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Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:36 AM

What role does anti-semitism play among those opposing Bernie Sanders?

As we reach, sadly from my point of view, the post-mortem stage of the Democratic primary, some posters at DU are discussing whether opposition to Hillary stems from misogyny and racism here. It could be possible among some voters, although her disastrous hawkishness on Iraq and Syria and Honduras, her embrace and unembrace and possible future embrace of the TPP, her proselytizing for fracking, her affection for war criminal Henry Kissinger, and a weariness of the endless distractions that surround the generally conservative Clinton machine, just to list a few reasons, might be better explanations for the opposition to her candidacy to be found among so many left of center sections of the electorate.

One wonders if Bernie, too, has suffered a loss of support not as a result of of his progressive credentials but as a result of one of the age-old hatreds that have plagued humankind. Whether we like it or not, anti-semitism is out there and Bernie is Jewish. It may not be something one likes to acknowledge, but maybe those who recommended that other thread are right and it's better to bring these sorts of issues into the open where scrutiny and discussion can do their job of eroding malign influences in areas where they exist.

http://archive.adl.org/presrele/asus_12/6154_12.html#.V11_SvkrLIV

ADL Poll Finds Anti-Semitic Attitudes on Rise in America

New York, NY, November 3, 2011 … A nationwide survey of the American people released today by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) found that anti-Semitic attitudes have risen slightly in America, demonstrating once again that "anti-Semitic beliefs continue to hold a vice grip" on a small but not insubstantial segment of America.

The ADL survey (.pdf) found that 15 percent of Americans – nearly 35 million adults – hold deeply anti-Semitic views, an increase of 3 percent from a similar poll conducted in 2009, and matching the levels of anti-Semitic propensities recorded in the U.S. in 2005 and 2007. Over the last decade, the highest level of anti-Semitic attitudes was reported in 2002, when an ADL poll found 17 percent of Americans harbored anti-Jewish attitudes.

The 2011 Survey of American Attitudes Toward Jews in America, a national telephone survey of 1,754 adults, was conducted October 13-23 by Marttila Strategies of Washington, D.C. and Boston. The margin of error is +/-2.8 percent.

"Th e fact that anti-Semitic attitudes have increased significantly over the past two years is troubling and raises questions about the impact of broader trends in America – financial insecurity, social uncertainty, the decline in civility and the growth of polarization – on attitudes toward Jews," said Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director. "It is disturbing that with all of the strides we have made in becoming a more tolerant society, anti-Semitic beliefs continue to hold a vicegrip on a small but not insubstantial segment of the American public."

