2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSanders' demands & the path forward - What if it were two men?
Last edited Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:40 PM - Edit history (1)
Pardon my girl-dar, but I'm catching a little whiff of less-than-equal treatment and paternalism in the media's treatment of Mr. Sanders and his behavior since the end of the Democratic primaries. It saddens me to my core to say this, but I have come to believe that Mr. Sanders would not be making demands of his victor if he had lost the same contest to a man, and more importantly; I do not believe the media or so many others would be entertaining it with any seriousness were the contest between two men.
The content of the demands Mr. Sanders is making of the party he so recently joined has been noted and addressed by the media as transparently self-oriented. That's fine, but what about the very fact that this man who lost, is now not only failing to concede graciously in accordance with all traditions of politics and basic sportsmanship to the female who bettered him, but also making demands targeted most pointedly at powerful women (and fewer men I notice) in the party?
When Mr. Trump mused that he may remove the chairman of the RNC if he won his party's nomination, the statement was treated rightly as vindictive and childish; a threat to act as a spiteful and belligerent winner. Mr. Sanders is the loser, not the winner, and yet he has not merely mused upon, but demanded the right to oust the powerful female chair of our party and install his own choice.
Unless and until Mr. Sanders makes a gracious concession and changes his tone towards the nominee and the party he so recently hooked his wagon to, the Clinton campaign and the Democratic Party should quietly dismiss him. This is not an appeal merely out of reaction to discerned paternalism, but also a matter of respect for the voters, and the future of the party.
We should not set a precedent in this party whereby the runner-up gets to pick the platform, blame and subsequently oust the chair because they are mad about losing, and in short, demand that the party bend to the will of the losing campaign. This would make a mockery of voting. The voters choose a winner because they trust that winner and her/his vision to carry the party forward. The voters speak to endorse a leader who will shape the platform, the party organization, the process, and the Presidency. To cede leadership to the losing campaign is to disrespect the entire process and point of asking voters to make that choice.
That the winner of the process becomes the leader, that the victor chooses the path forward has never been a subject of question before, so why would it be now? On what basis might this man who lost feel entitled to dictate to women of power in this party what course they should take? I am a big believer in Occam's razor. Most often the obvious answer is in fact the correct one.
If someone can demonstrate an example of a time when Mr. Sanders lost to a man and behaved in a similar fashion I'm willing to look at it objectively and reconsider. We do have another example, curiously enough, of Mr. Sanders losing an election to a woman, and how he behaved then.
That Time Bernie Sanders Said He Was a Bigger Feminist Than His Female Opponent
Some of the parallels are rather stark and a bit disquieting.
The two-term governor who defeated Sanders endorses Hillary.
When Bernie Sanders ran against me in Vermont
Again, if someone can demonstrate Mr. Sanders showing this kind of pettish fractiousness following contests with men, I will happily give it fair reading.
Any parts or points of Mr. Sanders agenda should be brought forth as a request, not a demand, in the spirit of cooperation. The Democratic Party, with Hillary as the leader elected by the Democratic voters, should then decide what points to consider or adopt as she sees beneficial to the party and her campaign moving forward. It's obvious to many that the changes Mr. Sanders is demanding for the party he just recently and only "kind of" joined, are not-too-coincidentally exactly the ones he thinks would have allowed him to win. It seems rather self-serving because it is; but nonetheless it seems likely the campaigns will search for common ground.
There is room on the path forward for Mr. Sanders, but there must be no doubt that it is Secretary Clinton, at the behest of the voters of our party who has been chosen to make those decisions great and small that will guide our journey.
LexVegas
(6,041 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)a complete mental case.
Instead of the kid gloves and serious talk about the media pays his demands, like they were legitimate, it would be "why doesn't somebody come get her/help her/yank her off the stage?"
The Wielding Truth
(11,415 posts)mounting an economic revolution.
Man or woman, Bernie has a cause, not an ambition. That is the difference.If you lose a bid for office does the cause go away? No.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)the day after the primary...tell the truth.
The Wielding Truth
(11,415 posts)economic revolution with only individual contributions of small amounts. Bernie is dancing with the ones who brought him and he won't let the band packing up make him drop the hands of his partners.
That's who He is working for.
Again Hillary will be are nominee and he and I will use our doggedness to make sure she is our President.
Let all those, who treasure Bernie's vision give Hillary the hand up to the Leadership position and hold her to the dance of a better social and economic society. She can do it. We must help her.
I will not let go of my desires for a better country and world.Would any Democrat buckle to selfish right wing pressure or the insane fear of random crazy violence? No, not us DUer's.
Rise around these ideals and don't let go. Now. Through the convention. Through Nov 8,2016 and Beyond.Push with Bernie. Push with Hillary. Let's get moving!
