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Sun Jun 19, 2016, 04:48 PM

 

It doesn't bother me that Hillary is courting Republicans

Yeah, yeah. Tick fucking tock and all that.

It doesn't bother me that she is moving to the right for the general election

It doesn't bother me that she will almost certainly support the TPP and TTIP

It doesn't bother me that she no longer gives but the most fleeting mention of campaign reform

I don't care who she picks for VP or who she chooses for her cabinet

It does bother me that we'll see a beefed up more muscular foreign policy and more military interventions.

I am sure that she'll pick Justices who will preserve a woman's right to choose and will be socially liberal. I have no hopes that she'll choose justices who will support the people over corporate interests.

It's what I expect. And if she surprises me by, for example, not immediately bombing the shit out of Assad's forces, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

She is far better than Trump. That will just have to do. Faint praise that it is.

(btw, no this isn't bitterness about Bernie. I knew she'd be the nominee. These are opinions I formed about her over many years.)

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Arrow 64 replies Author Time Post
Reply It doesn't bother me that Hillary is courting Republicans (Original post)
cali Jun 2016 OP
Ned_Devine Jun 2016 #1
cali Jun 2016 #3
AntiBank Jun 2016 #43
adigal Jun 2016 #62
TDale313 Jun 2016 #2
840high Jun 2016 #37
TwilightZone Jun 2016 #4
JackRiddler Jun 2016 #5
cheapdate Jun 2016 #6
cali Jun 2016 #8
cheapdate Jun 2016 #11
cali Jun 2016 #13
cheapdate Jun 2016 #16
cali Jun 2016 #17
yallerdawg Jun 2016 #20
cali Jun 2016 #23
yallerdawg Jun 2016 #31
seabeckind Jun 2016 #24
yallerdawg Jun 2016 #28
seabeckind Jun 2016 #30
yallerdawg Jun 2016 #32
seabeckind Jun 2016 #33
yallerdawg Jun 2016 #34
seabeckind Jun 2016 #35
Ghost Dog Jun 2016 #36
gordianot Jun 2016 #54
Silver_Witch Jun 2016 #38
left-of-center2012 Jun 2016 #7
Nye Bevan Jun 2016 #9
cali Jun 2016 #10
John Poet Jun 2016 #12
cali Jun 2016 #15
PufPuf23 Jun 2016 #14
Overseas Jun 2016 #18
Ghost Dog Jun 2016 #41
oberliner Jun 2016 #45
Vinca Jun 2016 #19
cali Jun 2016 #21
Live and Learn Jun 2016 #48
Tarc Jun 2016 #22
cali Jun 2016 #25
yallerdawg Jun 2016 #27
Silver_Witch Jun 2016 #39
JoePhilly Jun 2016 #51
joshcryer Jun 2016 #26
seabeckind Jun 2016 #29
Lazy Daisy Jun 2016 #40
loyalsister Jun 2016 #42
NurseJackie Jun 2016 #44
hedda_foil Jun 2016 #46
Live and Learn Jun 2016 #47
realmirage Jun 2016 #49
NurseJackie Jun 2016 #50
LondonReign2 Jun 2016 #60
TwilightZone Jun 2016 #61
Sheepshank Jun 2016 #52
KansDem Jun 2016 #53
beachbum bob Jun 2016 #55
cali Jun 2016 #56
beachbum bob Jun 2016 #57
beachbum bob Jun 2016 #58
cali Jun 2016 #59
adigal Jun 2016 #63
jack_krass Jun 2016 #64

Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 04:50 PM

1. You're stronger willed than I am. Everything on that list is why I'm voting Green

 

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Response to Ned_Devine (Reply #1)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 04:53 PM

3. I understand and respect your choice.

 

I do think she'll be the President. I don't think most of her supporters will utter a peep of criticism no matter what she does.

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Response to cali (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 06:57 PM

43. Agreed, they don't give a toss, the shrillest are in the cult OR are neo liberals and/or warhawks

 

I am voting for Clinton but will rage against any and all fucked up neolib, neocon-loved, bankster-friendly, warhawk, corporatist or right-wing things she tries to shove through after she is elected.