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Reply What role does anti-semitism play among those opposing Bernie Sanders? (Original post)
Karmadillo Jun 2016 OP
apcalc Jun 2016 #1
ljm2002 Jun 2016 #11
jillan Jun 2016 #32
Hortensis Jun 2016 #126
still_one Jun 2016 #2
jillan Jun 2016 #33
still_one Jun 2016 #59
stonecutter357 Jun 2016 #3
Gothmog Jun 2016 #15
kerry-is-my-prez Jun 2016 #24
baldguy Jun 2016 #4
leftofcool Jun 2016 #5
Autumn Jun 2016 #6
JudyM Jun 2016 #17
Autumn Jun 2016 #19
JudyM Jun 2016 #21
kerry-is-my-prez Jun 2016 #35
JudyM Jun 2016 #80
NWCorona Jun 2016 #7
Gothmog Jun 2016 #8
rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #9
Matt_in_STL Jun 2016 #51
rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #63
MattP Jun 2016 #10
Matt_in_STL Jun 2016 #52
Gothmog Jun 2016 #12
QC Jun 2016 #13
Behind the Aegis Jun 2016 #110
Dem2 Jun 2016 #14
Smarmie Doofus Jun 2016 #16
Behind the Aegis Jun 2016 #109
JudyM Jun 2016 #111
amborin Jun 2016 #18
HooptieWagon Jun 2016 #20
Tarc Jun 2016 #22
jillan Jun 2016 #28
Tarc Jun 2016 #41
jillan Jun 2016 #45
Tarc Jun 2016 #48
Major Nikon Jun 2016 #97
Tarc Jun 2016 #98
Marr Jun 2016 #134
NWCorona Jun 2016 #57
Tarc Jun 2016 #60
NWCorona Jun 2016 #62
Ash_F Jun 2016 #105
Tarc Jun 2016 #112
Ash_F Jun 2016 #113
Tarc Jun 2016 #114
Ash_F Jun 2016 #115
Tarc Jun 2016 #116
Ash_F Jun 2016 #117
Tarc Jun 2016 #118
Ash_F Jun 2016 #119
tabasco Jun 2016 #23
MaggieD Jun 2016 #25
jillan Jun 2016 #26
Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2016 #29
jillan Jun 2016 #43
cemaphonic Jun 2016 #69
ecstatic Jun 2016 #75
Arazi Jun 2016 #77
jillan Jun 2016 #89
qdouble Jun 2016 #27
Matt_in_STL Jun 2016 #54
qdouble Jun 2016 #67
Matt_in_STL Jun 2016 #71
Bluenorthwest Jun 2016 #30
NCTraveler Jun 2016 #40
Arazi Jun 2016 #65
JonLeibowitz Jun 2016 #79
NCTraveler Jun 2016 #128
Marr Jun 2016 #135
Scootaloo Jun 2016 #81
NCTraveler Jun 2016 #129
ancianita Jun 2016 #121
Behind the Aegis Jun 2016 #108
QC Jun 2016 #124
swhisper1 Jun 2016 #31
jillan Jun 2016 #36
Mike Nelson Jun 2016 #34
Vinca Jun 2016 #37
jwirr Jun 2016 #46
JI7 Jun 2016 #49
azurnoir Jun 2016 #56
Evergreen Emerald Jun 2016 #38
jillan Jun 2016 #44
Evergreen Emerald Jun 2016 #50
NCTraveler Jun 2016 #39
yurbud Jun 2016 #42
JI7 Jun 2016 #47
Behind the Aegis Jun 2016 #107
Florencenj2point0 Jun 2016 #53
Cheese Sandwich Jun 2016 #55
qdouble Jun 2016 #68
Cheese Sandwich Jun 2016 #76
qdouble Jun 2016 #86
Fumesucker Jun 2016 #85
qdouble Jun 2016 #87
Fumesucker Jun 2016 #91
Autumn Jun 2016 #95
riderinthestorm Jun 2016 #99
leftynyc Jun 2016 #136
Turin_C3PO Jun 2016 #58
Retrograde Jun 2016 #61
Smarmie Doofus Jun 2016 #72
Retrograde Jun 2016 #96
azurnoir Jun 2016 #64
Arazi Jun 2016 #66
KingFlorez Jun 2016 #70
ecstatic Jun 2016 #73
Smarmie Doofus Jun 2016 #84
Lil Missy Jun 2016 #74
Scootaloo Jun 2016 #78
qdouble Jun 2016 #88
Scootaloo Jun 2016 #92
qdouble Jun 2016 #93
Scootaloo Jun 2016 #94
qdouble Jun 2016 #122
Fumesucker Jun 2016 #101
qdouble Jun 2016 #123
jillan Jun 2016 #90
Lord Magus Jun 2016 #100
Fumesucker Jun 2016 #103
riderinthestorm Jun 2016 #106
deathrind Jun 2016 #82
gollygee Jun 2016 #83
Ned_Devine Jun 2016 #102
oberliner Jun 2016 #104
Hekate Jun 2016 #120
laserhaas Jun 2016 #125
ReRe Jun 2016 #127
frazzled Jun 2016 #130
George II Jun 2016 #131
VulgarPoet Jun 2016 #132
Marr Jun 2016 #133

Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:38 AM

1. No role at all as far as I am concerned.

I gave NO thought to religion ( or not) determining who to support. Many Hillary supporters are Jewish as well.

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Response to apcalc (Reply #1)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:57 AM

11. Well many Bernie supporters are female as well...

...that did not stop posters here from accusing them of sexism. I know, as I am one of those female Bernie supporters. When I pointed out that I was hardly a BernieBro, being a woman in her late 60s -- I was told that my "Bro-ness" had nothing to do with my gender or my age.

Anyway: the question is not about you or about anyone individually; the question is whether anti-Semitism played a role in not supporting Bernie for some voters. Based on what I have seen here at DU, my answer is a resounding YES, it did play a role.

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Response to apcalc (Reply #1)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:00 PM

32. Many Bernie supporters are Jewish and female. So there is that.

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Response to apcalc (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 04:38 AM

126. Antisemitism is rising on the far left and far right

in Europe and other areas, and we do see signs here. I suspect, though, that Bernie's popularity among many of the far left has probably retarded its resurgence here in America. He's not a religious Jew and supports the rights of Palestinians to exist, and no doubt that has helped in holding back attacks. So my suspicion is very little.

America's far right is especially parched, fertile ground. For too long Christian Zionism has encouraged them to embrace Jews because the Jews are supposedly going to be wiped out fighting Islam for the Christians, who will then sweep in and retake the Holy Lands for the Christianity. They've been waiting too long for that happy new holocaust, though, and this has been hard on the poor things, bless their hearts as we say here in the Deep South, so I for one am expecting a major backlash. But even though some crossed over to vote for him as a hostile maneuver against our expected nominee, how many of them would have voted for him in November? Virtually none, so no real harm there either.

Fwiw, I do believe the antisemitism absent from the Democratic primary would have played a big role in the GE, both as a tool used to sway as many conservative indies away from the Democratic alternative as possible and of course as acting out by millions of strong social/religious conservatives, who'd leap eagerly to attack this elderly commie Jew out to destroy America because that's how they are and what they do.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:39 AM

2. Since the majority of American Jews supported Hillary over Bernie, I think that speaks to the issue

I also happen to be one of those Jews who support Hillary

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Response to still_one (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:01 PM

33. And I happen to be one of those Jews that support Bernie and I am a woman. Imagine that.

In fact my entire family support Bernie. As did my my friends.