Dustlawyer
(10,494 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)He lost the contest. He refuses grace in defeat. Bearing in mind, his influence diminishes daily (as evidenced by widening polls) would grace diminish his cause, or help it?
The Wielding Truth
(11,415 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)Ya'll just can't stop yourselves, can you?
If such time should arise that Mr. Sanders finds it within himself to affect some display of sportsmanship, I will credit him with achieving the minimum standard of behavior that we expect of our children.
We teach small children that at the end of the game, you shake hands with the team that beat you and congratulate them on their win. Mr. Sanders thus far lacks this simple sportsmanship or grace.
The Wielding Truth
(11,415 posts)a side bar considering the circumstances. He has probably already told Hillary personally that he will fight with her. He cannot relinquish the bully pulpit now and give her his voice. This is a bigger fight than who is the nominee. We all know it is Hillary. It has been Hillary since the start of the race.Sanders is the anti-brainwashing agent that might cut through the manufactured idiocy that has been corrupting this country for @40 years. It has grown to the point where we seldom even see the distortions. We hear the "Democrat" Party so many times that we don't fight the slam. We hear our friends and neighbors say how terrific it is that Trump speaks his mind while he is being endorsed by the KKK. Honestly. Bernie despite his nonpublic apology is a spark of sanity and open American spirit.I'm not saying Hillary does not have both. I am saying that we need a big step out of the 1% Hell of Political control.
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)As for the "probably already told Hillary", it lives only in your head. There is no evidence thus far.
lapucelle
(18,229 posts)from a candidate who joined a political party only to exploit it and then expects it to bend to his petty, vindictive whims and spent his donors' money renting a jet to fly off for a 36 hour publicity stunt with family and friends. It's entitlement, plain and simple.
The Wielding Truth
(11,415 posts)Entitlement? He is only delivering a fight that he promised when he was recruited. I have been following him for@ 10 years and he does not have petty or vindictive whims. He is stead fast in economic change. He has been the voice that rises to fight Citizen's United. He rails against the injustices that have been growing under the Right Wing Republican thumb.
Your view is clouded by his race against Hillary and that is unfortunate because they are both on the same side. He just thinks as many do that dealing with the ideology of the Republican base is better head on. If you can explain the facts to the masses without selfish conservative spin then even the backward leaning press cannot twist it too much. I think that is why so many young people get his message.
When the dust settles and Sanders stands with Hillary you will see how his dogged personality will pay off for our Party an our Country.
DLCWIdem
(1,580 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)So your assertion crumbles under the weight of fact.
Also: this "he has a cause and that's why he refuses to be gracious and acknowledge that he lost" thing is so very silly and thin a middle-school debate class could poke a hole in it with a marshmallow.
If you are gracious and congratulate your victor, does your cause go away?
Yavin4
(35,427 posts)In this case, this is all about Bernie's ego, not his causes. Bernie, and his followers, believe that the force of his personality is enough to implement the changes that he calls for. No political nor legislative strategy is needed. No real organization. No nothing. Just have a rally and everything will magically happen.
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)like SBS asked them to. Their response? Not really.
MSNBC: What is the plan now that BS isn't competitive for the nomination?
Supporters: We're going to wait and hope he gets the nomination.
Only 218K viewers for his little stunt last night. Kind of pathetic, even for a digital band-wagon revolution.
shadowandblossom
(718 posts).
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)Maybe all of them.
shadowandblossom
(718 posts)Not saying the Burned Out One is as bad as Trump mind you, just behaving like another old, rich, white male trying to usurp power from the people who actually earned it and be "coronated" against the direct will and voices of the people, of the voters. I wish he would grow up. He's no Trump but he's just engaging in some pretty pathetic behavior right now.
The Wielding Truth
(11,415 posts)lapucelle
(18,229 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 19, 2016, 01:45 PM - Edit history (1)
Sanders's concession demands include a few that are highly personal and seem purely vindictive.
The Wielding Truth
(11,415 posts)Let's play nice now and win the White House for the good of the Country.
jmowreader
(50,546 posts)Anything he wanted to accomplish in his political life, he should have done by now.
7962
(11,841 posts)Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)used to say..."Ginger Rogers did everything Fred Astaire did, except backwards and in high heels." So it is still.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)You actually believe this?
LexVegas
(6,041 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)shadowandblossom
(718 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Laughable indeed
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)Why else is she only one in our history to be treated this way? n
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)the complete lack of examination and obvious double standards are quite in your face.
WhiteTara
(29,699 posts)How many women on his staff? How many female ADVISERS?
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)WhiteTara
(29,699 posts)shadowandblossom
(718 posts)Adorable!
George II
(67,782 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)"So Sanders is only running because Hillary is a female?"
