2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThis is what we have to look forward to?
No thank you.
Gee, how long until we see more cuts in welfare?
still_one
(92,190 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 19, 2016, 09:26 AM - Edit history (1)
https://m.MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Will you all wear the same wardrobe?
Will you all have the same sig lines?
Will you all be waiting for the incrementalism to affect your friends and neighbors?
Will you all be waiting to see who we'll invade next?
So much to do with so many... just like you.
still_one
(92,190 posts)Hillary would stroke out"
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)That's a stupid comment to make.
still_one
(92,190 posts)resorting to vulgarity, or hateful rants
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I don't have that experience. However, I have it here with people who may get hidden, but survive to do it again and again.
still_one
(92,190 posts)that other nonsense.
I only speak for me, and you only speak for you. We don't control what other people say or do.
My point was that the "group think" you were alluding to above, happens on both sides.
I am fairly certain that you do your own critical thinking though
senz
(11,945 posts)I described it months ago, here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=904380
It's still true.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I just don't understand that... Even though my sister is one of them... I do NOT understand them.
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)Response to pinebox (Original post)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)Tell us. Did they? When millions saw their food assistance cut to nothing? Did they support the 89 Dems who recently voted to gut SNAP too? People like DWS? http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/1/29/1273428/-These-89-Democrats-Voted-to-Cut-8-7-Billion-from-Food-Stamps
People forget and people don't study the issues. It's THAT simple and once the veil is lifted off Hillary, you see exactly who she is; a throwback to the Bob Dole era of the GOP. Just like you, you support that, it is what it is.
Are you saying that progressives don't care about the poor? I'd say in this day and age, many Dems don't as illustrated by the 89 who voted to gut SNAP. To them, it's all about the money and nothing less. Do you know who isn't on that list for voting yes? Bernie.
Response to pinebox (Reply #8)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)People in a Dem bubble is who.
Now you come crawling to us indy libs to support your candidate in a GE when we never had a voice in the primaries? Bwahahahahahaha! Have fun with that.
I know, it's hard for those who can't see what is happening when they are the ones who help cause the problems by supporting such archaic positions.
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)your support has been consistent. I will not crawl and I don't need you. I am pretty sure the unreliable voting record supports my stance. I am guessing Clinton has already written you off as well. You're not needed,
pinebox
(5,761 posts)Because apparently 55% support of Democrats will gain her the white house!
Bwahahahahahahaha. Hilarious.
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)malcontents that only want to burn down the party. So SHE DOESN'T NEED THEM. Don't worry it will all become clear in November on how the paper revolution was left behind.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)You honestly think your candidate is going to win without the support of millions of people?
Really? Have fun with that. People are sick of both sides of the aisle. Hillary offers nothing new at all, just rehashed day old bakery.
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)the small minority of disgruntled non voting revolutionaries.
senz
(11,945 posts)choie
(4,111 posts)yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)It's that simple!
Welfare reform was coming whether we like it or not.
Reagan won the presidency on stories of "welfare queens" and Big Tax/Big Spend Democrats. They held office for 12 years in a row and changed America!
Romney popped up 4 years ago with "47% are on the government dole" - this issue is always lurking!
We just had a "socialist" candidate come in third place behind a perceived "centrist" and a "billionaire class" candidate! The "socialist" campaigned against both of these concepts and lost!
To do ANY good, we have to win. "High minded principles" instead of "pragmatic politics" will keep you on the outside looking in.
"Learn it. Live it. Love it."
Response to pinebox (Reply #27)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Hillary's voters ect
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)
Who Wins When Poor People Vote? The Answer May Surprise Bernie Sanders.
Spandan Chakrabarti April 24, 2016
...
On a pretaped interview with NBC's Meet the Press, Sanders was asked why in the 16 out of 17 states with the highest income inequality that have voted - income inequality being Bernie Sanders' defining campaign issue - Hillary Clinton has beaten the self-styled savior of the poor. Seemingly out of excuses, Sanders invented a novel idea: "well, because poor people don't vote," he said, implying that if poor people did vote, he'd be winning so good.
The facts tell the exact opposite story. If exit polling data is any indication, the more poor people that vote, the more Bernie Sanders is actually likely to lose. I have decided to take all the states that have voted thus far in which exit polling data is available in the Democratic primary and chart them out. Here are the results (exit polling data from NBC News).
