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Karmadillo

(9,253 posts)
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 10:39 PM Jun 2016

Bringing us together! Another neocon endorses Clinton, calling her “2016’s real conservative”

Holy crap. The list of right wingers hankering for Hillary is sickening. Read the article for more of the sad details, unless you're hoping to get to sleep tonight. Brief bios of those neocons who sense the presumptive Democratic nominee is one of them can be found here.

https://www.salon.com/2016/06/10/another_neocon_endorses_clinton_calling_her_2016s_real_conservative_and_the_candidate_of_the_status_quo/

FRIDAY, JUN 10, 2016 02:30 PM EDT
Another neocon endorses Clinton, calling her “2016’s real conservative” and “the candidate of the status quo”
Neocon James Kirchick joins a slew of right-wing pundits who support war hawk Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump
BEN NORTON

<edit>

“Clinton is the candidate of the status quo, something that conservatives, by definition, are supposed to uphold,” Kirchick writes.

“Hillary Clinton is the one person standing between America and the abyss,” he says, seeing her as a mealymouthed centrist candidate with “better conservative credentials” than the alternatives.

<edit>

Kirchick is a hawkish pundit and fellow at Foreign Policy Initiative, a neoconservative think tank where leading neocons Bill Kristol and Robert Kagan sit on the board of directors.

Kagan, who served as foreign policy adviser to Republican Sen. John McCain in his 2008 presidential campaign and has been described as “the neoconservative movement’s chief foreign policy theorist,” has also strongly come out in support of Clinton.

more...

