What is so difficult about letting Bernie exit on his own terms?

[cali]

It's not like he's bashing Hillary. It's not like he hasn't made it clear that he'll be working with her campaign to defeat Trump. The gleeful bashing of Bernie by many, many HRC supporters is childish and counterproductive.

I don't expect it to stop. In fact, my guess is that the petty malice will only increase.

A little self-discipline would cost little. Your candidate won. The losing candidate is doing her no harm. Maybe you all really do feel you don't need the votes of Bernie's supporters.

The lack of graciousness on the part of winning Hillary supporters is only matched by the lack of graciousness exhibited by Hillary supporters when she lost in 2008.

Can't you celebrate without attacking Bernie and his supporters?

[LexVegas]

1. Do you call for end to the bashing of HRC on this forum as well, in those threads?

[SheenaR]

3. Oh good grief

Check GD-P the last week. Almost 2 to 1 opposite of what you say. Many of us have been congratulatory.

Also, congrats. Only one hide in all of June. Progress.

[PaulaFarrell]

34. it's early days n/t

[Silver_Witch]

40. Well to be fair it is only the 15th.

There is time...there is time.

[cali]

4. I have. And furthermore, I stopped posting negative stories

about her a couple of weeks ago. One more time, bitterness on the part of the losing side may not be admirable, but it's certainly more understandable than the bitterness and malice of those on the winning side.

[LexVegas]

7. Fair enough. nt

[immoderate]

9. Bashing??! Does she want to be a 'public servant?'

--imm

[LexVegas]

15. The OP is about bashing a public servant.

[democrattotheend]

71. Actually, yes

I have seen cali call out fellow Bernie supporters who were out of line on many occasions. He/she has also defended Hillary and gone out of his/her way to say nice things about her.

[SheenaR]

2. Amen

And then the constant victim stance that it's all of us somehow piling onto them.

People need to check the front page and see the crap that's been said about a guy trying to improve our lives and our Party.

They won. They've spiked the football in the end zone long enough.

[Squinch]

11. After months of BS supporters outnumbering Clinton by about 8 to 1, and the BS supporters

on juries allowing even the most vile and disgusting posts which were nothing but personal attacks on Clinton supporters to stand (this one for example: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1107&pid=30492 ), Clinton supporters have been released from being gagged. It is not really surprising that they are letting off some steam.

This is mild compared to what went on here for months. And it will pass a lot more quickly than the months when BS supporters were spiking the football at the 50 yard line.

[SheenaR]

14. Please please

do not act like it was a one way street.

Both sides were awful at different points in this campaign. Right now is not one of those times.

And released from being gagged? Anti-semitic remarks usually require a gag on a website. So mind your own yard before worrying about the neighbors.

I would love to see some stats on hidden posts (if it were possible) to refute your 8 to 1 ratio. Because Sanders supporters posts, which gotten hidden in LARGE numbers, would not have been in the scenario you painted.

Enjoy your night

I apologize to Cali for getting away from her OP

[Squinch]

52. Whatever. 85% and 15%

[NCTraveler]

5. I'm still cool with him cali.

Has he said some things I don't like much? Yeah. So do a lot of Democrats including Clinton. I consider the aggravation to be a part of being a Democrat. I see his run as overall positive to this point.

[cali]

6. I know that, NC. You're setting a good example for your fellow

Hillary supporters and clash as we have, I appreciate it.

[arcane1]

8. Because there is a specific intent to discredit progressive ideology before the November elections.

These "New Dems" can't keep winning if actual liberal ideals are being discussed and given credibility.

[Demsrule86]

33. Oh please.

Your ideas lost and badly. We are all progressive. Bernie pretending like he invented something new is so much BS.

[arcane1]

48. Proving my point, but not clever enough to realize it

[elias7]

61. Your sig line reads "kindness and love". I'm not feeling it.

[arcane1]

63. Especially since the officially approved phrase for Barrier Breakers is "Love and Kindness"

http://correctrecord.org/barrier-breakers-2016-a-project-of-correct-the-record/

Some people just can't follow instructions

[choie]

75. We are all progressives?

are you kidding? you wouldn't know it by some of the posts around here...

[Doctor_J]

60. That's it on the nose. In this campaign they have had to reveal their conservatism, and they're

pissed.