Clinton's margin among voters with a household income under $30K usually slightly outstrips her margin among the electorate overall, and the higher the share of low-income people in the electorate, the more likely she is to win. Clinton's margin among voters with a household income under $30K usually slightly outstrips her margin among the electorate overall, and the higher the share of low-income people in the electorate, the more likely she is to win.
[There is a graph of the data presented at the source link here ]
...
Hillary Clinton in general tends to actually do better among under-$30K voters than with the general Democratic primary voters, and as you can see, as a general rule, the higher the portion of under-$30K voters in the primary, the more Bernie Sanders is likely to lose and the more Hillary Clinton is likely to win (not in every case, but general trend-wise). For example, in Mississippi, the state with the highest portion of under-$30K electorate so far, where those voters comprised 39% of the Democratic primary electorate, Clinton won the state by a 66-point margin, but she won the lowest income voters by 71 points. In Michigan, Clinton won the under-$30K vote by 6 points despite losing the state by 2 points to Sanders.
More at source link.
http://www.thepeoplesview.net/main/2016/4/24/actually-sen-sanders-poor-people-vote-they-just-dont-vote-for-you
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)Hell my sister is on SSDI and votes republican every single time...every time. Sometimes it is the moral righteous or sometimes it is that they believe they are exempt and it is the "OTHER" that are pointed at as the problem and no one will come after them personally. She all the lies she hears from the talking heads.
I try really hard to talk to her I am have tried to explain to her at her or tell her how very wrong she is and that when Trump or Hillary cut Social Security it will affect everyone. When Trump or Hillary declares War all of our children and grandchildren will be in an endless war.
I worry for all the poor who have voted based on name recognition or some other odd sense of righteousness which I can never understand.
I grieve for my America...for the Democratic Party I have supported for over 4 decades...I will miss voting this time around as I can't vote for the lessor of two evils any longer. I don't see any other way and for that I am sad...
But then you all don't need my vote and so I wish you all well and desperately hope I am wrong.
choie
(4,111 posts)Not a Brock propaganda rag
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)maybe now he'll be welcome back
pangaia
(24,324 posts)John Poet
(2,510 posts)She helped bring it.
Response to John Poet (Reply #115)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
insta8er
(960 posts)Response to insta8er (Reply #13)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Horse race coverage ion the media and nice little soundbites from politicians does not lead to actual knowledge about what candidates do and who they answer to.
Been a problem for a long time.
Not a reflection on intelligence of voters, but shallowness of media and corruption of politicians.
Response to Armstead (Reply #26)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Response to Armstead (Reply #31)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)At least use some damn logic. Your logic is a form of elitist arrogance in itself.
Clinton may have grown up semi-poor but he left that behind long ago. He and Hillary are now worth about $200 Million. And I don't recall either of then having any kind of jobs where they had to get their hands dirty...or even running a business or doing anything except cash in on their fame.
And no one is talking about a "worker's revolution." It's a political revolution in terms of returning some kind of balance to a political system and economy that has gotten m very unbalanced in favor of the Ultra Rich and Powerful.
And the people in Vermont -- which has a fair number of both middle class and hardscrabble people, seem to relate to Sanders in a very positive way.
So your own elitist ramblings are just a load of hoohah.
Response to Armstead (Reply #38)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)distorting Sanders as a wealthy elite and the Clintons as a "couple of the people."
As for the support of the disadvantaged for them -- yeah. I think if one separated out the the Media Packaged Brand compared to the actual positions and actions they have taken, the people who financially back them, etc. I think a lot of people would say they don't agree with or like it.
Response to Armstead (Reply #46)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I do agree with you that it is necessary to reach voters on their terms -- and whatever combination of income, ethnic and otehr factors that may be.
My problem is that the Democrats gave up on that with the Clinton/DLC/Centrists. Or, more accurately they sold a bill of goods that appeared to be liberal/progressive/populist and support "the people" and won over a majority except hard core right wing haters.
But they sold the people out in the actual conduct in office and policies they signed onto and pushed.
They also watered down the liberal message, to take out the notion of challenging entrenched wealth and power to maintain a balance. In doing that, they also gave the GOP space to continue their misleading sales pitches.
Those two factors castrated the left half of the spectrum. The Clinton Democrats redefined the "center" as corporate conservative -- just not as nasty as the GOP on social issues.
Whatever you think of Bernie or his supporters (who are, like all supporters of all candidates a mix of millions of individuals who are not exactly alike), what he has tried to do is push the "center" somewhat more to the left towards a real center in which there is a balance between elite power and the larger public interest.