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Bringing us together! Another neocon endorses Clinton, calling her “2016’s real conservative” (Original Post) Karmadillo Jun 2016 OP
She's a bit right to trump on a few things but still voting for her yeoman6987 Jun 2016 #1
Trump is not to the left of her on trade or on war oberliner Jun 2016 #15
I am not going to argue trade but he wants to bring jobs back from bad trade yeoman6987 Jun 2016 #17
No, he doesn't oberliner Jun 2016 #20
That's what he claims. Would he actually? Probably not. Zynx Jun 2016 #35
No he doesn't, but his supporters are stupid enough to think that's a meaningful thing to say Recursion Jun 2016 #49
he would leave that up to the experts on Fox to advise him swhisper1 Jun 2016 #31
No he wouldn't oberliner Jun 2016 #36
she has consistent positions? Voice for Peace Jun 2016 #44
Trump has no positions oberliner Jun 2016 #47
Trump is the realty show candidate, this generations American Idol star Matt_R Jun 2016 #51
^^this^^ Pharaoh Jun 2016 #63
that's the problem. Hillary will likely start a war, maybe even a World War. yurbud Jun 2016 #65
With Hillary's foreign policy record this not too surprising unfortunately... think Jun 2016 #2
It's great having Republicans defect to support Clinton Zorro Jun 2016 #3
Note that Robert Kagan's wife is Victoria Nuland. PufPuf23 Jun 2016 #4
Thank you for posting. /nt think Jun 2016 #5
I do, I do Glamrock Jun 2016 #16
Pssst... They're not defecting demwing Jun 2016 #23
sure while progressives and liberals aka democrats Voice for Peace Jun 2016 #45
Lots of progressive liberal Democrats will be voting for Clinton and her policies Zorro Jun 2016 #62
Is it time to say "I told you so" yet? Triana Jun 2016 #6
Don't forget: we have to stop bashing the presumptive nominee otherwise... chwaliszewski Jun 2016 #8
Gone to support Clinton, every one Zorro Jun 2016 #13
this indicated thusly, yes swhisper1 Jun 2016 #27
HRC does court progressives oberliner Jun 2016 #29
And she has hired a bunch of Bernie's operatives that he laid off. Hekate Jun 2016 #39
yes indeed in fact there was a Politico article by one of them azurnoir Jun 2016 #43
I don't recall Hillary courting any of these people. Arkana Jun 2016 #32
you are speaking to the brainwashed swhisper1 Jun 2016 #33
Just about time. I so look forward to saying "I told you so." jwirr Jun 2016 #71
Ben Norton wrote this article oberliner Jun 2016 #7
Are the quotes from the neocon pundit not accurate? Is that what you're claiming? think Jun 2016 #10
The spin is what is silly oberliner Jun 2016 #11
It's pretty obvious Hillary's foreign policy appeals to neocons. It's not a secret.... think Jun 2016 #14
Her not being dangerously unqualified like Trump appeals to most rational people oberliner Jun 2016 #18
No. Robert Kagan said he wouldn't support Cruz either. These are hard core neocons. Not just think Jun 2016 #19
Well that's good oberliner Jun 2016 #22
Hillary's no fly zone proposal in Syria ensures war with Russia Arazi Jun 2016 #37
No it doesn't oberliner Jun 2016 #40
Absolutely it does.Every foreign policy expert agrees on that Arazi Jun 2016 #41
No it doesn't oberliner Jun 2016 #42
40 years of cold war proves a nuke fest isn't necessary for complete devastation Arazi Jun 2016 #48
Ben Norton? lol TwilightZone Jun 2016 #9
It speaks more to Trump's narcissistic fascism than anything to do with Hillary Tarc Jun 2016 #12
Weren't Bernie supporters previously crowing about how Bernie had cross over appeal? Cali_Democrat Jun 2016 #21
can't make up their minds bigtree Jun 2016 #30
Odd, isn't it? (nt) Recursion Jun 2016 #50
Bernie getting republicans to cross over = good, great, will build an unstoppable coalition...etc. workinclasszero Jun 2016 #66
This won't phase many of her supporters here... Barack_America Jun 2016 #24
Wasn't it Bernie who said he had crossover appeal? leftofcool Jun 2016 #57
Yeah, but his policies don't cross-over. Barack_America Jun 2016 #59
How many days? Where is colonel count? jack_krass Jun 2016 #25
“Clinton is the candidate of the status quo, something that conservatives, by definition, elleng Jun 2016 #26
it's a measure of how extremely bad Trump is bigtree Jun 2016 #28
If I was a conservative Republican, I'd be excited to vote for Hillary. HooptieWagon Jun 2016 #34
I read that half of Sanders' supporters will vote for Trump rather than Hillary! I read it... Hekate Jun 2016 #38
OH HOGWASH this is just RW propaganda Voice for Peace Jun 2016 #46
Just a way to spark MFM008 Jun 2016 #52
Neocons just love them some fellow neocons. Kip Humphrey Jun 2016 #53
Will factual articles like this be banned on Thursday? Scuba Jun 2016 #54
Why would an article about somebody endorsing Clinton be banned? Warren Stupidity Jun 2016 #55
Why don't we just nominate George W.'s brother? John Poet Jun 2016 #56
And in the twofer, we would get W's "brother from another mother." Karmadillo Jun 2016 #61
"seeing her as a mealymouthed centrist candidate". Damning with faint praise. pampango Jun 2016 #58
I have noticed for months now ... coco77 Jun 2016 #60
Nicole Wallace is a Republican commentator brooklynite Jun 2016 #70
I know. coco77 Jun 2016 #72
If I were one, I would support her too. But I am not, so I won't. nt Live and Learn Jun 2016 #64
Hillary is the candidate of the war machine amborin Jun 2016 #67
GREAT! Florencenj2point0 Jun 2016 #68
tick, tick, tick... brooklynite Jun 2016 #69
ah, it seems like yesterday Bernie followers were gleeful over Republicans supporting Bernie wyldwolf Jun 2016 #73
 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
1. She's a bit right to trump on a few things but still voting for her
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 10:43 PM
Jun 2016

She 75 percent to trump 25 percent. He's to her left on trade and war (although who knows really on war).

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
15. Trump is not to the left of her on trade or on war
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:22 PM
Jun 2016

Trump has no consistent positions of any kind on any issue.

He has suggested nuclear proliferation should be expanded throughout Asia and that he would destroy ISIS but won't tell anyone how.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
17. I am not going to argue trade but he wants to bring jobs back from bad trade
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:25 PM
Jun 2016

agreements and rip up all trade agreements. Hillary won't do that.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
20. No, he doesn't
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:28 PM
Jun 2016

He doesn't have any such position on trade.

He says "I'm going to make great deals" and that is the extent of it.

He doesn't know anything about any trade agreements, what they mean, how they can be changed.

The only thing on his website having anything to do with trade is with respect to China, and I am quite confident he does not even understand what is posted there.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
49. No he doesn't, but his supporters are stupid enough to think that's a meaningful thing to say
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:34 AM
Jun 2016

Which it isn't; manufacturing jobs are never "coming back". Even if manufacturing plant and facilities "come back" it won't employ very many people at all.