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Response to jillan (Reply #33)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:22 PM

59. Of course my point was that the OP's speculation was that antisemetism was a reason people didn't

vote for Bernie was not accurate. Based on your response I assume your vote for Bernie was not because he was Jewish.

The majority who supported Sanders or Clinton was not because a candidate was Jewish or not

A woman or man may support one candidate over another candidate because they perceive that candidate more equipped to protect women's rights.

A woman or man supports one candidate over another candidate because of issues they consider important, and that one candidate is better equipped to deal with them

There is a reason groups like the KKK are supporting Trump, and not Democrats









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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:41 AM

3. Bernie Sanders is Jewish ?

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Response to stonecutter357 (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:00 PM

15. Sanders is not observant and even spoke to Liberty Univ. on a high holy day

I am Jewish and Sanders religion did not help him in my Temple or with my kids.

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Response to stonecutter357 (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:51 PM

24. I pretty much forgot he was Jewish too.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:43 AM

4. This claim is very much like Trump blaming Judge Curiel for Trump's own bigotry.

 

You have 4 more days for this crap.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:43 AM

5. Didn't play a role for me.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:43 AM

6. I think it very much has a role. How much I don't know, it was

rather shocking to see it among "liberals".

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Response to Autumn (Reply #6)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:05 PM

17. Agreed from my perspective, as well, as much as it will not be admitted.

For all the DUers who said it played no role in their choice of Hillary, I am not contesting that, I don't know you personally. I must say that some here who slam Israel with relish have posted things that are inherently anti-Semitic, whether they or others see it or not. Just as a person doesn't have to wear a hood to be racist, anti-semitism can appear to pass. But to believe it does not exist in this country, and had no impact, is to have your eyes closed.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #17)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:09 PM

19. And it seems to be a taboo subject to discuss.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #19)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:27 PM

21. It is. And emotional, vehement denial, as well. Particularly when thinly shrouded in anti-Israel

"justification."

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Response to JudyM (Reply #17)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:02 PM

35. Most of the Jewish people I know are liberal Democrats and do NOT agree with the conservative

leadership that is there now. They still have their hearts with Israel though....

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Response to kerry-is-my-prez (Reply #35)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:22 PM

80. That is somewhat dismissive of a genuine issue. I don't automatically conflate disagreeing with

Israel's policies with anti-semistism, of course. It is only when the comments smack of anti-semitism that they are anti-semitic.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:45 AM

7. We all know it played a role but to what degree is the million dollar question.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:48 AM

8. I am Jewish and I opposed Sanders because he was a bad general election candidate

I have discussions about Sanders campaign but at Temple and with other Jews. Many Jews opposed Sanders because he was a bad candidate who would not have a chance in a general election contest.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:49 AM

9. None that I've seen

 

and I consider that remarkable.

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Response to rjsquirrel (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:49 PM

51. It reared its ugly head here at DU. How did you avoid that?

 

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Response to Matt_in_STL (Reply #51)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:35 PM

63. I missed it I guess

 

In condemn it unequivocally if so.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:55 AM

10. So since Hillary's top aide is Muslim and her daughter married a Jew

And she's Christian does that mean this is a stupid fucking subject

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Response to MattP (Reply #10)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:50 PM

52. So that means that Democrats can't be antisemitic.

 

Bernie is married to a woman so I'll expect that Hillary supporters will take back all their claims of sexism. That's how stupid your argument is.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:58 AM

12. Bernie Sanders is Jewish. Why isn’t that convincing Jews to vote for him?

It took me ten seconds to find this article which may explain why Sanders did not do well with the Jewish vote https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/03/08/bernie-sanders-is-jewish-why-isnt-that-convincing-jews-to-vote-for-him/

But all that talk doesn’t appear to be translating into extra votes. Sanders has already come closer to the White House than any Jew in history, yet it’s not clear that he is inspiring Jews to be any more likely to vote for him than non-Jewish Americans with similar demographics.

“The people I know who are supporting Sanders don’t seem to be doing it because he’s Jewish. Then there are many people I know who are supporting Hillary Clinton, even though they’re proud that Sanders is Jewish,” Berg said. “That’s unusual.”...

“All the Jews over 40 are with Hillary Clinton. They just are. We just are,” Rabinowitz said. He was with Clinton before she even declared she was in the race, as a co-founder of a group called Jewish Americans Ready for Hillary.

Among young Jews, Sanders has a strong following — just as he has drawn devoted supporters among young Democrats of all religions. However, many of those young Americans less reliably come out to the polls.

