Bernie just asked all of his followers to do everything they can to make sure Trump is defeated

[youceyec]

Better late than never

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/6c27bad0a18e4375b925fa388407ce7e/sanders-says-he-will-work-clinton-transform-party

[creeksneakers2]

1. It makes sense for his followers to follow

Bernie wants to start a movement. The movement will have a much better chance of accomplishing goals with a Democratic president.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

2. Yes, but wouldn't doing everything possible to defeat that shitstain Trump require installing Bernie as the Democratic nominee?

[SFnomad]

3. BS lost ... it's really time you people face reality n/t

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

5. What reality? I accept Hillary is the presumptive nominee, but the delegates have yet to vote, so she's not the actual nominee yet.

Bernie does better against Donald J. (Jerkoff) Trump... THAT'S the reality... all I'm sayin'.

[SFnomad]

8. And BS's "better" numbers are with him not having ANY negative campaigning done against him

which is a reality you people want to ignore. His "better" numbers won't last long when the Republicans run ad after ad calling him a Socialist ... with BS calling himself a Socialist.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

11. No, Bernie calls himself a "DEMOCRATIC Socialist"... advocating for many of the same social programs as Hillary. You do know the difference, right?

[Lord Magus]

13. You seem to have some issues with the "democratic" part of "democratic socialist."

Since you're not very supportive of democracy with your demand that the loser of the election be declared the winner.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

14. Not at all, I LOVE the democratic process, which process has not YET declared an ACTUAL nominee. Hillary is only the PRESUMPTIVE nominee, for which she most certainly is to be congratulated.

[SFnomad]

16. Of course I know the difference ... but are you delusional enough to believe that Faux "News",

the Tbaggers, Republicans and the rest of the right wingnuts are going to fight fairly? Really? And they're not going to be playing a "Socialist" tape on endless loop?



You're about as naïve as it gets.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

21. It's obvious from your misquote of Bernie's self-identified political philosophy, and now your embarassingly silly non-sequitur argument, that you don't know the difference...

It's REALLY okay if you make a mistake, even a blatently obvious one by calling Bernie a "socialist." That doesn't make you a bad person, not at all... just misinformed. Hey, no one's perfect, not even Bernie himself.

And, there's certainly no need to try covering up your mistakes, or feel embarrassed and show your friustration for making them by lashing out, using ad homimem attacks and straw-man arguments, against those who kindly point them out. A simple "thank you" - not to mention, a small dose of humility - would do.

[SFnomad]

23. ok, so you are that delusional ... gotcha n/t

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

27. Personally attacking me won't cover up your obvious mistake... it's there for all to see. But, why keep embarrassing yourself? Just admit it and move on...

I mean, the fact that you keep conversing with someone who's supposedly "delusional" says more about YOU than it does me.

Anyway, no need for you to get nasty... save your vitriol for tRump in the general. In the meantime, just apologize and strive to do better next time. (You're bigger than this.)

[SFnomad]

33. I made no mistake ... if you don't think that the right wingnuts won't try to Swift Boat BS with the

"Socialist" label, then yes, you are delusional. It's not personally attacking you, it's just stating an obvious fact.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

43. LOL! There you go again, conversing w/ a delusional person! haha! btw, I NEVER said right wingnuts won't Swift Boat Bernie... that's your ridiculous straw-man argument 2 cover up ur obvious mistake.

What I clearly stated was that YOU wrongly accused Bernie of being a "socialist"... here's the quote from YOU referring to Republican ads... "with BS calling himself a Socialist."

Bernie calls himself a "DEMOCRATIC socialist," not a "socialist." So, by your own admission, you yourself are actually "swift-boating" Bernie. You see how silly you sound? Just admit your mistake and move on... but you won't... you'd rather make transparent straw-man arguments that only serve to embarrass yourself.

Shame on you... you owe Bernie and all of his supporters an apology... which will gladly be accepted btw.