 

swhisper1

(851 posts)
31. he would leave that up to the experts on Fox to advise him
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:54 PM
Jun 2016

His only experience is making deals, right? He is left of her in trade and he is ignorant on wars, stupid in fact on all other topics

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
36. No he wouldn't
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:02 AM
Jun 2016

He doesn't roll that way. Nobody tells Donald Trump want to think.

He is ignorant on all subjects and will stay that way.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
47. Trump has no positions
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:22 AM
Jun 2016

He doesn't know anything about any of the issues and has not thought particularly deeply about a single one of them.

Hillary certainly has her inconsistencies, but she can espouse coherent and thoughtful positions on the issues of the day.

Trump is unable to do this and appears disinterested in trying.

Matt_R

(456 posts)
51. Trump is the realty show candidate, this generations American Idol star
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:52 AM
Jun 2016

Trump is also the bumper sticker slogan candidate. That is what Clinton is up against.

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
65. that's the problem. Hillary will likely start a war, maybe even a World War.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:21 PM
Jun 2016

Trump may or may not, but would royally fuck it up in any case.

PufPuf23

(8,679 posts)
4. Note that Robert Kagan's wife is Victoria Nuland.
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 10:57 PM
Jun 2016

Victoria Nuland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland

During the Bill Clinton administration, Nuland was chief of staff to Deputy Secretary of State Strobe Talbott before moving on to serve as deputy director for former Soviet Union affairs.

She served as the principal deputy foreign policy adviser to Vice President Dick Cheney and then as U.S. ambassador to NATO.

Nuland became special envoy for Conventional Armed Forces in Europe and then became State Department spokesperson in summer 2011.[5]

She was nominated to serve as Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs in May 2013 and sworn in to fill that role in September 2013.[6] During her confirmation hearings, she faced "sharp questions" about a memo she had sent outlining the talking points that would be used by the Obama administration in the days shortly after the 2012 Benghazi attack.[7]

In her role as Assistant Secretary, she has been the lead U.S. point person for the Ukrainian crisis. She was a key figure in establishing loan guarantees to Ukraine, including a $1 billion loan guarantee in 2014, and the provisions of non-lethal assistance to the Ukrainian military and border guard.[8][9] Along with Secretary of State John Kerry and Secretary of Defense Ash Carter, she is seen as a leading supporter of defensive weapons delivery to Ukraine

edit: oops was supposed to be posted to OP.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
45. sure while progressives and liberals aka democrats
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:06 AM
Jun 2016

continue to object to her policies & record and become less and less interested in voting for her..

Zorro

(15,690 posts)
62. Lots of progressive liberal Democrats will be voting for Clinton and her policies
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:58 PM
Jun 2016

Those who adamantly refuse to vote for her closely resemble the Republican Party leaders who swore to oppose Obama on everything at the beginning of his first term.

 

Triana

(22,666 posts)
6. Is it time to say "I told you so" yet?
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:03 PM
Jun 2016


HRC, the Dem establishment, et al can't be bothered to court PROGRESSIVES and in fact mock them most of the time, but they always welcome neocons into the fold.

Sort of tells you the Dem Party has pretty much lost its way and become Republican Lite.

chwaliszewski

(1,514 posts)
8. Don't forget: we have to stop bashing the presumptive nominee otherwise...
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:17 PM
Jun 2016

we're only helping Trump and will be banished.

"Won't you tell me.....where have all the good Dems gone? Where have all the good Dems gone?"

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
29. HRC does court progressives
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:52 PM
Jun 2016

In fact, she made a point of specifically reaching out to Bernie Sanders supporters and encouraging them to support her campaign.

Hekate

(89,977 posts)
39. And she has hired a bunch of Bernie's operatives that he laid off.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:07 AM
Jun 2016

But I suppose that's a real bad thing too.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
43. yes indeed in fact there was a Politico article by one of them
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:01 AM
Jun 2016

it was really popular around here

Arkana

(24,347 posts)
32. I don't recall Hillary courting any of these people.
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:56 PM
Jun 2016

They're walking backward into her campaign because Trump is so over-the-top offensive.

Farrakhan endorsed Obama in 2008, but I didn't hold that against him.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
11. The spin is what is silly
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:20 PM
Jun 2016

The more Republicans who decide to vote for Hillary, the better.

Bernie also made a point of saying how he wanted to appeal to Republicans as well as Democrats and Independents.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
18. Her not being dangerously unqualified like Trump appeals to most rational people
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:25 PM
Jun 2016

If the Republicans had nominated any of the others in the field, they would line up behind that person.