And I still say that I don't think anyone said that.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)And the fact she is now going off on the standard 'mansplain' strawman proves me right.
George II
(67,782 posts)So you agree with me that no one ever said that but, as a stretch, "implied" that.
Well, thanks. Time for dinner for me.
DLCWIdem
(1,580 posts)There are no state elections left. he lost pure and simple.
Response to LexVegas (Reply #1)
Maru Kitteh This message was self-deleted by its author.
eastwestdem
(1,220 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)Bernie lost this thing in an old-fashioned drubbing, yet feels entitled to act like he's a co-nominee.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Arkansas Granny
(31,513 posts)Did you forget that part?
brush
(53,758 posts)At the convention Hillary also stopped the balloting and asked that Obama be declared the nominee by acclamation.
That's what's called maturity, humility and grace.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Arkansas Granny
(31,513 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)how you felt about it then and how you feel about Bernie not conceding now?
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)and eventually the loser would endorse the winner.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)That Sander is treating the first woman nominee like dirt...it matters.
Arkansas Granny
(31,513 posts)that she was doing the right thing. It was clear that Obama had received more votes and more delegates and there was nothing to be gained by pretending that the contest was not over.
Frankly, I'm puzzled by Bernie's refusal. He has to know by now that there is no chance that he will be the nominee. I would have expected him to concede, endorse Hillary and encourage his supporters to do the same.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Then Sen Obama has more delegates after all the states had voted (as Hillary does now). Every day that Bernie keeps this up he's losing more and more leverage. Now he's just pissing people who aren't already his supporters off. The media will start ignoring him and nobody will care what he wants by the time the convention rolls around.
liberal from boston
(856 posts)It is well known that Hillary had a private meeting w/Obama & asked him to appoint her SOS to create a path for a future Presidential Run & also that he would help her pay off her campaign debt. Hillary is all about her--she is the one who has an ego problem. The stark contrast between Hillary & Bernie is obvious. Bernie's speech to his supporters was just beautiful--not about him but continue working together for the middle class, poor, raising minimum wage, moral economy, climate change, etc. Senator Sanders urged supporters to get involved in local, state & federal politics & to run for office as their passion, fresh ideas are needed.
Arkansas Granny
(31,513 posts)regarding the SOS appointment? I've heard that rumor before.
Also, if Bernie is urging his supporters to get involved in politics at all levels, why hasn't he been stronger in aiding down ticket candidates in their races?
BlueMTexpat
(15,365 posts)please post a credible link about this.
jmowreader
(50,546 posts)She didn't want to leave the Senate, so Obama had to ask her to do it repeatedly.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)...just like Clinton did when she ran against Obama.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)to be even having this discussion, because *HE* never would have made it this far to become the presumptive nominee.
Has Hillary been treated differently because she's a woman? MOST CERTAINLY...
... because some women have supported her just because she's a woman.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)better for women than HRC. It's disquieting.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Policies make the politician, not gender.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)If so, explain where I am wrong.
Thanks in advance!
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)In your viewpoint as to what is good for me. And I don't respond to demands from males on policies affecting women. When you have a uterus, I'll listen.
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)sheshe2
(83,708 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)So its you that has the problem?
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)You guys aren't very good at this.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)She can clarify is I am wrong.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)It's just a typical feminist bashing response to automatically assume that a feminist hates all men. That kind of compartmentalizing makes for a really lazy argument.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)But does not.
brush
(53,758 posts)Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)shadowandblossom
(718 posts).
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)and I will object when men make sexist remarks as well as when women make sexist remarks.
shadowandblossom
(718 posts)Thanks for your "help" Rick. Maybe direct it somewhere useful to equality if it's really so important to you.
shadowandblossom
(718 posts)into telling women we are not discussing the issues in a way that is sufficiently comfortable to you online.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)over...must earn his concession...she is being treated horribly and it is no coincidence she is the first woman nominee.
shadowandblossom
(718 posts)society is. Women are the ones we need to target to behave and be fair here.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)shadowandblossom
(718 posts)His old fashioned behavior is tiresome and outdated.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)How about his hair?
Don't discuss issues, attack his age and looks.
I am done with you.
shadowandblossom
(718 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 17, 2016, 03:35 PM - Edit history (1)
Bye
shadowandblossom
(718 posts)That'll fix gender equality and ensure equal rights for women.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)play fair here. That's where the real problem in our society is. Women are the ones we need to target to behave and be fair here." I think that's kinda sexist, isn't it? Your words, "Women are the ones we need to target to behave..." I disagree.
shadowandblossom
(718 posts)because you don't understand? I expect it's intentional looking at the other reply you made.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)should have used the sarcasm smilie for the ironically challenged. Sheesh. The stupid...it "BERNS"
treestar
(82,383 posts)Yes, Republicans women may not be as good. Any Democrat would be better, male or female.