[w4rma]

76. Exactly. They want all progressive candidates silenced. (nt)

[vintx]

88. +1

[grossproffit]

10. I haven't heard him say he lost.

[cali]

12. so what?

Do you think that's a good reason to keep bashing him and his supporters? As I said, what's the problem with letting him exit on his own terms in his own time?

I'll add a caveat to that: If he takes it to the convention, then the bashing will be justifiable. As of now, it is not.

[senz]

42. At present we do not have a nominee. Therefore, no winner, no loser.

The nomination will be decided at the convention.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016#Process

A candidate must win 2,383 delegates at the national convention, in order to win the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination.

Here are the pledged delegate counts:

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/delegate-targets/

UPDATED 7:09 AM EDT | Jun 15, 2016:

Clinton 2,218 pledged delegates won

Sanders 1,833 pledged delegates won

[CrowCityDem]

13. Actually, it's not clear at all he'll work WITH Hillary. Only against Trump.

[SheenaR]

17. Wait wait

According to your side's math:

Being against Hillary = Supporting Trump

Why then is

Against Trump NOT supporting Hillary?

Exactly.. Gotta teach us how it's possible to enunciate out of both sides of the mouth.

[CrowCityDem]

26. There's a difference between saying Trump sucks, and saying they should happily vote for Hillary.

[SheenaR]

37. Im sorry

But any criticism of Hillary is met with "HAVE FUN WITH TRUMP"

Bernie is saying he will do anything in his power to stop Trump, but that isn't good enough in this binary (used many times here) situation?

[CrowCityDem]

43. It's not enough, because "anything" includes a full endorsement. Otherwise, Bernie's a big fat liar.

[JonLeibowitz]

49. Nicely done.

[arcane1]

65. When one's job is to shit on EVERY thing Sanders does, consistency and logic go out the window n/t

[geek tragedy]

73. what things within his power to defeat Trump has Bernie done thus far?

Let's see:

1) Criticize Trump


That's it.

[renate]

16. as a Bernie supporter, I'm not sure what he's hoping for, but....

... I have to assume that his goal is just as it's been all his adult life--to give a voice to those who normally are not listened to, and to promote social justice and equality. Whether his influence has peaked already or won't peak till the convention remains to be seen. I suspect the former but maybe he'll be given a prime-time slot or something by staying in.

I've never thought that his continuing to stay in the race was about him. Well, maybe a little. It must be incredibly difficult to have come from SO far behind and to come so much closer than anyone would have dreamed possible.

But given that his entire life has been about progressive values, I think his main impetus is that he finally has a huge bully pulpit to use on behalf of those who desperately need it, after working all his life to get the powers that be to pay attention to the issues he cares about, and he wants to make the most of it.

[Demsrule86]

32. A person who can not admit he lost and play by the rules is not someone I

want anything to do with. He is hurting our GE effort and must concede...and soon...or we should just cut our losses.

[renate]

50. "play by the rules"?

He is playing by the rules. He's allowed to stay in until the convention. I'm not going to argue that it's the best choice, but he's playing by the rules.

And he's tacitly admitted he's lost. He's not campaigning any more or talking about trying to swing delegates. He just wants a role in the convention, which I think is fair enough considering how competitive the primaries were. A lot of people still really like what he has to say and really want the progressive point of view to be represented.

I don't want to get into an argument--I am sick to death of arguments on DU and at this point they're utterly counterproductive--but I think there could be valid reasons that Bernie has not officially ended his campaign.

[arcane1]

67. "He's breaking rules!" is a popular lie among this crowd n/t

[Silver_Witch]

45. Thank you and this is a wonderful post!

[Seeinghope]

68. Here here! I totally agree. Why is it not enough for the presumptive candidates supporters

bask in victory and be thankful and gracious instead of focusing on that really shouldn't matter to them any longer. Hillary Clinton appears to be doing wonderfully without Bernie Sanders and his endorsement and/or his supporters so why worry about it or even mention it. Rejoice and focus is on Hillary Clinton moving onto the White House. Be positive and move forward. Get out of the mud pit and just claim your victory!

[merkins]

18. One would hope

to see the same concerted effort so many Hillary supporters on here take in bashing Bernie as they will to Trump in the GE. Sometimes reading these forums leaves me wondering...

