2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe state of ".. or bust"
Now that we've had a bit of time for the hard feelings of the primary to settle down, and we've seen a glimpse into the future, I was wondering what the position of the "or bust" crowd is now.
We've just seen Donald Trump pull back the curtain, going full-on racist, fascist, and whatever other adjectives you thought could only exist in bad political movies. Trump is showing himself to be not just completely incompetent for the job, but a real threat to America's standing as the moral leader of the world. The way he talks, Trump will open up the floodgates of hatred in this country, taking us back to a time when anyone who wasn't a straight white man was the target of prejudice and exclusion.
Seeing what Trump is, how many of those "busters" are still holding out, saying it doesn't matter if Trump wins in the fall?
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)with their claim?
TheCowsCameHome
(40,204 posts)Sanders supporters are irrelevant and not needed, right?
Which is it, dude - Are they, or aren't they?
brush
(56,955 posts)tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)If the GOP were running any normal candidate, like a McCain, Rubio, kasich or Rmoney, she would be in big trouble. Instead she is running against a complete clown.
Trump is, well, her trump card.
If (and this is completely within the realm of possibility) the GOP dumps trump at the convention for a more mainstream candidate, she could likely lose.
brush
(56,955 posts)will urge him to run third party and/or sit it out.
A splintered party like that won't beat anyone?
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)It works both ways.
Repubs hate hate hate Hillary and would likely still vote against her...kind of like some Bernie supporters voting for Hillary to keep Trump out of the WH, not because they like Clinton.
Keep in mind, Clinton has massive negatives. When she was polled against several candidates in the GOP primary, she lost handily. One that comes to mind was Kasich would beat her in just about every swing state by at least 5 points.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and hostility, it heats it up further. As you can see, this transition week is not a calm-down period for the ones you're wondering about.
Maybe just leave them alone? Unless poking a beehive is the general idea, of course.
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)For over a decade. Love this place and the main reason I do is that people here generally valued truth and reality over partisan worship. DU has always been about supporting the Democratic Party, but we were also allowed to call a spade a spade no matter if they had a (D) after their name or not.
With that said, it appears that won't be the case anymore after the 16th, and if your not willing to worship and march in line behind the nominee, you'll be banned. Don't want any part of that nonsense.
HarmonyRockets
(397 posts)Or Jill Stein communities.
brush
(56,955 posts)How do you think Bill Clinton won in the first place? Perot mounted a 3rd party run and took votes from the repugs.
Hillary would win in a walk if Trump gets dumped. The replacement repug nominee would represent a tainted party running against a Trump 3rd party and a Dem party much stronger than either of them.
Please let them dump Trump.
Duval
(4,280 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)anyone, but he has a very bad record for anyone who has discovered bottom and rejected it. Most of Kasich's history is unexamined outside his state, too, so lots of juicily new stories would be freshly interesting during the campaign. The whole thing is worrying, of course, but it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for us if the pubs dredged him up from their hole.
brush
(56,955 posts)know that around 70% if Sanders supporters, when polled, have said they will vote for the Dem nominee.
It's the dead-enders, the Bernie or busters who we've learned from their frequently repeated statements that they will never vote for Clinton we've learned they can't be counted on. But they are only 25-30% of Sanders supporters.
With the rest of the Obama coalition sensible progressive whites who don't want Trump appointing the next 3-4 SCOTUS justices, African Americans, Latino Americans, women, gays, Asian Americans, Native Americans, handicapped Americans, sensible left-leaning and moderate independents who also don't want Trump appointing the next 3-4 SCOTUS justices, and the jnon-buster Sanders supporters we will beat the racist, student scamming, women-hating, proto-fascist Trump just as we beat Romney and McCain.
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)If you want include Jill Stein and Gary whatever his name is libertarian candidate, the number of Bernie supporters drops significantly, one poll had them down to 40% supporting Hillary.
brush
(56,955 posts)But you have nothing to say about the rest of the Obama coalition and how we've beaten back Romney and McCain, two repug candidates undeniable more formidable than carnival barker Trump?
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)This primary season was first time voters of Obama in 2008 and 2012. Contrary to popular belief, they're not voting since Obama is not on the ticket.