Here it is not the policies, it is the underlying behavior. When it is different than it has ever been before and the opposition is taken to the last end, you have to wonder if it had been another man, would things have been done the gentleman's way. Look at how they treated President Obama- none of the traditional respect they demand for the office, carrying on way past their usual limits.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #41)
rhett o rick This message was self-deleted by its author.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)I am married to the best guy on earth.
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)"But I am married to a good man" is so wrong. Please, please, please, please don't take this statement of mine to be any kind of criticism of you in any way shape or form. It is NOT.
I had to fight against myself really hard just now to keep from doing the exact same thing.
We are so accustomed to defending ourselves from male attack in the form of stereotypes those same males have deemed negative. We all know what they're trying to paint us as, what they mean with belittling statements about "hatred for men." They mean the trademark man-hating lesbian she-beast.
I've decided it's none of their business that I've been married to a male feminist for X number of years or anything else that upsets their small-minded preformed schema. So what if I were a 485lb lesbian with half a set of teeth, a bad haircut and a dartboard on the wall sporting pictures of randomly rotating men and their genitalia? It would not make the truth of my statements any less true.
Feminists understand that a man has no credibility and no right to dictate to a woman what is best for her when it comes to matters of her sex.
shadowandblossom
(718 posts)I think it's okay to make fun of the subconscious bro-code behavior though. It deserves mockery and I can't think of a better response when we are trying to discuss the issues and they are simply crying and deflecting by claiming we are discussing the issues wrong or pretending the issues are irrelevant/don't exist because they are not affected by them personally.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)I felt bad like I was being disloyal to my two best guys...my son and my husband but why did I feel like that I wasn't?
"I've decided it's none of their business that I've been married to a male feminist for X number of years or anything else that upsets their small-minded preformed schema. So what if I were a 485lb lesbian with half a set of teeth, a bad haircut and a dartboard on the wall sporting pictures of randomly rotating men and their genitalia? It would not make the truth of my statements any less true."
I love that!!!!! So true... I can just picture her throwing those darts...hahahaha
Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #130)
shadowandblossom This message was self-deleted by its author.
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)It's not about feelings, it's about behavior.
I had to delete my own, very similar statement to yours. Then I thought "wait a minute, I do NOT need to justify anything here to this person, and my personal life is not relevant to the facts of paternalistic behavior."
DLCWIdem
(1,580 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)and no longer deferring to men, that's feminism, not hatred of men. Surprised you'd pull out that right wing meme.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)I fully support women and women's rights and issues. I do not support the idea that women are free from criticism just because they are women. The Left has always been very supportive of women and women's right, even more so that the so-called centrists (corporatists). Why disparage the Left?
treestar
(82,383 posts)Just extra criticism that wouldn't be produced for a man in the same position. Extra scrutiny.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)mostly by conservatives to shut down a discussion. You can't fight sexism via sexism.
treestar
(82,383 posts)All criticisms are not called sexist. Just the extra ones that would not apply to a man. Comments about clothes, hair, age. Extra pickiness about what she does where men get some slack.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)ridiculing others, but I have not seen such posts. I agree with you about comments about clothes, hair, age as not appropriate but would point out that those same comments seem to be ok when applied to Sanders.
But this, "Extra pickiness about what she does where men get some slack." Is too subjective.
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)what is best for women. We do not need to tell you our thoughts are wrong, our actions are wrong, our votes are wrong when it comes to matters of our sex.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)rights. Why would you show such vitriol towards progressives of any gender? No one on the left is high 5'ing over telling women what to do.
Progressives have historically done more for women's rights than conservatives, so why disparage progressives?
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)You keep pulling straw men out of there, and it's not working.
Men on this thread were high5ing over instructing women about what is best for them, as women.
Feminists know that sadly, this kind of behavior is not limited to any party or even ideology.
The mantle of progressivism does not absolve any person, male or female, from being called out on the truth of their behavior.
shadowandblossom
(718 posts)We have been so cruel to you! We should be discussing the "issues," just, provided they aren't the ones that impact us the worst.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)For fuck's sake.
Here are some more tips: (Excerpt from a recent thread)
1) Almost nobody will admit to it. Conservatives decided long ago that all such accusations (sexism, racism, homophobia, etc) are standard liberal bullshit whose only real intent is to shut down debate, and liberals tend to possess a sense of moral entitlement which leads them to consider themselves automatically exempt from all such accusations. (Side note: if you did roll your eyes above, theres a good chance Im describing you here. Sorry.)
2) Overt sexism is significantly more likely to be tolerated in our society than overt racism. It is a low-risk form of bigotry and discrimination that rarely damages professional or political careers. Because of this, far fewer people worry about crossing that line.