[Demsrule86]

30. Bernie and Trump are both opposition until Bernie concedes. nt

[JI7]

19. it's more about posters on du getting at each other

It's clear the campaign has moved on to the GE and nothing Sanders is doing is getting in the way of that.

[Demsrule86]

28. He is in the way...and must go, or he gets nothing.

How dare he refuse to concede when he as lost by all measures.

[NurseJackie]

20. Because many of his supporters see that as an EXCUSE to bash and smear Hillary.

The gleeful bashing of Bernie by many, many HRC supporters is childish and counterproductive.

And the mean-spirited smearing of Hillary by many, many SBS supporters is, what? Helpful?

Can't you celebrate without attacking Bernie and his supporters?

Apparently, ANY celebration and even the expression of joy is considered to be in poor taste and taunting. There's just no pleasing you guys. Always griping about something.

A little self-discipline would cost little.

... she said without realizing the irony of her words, and feeling a bit confused as everyone else began to chuckle audibly.

[LexVegas]

23. This. nt

[TwilightZone]

24. Yeah...

that.^

[Squinch]

77. This is very true. I have yet to see a celebratory thread for Hillary that has not been

shit on by zealots for BS.

[Demsrule86]

27. I don't consider many of Bernie's people progressive. nt

[Cali_Democrat]

22. Of course he's bashing Hillary

He said she wasn't qualified to be President.

Bernie is making himself irrelevant.

[cali]

31. I said he isn't currently bashing her and he hasn't been for the past

couple of weeks.

And no one with millions of followers and the mother of all email lists, can be classified as irrelevant.

[k8conant]

41. So she made herself irrelevant?

Hillary:

"I think he hadn't done his homework and he'd been talking for more than a year about doing things that he obviously hadn't really studied or understood," Clinton said in an interview on MSNBC's "Morning Joe," just one day after losing the Wisconsin primary to Sanders, "and that does raise a lot of questions."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/04/06/clinton-questions-whether-sanders-is-qualified-to-be-president/

Bernie: (I made the ifs bold because everyone seems to have ignored them)

I don’t believe that she is qualified if she is through her super PAC taking tens of millions of dollars in special-interest funds.

I don’t think that you are qualified if you get $15 million from Wall Street through your super PAC.

I don’t think you are qualified if you voted for the disastrous war in Iraq.

I don’t think you’re qualified if you supported almost every disastrous trade agreement.

I don’t think you are qualified if you supported the Panama free trade agreement, something I very strongly opposed, which has gave the green light to wealthy people and corporations all over the world to avoid paying taxes owed to their countries.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-qualified/477294/

[Squinch]

78. Your best argument is that Hillary has made herself irrelevant? OK, you go with that.

[Demsrule86]

25. He had to admit he lost. The healing process can't begin until he does that.

Personally, I don't think he will concede and endorse. If he has not done so by Monday, then we need to cut our losses...no convention goodies...and he is out of the convention after the first vote...he can not run a shadow campaign with the Democratic nominee...sorry he has to go and soon.

[Andy823]

29. I agree it should stop on both sides

I know we still have some trolls here, working both sides, and all they want to do is keep on stirring shit as long as they can, but both sides need to come to grips with reality and stop the bashing. Hillary won, no need to continue bashing Bernie. Bernie lost, no need to keep posting trash about Hillary. We need to grow up, and ignore the trolls, so we can unite and take on Trump, making damn sure he never become president.

[asuhornets]

35. We are waiting on his endorsement. Democrats allowed him to run as

a Democrat. It's time he endorse her. She won. He did not. Why is it so hard for him to endorse her?

[Squinch]

79. Yes. Till he concedes, he is the opposition and can't be having sadz that he is treated as such. It

is entirely in his hands how he is treated. He is squandering his influence and there is very, very little left to salvage.