The article discusses Lieberman and I was on the board of my Temple when Lieberman was announced as Gore's VP and there was a great deal excitement in the Temple family about Lieberman. There were more than one set of prayers directed by the Temple community in favor the 2000 ticket but I did not see anything at all for Sanders. I do remember people complaining when Sanders spoke to Liberty University on a High Holy day (there was some real complaints about this on a number of different levels).

Again, as a Jew, I do not think that anti-semitism played a role in Sanders lack of support. At the time, there was some anti-semetism directed at Lieberman in the 2000 campaign and using hindsight, Lieberman was a poor choice by Gore.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:58 AM

13. In some cases it plays a particularly strong role,

but we're not supposed to talk about that.

I did happen to notice, though, that all the usual anti-Semitic tropes got a real workout here--he's just in it for the money, he's a grifter, he's lecherous, he doesn't share our American values, etc.

I'm sure that is all purely coincidental, though.

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Response to QC (Reply #13)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 12:40 AM

110. Bingo!

The most obvious anti-Semitic meme, IMO, was the red-bating. That was so fucking 1950's I had to keep checking my calendar to make sure I hadn't time-travelled.

We can discuss all kinds of bigotries here, except anti-Semitism. It is treated as if the very mention is some sort of "reverse racism" charge and is meant to be mocked, ridiculed, and outright dismissed.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:59 AM

14. Never thought about it other than his cool Brooklyn accent

Not a soul has mentioned his religion in any fashion other than in a positive or complimentary light.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:03 PM

16. Lots. "Misogyny" and "Racism" are articles of faith on DU.

 

They are *everywhere*. To question them... anywhere, anytime.... is akin to a devout Roman Catholic questioning the virgin birth.

Anti-Semitism..... despite the party's long, difficult and well-established history of it.... particularly with the "Hymietown" variety.... is OTOH , taboo.

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Response to Smarmie Doofus (Reply #16)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 12:38 AM

109. Very well stated.

Scores of threads on white and male privileges, but discussing the other "privileges" that exist, well, that is just 'impolite.' Dicussing anti-Semitism is met with dismissal, claims of "other minorities have far more pressing concerns", to outright 'splainin' by non-Jews to Jewish posters what is and isn't anti-Semitism.

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Response to Smarmie Doofus (Reply #16)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 12:42 AM

111. Absolutely true. It is delegitimized here. Eye-opening to see this, and profoundly saddening.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:08 PM

18. definitely played a role but was not addressed

here and afaik could not be

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:22 PM

20. Apparently in some cases, a lot.

 

In particular, an unhinged DUer posted a particularly nasty anti-Semitic rant on a HRCsupporters website. It was allowed to stand.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:36 PM

22. Since Sanders downplays his Jewish heritage, or dismisses it altogether...

I'd say that it plays little to no role at all in opposition to him.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #22)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:56 PM

28. His father's family was wiped out in the Holocaust. SHAME on you for your cold hearted

comments for saying he dismisses it.

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Response to jillan (Reply #28)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:21 PM

41. Oh, turn your crocodile tears on someone who will fall for it

Sanders is not prominent in the Jewish community, nor is is much of a friend to Israel...doubly so when he names the likes of James Zogby and Cornell West to his convention team, two individuals well-known to the Anti-Defamation League.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #41)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:34 PM

45. Losing your family in the Holocaust is crocodile tears? WTF is wrong with someone who says that??


As far as Zogby and West - the horror of bringing people with differing viewpoints together.


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Response to jillan (Reply #45)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:38 PM

48. "crocodile tears" referred to you, not Bernie. Get a grip with the faux outrage here.

Zogby's and West's support for BDS is not a "different viewpoint", it is anti-Zionism and completely out-of-step with the American electorate.

3 days.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #48)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 10:01 PM

97. Results...

On Sun Jun 12, 2016, 09:58 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

"crocodile tears" referred to you, not Bernie. Get a grip with the faux outrage here.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2179123

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Disgusting line of personal attack in this subthread. Culminated by this post.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jun 12, 2016, 10:01 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I . . . what?
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #97)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 10:04 PM

98. Thanks

This truly is silly season around here sometimes.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #41)


Response to Tarc (Reply #22)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:10 PM

57. That's like saying an uncle tom is treated as an equal in the white racist community.

Racists don't care if a person self hates.

I also disagree with your assessment of Bernie.

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Response to NWCorona (Reply #57)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:26 PM

60. Not even a sliver of a sensible argument there.

Sanders chooses to side more with the Palestinians and regularly criticizes Israel when they defend themselves from terrorist actions.

He's picked his side.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #60)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:33 PM

62. And your double down just proves my point.

You are speaking of sides and who's side would that be?

You are insinuating that Bernie by siding with the other side some how nullifies their opposition to him being Jewish. I think differently.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #22)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:23 PM

105. He said in a town hall that he was proud to be Jewish, after being asked about it

It should not be an issue but some people have brought it up.

I am not sure what you mean by "downplays".

Does Clinton "downplay" being a Methodist because she doesn't talk about it in every speech?

