Bernie supporters, a plea. "Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes".

[Barack_America]

I fully understand most of us will get on board and vote for Hillary 5 months from now.

That's fine. Good, even.

But there's no reason to jump on that bandwagon just yet. There's still so much to fight for between now and then, including the soul of the Democratic Party.

Let's at least stay with Bernie through the convention.

Thanks hearing me out. Happy to discuss.

[Cali_Democrat]

1. Bernie will be dropping out before the convention

....as for DU....

Five more days....

[Barack_America]

3. It doesn't matter if Bernie drops out.

If there's going to be a revolution, it belongs to us, not him.

[Cary]

46. "Us"

Pfeh.

[cui bono]

13. Lucky for you we won't stop fighting for you in five days.

We won't EVER stop fighting for you. We are fighting for a better life, a better govt and a better country for EVERYONE and we will never stop.

.

[randome]

23. That's what pretty much everyone on this board wants, too.

Maybe if we all fought together...
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]

[Dustlawyer]

31. It would be nice, but comments like the first one make it more and more difficult.

I will keep tabs on DU through Novemeber, but not interested in a DU that is nothing but an oversized Hillary Clinton group. Especially with the purge that is sure to come.

[randome]

35. There has been too much going overboard from both sides, no doubt about that.

All the hyperbolic accusations -again, from both sides- have made it difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff, and so then most everyone falls into the pattern of reflexively dismissing anything from the other side.

The only way out, imo, is a zen-like dedication to remaining calm no matter what. Also a good dose of self-doubt. When an accusation has a plausible explanation, it's best to move on to something else.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]

[Cary]

47. Too much to ask for

At least I no longer seem to get posts hidden for having the nerve to suggest such a thing.

[cui bono]

48. That would be great, but the problem is the presumptive nominee and supporters stand in the way

of what we are fighting for. We want to fight for no war, no corporate money, no fracking, no TPP... people on here are not fighting for progressive policy anymore when they support a corporate candidate.

Sorry, but that's just the truth. That's why Bernie supporters are so disheartened and saddened. We didn't think the Dem Party would not choose the candidate who best represented the Dem Party's root values and causes.

.

[pangaia]

29. Very, very well said.

[laserhaas]

57. ^^^^^^ This times 10 ^^^^^

[coco77]

27. Ok. five more days...

Do you really think that will shut everyone up so that we can get on to worshipping Hillary. No matter what happens on DU much will be said everywhere which you can't stop.

Also,if she takes office and keeps up that republicon lite garbage she will still face the wrath of many in the Democratic party.

[That Guy 888]

2. I think how many of us vote for Presumptive depends on her.

I agree about having to stay with Bernie through the convention, but I'm more interested in what happens after the convention. Fighting for the Democratic Party or forming a party that excludes the "New Democrat" backstabbers.





Off topic: 6 days until the revenue drops.

[djean111]

4. I won't ever jump on that bandwagon.

The soul of the Democratic Party? it is pushing a candidate who is for war and fracking and cluster bombs and increased H-1B visas and means-testing Social Security instead of raising the cap, and crushing student debt and Third Way slashing of the safety net, and the TPP. To name a few things that look like the fucking GOP platform.
The soul has gone, IMO.

I am ignoring - literally - all the "Bernie, but" OPs. IMO they are just wanna-be bellwethers, trying to herd us as if we were sheep.
Nah.

[lancer78]

11. Support whomever you want

That is your right. All Skinner has asked is that you don't post anything that disparages any democratic candidate or elected official. This includes Sanders as well as Clinton.

[cui bono]

14. This is MUCH bigger than DU. No one cares about Skinner's rules.

It's not going to stop the movement. So be thankful for that.

.

[pangaia]

30. +111,075,739

[amborin]

62. [phone]

[swhisper1]

5. I praise the birth of a movement

[Old Codger]

6. There is really

Nothing that "she" can do to get me to vote for her, the DNC might be able to convince me to be on their side, first dump DWS that would be a good faith effort that I would appreciate and would go a log way toward getting me to vote for her.. And come out against corporate funding of campaigns, vow to fight citizens United..another good step... little things like that can go a long way toward mending some fences for this election cycle... Next one will be much different I think.

