I think Bernie's push for open primaries was basically self-serving to help him win

[CreekDog]

It wasn't a big part of his platform prior to the campaign, but when he fell behind and was not succeeding with African Americans in particular (and was unwilling to take the actions his advisors told him was necessary to win over a greater proportion of their votes) the only way to win the nomination was to run up his numbers in open primaries and caucuses and in states without large percentages of African Americans.

He gets credit for taking lots of hard positions, seemingly above politics, but this position in particular, was completely political and it was in response to an aspect of his campaign that wasn't working.

I do not think the party should change to all open primaries because an aspect of Bernie's campaign was not succeeding in enough urban areas and among African Americans and other minorities in the party.

Right now, to win the nomination, you have to have support among African Americans and Latinos, even if you don't win them, if they vote against you en masse, there's no way to win the nomination.

It should stay that way.

Furthermore, though he argued against the superdelegates, for weeks he and his campaign said that he'd rely on them to win the nomination even while being behind in the delegate count. This is another self-serving political position that, in fact, was so political, that he took contradictory positions in conflict with it.

[FreakinDJ]

1. Because its so Democratic to Exclude 47% of the Voting Electorate

[CreekDog]

3. It's democratic because anyone can join

and anyone who joins can vote.

very simple!

but Bernie's position originated in his losing among registered Democrats.

[FreakinDJ]

13. Where Unelected officials can write their own rules - So Very Democratic

Fuck the "Good Ol Boys Club"

- Sure

[Herman4747]

36. Look, Independents *WILL* vote in November...

...it behooves us to have a candidate attractive to them!

And deceitful Hillary is not that candidate.

In any case, "selfishness" played no role; instead electability played a big role.

[SFnomad]

4. It's called a Democratic Primary ... not an Independent Primary n/t

[tonyt53]

6. Exactly. The Socialist Party had a nomination open for a while. It could have been Bernie.

[AgingAmerican]

54. Bernie isn't and never has been a Socialist

But don't let that stop your binary thinking

[stonecutter357]

8. Democratic party Members only.......thanks.

[FreakinDJ]

15. Was not that long ago African Americans were not allowed to serve as delegates

Sure you want to stick with that one

[stonecutter357]

26. absolutely positive..

[eastwestdem]

69. This was wrong, but is entirely different from allowing non-Democrats to help choose our nominee.

It makes no sense for others to have an input in this decision.

[FreakinDJ]

70. Change just one word in your reply

This was wrong, but is entirely different from allowing non-WHITES to help choose our nominee.

You just reinforced my point for me

[charlyvi]

14. You are conflating the primary with the GE.

You can vote for whoever you want in the general election; the primary is for each political party to choose its candidate. Democrats choose the Democratic nominee. If you don't want to join the party, why should you have a seat at the table?

[FreakinDJ]

23. You are conflating Cronyism with Democracy

[charlyvi]

27. You are wrong.

[Renew Deal]

58. Does the Green Party have open primaries?

[Retrograde]

66. Not in California this year

The Green, Peace and Freedom, and Republican parties all decided to close their primaries to No Party Preference voters this time around.

[rjsquirrel]

2. Not mentioned: Hillary won more open primaries

All they are doing is making excuses for why their followers failed to show up.

[Sheepshank]

31. I want them closed ......

....to those that have bothered to join the party.

All else can join whatever the hell they want....and vote under those other party rules.

I just don't see non party members directing the course of the party and attempting to re-direct the will of the party members in choosing their Nominee for POTUS

You say that Hillary won in open Primary states? Well, good.

[rjsquirrel]

60. Oh I agree

That was definitely the lesson of this primary. Invite an angry outsider and his angry followers in and they wreck things.


I'm just saying the "closed primary favors the establishment" meme is nonsense. Hil won major open primaries and semi-open ones as well.

She basically beat him on every metric except white men and millennials, and the kinds of folks who don't bother to show up and vote in midterms or even presidential elections. As Bernie's loss proved.

They do like big festive rallies though!

[sufrommich]

5. And his call to replace DWS was made out of a desire for revenge. Odd that

he spent his time with Hillary discussing who needs to be punished for his loss.

[tonyt53]

7. It certainly was pure revenge that Bernie was seeking.

[DURHAM D]

21. I can only imagine how Hillary heard his

"blame the girl" nonsense.

It is pitiful that in the 21st century everyone is concerned about helping an old man control his landing to save his ego.

[LexVegas]

9. I am actually shocked at how much of a sore loser he has turned out to be. nt

[Demsrule86]

11. I am too.

I have to wonder how much the fact she is a woman enters into this.

[DURHAM D]

24. If she were not female the

media and the party would not give a shit about providing Bernie with a soft landing.