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Response to AntiBank (Reply #43)

Mon Jun 20, 2016, 12:13 PM

62. I'm with you...I will pay attention and criticize her very openly

 

If I get banned, well, it's been a nice 12 years.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 04:51 PM

2. You're in a better place than me.

It's what I expect too, and it still bothers the fuck out of me.

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Response to TDale313 (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 06:35 PM

37. It bothers me enough not

 

to vote for her.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 04:59 PM

4. "I have no hopes that she'll choose justices who will support the people over corporate interests."

Many judges support a liberal judicial interpretation of fundamental rights, but they also have corporate laws to consider. I'm curious how you're going to separate the ones that will "support the people over corporate interests" based on their existing body of work.

Do you have some examples of current judges that you feel would fit this requirement?

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:00 PM

5. Yes.

 

As for "tick-tock," they seem to delight in the idea that this place will turn boring and get half the traffic.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:00 PM

6. That's about where I'm at too.

Hopefully, she'll preserve most of the gains made in protecting the environment, endangered species, and open lands. At least she won't stack the federal land and environmental agencies with right-wing ideologues.

That'll have to do.

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Response to cheapdate (Reply #6)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:11 PM

8. I don't have any expectations that she'll do much to protect the environment

 

but as you said, she won't stack the BLM or EPA with right wingnuts.

That'll have to do.

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Response to cali (Reply #8)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:15 PM

11. I think she at least believes in the need for some level of environmental regulations

and functioning regulatory agencies.

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Response to cheapdate (Reply #11)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:20 PM

13. Yes. I believe that too. But it's counterbalanced by her strong support for

 

fracking and her ties to big oil.

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Response to cali (Reply #13)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:22 PM

16. Imperfect choices seem to be what's on the menu.

(P.S. -- and if you don't order, someone will order for you.)

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Response to cheapdate (Reply #16)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:25 PM

17. quite.

 

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Response to cali (Reply #17)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:32 PM

20. You know...

now that your switching over to Hillary, you might check out her positions on issues. For instance:

Hillary will:

• Create good-paying jobs by making the United States the clean energy superpower of the 21st century.

• Set national goals to have 500 million solar panels installed; generate enough renewable energy to power every home in America; cut energy waste in homes, schools, and hospitals by a third; and reduce American oil consumption by a third.

•Lead the world in the fight against climate change by bringing greenhouse gas emissions to 30 percent below what they were in 2005 within the next decade—and keep going.

Much, much more at:https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/climate/

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #20)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:39 PM

23. I have checked on her positions, on her rhetoric and on her record

 

And frankly, I trust Bill McKibben on her environmental record more than you.

She not only supports fracking, she pushed it as SoS. One thing I never did during the primaries was use Bernie's site as evidence to support my opinion.

She's better than Trump.

No, I'm not switching to Hillary. I'm opposed to Trump or any republican in the White House.

I'm resigned to her. That's all.

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Response to cali (Reply #23)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:51 PM

31. Maybe that's the problem.

You "trust" other people's opinion rather than listen to and trust the candidate.

In Hillary's case, you can find a cottage industry of opinion demonizing and vilifying Hillary, an unending echo chamber of 'confirmation bias.'

I hold candidates accountable for what they say. Not what someone else said about them.

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #20)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:39 PM

24. You forgot the chicken in every pot

and a car in every garage.

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Response to seabeckind (Reply #24)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:45 PM

28. No I didn't.

I'm not a Bernie supporter.

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #28)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:51 PM

30. Hoover campaign promise in 1928.

Not much on history I take it?

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Response to seabeckind (Reply #30)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:54 PM

32. Did my reply...

go right over your head?

I thought you were referencing pie-in-the-sky 'free stuff'?

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #32)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:56 PM

33. Nope. You drew the wrong conclusion.

Fairly common in some quarters.