[lancer78]

12. The only way to fight Citizens United

is to get a Democrat in the White House so the SCOTUS can reverse itself.

DWS really does need to go.

[djean111]

16. Citizens United is Hillary's friend.

And I sincerely doubt a Hillary SCOTUS appointment will be anywhere near being liberal.

As far as I can tell, thinking a politician who enthusiastically, and in reality, - no campaign blather here - is for war and fracking and the Third Way, to name a few NOT LIBERAL things - is going to magically start being liberal, once in office, is pathetic. And it is more pathetic to think that others will believe that.

CU gave Hillary the ability to amass huge amounts of campaign donations, and huge PACS that do the dirty work, like that disgusting Brock. You think she will give that up? bwahahahahahaha! Tell me another story!

DWS is just a very visible symptom of the Third Way's takeover of the Democratic Party. Before this nasty campaign, if one did not live in Florida, most were not aware that DWS was openly supporting and campaigning for her GOP buddies. The entire membership of the New Democrat Coalition are Third Way advised DINOs. And I am supposed to be naive and stupid enough to think that Hillary is going to do anything liberal, if in office, or that choosing a liberal as VP would make a damned bit of difference.

She and Bill would just finish what they started, or tried to start - gutting welfare, privatizing/weakening Social Security, giving Wall Street free rein, with the added nastiness of a demonstrated fondness for wars. Skinner's rules would not keep me away from DU - it is the prospect of seeing "Democrats" support and even praise what were once considered RW stances on the issues.

[Live and Learn]

43. +10,000 nt

[ancianita]

50. Even as a Berner I just don't want to believe this. I'm wait-and-see about her first three years.

I really do want to believe that, when the patriarchal habit is taken off, she will emerge as the leader she's got the space, time and power to be, and will do some things that will piss off her donors.

[djean111]

51. That's nice that you can sit out the three years.

Anyone who gets involved in war, or loses some Social Security, for example, may beg to differ. Anyone whose water gets poisoned by fracking begs to differ. And so on.

She was the one who had to really push Obama to get involved with Libya, not the other way around.

In any event, we all will vote in the way that our conscience and principles dictate.

[ancianita]

54. I hear you. I sound lazy. But I've never not helped the progressive movement.

We can recriminate her on domestic and foreign policy but that's not going to get us past Trump.

And once she's in the WH I'm not sure to what extent she'll want/need Congressional support and the thousand other things that help a president execute well.

[djean111]

56. You used the word "patriarchal" - sorry, but using gender to excuse things Hillary has done, and

proudly stands for - we are done. I think she will happily go full Third Wau neo-con neo-liberal. I think she is a budding Thatcher.

So - 'bye!

[Vattel]

66. well-said

[TwilightZone]

77. "Citizens United is Hillary's friend"

That is one of the most ridiculous assertions I've ever seen on DU.

You might want to do some research on CU, because you clearly have no knowledge of its history or its target.

[demwing]

7. Im with the revolution

An will stick with Bernie till the revolution =uns out of heads to bonk

[Segami]

8. Don't let them dictate the terms.......on to the convention I say...

.....followed by tens of thousands of Bernie supporters who also have something to say....

[glowing]

36. This video never, never, never gets old of Jimmy... LOL.

[Peachhead22]

9. Right, negotiating 101

If you go into a negotiation and the first thing you say is "Let's make this easy...on you, no matter what your offer, or how bad you treat me, I'm gonna give you exactly what you want". It would be the shortest negotiation in history.

[LostOne4Ever]

10. You got it OP!!! To PHILLY!!!! nt

[pansypoo53219]

15. keep yanking left.

[DCBob]

17. Give it up dude..

the battle is over. Its time to focus on the war.

[Barack_America]

24. I think you've got the battle and war switched.

I am fully focused on the war, which extends well beyond this election.

[DCBob]

25. That's a good point.

But I am focused on the immediate war that culminates in Nov which will no doubt impact the nature of the bigger war going forward.