[SFnomad]

45. FFS, it's really no use trying to have a conversation with you people

Go ahead and continue to live in your made up world ... the rest of us will move on to the General Election

Do you really think a REPUBLICAN AD would call BS a "Democratic Socialist", when they can take him out of context and call him a "Socialist"? Which do you think is more red meat for their base? How often do right wingnuts take liberals out of context?

It's time for you to be honest about all this.

[tonyt53]

50. There would a be a constant reference to "proletariats versus tsarists".

That was the war cry of the Russian Revolution. This time it would be 99% versus the oligarchy. few over the age of 55 would ever vote for a socialist. Bernie's supporters evidently didn't learn much history in school so they never had bomb drills from the fear of a nuclear attack. I had one tell me that red-baiting didn't work any more. I just told them to ask somebody over the age of 55 - the people that do reliably vote.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

69. Ur funny! Of course, Right Wingnuts will call Bernie a socialist. U still can't show a quote where I said otherwise. Indeed just the opposite... multiple times!!!

I know you're not delusional like you accuse me of being, so maybe it's time for YOU to be honest and admit, by your very own (well-placed) argument against Rethuglians, you too swift-boated Bernie by claiming he calls himself a "socialist," which is blatantly false. Indeed, I quoted you... all we get in response are <crickets>

Instead of realizing your silly mistake, you only further embarrass yourself by dishonestly putting words in my mouth using "straw-man" arguments. Normal, decent people - like I'm sure you are - would realize their mistake, be honest about it, and simply say "I'm sorry."

It's really not that hard... I assure you I would gladly accept your apology (no hard feelings).

[SFnomad]

70. #SMH ... it's impossible to take you people seriously ... buh bye n/t

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

74. "You people"?... that's all you can come up with?! LOL, you're too funny! Thanks for the good laugh! Peace out.

[SFnomad]

76. Buh bye n/t

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

81. Take care... I wish you well.

[creeksneakers2]

87. I've seen Bernie call himself a plain socialist

He adds the democratic part when he's explaining himself.

[TwilightZone]

30. No, Bernie calls himself a socialist. Has for decades.

The Democratic Socialist thing is relatively new.

""Socialist" — the word is a loaded term and often a rhetorical weapon. But Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., seems to proudly claim it.

"Do they think I’m afraid of the word? I’m not afraid of the word," he said in an interview with The Nation published in July. "When I ran for the Senate the first time, I ran against the wealthiest guy in the state of Vermont. He spent a lot on advertising — very ugly stuff. He kept attacking me as a liberal. He didn’t use the word ‘socialist’ at all, because everybody in the state knows that I am that.""

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/aug/26/bernie-sanders-socialist-or-democratic-socialist/

It kind of astonishes me how little some Sanders supporters seem to know about their candidate.

[Lord Magus]

10. No it really isn't reality.

Throwing out the choice of the voters in favor of the loser of the primary would generate intense backlash. And Sanders wouldn't do nearly as well in the general as those polls from a month ago indicate.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

12. I think thoughtful Hillary supporters would umderstand if the Super Delegates had a change of heart and threw their support to Bernie...

Not saying it's going to happen... just that it could.

[Demsrule86]

18. No it could not happen.

And no, we would not understand. The first woman nominee is forced out and the nomination given to a Sanders? No, never happen.

[MyNameGoesHere]

19. In hypothetical unicorn land and wishing upon the indictment fairy

Sanders does do better. Back in reality he isn't even a consideration to people that add 1+1=2 and not some wild number like 20.

[WhiteTara]

54. Well since Bernie's delegates are flipping to Hillary

we can all but call her the nominee. I hope that Sanders means when he says that he wants his supporters to do all they can to defeat Trump, he means, vote for Hillary!

[brooklynite]

77. So, pretty presumptuous of her to be running campaign ads against Trump, right?

[Chasstev365]

36. WE KNOW SHE WON! As that your answer for everything?

How simplistic and childish of you. Keep feeding the flames of resentment and disunity!