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Response to Ash_F (Reply #105)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 12:49 AM

112. His deeds count more than the (extremely occasional) words

I won't point out how ill-informed the Methodist analogy is. Oh wait, maybe I just did.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #112)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 12:50 AM

113. What deeds?

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Response to Ash_F (Reply #113)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 12:53 AM

114. Praising Palestinians for resistance, condemning Israel for self-defense

Closely associating with James Zogby and Cornell West, both well-known for their support of the virulently anti-Zionist "BDS" (boycott, divestment, sanctions).

These stances are well out-of-touch with the American electorate, not to mention the Jewish American community.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #114)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 12:55 AM

115. Your false narrative

He has supported Palestinian rights.

Many Jews support Palestinian rights.

The man who would deny them rights, Benjamin Netanyahu, supported Romney in 2012.

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Response to Ash_F (Reply #115)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 12:59 AM

116. No, Jews support "Palestinian rights" on the condition they cease committing acts of terrorism

against the state of Israel to advance their ideological causes.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #116)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 01:01 AM

117. So you are defining what makes a Jew?

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Response to Ash_F (Reply #117)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 01:08 AM

118. "American Public Opinion Toward Israel"

U.S.-Israel Relations: American Public Opinion Toward Israel

The best indication of Americans' attitude toward Israel is found in the response to the most consistently asked question about the Middle East: “In the Middle East situation, are your sympathies more with Israel or with the Arab nations?” The organization that has conducted the most surveys is Gallup. In the most recent poll, reported by Gallup in February 2016, 62% sympathized with Israel, just below 2013's all-time high of 64%.


I know, facts are pesky things when someone gets his dander up about America's historic ties with Israel, but, what can ya do?

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Response to Tarc (Reply #118)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 01:13 AM

119. I would like to see what those questions looked like

One can "support Israel" and be against racist policy at the same time.

"I support Israel" does not suddenly mean I support stuff like this, for example:

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/an-inconveivable-crime.premium-1.484110

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:49 PM

23. Anti-Semitism has existed for centuries

 

and didn't just magically go away for Bernie Sanders.

The question is not whether some people will not vote for a Jew, but "how many?"

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:55 PM

25. None for me

 

The fact that he isn't a Democrat, dissed the shit out of Dems and the party (instead of focusing on republicans) and the fact that he was not truthful about the costs of his proposals is why I opposed him. Couldn't care less about his heritage.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:55 PM

26. It's played a huge role. You can see it in the replies in this thread.

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Response to jillan (Reply #26)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:59 PM

29. You may be able to, but I can't.

Which ones are you thinking of?

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Response to Donald Ian Rankin (Reply #29)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:28 PM

43. You can start with the ones saying Oh, Bernie is Jewish? I didn't know that.

He's only spoken about it 100s of times.

Or the ones that say Bernie dismisses his Jewish faith, knowing that his father's family was wiped out in the Holocaust. And if they didn't know that after 1 year, then they are willfully ignorant.

Absolutely shameful!

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Response to jillan (Reply #43)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:50 PM

69. Plenty of non-observant Jews out there.

My MIL had no use for the Jewish faith, and was highly critical about religion in general. She still cherished and participated in many elements of the culture. And she had family wiped out in the Holocaust (and in earlier Russian pogroms) that she never forgot or dismissed.

It's not necessarily a contradiction.

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Response to jillan (Reply #43)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:06 PM

75. Wow! So if someone doesn't know that Bernie is Jewish,

that's considered antisemitic?? I only know because it has come up on DU. I've NEVER heard him mention his Jewish heritage. Of course, I've never listened to a full speech from him.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #75)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:14 PM

77. Made up your mind without ever listening to, or reading, his speech or his website?

His religion is prominent. You've outed yourself as being blindly partisan. SMH

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #75)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 04:28 PM

89. Did you not watch the debates either? He spoke about his faith several times.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:56 PM

27. This is grasping at straws. Almost no one who supports Hillary every brings up Bernie being Jewish

nor is he ever attacked for it. On the other hand, attacks on minorities and women are rampant on the pro-Bernie side. The visible animosity isn't even comparable.

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Response to qdouble (Reply #27)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:51 PM

54. Really? You must be new here.

 

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Response to Matt_in_STL (Reply #54)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:44 PM

67. Nope. I just started to post, but I've lurked. Almost no one gives Bernie shit for being Jewish.

However the "blacks voting against their best interest" and "you're only voting for her because she's a woman" type statements are very common. Bernie's Jewishness is rarely ever brought into the conversation.

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Response to qdouble (Reply #67)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:54 PM

71. Then you somehow missed the very long posts about a poster here at DU and anti-semitism

 

How, I have no clue.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:59 PM

30. It played a large role in the DU Primary dynamics, that's for sure.

 

nt

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #30)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:20 PM

40. Can you highlight this "large role" it played on DU? Nt

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #40)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:40 PM

65. Red baiting is the most glaring. DUers calling him a commie

Bringing up the trip to Burlington's Russian sister city as Bernie’s commie "honeymoon" in the Soviet Union, etc etc.