[Orsino]

18. The revolution is growing.

It's bigger than any candidate, bigger even than the one who bet on us and our abilities. No matter who we nomInate, there are things we need the next president to do. Let's make sure those tnings get done.

[Demsrule86]

20. What revolution?

I see no evidence that this will end any better than occupy did...it takes work to build a coalition.

[Orsino]

71. Sanders' campaign is a part of such a coalition.

Yes, it takes time. It's been growing since Occupy, and suddenly we had a presidential candidate whose campaign emphaDized the same concerns.

The inequality is continuing to grow, and therefore so will the movement. It'll be harder to beat in subsequent elections, and will profoundly influence this one.

[socialist_n_TN]

73. "I see no evidence that this will end any better than occupy did..."............

I assume by this statement you mean that the Democrats will call out the cops to roust, beat, and maybe kill Sanders' supporters? Because that's how Occupy ended.

[Fumesucker]

19. Don't count your money while you're sitting at the table

There's time for counting when the dealings done

It's a poker game not a war (at this point), don't flash your cards at your opponent that's just dumb.

[LWolf]

21. I'm with Bernie.

I'm not ever gonna be with her. That ship sailed back in the 90s.

[840high]

58. You speak for me.

[Renew Deal]

22. I see a certain denialism on the Sanders side

Not by all, but by Bernie and some others. An unwillingness to acknowledge Hillary won. Why does Bernie need a meeting to plan the future of the campaign? There is no future.

There is a willingness to believe in conspiracies, outright lies, and hoping for the worst.

People would relax if Bernie did the right things. End the campaign. Acknowledge Hillary's important and historic victory. Endorse her. And tell his people to support her. Until he does these things he will continue to be a pariah with a growing reputation for not recognizing reality. He's like the Black Night in those Monty Python skits.

[Barack_America]

26. A good number of "his people" will never get with her.

And he's not to blame for that. Our history with her goes well beyond his candidacy.

[Live and Learn]

45. +10,000 nt

[840high]

59. It goes back to Arkansas for me.

[pangaia]

33. I have the impression that you do not even know what this is all about.

It is not so simple as Hillary won or Bernie won or Hillary cheated or didn't cheat, It is a million times bigger than that.

And none of us, NONE of us, really know what is going on......

[socialist_n_TN]

74. Yep, it's bigger than one primary electoral cycle.........

OR at least it had better be. This is the classic class war we're all fighting and it's a struggle we've been losing for decades. And quite frankly, even Bernie isn't enough to win it. Only a REAL revolution will win this war, a social revolution that actually overthrows capitalism as the primary method of organizing society.

[RazBerryBeret]

34. I don't think it's "denialism"

just that we are so close to finally, finally doing something "right"

[Renew Deal]

37. Posting of that graphic is a great example of what I'm talking about

Bernies self righteousness despite the facts.

[RazBerryBeret]

42. whatever makes you feel better

about your decisions. the graphic reinforces that most people, especially politicians don't have the courage to do what is right. they do what is expected, they do what they are paid to do, they say what people want to hear, they focus group their message and their actions.

Self Righteous Despite the Facts... to his supporters he is doing all of this not for himself, but for us. I'm sure he is aware of how much he is bashed but he pushes on.

[Barack_America]

40. So, Bernie supporters should not vote for Hillary?

Careful. What's "right" is very subjective.

I read that and it inspires me to do something different than what you may have intended.

[amborin]

61. Never! She is the antithesis of everything Bernie represents;

wars, regime change, promoting the 1%, corruption, etc.

are you serious?!

[Barack_America]

65. Oh, I think we're a bit crossed up here.

I am not voting for her. Unless she meets my price of course.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027891660

[CrowCityDem]

32. I disagree. Given the depth of the bench, every day past Tuesday reduces his leverage.

[Barack_America]

41. Not if we stay with him.

Or, if not him, the struggle to keep Progressivism alive in the Democratic Party.

Hence, my OP.

[Yurovsky]

38. She doesn't need me...

and her minions have made that abundantly clear. And since she's displayed no desire to change her ways WRT corporate/Wall Street water-carrying, I guess I'll be scarce on DU for the foreseeable future.