[Starry Messenger]

28. +1

[DURHAM D]

22. I'm not. nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

33. Me too

[Renew Deal]

59. You shouldn't be

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512186977

[bravenak]

67. I'm not

[Demsrule86]

10. I am against open primaries

We have them in Ohio and they allow mischief...a democrat should choose the Democratic candidate.

[MineralMan]

12. I don't know. Different states do it differently.

The national Democratic Party doesn't force a particular method of primaries. As we're seeing, some states, like Minnesota, will be abandoning caucuses and going for primary elections after this year. Other states may modify their primaries with regard to being open or closed.

This year, we saw it all. In 2020, it's hard to say, yet. Individual state's party organizations will still have a lot of say in how primaries are done in their states, I'm sure.

Yes, Senator Sanders benefited from open primaries in some states, but not all. Clearly, he needed votes from people who don't consider themselves Democratic Party members. But, nationally, we had a mixed bag of primary types, state-by-state. Maybe that's the best plan. Let each state's party organization decide what will work best for that state.

That has worked so far, so it may not be changed.

[geek tragedy]

16. it's a way for him to deny that he really lost, it's an excuse and an attempt to delegitimize

Clinton's win

Time to call Sandman in and sweep him off the stage.

[Sheepshank]

32. absolutely!!

[geek tragedy]

34. we'll see how much staying power his revolution has without money, media attention, or

tangible short-term goals other than collecting the scalp of DWS and whining about closed primaries.

[Sheepshank]

40. I'm thinking these bright eyed revolutionaries will morph in almost no time at all.

They will morph from wanting Bernie (screaming their support at the top of their lungs, but not really knowing how to go about implementing any of Bernie's platform memes), to bashing Hillary (screaming at any and every manufactured slight, and not really knowing how to go about opening dialogue and getting locals elected to affect long term change). Starting today.

[geek tragedy]

42. as The Who said, The Kids Are Alright

Most of the toxicity comes from people who have plenty of practice hating Democrats going back several election cycles, who saw this as their final opportunity to take down the Obama/Clinton mainstream wing of the party

[obamanut2012]

17. Agreed -- I don't want Libertarians or Repubs choosing my nominee

I'm not a Dem, but I register as one so I can choose the Democratic nom.

[CreekDog]

39. See how easy it is?

[workinclasszero]

18. Open primaries allow republicans

a chance to get a democratic primary winner they can easily defeat in the GE.

A major push needs to be made for closed primaries in all states IMO.

If the loser of this years primaries doesn't like that TS.

[Herman4747]

38. Republicans got their own primaries to deal with!!!

At least until very late in the process this year.

We want a candidate appealing to INDEPENDENTS. Deceitful Hillary is not that candidate.

[Sheepshank]

41. At least one State allowed for voting in both Primaries because of the timing.

And in other states, by the time the Primary came to their state, the Republican Presumptive nominee was the last man and only man standing. It was no waste for them to vote in the Democratic Primary.

[Herman4747]

43. Have you ever voted in the Republican primary? n/t

[Sheepshank]

44. not sure what that has to do with anything?

Are you saying that there is no such thing as strategic voting?

Are you saying that 100% of Republican voters ALWAYS do the honorable thing?

get outta here!!!!

[Herman4747]

45. Nope, but what I am saying...

...is that the number of Republicans voting for Democrats might, shall we say, be too insignificant to contemplate, especially RELATIVE TO THE NUMBER OF INDEPENDENTS VOTING IN DEMOCRATIC PRIMARIES.

So, you never voted in a Republican primary, right, Sheepshank? You're not "strategically-oriented"?

[Sheepshank]

48. For those States that voted AFTER Trump was the last man standing

....I do not believe the cross over votes were insignificant. I do believe that Hillary would have won with even bigger margins without those Republicans trying to help Bernie along. Had this have been a closer Dem race, those cross over votes could have been critical to tilting the election.

As for my cross over votes, I live a in a very, very red State strategy doesn't play well here, and fwiw, I don't think Dems cast strategic votes as often as Reps do.

[athena]

61. I personally know a right-wing nutcase

who told me that if New York had an open primary, she would have voted for Bernie.

She's not a member of either the Democratic or the Republican party, but she is a Fox-watching, right-wing-talking-point-spewing nutcase. I believe she will vote for Trump in the general election.

I'm sorry, but I don't want that kind of person having any say over whom Democrats pick to represent us.

[bigwillq]

19. Possibly, although I am for open primaries

And I don't have an agenda, other then the need to vote in any election that affects me. I want to vote in ALL primaries.