[elleng]

36. Yes, grace would be nice to see.

[That Guy 888]

38. I found it strange until I read that Matt Taibbi story about the DNC elites view of this primary.

Last edited Wed Jun 15, 2016, 05:09 PM - Edit history (1)

Inside the Beltway, (according to Taibbi) the Democratic Party insiders view Sanders as: "an oddball amateur and radical who jumped the line" and "a kind of self-centered huckster who made a failed play for power". Something to think about when you see the "drop out Bernie" posts. It also explains the bizarre "Bernie has a Big Ego" posts, that make no sense to anyone familiar with Senator Sanders.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/democrats-will-learn-all-the-wrong-lessons-from-brush-with-bernie-20160609?page=3

[NurseJackie]

46. What an odd way to try and validate his legitimacy.

[Ned_Devine]

56. Taibbi nailed it. I mean, it's been so obvious all year

Anti left is not only our foreign policy but our domestic as well. What's surprising is the number of people on a site like this that don't seem to care about the rightward turn of "the party".

[bigwillq]

39. Nothing. He should do it on his own terms.

From all indications, he will drop out at some point between now and the convention, which is fine by me. Then it seems like he will work to unite the party and prevent Donald Trump from winning the white house, which is also fine by me.

[k8conant]

44. He can exit when the voting's done...

after I get to vote for him in Philly.

[blackspade]

47. Sore winners.

I think it's pure fear that he might somehow pull off a win if he stays in.
Otherwise why give a shit.

[LisaM]

51. Fine, as long as his terms don't include letting Republicans pick Dem candidates in our primaries

which, as I understand it, is something he wants - primaries totally open to Independents and Republicans. I do have a problem with that. It's not about trying to disenfranchise people. Anybody can be a Democrat. It's about people with different agendas meddling in the process of a party picking its candidate (I am not accusing people of necessarily doing that this time around). If there was no GOP primary or if it had been wrapped up earlier, the chance for mischief was enormous and it could have hurt Sanders as much as Clinton. I just think that needs to be off the table.

[cali]

55. I'm sure you realize that something like 19 states don't register

voters by party.

[LisaM]

70. I certainly do realize that.

And I think those rules should be tightened up. I also understand it is state by state. But I also read that he would like all open primaries and to the extent he wants the DNC to condone it, I say no thanks.

[bvar22]

66. Bernie does not make those rules.

Your problem is with the individual state Democratic Partys that have decided that this is what they want.
Take your problems to them....not Bernie.

[emulatorloo]

53. Amen, Cali. I simply don't understand this strange impulse some posters here have.

imho people just aren't actually listening to Bernie and what he is saying.

Instead they put words in his mouth and have these ugly knee-jerk reactions.

[stonecutter357]

54. I am from Alabama I know what bernie thinks of me....

[LuvLoogie]

57. Because he's a Democrat--supposedly.

[YouDig]

58. A lot of us really really don't want Trump to be president, and we see Bernie's actions at

best not being helpful to that cause, and at worst actually helping Trump.

This is serious. What's wrong with criticizing actions that my mind are currently placing his own sense of importance above the importance of defeating Trump?

[elias7]

64. The "ego" meme again. You so don't get It.

I'm pro Bernie and pro Hillary. The best thing about sanders always has been his selflessness. This meme is pure Rovian, and it is transparent and disingenuous to use it.

[YouDig]

74. So explain it. What is the point of what he's doing now?

He's not going to be the nominee. He's not going to be able to effect any actual changes in anything by doing this. He lost the primary. By a lot.

Right now, it's going to be either Hillary or Trump as president. And he's not helping, arguably he's hurting. Explain how something other than ego is driving this. There's nothing he can possibly accomplish that will actually achieve policy changes. Nothing that will help the 99%, or anyone else. He might satisfy some of his angry supporters by saying angry things. He can also piss of Democrats, which also will make some of his angry supporters happy, but accomplishes nothing. He's not going to get single payer, or anything else he campaigned on, by refusing to endorse Hillary.

In the real world, all he can do is make Trump more likely to become president. Explain why he's risking that.

[Doctor_J]

59. Many of them despise Sanders, and admit it. They also despise his supporters, and liberalism

altogether. Sanders and his supporters have exposed Mrs Clinton as a de facto republican with a lot of lying, flip flopping, and corruption in her past, and the cult finds that intolerable. They don't want healthcare, public education, an end to fracking, an end to dark money in elections, or big military cutbacks. They don't want liberals in the party, and they don't even want Sanders vote in the Senate. They are consumed by their hatred. That is the simple answer.

[TwilightZone]

69. That's one impressively ridiculous set of assertions.

"de facto Republican"



"the cult" - aw, aren't you just the cutest thing?