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Response to seabeckind (Reply #33)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:57 PM

34. I wish I could go on.

My shift is over.

See y'all tomorrow...maybe.

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #34)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 06:01 PM

35. Feel free to go on wherever you want. n/t

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #20)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 06:32 PM

36. Yeah, sure. Also:

 

Our democracy should work for everyone, not just the wealthy and well-connected.

Hillary will:

Overturn Citizens United.

End secret, unaccountable money in politics.

Establish a small-donor matching system to amplify the voices of everyday Americans.

“We have to end the flood of secret, unaccountable money that is distorting our elections, corrupting our political system, and drowning out the voices of too many everyday Americans. Our democracy should be about expanding the franchise, not charging an entrance fee.”
HILLARY, SEPTEMBER 8, 2015


Hillary is calling for aggressive campaign finance reform to end the stranglehold that wealthy interests have over our political system and restore a government of, by, and for the people—not just the wealthy and well-connected. Her proposals will curb the outsized influence of big money in American politics, shine a light on secret spending, and institute real reforms to raise the voices of regular voters.

Hillary will:

Overturn Citizens United. Hillary will appoint Supreme Court justices who value the right to vote over the right of billionaires to buy elections. She’ll push for a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United in order to restore the role of everyday voters in elections.

End secret, unaccountable money in politics. Hillary will push for legislation to require outside groups to publicly disclose significant political spending. And until Congress acts, she'll sign an executive order requiring federal government contractors to do the same. Hillary will also promote an SEC rule requiring publicly traded companies to disclose political spending to shareholders.

Amplify the voices of everyday Americans. Hillary will establish a small-donor matching system for presidential and congressional elections to incentivize small donors to participate in elections, and encourage candidates to spend more time engaging a representative cross-section of voters...

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/campaign-finance-reform/


"Curb" "Excess"... Hold her to it?

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #36)

Mon Jun 20, 2016, 09:43 AM

54. Look what the secret accounts have given us as candidates to date.

Talk about unintended consequences, if the free flow of money was meant to make it easier to elect another Bush or establishment Republican like Kasich then it was a miserable failure. You are left with a barking mad ego maniacal narcissist; and socially liberal, Wall Street friendly, Neo Conservative who is not trusted by many voters. This is the anti charisma election with the hope that Supreme Court will not deteriorate, follow established law and protect us from the predators in the public sector and in Government. My motto; "I once had hope" and yes I will vote for Hillary Clinton.

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #20)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 06:35 PM

38. You missed part...

 

"That’s why on day one, Hillary will set bold, national goals that will be achieved within ten years of her taking office. Ten years means nothing in the environmental situation we are in now. And additionally, her term will be long over 10 years from taking office.

Last, how will she make this all happen - does she have a magic wand that she will waive that will make the legislature support her moves on these issues.

Of course not...she can promise candy to all and it means nothing.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:08 PM

7. The bottom line is: Clinton versus Trump

Do we want a President Trump?

HELL NO !

I'm a "Bernie guy", but I'm voting for Clinton in November.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:12 PM

9. Her foreign policy will be pretty much a continuation of President Obama's.

Those who think that she is chomping at the bit to bomb a hit list of Middle Eastern countries will, I expect, be pleasantly surprised.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:14 PM

10. Wrong. And virtually every expert in the field agrees

 

Not to mention anyone who has paid attention over the past 8 years- and longer.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:17 PM

12. Well, it fucking bothers ME!

 

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Response to John Poet (Reply #12)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:21 PM

15. I'm just largely resigned. But her hawkishness is something I can't resign myself to.

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:20 PM

14. We are like minded. I never expected Sanders to be the Democratic nominee. eom.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:28 PM

18. It does bother me that she may support the TPP. That would increase wealth inequality greatly.

I am hoping she has enough good will for our country that she'll keep her pledge to back out of the agreement. Corporations are already far too powerful.

But yes, I also share your war weariness and hope that she will pull back from all our wars. I hope she will see the drone program for what it is-- a way to create more terrorists, and scale it out of existence.

