Dem Platform Committee votes *Against* Single-Payer Healthcare 7-6

[HerbChestnut]

Saw this on Reddit and various tweets. No other source right now, but I can't imagine this is being made up for any reason.

https://twitter.com/iMayaBerry/status/746550329098051584

A majority of the country wants single payer. A strong majority of the Democratic Party wants single payer. This decision is mind boggling.

[FreakinDJ]

1. But Healthcare Lobbyists pay so well

[tymorial]

26. So much this nt

[think]

2. America is the only one of the 25 wealthiest nations that doesn't provide universal health care

And the Democratic Party wants it to stay that way apparently.....

http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2015/sep/01/dan-gecker/dan-gecker-says-us-only-wealth-nation-without-univ/

[NorthCarolina]

106. Thank the neoliberal infiltration of the Democratic Party for that.

Thank Bill Clinton for facilitating the infiltration of the party by neoliberals.

The main points of neo-liberalism include:

THE RULE OF THE MARKET. Liberating "free" enterprise or private enterprise from any bonds imposed by the government (the state) no matter how much social damage this causes. Greater openness to international trade and investment, as in NAFTA. Reduce wages by de-unionizing workers and eliminating workers' rights that had been won over many years of struggle. No more price controls. All in all, total freedom of movement for capital, goods and services. To convince us this is good for us, they say "an unregulated market is the best way to increase economic growth, which will ultimately benefit everyone." It's like Reagan's "supply-side" and "trickle-down" economics -- but somehow the wealth didn't trickle down very much.

CUTTING PUBLIC EXPENDITURE FOR SOCIAL SERVICES like education and health care. REDUCING THE SAFETY-NET FOR THE POOR, and even maintenance of roads, bridges, water supply -- again in the name of reducing government's role. Of course, they don't oppose government subsidies and tax benefits for business.

DEREGULATION. Reduce government regulation of everything that could diminsh profits, including protecting the environmentand safety on the job.

PRIVATIZATION. Sell state-owned enterprises, goods and services to private investors. This includes banks, key industries, railroads, toll highways, electricity, schools, hospitals and even fresh water. Although usually done in the name of greater efficiency, which is often needed, privatization has mainly had the effect of concentrating wealth even more in a few hands and making the public pay even more for its needs.

ELIMINATING THE CONCEPT OF "THE PUBLIC GOOD" or "COMMUNITY" and replacing it with "individual responsibility." Pressuring the poorest people in a society to find solutions to their lack of health care, education and social security all by themselves -- then blaming them, if they fail, as "lazy."

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=376

[CrowCityDem]

3. Mind boggling? Hardly. The platform is reflecting the winning candidate.

[swhisper1]

36. yeah, kinda sad

[BlueMTexpat]

43. + a million! eom

[NurseJackie]

54. Good! I think that's how it's supposed to work.

[w4rma]

67. And this is why I voted against the "winning candidate". (nt)

[Armstead]

80. Yeah we don't want 100 percent of people covered at affordable rates

That would be horrible

[brentspeak]

100. So when they voted in support of the TPP

they were just "reflecting" HRC's agenda.

Looks like you revealed more than you wanted.

[CrowCityDem]

101. They didn't take a position explicitly for or against it.

[brentspeak]

102. AP: "Democrats reject platform proposal opposing trade deal"

Can't get any clearer than this. And the ones who rejected Ellison's platform proposal HRC and DWS' hand-picked surrogates.

[CrowCityDem]

103. That's not an endorsement.

[brentspeak]

108. Spin it anyway you want

People with at least half a brain understand that it is an endorsement of the TPP.

If it makes you feel better, you can take solace in the possibility that you may have convinced those with less than half a brain that it wasn't an endorsement.

[CrowCityDem]

109. An endorsement is when you say "yes", not when you say "we have disagreements on it".

They clearly took a position that some in the party are for it, and some against it. Not issuing a flat rebuke does not an endorsement make, lest we take everyone who hasn't spoken out on every single issue as having endorsed them.