[SFnomad]

39. I'm sorry facts cause you so many issues. Do you have a problem with the resentment and

disunity of BS cheerleaders constantly telling us that we should have coronated BS because he's the more "electable candidate"? Or is your outrage just childishly partisan based?

[Chasstev365]

44. Wrong!

I have admitted that Hillary has won and is the presumptive nominee. I have said I will supporter her over Trump in November.

What I won't do is think it was foolish to support Bernie in the first place, believe that all his ideas are "left wing fantasy" and stupid, and grovel to the Hillary cheerleaders on this site. Your bellowing "Hillary won" over and over again IS childish and will make Bernie supporters not want to vote in November. Is that your goal?

If the Obama supporters in 2008 had treated Hillary supporters, the way Hillary supporters treat Sanders supporters in 2016, I think President McCain would be finishing his second term. IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT?

[SFnomad]

46. Were did I say it was foolish to support BS in the first place? Nice strawman you're building to

tear down.

And I didn't say YOU haven't admitted that Secretary Clinton has won ... I asked you if your outrage was partisan based. I'll put it in simpler terms for you ... when you see a BS cheerleader go on and on about how BS should have been nominated because she's the "weaker candidate", is that enough disunity for you to say something to that poster as well ... or is your outrage just partisan based and you only go after Clinton supporters?

[Chasstev365]

48. And I never said Bernie should be nominated even though he is the weaker candidate

Do you agree that we need to start coming together or do you think people on both sides just like to provoke each other?

[SFnomad]

49. Ok, now you're just being willfully obtuse ... I didn't say YOU ... I'm asking you if your calling

out other posters for bringing disunity is just partisan based? Is it?

[Chasstev365]

51. We are done! Obtuse? Really?

[SFnomad]

52. Can't answer the question ... no matter how many different ways I ask it

[Lord Magus]

4. No. Why would it? -nt-

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

6. See my post above.

[creeksneakers2]

7. LOL

[Demsrule86]

20. Bernie thinks so obviously.

Of course, millions of voters disagree. We have our nominee.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

22. We have our PRESUMPTIVE nominee, for which Hillary deserves credit... now its on to the convention!

[Demsrule86]

25. It has never worked that way

and is a slap in the face towards our nominee Hillary Clinton and all women. Bernie has behaved horribly...and should he have a speech...which I hope he doesn't unless he concedes and endorses...I will not watch nor listen to it.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

29. Whoever loses needs to concede and endorse, no question. We then have to unite, as we have a common enemy, that shitstain of a human being - can you call tRump a human being? - on the other side.

[Demsrule86]

28. No a nominee should be elected not selected based on silly polls.

Why bother to have a primary...just run poll after poll.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

32. I hear you, but we had an election - as flawed as it was - and Hillary is the presumptive nominee. I may not like it, but I accept it.

[Demsrule86]

38. No we didn't

Sore losers can accept a loss. She won by millions of votes. Deal with the fact that people prefer her to Bernie Sanders and after listening to part of his 'speech' I can see why. Networks cut away...at that point.

[gollygee]

31. It's too late for that at this point.

The correct tense is: "Wouldn't doing everything possible have required installing Bernie . . ."

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

35. You're right, it's probably too late at this point. But, as that well-known philosopher once said... never say never!

[lunamagica]

86. "installing". Interesting choice of words. He lost in every way you see the primary, so for him

to be the candidate, the winner needs to be removed in order to "install" the loser...hmmm.

And no, you are wrong. "doing everything possible" means exactly that. Vote against Trump

[jillan]

9. He's been trashing Trump for months. And he hasn't been mincing words.

This is nothing new.

[Demsrule86]

26. Talk is cheap

He attacked Hillary for months too ...much more successfully...he can't fight Trump while staying in the race.

[eastwestdem]

15. I hope they listen to him. nt

[Demsrule86]

17. Right

The only thing he can do is endorse...why would his supporters vote for a candidate he won't endorse? Talk is cheap Sen.