I doubt I could speak honestly and openly from a progressive POV without getting banned, so self-imposed exile it is... And seriously, who wants to read the talking points her peeps will be regurgitating for the next 4-8 years?

Tapping out in 4...3...2...

[Barack_America]

39. Are you going...

...to JPR?

That's where I'll be after Tuesday.

[Yurovsky]

75. Thanks for the heads up...

I'm still wondering just how 50.1% of my party completely lost their way and fell in line with the very people that are fucking them over every single day. I know the 1%ers were never going to let the status quo change if they had a voice, and certainly the establishment party and other leadership folks (in labor & various left-leaning NGOs) are really just looking out for themselves.

I'm hoping it's just the last hurrah for the old guard, and that the progressive youth of America seize control of the party. But as you note, we'll no longer be free to discuss that here much longer. Nice to know not everyone will just bend a knee to the corporatists.

[Armstead]

44. Before, during and after

[Demsrule86]

49. After Bernie has admitted he lost and I think it is coming.

What is there to talk about on JPR? Bernie and the glory days of the primary?

[Armstead]

53. Bernie and what he and we stand for are not going away. Get used to it.

I mean in the Big World. I have no clue about DU............. or JPR at this point. I don't go there much.

The issues don't disappear just because one candidate is the nominee.

[VulgarPoet]

72. And these people have the nerve to call themselves our allies.

[Rex]

52. As long as BS has a prominent role in the HRC WH, I will be happy.

I like both of them and as a team they could do a lot. Just look at how the Obama/HRC team worked out very well for America.

[djean111]

68. I don't consider Hillary's work in the Middle East and Latin America good for ANYONE, including

America.

[Silver_Witch]

55. Please fix the headline of your post.

I support Bernie this term referencing violence makes me weep today.

[Barack_America]

60. I wrote this OP yesterday.

[Silver_Witch]

63. Okay - would you still fix it?

[Barack_America]

64. This is a famous revolutionary quote...

...and a call to Bernie supporters to continue the revolution.

I can't "fix" a quote that is over 200 years old.

[bhikkhu]

67. "There is no hope for the aching world except through the narrow and straight path of nonviolence."

That's Gandhi.

There's too many guns and too many gun nuts in this country for me to ever be comfortable associating your quote with progressive reform - wrong message.

[Barack_America]

69. Gandhi is not this country's history. This quote is.

Is that we were born of violent revolution related to what happened in Orlando? Very possibly.

[Alex4Martinez]

70. Any time our behaviors are moderated by acts of madness, they win.

Thank you for leaving it as is.
I'm sorry for the member who is grieving, but it's absurd to ask another member to modify their form of speech on an unrelated topic because a singular work related to fighting oppression evokes something that makes them feel bad.

They can hide the thread, to ask you to change the subject line is just a bit too much to expect.

[B Calm]

76. As long as Bernie is still in the race I'll fully support him.

[NCTraveler]

78. "Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes".

Why is that in quotes? Really ill timed. We gave Palin hell for her crosshair ads.

[Barack_America]

79. It's a famous revolutionary war quote. And you might check the OP's timestamp.

Feel free to hide the OP if you like.

[NCTraveler]

80. Just seems silly. Bloodlust has become a part of our every day.

Sad that such imagery is a part of everyday conversation.

[Barack_America]

82. The quote's not about bloodlust.

It's about being at a strategic disadvantage such that a single piece of ammunition cannot be wasted. Thus, waiting until the very last moment to ensure maximum impact of what you have.

That's the position American revolutionaries found themselves in against the Royal forces, and the same is true now with progressives against the oligarchs.

[BobbyDrake]

81. This subject line is offensive and a borderline call-to-violence.

If you think I want you on my side after you tell others to wait to see the whites if my eyes before attacking me, think again.

[Barack_America]

83. I'm sorry you're not familiar with the history of the Revolutionary War.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3401801258.html

Translation: when resources are scarce, wait to use them.

[BobbyDrake]

84. I know the quote, and your selective interpretation changes nothing.

It's about when to attack with the intent to kill, not about "scarce resources."