3) We have formed a sort of collective blindness to sexism that allows us to pretend that we are on top of the issue while simultaneously ignoring the many ways in which it actually permeates our society. (Side note 2: Theres a reason its called a glass ceiling.)
4) Unlike men, women who make demands are still often seen as unfeminine and inappropriately aggressive, bordering on deviant. And if the people most aggressively pushing against the glass ceiling are broken or deviant, its easier to justify dismissing both them and their concerns.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512188395
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)is best for them, as women." If this is happening then I don't support it, but I would like to see where this is happening.
I support women and women's rights and have always fought for them. I just don't understand the need to disparage progressives like I see in this thread.
shadowandblossom
(718 posts)Let's waggle our fingers at some uppity women.
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)Last edited Sat Jun 18, 2016, 01:25 AM - Edit history (2)
But we're progressives, so they have to listen.
shadowandblossom
(718 posts)the poor bros...
shadowandblossom
(718 posts).
SpareribSP
(325 posts)Your policies better for women. If that was the case, why not vote for Sarah Palin, Carlyle Fiorina etc? It's a question of policy.
Now Hillary obviously has better policy than Trump, but you could argue that some parts of Bernie's platform are better for women.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)The point is the first woman presidential woman has been treated like dirt...and conventions in place for decades now no longer apply. Finger waving mansplaining going on too...insufferable!
treestar
(82,383 posts)though the question is, is she being treated equally? The old saying comes to mind that a woman has to do five times as much to get a fifth of the credit.
peace13
(11,076 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)How and why it is your business is beyond me.
peace13
(11,076 posts)That is your job. Too comical.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)supporting fracking, the TPP and NAFTA? By moderate do you mean supporting the Iraq war and other wars for profits? or support blanket spying on Americans by the NSA/CIA? By moderate do you mean disparaging a living wage and the medical use of marijuana? Do I support Prisons For Profits? If that's moderate to you, then I am proud not to be a moderate.
There are two sides in this Democratic fight. To deny such is to ignore the vitriol spouted by each side. One side is clearly for helping the people, the Progressive Wing. There is no denying that. The other side seems to believe the corporations will do a better job of "helping the peopled". Some people prefer to call this Wing "moderate". It sounds so much better than corporatist.
Why do you hate the Left so much?
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)so I didn't bother to read your reply. If you are looking for your rear... I believe my sisters are still kicking it around up thread.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)shadowandblossom
(718 posts)know that. There is however, actual evidence that people will vote for men simply because they are men and have done so for hundreds of years.
athena
(4,187 posts)Everyone loves it when women hate women. The media loves it, and even some women love it. We just can't have women supporting other women; otherwise, we might get too powerful!
And of course, a woman supporting Hillary is the same as a woman supporting Palin or Fiorina. No difference at all. Because after all, when you're a woman, none of your views or accomplishments matter. Just the fact that you're a woman disqualifies you.
peace13
(11,076 posts)shadowandblossom
(718 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:22 PM - Edit history (1)
Paternalism is a theme with the people in power, even in the more watered down but still direly serious issues faced today. Yes, and that even with it's having been a focal point in her career. I hadn't seen the Donald do that yet... That is sort of chilling.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Add black people to that list.
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)difference.
We can forget him completely
Response to MariaThinks (Reply #7)
Post removed
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)prior to my comment attacking her clothes, her voice, her mannerisms and everything else about her.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)By desperate Hillary supporters with their gut wrenching warnings of gloom and doom?
TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)Now I can't stop watching it...and laughing. It's hilarious!
TYY
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)We WON, in case you didn't notice. You may not like it but the FACT is a woman won and a man lost. And now the man can't stand it.
But excuse me, we shouldn't worry our pretty little heads about politics; leave it to the menfolk.
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)If he gets on board before the convention, fine. Otherwise he should be quietly dismissed.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)It's like someone who plays a slot machine and wins a small jackpot, but not the JUMBO bells-ringing, siren-blaring, flashing-lights jackpot. Instead of being a smart player, calling it a day, and taking home the winnings, a greedy player will continue to play WITH their winnings until those are all gone too. Eventually, they go home with nothing, or with LESS than when they arrived.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Clinton is likely the first Democratic nominee for President. Great. Wonderful.
But that does not excuse her from the give and take of politics (or governing if she gets to the WH).
Sanders actions have nothing to do with the fact that Clinton is female.
That's just a handy way to dismiss the legitimate reasons he has been holding off on an endorsement (which he will most likely make at a time he believes is right.)
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)I give you what I believe to be true.
Edit to add; I do not believe his motivations for refusing to concede are gender-based. I believe his action in doing so at this point is influenced by gender. That's nuanced, but so is life.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)They happen to be correct on that....but it just shows to go you that Sanders holding off on an endorsement at this point is not about gender.