[geek tragedy]

24. everything except, ya know, help the Democratic nominee win nt

[Demsrule86]

37. Talk is cheap

Everything he can do includes conceding and endorsing...and leaving the field. Why should supporters vote for a candidate he has not endorsed? Get out Bernie and go home...we got this.

[Armstead]

53. "We got this," A truly obnoxious attitude. You're just confirming the worst stereotypes

You want to operate at about 54 Percent strength by telling Bernie and his supporters to fuck off?

Good luck with that.

[Demsrule86]

57. At this point, it is clear we will have to do without Sen. Sanders

and his most ardent supporters. We have no choice and enough time has been wasted on Sanders. He can have his vote...still a nominee ....Weaver said so yesterday ...put his name in nomination ....lose and then leave. No speech unless he concedes and endorses before the primary.

[Armstead]

60. It's clear you have the political vision of a bat

You have no clue what Sanders may or may not do before or after the convention.

He'll likely continue to press for his goals and message -- and represent the people who support him -- while also making it clear that he's not going to try to defeat Clinton's chances in November.

And after the convention -- unless the Democrats adopt your attitude -- I can see him enthusiastically working hard to get as many of his supporters to vote for Clinton as he can.... UNLESS Clinton and the Party Poo Bahs and their minions decide to act like they own the whole place, and no one else matters.

[cloudythescribbler]

40. There is NOTHING "late" about Bernie on this -- HRC folk need to do everything THEY can ...

... do to defeat Trump and one of those things is to stop condescending/trashing/etc etc Bernie and his base.

Bernie has ALWAYS said he would support the Democratic ticket. He has also pulled many of his punches in the campaign, all the protestations about how hard he has been on Hillary notwithstanding. As of March 16, it was obvious to HRC and surrogates and her active supporters that her nomination was overwhelmingly likely, even if not inevitable, and no later than that there was ALL THE MORE REASON NOT to urge Bernie to drop out or tone it down or shut up or whatever. That and all the trashing and condescension to Bernie and his base ('better late than never' is an illustration of condescension, even if not consciously on the part of the speaker). Every effort needs to be made by surrogates and supporters of HRC to avoid all this kind of stuff that might reduce the chances of maximum support in the general against Trump

I am a Bernie supporter since day 1 of his candidacy who wanted to see him run -- and in the primaries as a Democrat -- even before he declared. I also support Bernie's clear position that he would not (all kinds of desire to the contrary coming from various quarters) bolt or otherwise do anything that would sabotage the chances of defeating Trump in November. Now that Hillary is the presumptive nominee (barring some kind of special crisis, eg w/the nonsense of emailgate, noting that nonsense can have serious consequences, as it did with Bill Clinton's impeachment in the 90s) I am concerned to see the highest percentage possible of Bernie's base unite behind Hillary in November to stop a very dangerous possible occupant of the White House. It is painfully OBVIOUS that all the trashing and careless condescension towards Bernie and his base runs contrary to that goal, as it has for several months now. If Hillary can get, say close to 90% of Bernie's voters and backers to support her, vs, say, less than 70%, the difference could be millions of votes, which in turn could be decisive

I would add that many of the changes and possible changes in the platform suggested by Bernie and backers would NOT cost Hillary any 'swing' votes and would help her chances; the zero sum game approach assumed in much of the MSM and HRC's supporters and surrogates is simply wrong

I have other ideas -- eg a MASSIVE focus on whatever internet chatter from jihadists there has been and is celebrating Trump and the possibility of his becoming president, something MASSIVELY SLIGHTED in the MSM -- on how to defeat Trump.

Personally, I would want unsure Bernie voters, especially in swing states, to stay active and vocal of their concerns on DU, so they can be won over, and then hopefully win over some of their colleagues, but apparently that isn't the policy

[Demsrule86]

41. As long as he remains in the race, he is not supporting the Demcracic ticket. nt

[jonestonesusa]

56. There is no Democratic ticket.

Clinton was always the favorite in this race and now she's the presumptive nominee. But there is no Democratic ticket at this time - no convention vote, no vice presidential candidate.