Jewish DUers like Behind the Aegis and Nadinbrezinski have pointed out many anti-semitic tropes but also lament the fact that there's been so many they've basically given up trying to educate people especially since alerting on even the most vicious shit never gets a hide. DUers in a certain camp don't care and in fact applaud a poster with a particularly vile streak of anti-semitism.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #40)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:20 PM

79. At least one prominent poster has been revealed as an antisemite

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Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #79)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 06:06 AM

128. One? "Large role" nt

 

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Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #79)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 01:49 PM

135. I remember that. Quite revealing. /nt

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #40)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:26 PM

81. I've pointed it out to you before. You just handwave it.

 

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #81)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 06:08 AM

129. That doesn't answer the question. At all.

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #40)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 01:34 AM

121. I'd like to see a link to it, please. I've seen no anti-Semitic sentiments leveled at Bernie.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #30)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 12:35 AM

108. It sure did.

Dual loyalty to Israel...that morphed into...self-loathing Jew who hates Israel;
Lived on a communist kibbutz;
Honeymooned in Russia;
Didn't keep High Holy days to the standard of other "good" Jews;
Failed to mention his Jewishness on command;
Played the "Holocaust card" (yes, that was written here at least twice);


It is funny how many who didn't "see it" or "didn't know he was a Jew", had no fucking problem identifying sexism directed at Clinton.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #108)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 04:08 AM

124. I liked the one about how Sanders needs to learn

more about how to be a true American.

Hint...hint...wink...wink.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:00 PM

31. not much damage. He is against "Yahoo" and doesnt come off as overly religious

 

his religion clearly does not form his policies and it is his policies that is the revolution

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Response to swhisper1 (Reply #31)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:13 PM

36. His entire platform is based on his faith. He spoke about it many times.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:01 PM

34. Tripped up by the...

...phrasing of the question. "Opposing" does not describe me: a supporter of both who moved toward Hillary as she became the favorite. For people who had "opposing" as their main motivation, the answer may be different. I do believe many non-Democrats who seemed okay with Bernie would have attacked him from an anti-Semitic vantage point.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:15 PM

37. I remember a black pastor from a southern church being interviewed.

I think it was a Baptist church, but I can't be certain. In any case, it seemed to matter a whole lot to him that Bernie was Jewish and not in a good way.

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Response to Vinca (Reply #37)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:36 PM

46. I remember that. One other question falls into this post:

Did the question of support for Israel have any affect on his support among Jews? I did not see a lot of our elected officials come out and support him. I was shocked when Al Franken supported Hillary.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #46)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:40 PM

49. Sanders supports Israel and franken endorsed Clinton before Sanders got in the race

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Response to JI7 (Reply #49)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:00 PM

56. I remember when in very early 2009 during Operation Cast Lead Franken standing arm in arm

with Norm Coleman with whom he was engaged in a bitter vote recount praising Israel at the very same time as we were hearing reports of Israel using White Phosphorus in civilian areas in Gaza

There is supporting Israels existence and there's supporting Israels actions, which IMO are 2 very different things

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:18 PM

38. I don't think Sanders is anti semetic

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Response to Evergreen Emerald (Reply #38)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:29 PM

44. What an anti semetic thing to say.

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Response to jillan (Reply #44)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:46 PM

50. oh brother

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:19 PM

39. I'm sure to a very small group it played a very large role.

 

To a bit larger yet still very small group a small roll.

To an overwhelming majority no role at all.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:23 PM

42. this should only be mentioned when Hillary supporters say we don't like her because she's a woman

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:36 PM

47. of course and against Debbie Wasserman Schultz also

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Response to JI7 (Reply #47)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 12:30 AM

107. You are correct.

I just adore you. Unlike me, you say so much with so little. The fact we have so many "experts" on anti-Semitism who "never" saw any here (or elsewhere), explains why they are experts with quotes around the word.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:50 PM

53. none

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:59 PM

55. A significant amount. Especially down south where Hillary swept.

 

Hillary won among very religious Christians to be sure.

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Response to Cheese Sandwich (Reply #55)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:45 PM

68. Bullshit. Christian's by and large have no animosity towards Jews.

Why do you think protecting Israel is a priority for the Christian right?

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Response to qdouble (Reply #68)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:09 PM

76. There's a large contingent of people down south who won't vote for a non-Christian

 

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Response to Cheese Sandwich (Reply #76)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 04:18 PM

86. Even if that's true, it isn't specifically anti-Jew

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Response to qdouble (Reply #68)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:48 PM

85. The Christian right doesn't love Israel, they love the Rapture and Israel's role in that event

I've got enough Jew hating but Israel loving Christians in my own family to be thoroughly familiar with the dynamic.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #85)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 04:20 PM

87. That's bogus.... I've been to tons of churches in the south where they pray for Israel and view Jews

as God's chosen people. I'm not denying anti-semitism exist, but it certainly isn't a strong factor in why Bernie wasn't chosen.