 

think

(11,641 posts)
19. No. Robert Kagan said he wouldn't support Cruz either. These are hard core neocons. Not just
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:28 PM
Jun 2016

Republicans.

These are the people who pushed for and got the Iraq war. They know a hawk when they see one...

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
22. Well that's good
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:30 PM
Jun 2016

Cruz said he would made the sand glow, so he is certainly a war hawk in every sense of the word.

The fact that anyone in America could support Cruz or Trump is disturbing.

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
37. Hillary's no fly zone proposal in Syria ensures war with Russia
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:04 AM
Jun 2016

2 nuclear powers at war in the ME. Hillary will certainly make the sand glow

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
40. No it doesn't
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:11 AM
Jun 2016

It's just a proposal.

I realize some people seem keen on allowing the Russian military to bomb Syria unimpeded, but not everyone is on board with that approach.

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
41. Absolutely it does.Every foreign policy expert agrees on that
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:21 AM
Jun 2016

The Russian military WILL prop up Assad to keep their only ME port.

Anything that gets in the way of keeping their guy Assad in power (and keeping their port) will lead to a confrontation. Hillary loves this. More $$$ for her and her warhawk friends. WW3 has enormou$ potential

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
42. No it doesn't
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:55 AM
Jun 2016

There is not going to be a nuclear war between the US and Russia over a no-fly zone proposal.

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
48. 40 years of cold war proves a nuke fest isn't necessary for complete devastation
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:30 AM
Jun 2016

Proxy wars are equally hideous.

You own the coming bloodshed.

All of you

Drenched in blood

Tarc

(10,471 posts)
12. It speaks more to Trump's narcissistic fascism than anything to do with Hillary
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:21 PM
Jun 2016

There are GOP'ers with a tiny shred of decency that just can't support that comb-over orangutan under any circumstances.

bigtree

(85,813 posts)
30. can't make up their minds
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:53 PM
Jun 2016

...now up to bashing people for rejecting trump and Hillary for attracting a constituency that NO candidate can win the presidency without.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
66. Bernie getting republicans to cross over = good, great, will build an unstoppable coalition...etc.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:26 PM
Jun 2016

Hillary getting republicans to cross over = bad, horrible, sickening, the end of the world as we know it...etc.

Barack_America

(28,876 posts)
59. Yeah, but his policies don't cross-over.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 09:16 AM
Jun 2016

That's the difference.

She has crossover appeal because some of her policies appeal to Republicans.

Sanders (a socialist!) has crossover appeal because HE appeals to Republicans.

That is true crossover appeal. Appealing to Neocons because you have a neocon foreign policy doesn't count.

elleng

(129,800 posts)
26. “Clinton is the candidate of the status quo, something that conservatives, by definition,
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:48 PM
Jun 2016

are supposed to uphold,”

bigtree

(85,813 posts)
28. it's a measure of how extremely bad Trump is
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:51 PM
Jun 2016

...and Hillary doesn't have much to do with the expressions of support, other than being sane.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
34. If I was a conservative Republican, I'd be excited to vote for Hillary.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:01 AM
Jun 2016

She's a strong advocate of Reaganism.

Hekate

(89,977 posts)
38. I read that half of Sanders' supporters will vote for Trump rather than Hillary! I read it...
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:04 AM
Jun 2016

...on the internet, so it's definitely true! And shocking! And disgusting! It means Bernie is complicit!

Or some godsdam thing.

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
54. Will factual articles like this be banned on Thursday?
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 08:09 AM
Jun 2016

Will Salon be considered right wing? Will Rolling Stone? The Progressive?

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
55. Why would an article about somebody endorsing Clinton be banned?
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 08:26 AM
Jun 2016

But you could be right. The rules are unclear.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
58. "seeing her as a mealymouthed centrist candidate". Damning with faint praise.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 09:07 AM
Jun 2016
Trump is “a brashly authoritarian populist,” Kirchick continues — a “charlatan, a gruesome amalgamation of the Monopoly Man and Elmer Gantry,” who is transforming “the Republican Party into an ethno-nationalist populist movement.”

“Hillary Clinton does not believe that NATO, the most successful military alliance in world history and a guarantor of peace and security on a continent marred by war, is obsolete; Trump does,”

Trump, on the other hand, is the “control alt delete candidate.”


 

coco77

(1,327 posts)
60. I have noticed for months now ...
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 09:25 AM
Jun 2016

how Nicolle Wallace has been so angry with Bernie supporters. The only conclusion I can come to is that she is a Hillary supporter.

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