[Agnosticsherbet]

20. Clinton won more open primaries than Sanders, 13 of 23.

https://ballotpedia.org/Open_primary
The narrative that Sanders performed better in open primaries was false.

I don't think it is unusual for losing campaigns to justify self-service.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

35. I think he performed better in open caucuses

[mythology]

49. Yes Sanders did well in the caucuses where few people vote

[Agnosticsherbet]

50. The results were clear. Clinton

Out performed him.

Personally, I would like to see a semi open primary system, that allows independents or decline to state voters to vote by joining the party on election day. I like California's system.

[Triana]

25. Yea. How dare him ask for an actual Democratic election. N/t

[Martin Eden]

29. You lost me at "self-serving"

Whatever you may think of the political strategies employed by Sanders, the entire purpose of his campaign is to serve American families struggling to get by. IMO he is the least self-serving politician in the 41+ years I've been registered to vote.

[geek tragedy]

37. he thinks closed primaries are the stuff of tyranny but has no problem with caucuses

which are far worse at suppressing the vote.

You were saying about him not being self-serving?

[TwilightZone]

56. Clamoring for open primaries while ignoring the inherently undemocratic caucuses is self-serving.

As is complaining about the circumstances only in places where one didn't win.

[Martin Eden]

65. No, it's not.

I'll not get into your characterization of the issues involving open primaries and caucuses, which is besides the point.

The point is that Bernie Sanders is not in this for himself.

[CrowCityDem]

30. I'll respect him when he calls for the elimination of the unfair aspects that helped him.

[All in it together]

46. The Democratic Party will wither on the vine without the people who became independents

We want to win elections? Or do we want an old Democratic "boys" club to decide who we get as candidates. That's why we need more open primaries.

Times have changed and if the party won't change many people will go Republican, Independent or just apathetic. The Democratic Party shouldn't be serving the fat cats of big business.

[oasis]

47. Join the Dem Party if you wish to choose our nominee. Otherwise, get lost.

[floriduck]

51. Forget about how this election cycle. Leaving the votes to the people is just the right thing to do

[Gothmog]

52. It is sad that Sanders does not want to address caucuses

I think that Caucuses are very undemocratic and should be eliminated

[B Calm]

53. Primary elections are paid for by TAX PAYERS! That said alone, they should all be open.

Voters more and more are feeling their party doesn't represent them anymore. It close to 50% of registered voters now calling their selves independents.

Along comes a candidate that inspires them and they want to be part of the selection process. You need to welcome these voters who are inspired by a democratic candidate. If you want their votes in November you should welcome them in the selection process, not turn them away.

[BeyondGeography]

55. His ideas on reforming the party should be utterly ignored

[B Calm]

57. Do you like the failed war on drugs?

[apnu]

62. I believe Bernie's mistake was not campaigning for party Democrats

Bernie never worked to gain the trust and support of already existing Democrats. I don't mean supers, I mean middle of the road, everyday Democrats. Instead, he tried to crowd out Democrats with new liberal Indys. He, and his supporters, made the Democratic party the enemy. Its no wonder rank and file Democrats rejected him.

Its great that he brought so many new and side-lined voters to the party, but he wasn't inclusive about it. His movement felt more like a hostile takeover of the Democratic Party, that doesn't win friends and influence people.

[pinebox]

63. I think Dems having closed primaries is an elitists dream & a joke

Yet Dems come crawling to indy and third party voters as they beg & pander for their votes in a GE.

What a steaming pile of crap & hypocrisy.

[democrattotheend]

74. I agree with you, mostly

If we could win the presidency with registered Democrats alone it would be one thing, but we can't. Neither can Republicans. A significant percentage of voters are registered independents and I think they should be allowed to vote in either primary depending on which candidate they prefer.

However, I am not in favor of allowing registered Republicans to vote in our primary, or having no party registration at all. That encourages strategic voting, which I don't think we want (although it might sometimes help more liberal candidates get nominated!)

I like California's system, at least in theory, where the primaries are open to non-affiliated voters but not to voters registered with other parties.

[mwrguy]

64. a cult leader is egotistical?

Imagine that.

[Number23]

72. ...

[Maru Kitteh]

68. I don't care so much about the 'why,' my reaction remains the same

If you can't be bothered to RSVP to the party, don't act all shocked and outraged when the menu items are chosen for you.

[Number23]

71. Absolutely. Just another politician. K&R

[democrattotheend]

73. When did he ignore the advice to reach out to African Americans?

I remember him trying hard to do so throughout the campaign, campaigning in places like the South Bronx where no presidential candidate had visited in decades.

I don't think his push now for open primaries is really self-serving, since it won't help him this year and it is unlikely that he will run again.