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Response to qdouble (Reply #87)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 04:30 PM

91. Hymietown

I think it was Jesse Jackson who used that phrase.

This primary has been extremely educational, some things I have suspected for years got confirmed to me.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #91)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 08:03 PM

95. Yeah it was Jesse Jackson he referred to Jews as "Hymies" and to New York City as "Hymietown"

in an interview to a reporter. I thought it was an aberration but this primary has been very revealing.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #95)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 10:59 PM

99. There's a long and storied history of anti-semitism in the black community.

 



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Response to qdouble (Reply #68)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 02:09 PM

136. Bullshit

 

Those evangelicals support Israel for their own selfish reasons. Israel has to be in Jewish hands for their ridiculous end times fantasy to come about. That's the ONLY reason they support Israel. They'll also be the first ones to throw us into the fiery pits of hell (which Jews don't happen to believe in, ironically enough) when we don't accept Jesus as our savior. They have zero love for actual Jewish people.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:21 PM

58. Unfortunately

anti-Semitism is still fairly wide spread in our country. As for here at DU, I didnt see huge amounts, but it was definitely present. Some typical stereotypes were posted a number of times.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:29 PM

61. About as much as it did in the dissing of Barbara Boxer

IOW, very little to none. Most reasonable voters (which I hope includes the vast majority of DU) can support or not support candidates based on their proposed policies and issues.

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Response to Retrograde (Reply #61)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:01 PM

72. Retrograde, just out of curiosity.....

 

....are you acknowledging ( "asserting", if you prefer) that opposition to CLINTON (i.e. here; on DU) was, and *IS* NOT based primarily (or to any significant degree) on the fact that Clinton is a woman?




>>>>"Most reasonable voters (which I hope includes the vast majority of DU) can support or not support candidates based on their proposed policies and issues.">>>>>

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Response to Smarmie Doofus (Reply #72)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 09:14 PM

96. If I understand your question correctly

if you're asking whether I think the opposition to Clinton is because she is a woman, I think that there are many reasons why people chose not to vote for her. Some of the ones I've heard are "entitled", "forced on us by DNC", "too hawkish", "too tied to Wall Street and big banks", "history of bad decisions while at State", "out of touch with the 99%", "not following State Dept. protocols with email". I suspect there are some who oppose her because she's a woman (and I hope those are all in the Trump camp), but the people in their 40s and up I know who voted against Clinton (yes, there are quite a few) overall preferred Sanders' stance on the economy and other issues.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:38 PM

64. way larger than anyone will ever admit

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:42 PM

66. A lot but too many either applaud it or don't give a shit

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:53 PM

70. It's doubtful that most people even knew

In fact, he won some areas that Obama performed extremely poor in. It's clear why he lost and it's not because he is Jewish.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:02 PM

73. Zero role for me. I see him as a priviledged old white guy

who has annoyed me for years with his holier than thou (pure) opinions and critiques. He says a lot of the right things, but he is a little too one dimensional for me.

I'm sure he faced some antisemitism from fringe folks and nazi types, but not most Americans. If anything, Sanders benefited from bigotry towards women.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #73)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:43 PM

84. LOL.

 

Thanks for illustrating the point.


>>>If anything, Sanders benefited from bigotry towards women.>>>

I love ya'. Seriously. LOL.

Let's have more like you.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:05 PM

74. None. He just wasn't the best candidate. n/t

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:18 PM

78. The responses from Hillary supporters here are fucking funny

 

Really guys? The first Jewish man to have a serious shot at heading a major party ticket, and you think antisemitism was nowhere in the field?

Tell me another one.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #78)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 04:21 PM

88. What we're saying is most of us haven't witnessed much of any anti-semetic statements towards Bernie

Certainly you can find some people who are against any demographic. That doesn't mean it's prevalent.

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Response to qdouble (Reply #88)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:18 PM

92. That you choose to not look doesn't make it invisible

 

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #92)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:24 PM

93. Point to it then. It certainly isn't apparent to most of us.

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Response to qdouble (Reply #93)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:45 PM

94. I pointed out my pointing-out (one of them) upthread

 

Do you really think that there has been no antisemitism towards the first Jewish guy to have a shot at a major party ticket?

Next you'll tell me Clinton faced no sexism and Obama faced no racism.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #94)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 02:24 AM

122. Did I ever say zero? I said it wasn't rampant. Other than very extremist groups and probably

muslims... anti-semitism isn't nearly as rampant as sexism and anti-black racism.