But obviously your mileage may (and does) vary.
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)Because the media treats a crazy a-hole like a crazy a-hole . . . what? What woman did he lose to (that's coming to be sure, but not yet) that he has refused to acknowledge as his victor?
Has Carly Fiorina refused to concede to him and made a litany of demands that are now being taken seriously by the media and I've somehow missed it?
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)in order to settle campaign debt...and this happened in 2012. Do you guys deliberately mislead...or is it intentional? She conceded because Obama might settle her debt with Obama fundraisers four years later? Really.
"Last week campaign disclosure reports revealed that Hillary Clinton had finally retired the debt from her 2008 presidential campaignwith a little help from the guy who beat her, Barack Obama. Clintons debt once totaled more than $20 million, although it had dwindled to about $250,000 by last year. Thats when a team of top Obama donors decided to surprise Clinton, and thank her for her loyal service, by raising enough money to pay off her bills. As secretary of state, she was forbidden from political fundraising."
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-01-28/obamas-parting-gift-to-hillary-clinton
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)her debts were settled in 2012...what remained of them by Obama fund-raisers as she was leaving the SOS job. They surprised her. Please stop posting stuff that is not true. I put this on the thread earlier.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-01-28/obamas-parting-gift-to-hillary-clinton
brush
(53,758 posts)The margin then was razor thin, not the near-landslide that Hillary has beaten Sanders by, and she conceded and actually halted the balloting at the convention by asking that Obama be declared the nominee by acclamation.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)He'll weasel around and never come right out and say explicitly that he supports Hillary.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)...since your psychic powers are so finely tuned?
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)DLCWIdem
(1,580 posts)mnhtnbb
(31,381 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Has it been the same for President Obama?
Nobody would shout "you lie!" at the SOTU, nobody would ever have crossed the line before. How come the traditional gentlemen's agreements no longer applied?
Response to treestar (Reply #93)
shadowandblossom This message was self-deleted by its author.
intheozone
(1,102 posts)DemonGoddess
(4,640 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)niyad
(113,207 posts)Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)finger waving and mansplained...and refusing to do the honorable thing and admit he lost the primary.
madamesilverspurs
(15,800 posts)comradebillyboy
(10,134 posts)snot
(10,515 posts)another candidate faced the same level of financial and electoral corruption, and shutting up about it resulted in a lower level of said corruption, I'm willing to look at it objectively and reconsider whether Sanders should back off.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)Of course Pres. Obama included women and POC in his campaign and made us feel welcome.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)LWolf
(46,179 posts)were a neo-liberal, the result would be the same.
If not, Sanders probably wouldn't even have run.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)That and the finger wagging and mansplaining...so condescending...so Sanders have you examined Clinton to know if you can ever deem her worthy of your oh so coveted endorsement...are you still in it to win it like Weaver said yesterday?
treestar
(82,383 posts)when it came to Obama, Hillary will get her share of it too.
Remember them meeting to make sure he only gets one term the night of the inauguration? If it was one of their white men, they'd be demanding unity on that day at least. Here their hatred exceeded their patriotism.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)I really wanted to believe Senator Sanders was better than this. I have defended him on this board, saying I believed he would keep his word. He has not. He is now actively working against the Democratic Party and its efforts to unify and present a united front to beat Trump into the ground.
And yes, I completely agree with your reasoning. Most especially about the media's coverage.
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)Reached out to extend olive branches even though my hand was bit time and again.
His little stunt last night opened my eyes, and I am genuinely saddened.
cloudythescribbler
(2,586 posts)Of COURSE Bernie will not only endorse Hillary by the end of the Convention, he will then go out and actively campaign for her
The question is what percentage of his base will follow suit. That is a huge question mark. If that percentage is as low as 65% (either not voting for pres or voting third party, or in a few cases for Trump) that really hurts Hillary. If she were to get over 90% (unlikely but possible) that would be huge difference
Even if it were fair to attack Bernie as a sexist, which I personally think is ridiculous, WHY DO IT NOW? Clearly the task is NOT to get Bernie and his base to clam up and line up asap, but rather to win the largest percentage possible of that base IN NOVEMBER, without correspondingly alienating swing voters who are moderate and considering voting GOP. That is the issue to debate on what changes might be made to the platform -- in addition to the merits of the issue or push, does it REALLY tend to drive away a significant number of swing voters to the Repubs? If not, why fight it? What is to be gained by all these threads (I have so far commented on more than one) accusing Bernie of sexism?