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Response to Overseas (Reply #18)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 06:40 PM

41. "Foreign Policy" is not an issue at hillaryclinton.com.

 

Only "National Security" is.

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #41)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 10:44 PM

45. Nor is it an issue on berniesanders.com

 

"War and Peace" does make the list though, a few places after Fighting for Native Hawaiians.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:31 PM

19. It bothers me . . . a whole lot.

It seems we're back to the old lesser of two evils election.

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Response to Vinca (Reply #19)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:33 PM

21. I never expected anything but. I never will.

 

Our political system is corrupt and we live in an oligarchy. Those are , not opinion. (I know you know that)

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Response to cali (Reply #21)

Mon Jun 20, 2016, 01:32 AM

48. +1000 nt

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:34 PM

22. I really don't see Hillary as the hawk that some here do

War isn't going to be a first resort, nor will she or her administration falsify WMDs to garner support for a war. Obviously she won't be as non-interventionist as Bernie would've been, but there's not much support in the American electorate for that degree of hands-off, the way the world currently is.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #22)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:40 PM

25. I hope you're right. History, alas, doesn't support that.

 

She's certainly more hawkish than Obama.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #22)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:43 PM

27. The Clinton's greatest regrets are humanitarian.

Bill Clinton stopped the horrific Bosnian genocide, but couldn't do Rwanda.

Hillary helped avert outright massacre in Libya, and then had to watch Assad in Syria.

I guess hawks ain't what they used to be...

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Response to Tarc (Reply #22)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 06:38 PM

39. I am marking this post so we can chat after she starts war with Iran.

 

Bet money on it. She is a hawk - whether right or wrong - she is indeed a hawk.

"“If I’m President, We Will Attack Iran… We would be Able to Totally Obliterate Them.”

This is her direct quote...she will attack if they make any move she considers threatening. Period simple truth.

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Response to Silver_Witch (Reply #39)

Mon Jun 20, 2016, 09:14 AM

51. Obama was going to invade Iran too.

And go back into Iraq ... and invade Syria, and Libya, and Egypt.

His every statement was PROOF it was going to happen any second.

I heard it predicted right here on DU ... over and over and over. Never happened.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:41 PM

26. It's kinda ironic, I guess.

Obama had such high expectations that it was humanly impossible for him to live up to his own media created hype.

Clinton has such low expectations of her and has intentionally run a low key campaign that she can literally do nothing (not bombing the shut out if Assad's forces) and she gains.

Meanwhile they are both human and want what they think is right for the country.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:49 PM

29. I'm in a state where it won't matter.

It's solid red. Went for Obama in 2008 based on his promises for change then went back to red in 2012. So much for the change.

I can't help thinking that had he been less status quo and go along to get along the state might have turned purple, maybe he would have had some coattails in 2012.

Wasn't to be.

A democrat running on a liberal platform for head of education got more votes than the governor. Way more than the democrat running against him. And that guy is running again.

Ponder that a bit.

We'll see how she does this time. She is anti-charter, anti-voucher, which puts her in opposition to the democratic establishment here.

I'll vote for her. Maybe the poor guy who got gerrymandered out of his seat and turned around to run in a different race. He didn'tget much support out of the democratic establishment either.

Bernie kicked ass in the primary. Hillary mailed it in.

I think Bernie could have carried the state in the general. No chance of that happening with Hillary. Not even against Trump.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 06:39 PM

40. It bothers me

 

When you are betrayed it's more painful coming from "family" than an outsider.
Hillary is supposed to be one of ours. When she betrays us, and she will, it's gonna hurt like hell
Because it will be things that could never pass if a Republican were in office.