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Response to qdouble (Reply #93)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:11 PM

101. I bet you are far better at spotting bigotry against whatever you are

I know I am best at spotting bigotry aimed at me, it's just more noticeable to me for some inexplicable reason.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #101)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 02:26 AM

123. Sorry, not buying it. Never seen anyone say anti-semetic about Bernie ever. Not saying it doesn't

happen, but it's not nearly as prevalent as stuff against blacks and women.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #78)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 04:30 PM

90. I'll never forget that one debate when Judy Woodruff asked him about standing in the way of

history - totally ignoring the fact that Bernie would be our first Jewish president.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #78)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:05 PM

100. Given that almost no one is even aware that Bernie is Jewish? Yes. -nt-

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Response to Lord Magus (Reply #100)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:16 PM

103. The antisemites know Bernie is Jewish

And that's what counts.

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Response to Lord Magus (Reply #100)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:53 PM

106. Ooh, another HRC supporter exposed as having NEVER read anything on Bernie's website

 

or listened to even one iota of any of his speeches.

Hint: his Jewish heritage is integral to who he is and its a centerpiece of his campaign.

Profess ignorance = outed as a LIV.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:33 PM

82. Hard to know.

Since anti-semitism like sexism and racism is viewed differently from one person to another.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:37 PM

83. That post you're referencing doesn't say what you claim it says

It doesn't say that opposition to Hillary is based on racism and misogyny. It says that some people's inability to accept the results of the primary is based on racism and misogyny.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:14 PM

102. I've read some anti semitic shit here. Lots of red baiting too...

 

...and I mean LOTS of it. Surprising too, coming from this site. I've been here since January of 2004 and I've never seen anything like it.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:18 PM

104. There is some serious anti-semitism among a sizable portion of Trump supporters

 

It is frightening to see some of the social media stuff posted in support of him.

Blatant anti-Jewish stuff left and right.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 01:28 AM

120. None unless you are fantasizing about crossover GOP votes. It certainly has no bearing on Dems...

....although I worry about the anti-Zionists on the left-left.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 04:18 AM

125. Same as misogynist does on HRC

 

It has no value and is...most often..over reach logic

Hillary is a lord upon high...and Bernie isnt

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 05:49 AM

127. None.

Period.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 10:56 AM

130. Let's ask the Jews

(Of which I am one--a very secular one, like Bernie, if that matters at all). Although no exit polls did a breakdown of voters by religion, several polls suggest that Jewish voters went largely for Clinton:

The best evidence so far comes from two recent polls of New York voters.

The Sienna College Poll, which has a long track record of surveying New York voters, found Clinton leading Sanders among Jewish voters 60%-38%. That's almost as large as her lead among black voters, the poll found. Overall, she led 52%-42%, the poll found.

African Americans make up about 20% of the expected turnout for the Democratic primary, the poll projected. Jews make up just over 10%.

The NBC/Wall St. Journal/Marist poll found roughly the same breakdown, Clinton leading among Jews 65%-32%, part of an overall lead of 57%-40%. That poll pegged Jewish voters as likely to make up 16% of the electorate for the primary.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-live-updates-democr-sanders-fares-poorly-against-clinton-with-fellow-j-1460644902-htmlstory.html


Did that pan out in the actual primary? It would seem so:

While the exit polls did not provide any breakdown of the Jewish vote, we can make some assumptions by looking at how the vote went in neighborhoods with large numbers of Jews.

In Borough Park, Brooklyn, one of the most Jewish precincts in the country, Hillary Clinton’s margin of victory, 61.3 percent to Bernie Sanders’ 38.7 percent, was slightly narrower than her citywide victory of 63.4-36.6 percent. Borough Park had 3,930 Democratic votes cast.

In the heavily Chabad-Lubavitch Brooklyn neighborhood of Crown Heights South, Clinton won 63.8 percent of the vote to Sanders’ 36.2 percent, out of 5,374 total Democratic voters. In the heavily Satmar neighborhood of Williamsburg, Brooklyn, Clinton beat Sanders 61-39 percent out of 1,077 Democratic votes.

Clinton did much better on Manhattan’s Upper East Side and Upper West Side, where plenty of Jews live and where she took about 80 percent and 71 percent of the vote, respectively. But it’s hard to surmise anything about the Jewish vote in those neighborhoods because the Jews are mixed in with non-Jews.

http://www.jta.org/2016/04/20/news-opinion/united-states/what-we-know-and-dont-know-about-how-jews-voted-in-new-york


There must be a lot of self-hating, anti-semitic Jews, both according to these statistics and the anecdotal evidence people have been giving in this thread. Most of us who are Jewish would testify that the majority of Jews in their family or social circles supported Hillary, just as the rest of American Democrats did. (Let's remember that Jews, like African-Americans, are among the most dedicated Democrats, and I think that had more to do with anything than Bernie's religion.) There are of course exceptions, as with the rest of the voting populace. For instance, my (Jewish) niece, a hip young millennial who happens to live in Crown Heights, probably voted for Bernie (although I never asked her), much like the rest of the population.

I think anti-Semitism had close to absolutely zip affect on this primary race.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 11:02 AM

131. None.

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Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 01:44 PM

133. I think antisemitism has been much more of a factor in this primary than sexism.

 

Particularly early, in the south.

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