/george-w-bush-responds-bill-clinton-tweet-brotherf/

George W. Bush calls Bill Clinton "brother from another mother."

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 09:07 AM

58. "seeing her as a mealymouthed centrist candidate". Damning with faint praise.

Trump is “a brashly authoritarian populist,” Kirchick continues — a “charlatan, a gruesome amalgamation of the Monopoly Man and Elmer Gantry,” who is transforming “the Republican Party into an ethno-nationalist populist movement.”

“Hillary Clinton does not believe that NATO, the most successful military alliance in world history and a guarantor of peace and security on a continent marred by war, is obsolete; Trump does,”

Trump, on the other hand, is the “control alt delete candidate.”


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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 09:25 AM

60. I have noticed for months now ...

 

how Nicolle Wallace has been so angry with Bernie supporters. The only conclusion I can come to is that she is a Hillary supporter.

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Response to coco77 (Reply #60)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:33 PM

70. Nicole Wallace is a Republican commentator

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #70)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:38 PM

72. I know.

 

and many will vote for Hillary.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:21 PM

64. If I were one, I would support her too. But I am not, so I won't. nt

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:09 PM

68. GREAT!

Let them all vote for her and find out differently. =)

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:04 PM

69. tick, tick, tick...

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:49 PM

73. ah, it seems like yesterday Bernie followers were gleeful over Republicans supporting Bernie

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