On this and an host of other memes from the HRC camp on DU (and elsewhere, eg twittersphere) this express hostility towards Sanderistas and Sanders is NOT calculated to win over the most Bernie-supporters, or others, but tends to do the opposite -- almost as if the goal were not so much to win as to blame defeat on Bernie & his base
stopbush
(24,393 posts)That's a steaming pile of privileged, self-aggrandizing bullshit.
Deny and Shred
(1,061 posts)no matter what she says or does.
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)without Sanders' endorsement.
He makes himself smaller each day. He's becoming the incredible shrinking Sanders.
stopbush
(24,393 posts)He's the three-year-old who stamped his foot too often and ended up getting disciplined, rather than appeased.
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)It's doubtless more familiar to him, and humans tend to stick with what's familiar. For SBS, that means spending 35 years in elected office, playing the outsider and screaming about "the establishment."
Cha
(297,029 posts)On Fri Jun 17, 2016, 09:46 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
I think he's happier being miserable. God knows he's had decades of practice at it
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2200461
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
What a nasty thing to say about Sanders who has fought for us for decades, would a post claiming Clinton is "happier being miserable" be allowed to stand? The attacks on both have to end.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Jun 17, 2016, 09:53 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This is an inappropriate post. Time to hide. A post like this about Hillary would also need hiding.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's negative, but it doesn't seem even vaguely worthy of a hide to me. Should everything negative anyone says about any public figures be hidden? I don't think that's an expectation here.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Nah.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Get a grip, Alerter.. She's allowed to have an opinion on BS that doesn't coincide with yours.
BS has brought this on himself after months of disingenuously demonizing the Democratic party.. and not even showing up for the Filibuster led by Sen Chris Murphy.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)Oh my oh my. So many alert stalkers, so little time.
Oh well. MONDAY.
Love ya Cha
Cha
(297,029 posts)The tables they are a turning!
Love ya back, Maru~
cloudythescribbler
(2,586 posts)for the sake of America and for progressives like myself. Trump is very scary. For a long time Bernie-backers have been warned that even the mildest of socialists was too much of a risk in the face of Trump. Now you say you don't need his base.
In the face of the Orlando Massacre, which over time could provide (with mega-advertising of fear from superPACs) the basis for a Trump victory, I remain more nervous than you. And if Bernie's backers, including in swing states, aren't needed for a Hillary victory in November, I'm totally OK with that
But if your optimism is NOT warranted, then I suspect Bernie & his base will be the first to be blamed
we shall see ...
kiva
(4,373 posts)this article is a tremendous embarrassment...but then, vagina=voting for Hillary in many circles.
Im soooooo sick of this 'everything is sexism' bullshit. Its at 'boy who cried wolf' levels already.
shadowandblossom
(718 posts)aside from his genitals, or like we should be allowed to discuss double standards in politics on a political message board.
kiva
(4,373 posts)are tired of hearing that any criticism of Hillary is about sexism.
shadowandblossom
(718 posts)I figure if it can vote it can talk too. Can't wait until saint Bernie is gone.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)Absolutely perfect!
BTW, my vagina is busy doing other things! I'll just vote with my hands and brain.
shadowandblossom
(718 posts)but according to the penis voters having a vagina is like being in a body snatcher movie where you've been taken over by aliens.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)voted for Palin. It is meant to be such an insult. But I won't take it as such anymore! Maybe we need a vagina card? hehe.
shadowandblossom
(718 posts)drinking, they might travel the world, or play cards together. If they can vote and engage in total mind control over us I don't see why they can't have cards too. Heck, why not? Why, I heard mine is thinking of being a pilot in the airforce--I hope there's not a height requirement...
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)And maybe 8!
rock
(13,218 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)The language of many of the Sanders supporters on this board suggest that they see things very much in terms of status displays and domination/submission dynamics. all the talk about ideals and principles and movements are little more than attempts to distract from the fact that Sanders has yet to acknowledge Clinton being the winner. I watched his whole speech yesterday, and while you could infer that he was the losing candidate from a careful parsing of his words, it's pretty pathetic that he can't simply acknowledge the fact that Clinton has ended the race considerably ahead of him.
His campaign went so far into demonizing Clinton that Sanders has now left himself in the position that he can't cooperate with her to win the GE and implement a more progressive agenda without getting labeled as a sellout by many of the people he's been pandering too in recent months. Sure, there were bitter words exchanged during the 2008 campaign too, like when one of Obama's surrogates referred to Hillary Clinton as a 'monster' - except that the surrogate in question was fired from that job immediately afterwards, because Obama rightly weighed the short-term political advantage that could accrue as being worth less than the potential gains from working together down the line.
Yes, it's true that Sanders has won about 45% of the vote, as he and his supporters never tire of pointing out...yet they seem deeply unwilling to acknowledge that Clinton has won about 55% of the same vote, and that having the larger number makes her the winner.
Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Wait a minute...
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)Worthy of expansion in itself. The delegitimatizing of candidates not elected with majority white male support.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)The preemptive nominee would recognize the fundamental differences separating their political philosophies, and the importance of 12 million voters to the hopes of their party sweeping GOPers from every corner of our political discourse. The two men would meet and try to figure out how best to move this agenda forward. After the meeting they would emerge talking about mutual respect and goals. In other words, they would do EXACTLY WHAT SECRETARY CLINTON AND SENATOR SANDERS DID.
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)better behavior from Mr. Sanders than he now shows. We teach small children that at the end of the game, you shake hands with the team that beat you and congratulate them on their win. Mr. Sanders thus far lacks this simple sportsmanship or grace.
A woman refusing to concede to a man in the face of such a thorough defeat, while also continuing to shout red-faced demands of her victor would be torn limb from limb by the media and treated as a mental case here and elsewhere.
As I stated earlier in this thread, I do not believe his motivations for refusing to concede his defeat are based in gender. I do absolutely believe his action in refusing to concede is greatly influenced by gender at this point. This is nuanced, but so is life.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)correct spelling in a message board post, dear?
Here's the difference between Secretary Clinton and folks like you. She lives in the real world where she deals with REAL party dilemmas. You live in a world where you can act like a petulant child because 12 million Democratic voting someones see the world differently and someone named Sanders won't let their voices go silent just because he lost.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)and endorse without reservation ...Hillary Clinton.
shadowandblossom
(718 posts).
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)I bet Sanders would not say that Senator whoever had to impress him and agree with him and kiss his derriere though. That is treatment reserved for women and in this case the first woman nominee...Name one man who was ever treated this way ...one...you can't.
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)None of that was said here. That scenario is the self-pitying drivel of a handful of Hillary supporters who believe that standing for anyone other than their anointed was misogyny. Luckily Secretary Clinton did not share their sense of entitlement.
7962
(11,841 posts)its because he feels she was part of the "system" being stacked against him from the start
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)Clinton campaign takes control of DNC
(CNN) - Hillary Clinton's campaign is taking the reins of the Democratic National Committee, installing a new top official on Thursday to oversee the party's day-to-day operations through the general election.
Brandon Davis, national political director for the Service Employees International Union, will become the general election chief of staff for the Democratic Party. His selection formalizes the coordination of the Clinton campaign and the committee, a stark contrast to Donald Trump who is currently at odds with his party.
Robby Mook, the Clinton campaign manager, arrived Thursday morning at Democratic headquarters on Capitol Hill to introduce Davis to the party's staff.
"We have a lot of work to do over the next five months to make sure that Donald Trump does not become president," Mook said as he introduced Davis, according to a person in the room. "With so much at stake in this election, we could not ask for a better partner in that mission than the team here."
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)I think Bernie has behaved horribly towards the first woman presidential nominee...she won but is supposed to kiss his derriere...no way. I think and I have heard people on TV say he is blowing it and becoming more irrelevant every day.
BootinUp
(47,135 posts)treating people differently because of sex or race.
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)that he may be wrong about, well, anything.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)What woman has not had to put up with that shit and worse often?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)w4rma
(31,700 posts)sexism in their false attacks on honorable people.
k8conant
(3,030 posts)UPDATE:
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clintons team has told the Federal Election Commission that she continued her campaign even after endorsing Democratic presidential rival Barack Obama on June 7, a claim that lets her transfer millions of dollars from her presidential bid to her Senate campaign.
The former first lady made the $6.4 million transfer from her White House campaign, which remains more than $7 million in debt, to Friends of Hillary on Aug. 28. That date would fall outside the legal deadline for making such a move if her campaign were to have ended June 7.
Her campaign treasurer told federal regulators that Mrs. Clinton spent more than a quarter-million dollars engaging in vigorous political activity throughout June, according to newly released FEC filings.
The committee continued to actively contest for delegates at the state and local delegate-selection events during the month of June, campaign treasurer Shelly Moskwa wrote in a letter to the FEC dated Nov. 20. Nothing in Senator Clintons remarks indicated that she was withdrawing from the race.
While she indicated that she was suspending her campaign, the term suspension has no legal meaning, Ms. Moskwa wrote.
...
TheFarseer
(9,319 posts)Bernie doesn't want to be bribed with a cabinet position
And second, Hillary is too dumb to just say, "yeah we'll do that" to whatever Bernie is asking and then just do whatever the hell she wants anyway. How hard is this?
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)and singles only the fact that Hillary camp is unable to discuss "Issues" for fear of exposing the fact that they really aren't that very "progressive" afterall.
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)Vinca
(50,249 posts)News flash: if you look at Hillary crosseyed it's not misogyny.