[fun n serious]

4. Would that repeal and replace ACA?

I thought I heard that Bernie's plan would cost an unreasonale amount.

[think]

6. Can you name another wealthy country that doesn't have universal healthcare?

[fun n serious]

8. Would it repeal and replace obama care?

If so.. I know Hill won't go for it.

[think]

10. US News: Clinton's Health Care Attack Makes No Sense

Clinton's Health Care Attack Makes No Sense

By Pat Garofalo | Assistant Managing Editor Jan. 13, 2016, at 12:40 p.m.


The Clinton camp is lambasting Bernie Sanders' health care plan, but its critique is blatantly dishonest.

~Snip~

Clinton's daughter Chelsea got in on the act, too, in an even worse manner, claiming that Sanders wants to "dismantle Obamacare." She said: "I worry if we give Republicans Democratic permission to do that, we'll go back to an era, before we had the Affordable Care Act, that would strip millions and millions and millions of people off their health insurance."

This is mostly rank nonsense. A single-payer system, like it does in many other countries, would cover everybody, period. To say otherwise is either willfully misunderstanding how it would work or simple scaremongering.

Hillary Clinton, jumping on a line in an old Sanders bill that says his plan would be administered by the states, is attempting to tie him to the failure of many Republican governors to embrace Obamacare's Medicaid expansion, which has resulted in millions of people being denied health insurance. But that's very different from single-payer: Sure, Republican governors could maybe try to weasel out of whatever a President Sanders had in mind, but to think he would design a plan that governors could just ignore is silly. (For the record, Sanders' camp emphatically says the plan would apply to everyone.)

Bernie Sanders is proposing single-payer, universal healthcare. You can hardly say he is trying to take health care away from anyone or retreat from Obamacare. He's trying to exceed it. And so it's not really an honest attack."

Read more:
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/pat-garofalo/articles/2016-01-13/hillary-clintons-bizarre-attack-on-bernie-sanders-health-care-plan

[puffy socks]

23. What makes no sense is

Saying the ACA will stay and that we have the resources to implement a universal system and deal with the collapse of the private health insurance industry
all at once.

The idea that Sanders would make a law
that governors wont ignore is laughable and shows a heathy dose of arrogance as well as ignorance.
Apparently he/she has ignored most of the history of the south and the civil rights movement

[think]

66. America is the only one of the 25 wealthiest nations that doesn't provide universal health care

How much clearer does it have to be made that America is lagging behind in this issue?

And yet you all keep making excuses. It's just sad....

[George Eliot]

71. RFK: I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?”

“There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?”

[Duval]

39. +100

[George Eliot]

70. If better, why not? Something sacred about ACA?

[PoliticAverse]

76. She's already given her "guarantee" it "won't happen". n/t

[Armstead]

81. No, expand it

[Jitter65]

78. And right now those countries seem to be coming apart at the seams. BRexit, FRexit,

Universal vs single payer. Single payer means the Feds pay all. Can't sell that to the American public once they see the bill.

[think]

79. Canada is coming apart at the seams? Really? You're response is complete bullshit. Spare me....

[Autumn]

9. I had hoped it would replace it. nt

[fun n serious]

11. I have a couple of people on my twitter

saying they will throw the election to Trump if they don't get single payer. lol.. As if he would do better. It's a bratty stance to take.

[Autumn]

15. Be sure to tell them that. nt

[fun n serious]

16. I did.

I think the campaigns will work things out...

[yodermon]

20. well trump is on record supporting single payer

of course trump is on record saying any damn thing, so it's probably a moot point.

[Thinkingabout]

49. Universal health care provides care to all, this was Hillary's position in the 90's and still is.

Universal health care, sometimes referred to as universal health coverage, universal coverage, or universal care, usually refers to a health care system which provides health care and financial protection to all citizens of a particular country. It is organized around providing a specified package of benefits to all members of a society with the end goal of providing financial risk protection, improved access to health services, and improved health outcomes.[1] Universal health care is not a one-size-fits-all concept and does not imply coverage for all people for everything. Universal health care can be determined by three critical dimensions: who is covered, what services are covered, and how much of the cost is covered.[1] It is described by the World Health Organization as a situation where citizens can access health services without incurring financial hardship.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care

[Armstead]

82. The GOP wants Universal Care too

So they claim.