Clinton supporters don't want healthcare or public education? Sure, they don't.

"Don't even want Sanders vote in the Senate" - Good luck with that. This is one of the goofier assertions I've seen on DU.

"Don't want liberals in the party." - Considering that Hillary beat Sanders among liberals, I guarantee this isn't true.

You might want to think about looking in the mirror. It would seem that your assertion that others are consumed by hatred might be a wee bit of projection.

[LWolf]

83. I find this one to be more accurate.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2016

Style more than substance separates Trump from Hillary Clinton. After all, Trump was a generous donor to Clinton's senate campaigns, and also to the Clinton Foundation. Hillary is nevertheless disingenuously promoting herself as the centrist between an extreme right-winger (Trump) and an 'extreme left-winger' (Sanders). Abortion and gay marriage place her on a more liberal position on the social scale than all of the Republicans but, when it comes to economics, Clinton's unswerving attachment to neoliberalism and big money is a mutual love affair.

[In_The_Wind]

82. BTW ~ Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

[Doctor_J]

86. Almost all of my posts get alerted these days

[In_The_Wind]

87. Perhaps things will get better for you over the next few weeks.

Remember ... Trump is the one to fight not our fellow democrats.

[vintx]

89. Nailed it

[PJMcK]

62. It's not difficult at all

To any dispassionate observer, it was fairly obvious back in March and certainly by April that Senator Sanders would not win the Democratic nomination for president. However, he has the right to his convictions and principles and it's up to him to decide when to give up.

Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton will continue her march to the White House with or without Senator Sanders.

[geek tragedy]

72. he hasn't made it clear he'll be working with her to defeat Trump, he's only promised that

he rather pointedly has said there will be no endorsement before the convention. and as of yet hasn't even conceded that she won.

right now, there's a non-aggression pact, not an alliance

instead, his priorities are:

1) collecting scalps of people on his enemies list, like Barney Frank and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz;
2) trying to push a series of 'reforms' whose transparent purpose is to delegitimize Clinton's win, as the only thing they have in common is they address things that would have helped Bernie get more votes, upshot being "the voting process was unfair and that's why I lost"
3) acting as if he won and thus gets to write the platform
4) making demands of Clinton before he fulfills his promise to do whatever it takes to defeat Trump.

If he wants credit for making a promise, he doesn't get to attach strings.

when he says "she won because more people voted for her" then we'll know he's serious.

But he needs to acknowledge the legitimacy of her win and the need to respect the will of the voters--the latter point he clearly threw in rubbish when he pursued his stupid superdelegate flip talking points.

[eastwestdem]

80. Nothing. He should take all the time he needs. It certainly doesn't look bad at all. nt

[NanceGreggs]

81. Because he lost, and should have exited ...

... on the same terms as every other runner-up in a primary contest, not on the terms he seems to think he is entitled to dictate.

Think about this scenario: BS and HRC are at this point in opposite positions, i.e. Bernie is far ahead in delegates and votes, and he has far more SDs supporting him than Hillary does.

Now imagine the reaction from Bernie supporters if Hillary still refused to concede, started making demands, and refused to acknowledge Bernie's rightful win and endorse him unless those demands were met.

I can tell you what the reaction would be. The BS supporters would claim that Hillary was attempting to deprive Bernie of his rightful "win" and his place as the presumptive nominee. They would say she is an egotistical bitch who is lashing out because she can't handle having lost. They would say she is willing to sow disunity and discord rather than graciously admit defeat and get behind the nominee.

And if their positions were reversed right now, and people said those things about Hillary, they would be completely justified in doing so.

Where is Bernie's "self-discipline"? Where is his strength of character when it comes to saying "I fought a great fight, but in the end I lost"?

Where is the "Congratulations, Hillary, you won" message from the man who says he stands for "the People", but refuses to acknowledge that the People have spoken?

"Can't you celebrate without attacking Bernie and his supporters?"

More to the point, can't we celebrate without Bernie supporters continuing to attack us? Can't we celebrate Hillary's obvious "win" without having to listen to Bernie's self-serving demands, and his obstinate refusal to concede and endorse our nominee until those demands are met?

[hobbit709]

84. Because the Politburo does not ever want another challenge from an outsider.

[Lazy Daisy]

85. We must all be submissive first