The next 4 years are really gonna suck.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 06:52 PM

42. My expectations are in the gutter

Nominatingelecting a woman only to return to a more muscular <masculine> foreign policy is something I do resent, though.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 19, 2016, 10:31 PM

44. Can't please everyone.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Mon Jun 20, 2016, 12:44 AM

46. I concur.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Mon Jun 20, 2016, 01:31 AM

47. It bothers me and I will never stop fighting agianst those policies and politicians that support

them.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Mon Jun 20, 2016, 01:36 AM

49. Trying to bring the opposition into your party is brilliant

 

But you're not able to see that for whatever reason

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Response to realmirage (Reply #49)

Mon Jun 20, 2016, 09:10 AM

50. Suppressed anger and resentment? Just a guess. Who knows for sure?

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Response to realmirage (Reply #49)

Mon Jun 20, 2016, 11:57 AM

60. Bringing them into the party would be great

Unfortunately the way we've gone about that is plunging hard to the right and adopting their policies.

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Response to realmirage (Reply #49)

Mon Jun 20, 2016, 12:11 PM

61. Yeah, that's kind of the idea.

When Sanders was doing it, it was the best thing ever, but when Hillary does it, it's the end of the world.

Bizarre.

Anyway, the idea is to win the presidency and as many down-ticket races as possible. That requires, as some Sanders supporters have been reminding us, more than just the Democratic base.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Mon Jun 20, 2016, 09:34 AM

52. I admit that it did bother me in the early days when Bernie was courting the Republican vote

 

But apparently it's what they all do. I see Trump courting Dem votes. The Libertarian runner is courting Republican votes. It's done all over, all the time. I'm more bothered by those that deny Bernie courted the Republican vote. As if the illusion of his Dem purity had to be maintained....whitewashing reality sucks.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Mon Jun 20, 2016, 09:40 AM

53. HRC = MOTS

"More Of The Same"

'Nuff said...

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Response to cali (Original post)

Mon Jun 20, 2016, 09:54 AM

55. I want hillary and democrats courting ALL voters and ALL donors, we do NOT have an ideological

 

litmus test and can handle the entire political spectrum as democrats...as I have stated before not every conservative idea is wrong and not every liberal idea is right.....the stakes in 2016 general election is way too important

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Response to beachbum bob (Reply #55)

Mon Jun 20, 2016, 10:02 AM

56. please identify the issues on which you think "conservative" ideas have merit

 

And Hillary has said straight out that she'll apply upholding Roe as a litmus test when it comes to picking SC Justices.

And no, the democratic party cannot "handle" the entire political spectrum- if by "handle", you mean accept or embrace.

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Response to cali (Reply #56)

Mon Jun 20, 2016, 10:08 AM

57. I disagree, we have conservative democrats and liberal democrats and all in between....

 

our elected leaders mostly of the represents the views of their constituents and believe me when i say liberal democrats of california may have a hard time understanding conservative democrats of North Carolina but share several several common values...as to what any single conservative value and belief is not 100% wrong? I can't believe you yourself can't name one.....and just like can name many liberal beliefs that are not 100% right.....we are not an either/or country and neither should the democratic party be either

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Response to cali (Reply #56)

Mon Jun 20, 2016, 10:10 AM

58. conservative ideas that are not 100% wrong

 

1. means testing all those receiving any kind of govt assistance

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Response to beachbum bob (Reply #58)

Mon Jun 20, 2016, 11:00 AM

59. They do means test for SNAP and Medicaid and other programs

 

what specifically are you referring to? And btw, that is ONE idea that you weakly claim isn't "100% wrong".

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Response to cali (Reply #56)

Mon Jun 20, 2016, 12:19 PM

63. Reproductive rights are important, but there are other many other important issues

 

I'm tired of being told that if I don't vote for our guy/gal, abortions will be illegal. No, they won't, not in all states. And if the states that make it conservative support Republicans, then that's the way it rolls, I guess.

I'm also concerned about income inequality, the 9% interest my kids are paying on student loans, and the environment. Lots more out there that I am concerned about with Hillary than reproductive rights.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Mon Jun 20, 2016, 12:38 PM

64. "Bombing Assad's forces" could start WW3*

 

*intended as constructive criticism

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