There was not time to overcome decades of propaganda and entrenched loyalties to the Clintons.....And maybe Bernie was not the ideal messenger for that. BUT he went from being considered a marginal "fringe left" candidate to winning between 40-45 percent of the primary votes. He proved that the "margins" are a while lot wider and biggerand further to the left than was previously thought. That IS success.
If the Democratic Party institutionally were to look at that and realize that and open up to him and what he represents, they would be a hell of a lot more likely to succeed in November (although with Trump, winning is probably preordained) and also to be healthier and more of a vehicle to actually move towards a national realignment toward left of center rather then right of center.
Response to Armstead (Reply #75)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
swhisper1
(851 posts)worker's revolution? That came out of left field.Yet typical when one is blinded by pink floodlights
Response to swhisper1 (Reply #69)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)I can tell you right here, right now, many poor people don't have access to the same internet as many people. In fact, many don't even have internet, sadly. You think they have the cash to pony up $75/month?
I'll be straight forward and honest with you. My other half is a teacher in one of the poorest areas of America; Cameron County Texas. Many of her students don't even have cell phones that have internet and many don't have computers at home. When they do have cell phones, often times they are shut off because they can't pay the bill for such service.
Some ISP's offer discounts if you have kids in the household who attend school and will give you barebones internet and possible a computer but that's ISP dependent.
So no, many don't have access to the same internet that we do, which should be free for families who qualify for things like SNAP and Medicaid. Many areas which are poor also aren't even wired due to ISP's not being able to make money.
Response to pinebox (Reply #33)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)Most of my better half's students have clamshells.
It's a HUGE problem. Massive actually. Kids are unable to do their homework because textbooks these days are only available online. This is an issue which will need confronting.
Phones can't load that sort of info either. hell, pdf's suck on my S7 lol
Response to pinebox (Reply #37)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)On both sides, there's no way around it. Hell my mom was about ready to vote for Ken Buck here in CO. I facepalmed.
Response to pinebox (Reply #41)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #19)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
swhisper1
(851 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Be sure to use a sharp knife when you cut off your nose to spite your face.
senz
(11,945 posts)2013 --
1991 --
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)assume rooting for the other side."
Tick tock.
Sid
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)pinebox
(5,761 posts)"Tick tock!".
"One day until...."
"June 20th....!"
Everyone drink!
riversedge
(70,213 posts)depressed areas of the country. Do a little research and look up some information before you post next time to avoid looking more foolish.
swhisper1
(851 posts)onehandle
(51,122 posts)Nobody give a shit.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)djean111
(14,255 posts)Austerity, Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare slashed, Single Payer out, mandatory private insurance in. More "trade" deals.
The champagne is likely already flowing on Wall Street and 1% enclaves all over the world.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)Response to pinebox (Reply #10)
Post removed
pinebox
(5,761 posts)Remember, Iraq is a business opportunity!
/holy shit facepalm
Metric System
(6,048 posts)obamanut2012
(26,071 posts)pinebox
(5,761 posts)Oooops!
CorkySt.Clair
(1,507 posts)He really was a peach.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)That is inhumane....subhuman... and something I constitutionally oppose as a Human Being.
I don't need to mourn someone to know that that is WRONG, and nothing to giggle about.
The Glee and Giggling creeped me out more than just a little.
Still does.
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)So, how do you circle that square?
swhisper1
(851 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Over, and over and over, and over.
Being wrong is like a badge of honor for some of you.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)WJC wanted to kill it... I think HRC will make it a priority. It's what Wall St wants.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)... and over telling me how right they've been all along.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)... and they scampered away.
Then he pushed them harder on expanding it.
The predicted cuts never happened ... and they never were going to happen.
But hey, look at it this way ... you'll probably have 8 years of President Hillary Clinton during which time you can continue to make the same hair on fire predictions over and over again.
And when they still don't happen ... you can take the credit for stopping them. Again.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)Thank you Jan Shakowsky.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Its been amazing to watch a segment of DU scream bloody murder about cuts to SS that were never going to happen.
Oh wait ... that's right ... Obama was going to cut SS ... but Bernie supporters stopped him!!!!!
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)... predicting doom.
CorkySt.Clair
(1,507 posts)Broward
(1,976 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)He was President for 8 years, and he held GOP majorities in both the House and the Senate from 2000-2007.
How many times did they bring such a plan to a vote?