Hillary is going to miss her 2008 number, which means there's less support for her this year than there was in 2008.
brush
(56,955 posts)Wishful thinking on your part. And also disappointing that so many dead-ender Bernie or busters, who have boxed themselves into an ideological corner since Sanders lost, are hoping for a Trump win.
Sad.
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)Simple math, Obama and Hillary each received roughly 36 million combined votes I'm the 2008 primary. If even half the Obama coalition turned out for her, and she kept her same supporters, she would have roughly 24.5 million votes this primary season, but at her current average she will not even reach the same results she had in 2008.
brush
(56,955 posts)And after the 70% of Sanders voters who are not Bernie or busters are added to the total, we'll beat Trump.
But keep praying that Trump wins. It's a good look on you.
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)Former Hillary supporters stop supporting her?
brush
(56,955 posts)As I said, 70% if Sanders supporters are non-dead-enders and will vote blue against the carnival barker repug.
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)brush
(56,955 posts)Some 70% are sensible voters, not dead-enders at all.
Duval
(4,280 posts)brush
(56,955 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,899 posts)If it was credible, or remotely scientific, post it. I doubt that it was.
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)That when Hillary and Trump are the only two polled, Sanders voters lean Hillary. They found that the more candidates that are named are offered to pollsters, that number quickly drops.
Maru Kitteh
(28,899 posts)I'm very sorry, it's nothing personal at all, just the way all of our brains work and confirmation bias and all that. Most people don't intentionally make inaccurate statements about things like this, they simply misread and store information in a way that fits their existing schema.
Demsrule86
(70,800 posts)What we have said is we may very well have to do without such support if clueless supporters who don't understand the Trump danger refuse to back the Democratic nominee. It is always your choice. Your candidate lost...so you can save the country and possibly the world by voting for the Democratic nominee or not.
DebDoo
(319 posts)Has been said by many people, in many ways
Demsrule86
(70,800 posts)by voting for the green traitor party, Trump himself or not voting...then I would say screw you too. We will have to get along without you. But I would hope, most would not do that.
LoverOfLiberty
(1,438 posts)I mean, really, who bases their vote on what someone said in an Internet forum?
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Trump sucks.
But that doesn't mean we should not also aim higher to create a better world, while fighting him.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)redStateBlueHeart
(265 posts)HarmonyRockets
(397 posts)you must be concluding that Jill Stein has a chance to win. I don't see any reason to think that. Trump and Clinton will be the two candidates competing for the presidency, meaning it is a binary choice whether you want it to be or not.
coyote
(1,561 posts)No need for my help.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)If Warren being neutral is a sin, not endorsing Trump's opponent must be as well.
coyote
(1,561 posts)Clinton supporters told me so. Not to mention the numerous Clinton supporters here who have said that Bernie and his supporters are irrelevant.
It's good to know that you Clinton supporters are allowing us to take a load off on Election Day. We worked hard this year.
eastwestdem
(1,220 posts)Interesting statement on what type of person should and should not use social media.
coyote
(1,561 posts)And Hillary certainly does not have my best interest in mind. Looking "presidential" and having a vagina is simply not enough.
eastwestdem
(1,220 posts)An even better question, what issues that are important to you did Sanders actually have a plan to accomplish?
obamanut2012
(27,698 posts)And, a jury left this.
Marr
(20,317 posts)and if Hillary's fans have a lick of sense, they'll stop making this kneejerk accusation at every bend. It makes them look like wilting, overly-sensitive crybabies. No one votes for weakness.
MoonRiver
(36,945 posts)tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)Your snark is noted.
Just don't come crying when the GOP replaces Trump with a "better" candidate and beats the pants off Hill.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)So fragile
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)brush
(56,955 posts)Bernie or Busters in the coalition that will defeat Trump, the same coalition, btw, that defeated Romney and McCain.
Trump is a joke compared to them, so no, we're not counting on the dead-enders to help defeat the carnival barker, student-scammer, racist, proto-fascist Trump.
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)He wears his shit on his sleeve...you know exactly what you're getting.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)But you're saying I should vote for the lesser of two evils again? Is that your point?
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)If Hillary is the best we can do, we should close up shop and become South Canada. That would be momentous, eh?!