I'll rephrase a delegate math line that I heard so many times - why don't you people understand that there is no Democratic ticket until the Democratic convention?? Especially when Clinton failed to win a majority of pledged delegates in the primary season, despite running for president since 1992??

[Demsrule86]

63. Oh right...because the first woman has to wait until the convention to be legitimate

No other candidate has ever had to do so...(all men) but she has to...I didn't understand at first...it took mansplaining and finger wagging from Bernie...

[jonestonesusa]

66. So now it's sexism...

in true Hillsplaining fashion - ignore policy differences and basic election rules whenever it's convenient, since it's all about gender.

Rock on.

[Demsrule86]

75. Yes it is sexism...no male presidential candidate has ever been treated this way.

Obama won by a very small margin of delegates...and lost the popular vote...but there was a chorus of demands for Hillary to step aside...and she should have. she did it with grace and really helped him win. But this year she has been treated like shit/ no man has had to wait until the convention to be considered legitimate...and it is really too bad in 2016...a self - declared progressive like Bernie would act like this.

[cloudythescribbler]

67. don't you see that playing the gender card DOES NOT HELP HILLARY here?

the point is to WIN OVER my fellow supporters of Bernie for the general election. A trumped-up charge of sexism (which has nothing to do with the issue) only tends to ALIENATE Bernie supporters whose votes are needed in November

There is ABSOLUTELY no rush to 'supporting the Democratic ticket' (even before any VP nominee has been put forward. What is important is NOT when Bernie does so but, when he does so and on to November, how successful the Democrats are in winning over the Bernie base, many of whom will NOT go along with him and vote for Hillary in the general. Of course, the main concern here is in the swing states in the general; if Bernie voters in Idaho or here in MA want to vote for Jill Stein, that doesn't worry me as it doesn't change the outcome of anything.

Bernie has reasons that have nothing to do with gender to pursue the course he is pursuing, with the longer view of building up the (relatively) progressive-left wing of the Democratic Party for after November, getting some key concessions in the platform (note as I said that MUCH that is pursued would NOT tend to cost Hillary any cumulatively significant votes in the general). There was lots of bitterness in 08 and PUMAs and so forth, but we Obama supporters didn't provide the kind of ammunition for their rejection that is being put forward insistently here, almost as if folk were glad to alienate as many Bernie Sanders supporters as possible and then blame them for a Trump victory in November.

Neither now nor in the past has Bernie been unduly or unusually harsh w/Hillary, quite the contrary; the notion that she is being held to stricter standards of legitimacy because of her gender is simply nonsense -- and it only serves to alienate needed Sanderistas from electing her in the fall

[Demsrule86]

72. The truth helps everyone.

Why should the first woman presidential nominee be treated so disrespectfully by a finger-wagging Sanders and his supporters? AS for the woman card...deal me in. It is about time! I am thrilled to see a woman about to win the highest office and won't allow Sanders to steal my joy.

[cloudythescribbler]

80. there are good and bad ways to 'play the gender card' -- accusing Bernie of sexism is the latter

The point here is to win the general. You cite the interest in "truth". But really we are talking about tact and political strategy. Even if you think someone is sexist (I think you are wrong and I am very happy about the prospect of a woman as president, even though we are talking about a neoliberal, which I oppose.

You just can't get away from calling Bernie "finger-wagging" and so forth. I don't know if you remember how Obama supporters treated Hillary & her base once the primary voting was over, but there was A LOT that we resented from the campaign. But there was no use in bringing it up at that point -- the point was to win against McCain, who has recently tried to blame the Orlando Massacre on Pres Obama, then pseudo walked it back by saying he blamed Obama's policies but not the man.

There are ALWAYS negative feeling about a candidate you just ran against. There are still ill feelings being expressed about Hillary (tho on this site not for long). But at this point, my focus is on (a) pursuing Bernie Sanders' political agenda for the platform and the Party to and thru the Convention and (b) building a base for the future of the (relatively) left wing of the Democratic Party along with the central goal up to November of keeping Trump out of the White House (as well as Democratic races for Congress). But I see no purpose for my agenda right now of attacking Hillary personally (eg 'finger-wagging') no matter how I feel.