Broward
(1,976 posts)swhisper1
(851 posts)redstateblues
(10,565 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)You conveniently left that out or you didn't bother to look further than the opportunity to bash Clinton.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)swhisper1
(851 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)swhisper1
(851 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 19, 2016, 04:53 PM - Edit history (1)
now he is sadly showing foot in mouth disease- it started in the '08 race when he went nasty on Obama
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)Has ANYONE paid any attention to this?
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/obama-signs-food-stamp-cut
My position has always been that any Farm Bill I sign must include protections for vulnerable Americans, and thanks to the hard work of [Senate Agriculture Committee chair Debbie Stabenow, D-Mich] and others, it does just that, he said.
Stabenow, who played a key role in Farm Bill negotiations, fully embraced the cuts in a speech delivered shortly before the president took the stage.
This is a nutrition bill that makes sure families have a safety net just like farmers do, she said. The savings in food assistance came solely from addressing fraud and misuse while maintaining the important benefits for families that need temporary help.
So much bullshit hypocrisy, so little time. It leaves me to wonder, if She is elected, how much more will the poor, working poor, disabled, elderly be asked to do without?
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)Why yes, Rep. McGovern......excellent question.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)nc4bo
(17,651 posts)They'll keep on rubbing each other's bellies, cashing out huge fundraiser checks while other 1%ers sign more blank ones, schmoozin' and boozin' then pander their asses off to the ignorant and willfully ignorant who aren't pedigreed game players.
They want us to be afraid.
Some of us have released ourselves and are now awake and unafraid and it feels mighty damn fine.
Pastiche423
(15,406 posts)She's got me on three counts.
swhisper1
(851 posts)vintx
(1,748 posts)Welfare reform.
Telecommunications act
NAFTA
TPP
Ever-increasing numbers of H1-B visas...
Please sir, may we have another?
Oh no wait, now we get to say please ma'am!
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Like we did with Bill. Wasn't perfect but it was light years ahead of the 12 years before. '
pinebox
(5,761 posts)Maybe this time we won't have to worry about things like the housing crash thanks to polices put forth by Clinton which took Obama to get us out of. Maybe poor people won't see their welfare slashed. Maybe we won't see signings of DADT.
Maybe.
Maybe I'll win the lottery too.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Like I said it wasn't perfect. Didn't Bernie say marriage equality was a matter of states rights? Didn't Bernie vote against the Brady Bill? Etc etc. No politician is perfect. Even FDR made mistakes and he was a great President. Your constant vitriol and blind hatred will not be missed. Hopefully you will find someplace to vent your constant negativity.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)redstateblues
(10,565 posts)pinebox
(5,761 posts)and that includes revoking Glas-Stegal which would have helped.
That isn't to say that Bush helped it, he made it worse but the roots are in the Clinton administration with the deregulation which was done.
swhisper1
(851 posts)deregulation of the banks was purely Clintons mistake, that and Nafta/Kafta
The banks did it, but Bill enabled them to, having no foresight.
Bill was not a hawk, so we had a good economy- no wars
Hillary is a hawk and will not hobble the banks, so we are going into Hell all over again. She is going to be our Bush
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)I'm sure Bush appreciates your support. Since you are so prescient you should make a fortune in the stock market. I predict we'll have 8 more years of peace and prosperity.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/business/worldbusiness/21iht-admin.4.18853088.html?_r=0
swhisper1
(851 posts)There was absolutely no reason to kill Glass Steigal. it costs thousands their homes and 401Ks and I do not count Bill as a democrat. He did alot of damage and has been a sexual predator all his life. A true 3rd wayer.
I fear his influence over the next 4 yrs
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)swhisper1
(851 posts)swhisper1
(851 posts)redstateblues
(10,565 posts)many of them died there. My point is this: I hear a lot of trashing of Clinton and Obama for some of their policies that had unintended consequences that were not necessarily positive or that didn't go far enough. On balance both Clinton and Obama had successful Presidencies-were there things that weren't great? Of course- but the reality is that our country moved forward as opposed to the disastrous Republican years. As great as he was, even FDR was not perfect.
swhisper1
(851 posts)Bush sent our country backwards, Obama did much to improve it, but now the 3rd way is deeply seeded in the party and Hillary is their leader. If she is aware we know that, she will walk a narrow path
These nasty posters that tend to be Hillary supporters and touting gender preference, are not sighted people, they blindly follow. Blind voters are a big problem on both sides, and blind voters are dominent in this country, and would give her trust she has not earned.
I very much doubt anything will improve under her administration. One example is her stated agreement to raise the minimum wage to $12/hr, but not for 7 years. We need it today, not 7 yrs down the road. Is she just blind? or is it more lip service.