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Even those who don't care for Hillary know she is far better for the country than Trump, in fact about 1000 times better. Those who refuse to vote or write in Sanders, or vote for some 3rd party will just have to do what they do.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)They named it after everything they've accomplished.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)Fuck unity; right BobbyDrake?
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)It's certainly better than being an obsequious group-thinking echo chamber that Hill supporters are hoping upon hope DU will become.
I've been here for over a decade, and that is not the DU I love.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)Spare me your endless victimhood already. As far as groupthink goes, look in the mirror to find it.
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)When their feelings got hurt over here at DU? Much of it used to backstab DU members they didn't agree with.
http://hillaryclintonsupporters.com/
Whatever.
BTW...Jackpine Radicals was founded in part in homage to a late great and beloved member of DU with the JPR username.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)is being used for? I've read a few of the threads over there that are causing it to be described as a hate site. I'll add that there is also a very dismaying trend to hostile conspiracy theories that are way over the edge. What's good for DU, i.e., taking it somewhere else, appears to be very unhealthy for those immersing themselves in much heavier concentrations at that site.
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)ETA: Or are we supposed to believe it's just a coincidence that they're all jumping ship ahead of the jury system rework? No more tyranny of the majority, so I guess it's not going to be as much fun?
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Many of the members who left DU for JPR were star members of DU for years-some of them since the start of DU. A lot of them provided substantial content to this site which helped build it into what it is. So, no, something as incredibly shallow as the reworked jury system did not motivate them to be star members, but I can see why you would think that:
They are Progressives who have principles and will continue to work toward the laws, policies, rules and regulations they believe need to be inacted. Because of the new rules here, that work cannot be accomplished at DU.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)How many more petulant replies can I expect from the disgruntled horde?
Loudestlib
(980 posts)JimDandy
(7,318 posts)at JPR.
You were schooled and making petulant replies in return is to be expected from you.
Ciao...
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)qdouble
(891 posts)be sane while they spit the most vile and insane conspiratorial nonsense over there.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)If you were wondering what the people behind Gamer-Gate have been up to ever since, see JackSquatFanaticals.
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)qdouble
(891 posts)entire party and thinking of the most hateful things they can say about the nominee on a daily basis. Good riddance to any trash person who think that is a better site than here.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Come on, let it all out.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)the disgusting vulgar shit they call her over there.
Good riddance to that crowd.
qdouble
(891 posts)for women and the majority of democratic party . That place is horrible, but exposes what type of frauds pretend to be rational people on here.
qdouble
(891 posts)Response to qdouble (Reply #22)
Post removed
stonecutter357
(12,763 posts)TwilightZone
(27,560 posts)Not sure how that works, but that seems to be the synopsis of the place.
MoonRiver
(36,945 posts)So, whatever Bernie supporters do, vote for Hillary, vote for Rump, or not vote, it's all good.
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)A frickin' trash can could beat trump.
Trump is her saving grace...if she were up against a Rubio or kasich or even Rmoney, she would be in big trouble. Who knows...that may still happen.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,204 posts)because it's a real possibility that Trump won't "it"
CorkySt.Clair
(1,507 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)And he's very close to throwing in the towel on that. He's already said he will "probably" vote for Clinton.
Maru Kitteh
(28,899 posts)than they are in real life.
And - it's VERY VERY EARLY. November is a long way away. Most SBS supporters will vote for Hillary. Some have already stated they will give money and time as well.
We're going to be fine.
HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)'Now that we've had a bit of time for the hard feelings of the primary to settle down, and we've seen a glimpse into the future, I was wondering what the position of the "or bust" crowd is now'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1107164845
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1107165178
might want to revise your bit about the HRC support crew here on DU
Orsino
(37,428 posts)floriduck
(2,262 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)LWolf
(46,179 posts)You think the hard feelings are "settling down?" While the hatefest against the left wing of the party and nation continues?
I don't know what universe you are living in.
I've never claimed to be a "buster," although I certainly relate to them better than to the fucking neo-liberals running the Democratic Party, and their enablers.
I can't tell you where the "or bust" crowd is; I haven't been chatting with them.
I can tell you that neo-liberals right here on DU are still pushing Sanders hate, Sanders supporters hate, and hate of the left-wing of the party, and it certainly isn't convincing me to see them, nor their candidate, as any "lesser" evil than that other evil.