It is often a good time for what you term "truth", but not automatically and not always. Even if I agreed with your condemnation of Bernie as sexist and pedantic, which I don't, I still disagree on strategic grounds

[Demsrule86]

58. I would add that the loser should not make demands.

Concede and endorse or go home.

[cloudythescribbler]

83. why should the losing candidate not seek concessions at the Convention?

On may issues, like banning closed primaries, there might be a LOT of Hillary supporters (the NY Times endorsed Hillary and also opposes closed primaries, eg) who would join with Bernie. These are mostly issues that would NOT cost the Dems votes in the general, although some disputed plank issues might.

As someone who supported Bernie since day 1 and URGENTLY does NOT want to see Trump in the White House (radicals like me are at real risk from people like that in power) I see NOTHING to gain by telling Bernie to 'concede' and shut up or go home.
This ONLY tends to alienate Bernie's base

It's almost as if the goal were NOT to win in November, but to set the stage for blaming Bernie and his base for Hillary's defeat in November if indeed Trump wins

[NurseJackie]

42. Notice that he didn't use the positive and affirmative phrase "help Hillary to win" ...

... I guess that would be too much to ask for him to actually acknowledge directly that she is our nominee.

Oh well, I guess passive "support" by using the negative phrase of "defeating Trump" is better than no support at all. (But behaving that way certainly can be viewed as pouting or being petty.)

Still, all things considered, I guess this is a move in the right direction ... even if it's one that's made grudgingly.

[leeroysphitz]

47. Well I plan to NOT vote for Trump but that really is all I can do this election cycle...

[Demsrule86]

59. Wow...so underwhelming...Trump thanks you for your support I am sure...

This is why I say don't give Bernie anything...he can't deliver his voters so why bother? Put the stuff in the platform that is agreed upon by all..but please send West packing...no more deals with Bernie.

[leeroysphitz]

65. :)

I can't speak for all Sanders supporters but I just care more about policy than the cult of personality.

[cloudythescribbler]

84. are you a voter in a swing state? nt

[leeroysphitz]

85. I'm a swing in a voter state. n/t

[NurseJackie]

78. After all, you do have your pride.

[aikoaiko]

55. And still, we get the, "Sorry, Bernie, not good enough" response from many HRCites.

[Demsrule86]

61. Nothing Bernie has done ...all talk anyway is good enough.

Concede and endorse is good enough...short of that...he needs to leave the field.

[aikoaiko]

62. In time he will. And I like Bernie's talk. Its also why I liked Obama. Remember hope and change?

[Demsrule86]

64. Times up

Soon it won't matter. I was an Obama supporter from the get go...although I never disliked Sec. Clinton. Obama is nothing like Bernie.

[aikoaiko]

68. Apparently, time is not up. HRCits are just mad because he's not kowtowing.

If nothing else, the convention will happen and it will be over. I'm sure Bernie will endorse HRC at some point.

If it doesn't matter, then at least HRC folks will stop whining about him.

[Demsrule86]

71. No, We are angry at the disrespect shown by Sanders and his hardline supporters towards

the first woman presidential nominee...how the rules somehow don't apply to her. She has to wait until the convention to be declared legitimate...and all the mansplaining and finger wagging is getting old.

[aikoaiko]

73. There are no rules, only conventions and party politics. Bernie often breaks from convention.

Really, its not about Hillary being a woman, although I do understand and appreciate the significance of her accomplishment.

There will be plenty of opportunity to celebrate -- especially when she becomes president. The real prize for women.

[Demsrule86]

79. Well unconventional Bernie has shown completel disrespect towards Sec. Clinton.

[CrowCityDem]

82. He says "everything" and "anything", without ever saying "vote for Hillary". It's petty, and sleazy.