I have a very bad feeling about this woman and her hubby.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)And you would....never mind. All I've got to say to you is tick tock. Have a nice life
pinebox
(5,761 posts)Tell me why I should support someone who is completely polar opposite of me?
For all intents and purposes, she can't be trusted and we all see this but you guys give her a pass on each and every thing like she is some sort of God which should never be criticized despite there being genuine concerns on her judgment and what she supports.
You want me to support someone who voted for the biggest mistake in US history and please don't say that Bernie supported Iraq, supporting our troops who are in battle is NOT the same as sending the 4th ID into a country racing across the desert to overthrow it. You want me to support someone who isn't for universal health care no matter how many times she tries to spin it, lying, that she is. We know people in red states won't be insured. Universal health care means *every body* like Canada, like Germany, like Australia. You want me to support someone who is under an FBI investigation? And no, it isn't a RW smear either, it's a real thing and is happening. That alone should disqualify her. You want me to support someone who can't even give straight answers and lies outright to the American public. One such case is where Hillary is on camera after a rally and tells everyone she never sent classified information in emails. You add in that with her past, things like sniper fire, and you want me to support someone who is completely dishonest?
On and on it goes, from a living wage to her half assed program to help people in college.
You want me to support that?
She hasn't earned my vote.
swhisper1
(851 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 19, 2016, 09:53 PM - Edit history (1)
that destroyed our economy and unions, yeah, lets have that again
Sarcasm
still_one
(92,190 posts)Andy823
(11,495 posts)Sure will be nice when all the tolls go back to their bridges, or to JPR, won't it?
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)pinebox
(5,761 posts)brooklynite
(94,535 posts)AMERICAN BRIDGE is having a call about their Trump research this Wednesday.
It's bullshit what Hillary said? I agree. See how that works? I'm sorry that you're upset at your candidate and what she said Bill's position will be though.
So someone posts something that shows your candidate and says they disagree them and they are a troll that you can't wait to see leave the site? Oh? Is that how that works? You want your little rubber room echo chamber so you can talk about what Hillary is wearing today or what she should help name her newly born grand daughter? I think the club for royal watching is over there on the National Enquirer website.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)nc4bo
(17,651 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)nc4bo
(17,651 posts)Counting days, minutes and seconds.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)When I asked the woman what she meant by terms of endearment and why such terms were a pet peeve to her, I got an answer like this:
"It's words like dear, hon, and sweetie. I don't like them in email and other business communication. I would like to respond to people who use them, 'I'm not your dear, I'm not your hon."
http://www.businesswritingblog.com/business_writing/2008/06/not-your-sweeti.html
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)And a squeeze of lemon juice.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Once you're explaining, you're losing (the argument). Obviously, your writing ability is not up to the task, if you have to DESCRIBE the missing "bitters" after the fact. LOL!
Why should I trust YOU, an anonymous name and avatar in cyberspace?
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)Overseas
(12,121 posts)I hope she made that pledge because she knows it would make income inequality much worse.
Mr NAFTA needs to back off and stay in the background.
swhisper1
(851 posts)Bill will have alot of influence in decisions, so I wont sleep well for 4 yrs
Faux pas
(14,672 posts)more afraid of, bill or her. Yikes!!!!!!!!!
swhisper1
(851 posts)MFM008
(19,808 posts)WAY OVERDUE.
Geez......
jamese777
(546 posts)and Appropriations Bills originate in the House of Representatives.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Val Powell, the "Web News Reporter"; https://twitter.com/webnewsreporter
Doesn't tweet much anymore, so what else has this esteemed "journalist" been up to...
hillaryinthenews.com
Well now look at that, piles of stories savaging Hillary and pumping Trump's attack lines whenever possible. I especially love the hard-hitting quotes on EMailgate from, let's see...Andrew Napolitano and... Jane Sanders
Quality, objective journalism by Val Powell. Oh wait, we almost missed one.
Muck Rack
Look at those top-notch reports, pinebox!
"Bobby Brown Dishes On Whitney Houstons Lesbian Love Affair And Kicking Jackson Out Of His Bed In New Memoir"
"Ricky Martin Calls On Public To Pressure Lawmakers For Stricter Gun Control"
"Kim Kardashian Calls Taylor Swift A Liar Over Lyrics To Kanye Wests Song, Famous"
Pastiche423
(15,406 posts)NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)deathrind
(1,786 posts)Because they did such a bang up job before...
SMH
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)⌚⌛⏳⏰🕠🕔