Easy to say. But what matters is a commitment to actually achieving it.

[ljm2002]

18. No.

The "repeal and replace" framing was done by Clinton and her surrogates during the primary, to imply that Bernie's plan was to first repeal the ACA, then replace it with his preferred system.

Of course that is not at all like anything Bernie said. Sure, his plan would replace the ACA; but he would never repeal the ACA first, that would be absurd.

The ONLY people who want to "repeal and replace" are the Republicans, who would indeed repeal the ACA first and then replace it with ... well they're pretty sketchy on that.

Chelsea Clinton found out how smart it was to roll out the "repeal and replace" language to describe Bernie's position. Even the MSM called her out on it.

Now as to the cost of Bernie's plan. Undoubtedly you did hear that it would be very costly, as the media jumped all over a flawed article stating it would run into the trillions of tax dollars, while failing to mention the savings on premiums (as in: people would no longer have private insurance premiums, at all).

Nice little one-liners there, though, I'll give you that.

[Thinkingabout]

52. How is the tax dollars raised?

[ljm2002]

69. How is tax dollars raised in general? n/t

[SoLeftIAmRight]

92. you have to wonder

how much thinking some do

[rhett o rick]

27. You thought you heard? Really? We can't afford health care for at least all the children

of this country but we can spend billions and billions on weapons for killing. We can spend $25 trillion to bail out the banksters.

We are speaking of universal health care now. Remove Bernie from the equation so that hatred won't get in the way.

Do you support universal health care?

[Ken Burch]

94. ACA would stay in place until single-payer was approved.

It's not as though introducing a single-payer bill would instantly make the ACA vanish.

[JaneyVee]

5. Any meaningful step towards single payer needs to start with...

A public option first. Even then, funding it isnt a problem, the lack of doctors, nurses, and hospitals is, since our population is 330 million.

[BlueCaliDem]

28. I agree. A Public Option is the next step now that we've had ObamaCare for a while and

people are used to it. Single-payer is a step too far for now.

Lots of people like to point to how other countries have single-payer, but they forget those countries have a smaller population than the United States.

Single-payer is just not feasible for us at this point in time. Jeezus, we just got ObamaCare through and Democrats had been pummeled and punished for it by losing the House and then the Senate. The message they got was, if you want national health care insurance for all Americans, you do so at the risk of losing your seat to Republicans. I don't think any Democratic pol looks forward to that.

[George Eliot]

72. and less wealth and a smaller tax base and fewer billionaires

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

7. 7-6 is hopeful???

nt

[geek tragedy]

12. It's as if Hillary won nt

[think]

13. And the American people will have no hope of getting universal healthcare. Awesome.

She's so inspiring....

[SaschaHM]

45. Ding Ding Ding...

I'm not sure why some folks expected this to be a Bernie Speech.

[Andy823]

48. Yes she won

However it looks like the "old gang" of doom and gloom we had during the primary are back and once again are trying their best to dominate the boards with their own "agenda". I guess it's just not much fun on JPR when everyone there is of the same mind set that Hillary is worse than Trump.

[geek tragedy]

50. some were under the impression that the runner-up gets to write

the entire platform I guess.

[George Eliot]

73. So you agree HRC doesn't want single-payor? Ask for less is our meme?

That's the conclusion I get from everybody focusing on who won instead of what we can try to get.

[geek tragedy]

77. She favors expanding the ACA, not starting over from scratch.

This is well-known.

[Frustratedlady]

14. What in the devil are they trying to do...lose the election?

First, they knock out the $15 minimum wage. That fight is what a lot of the millennials were concerned about. Bernie drew them in, now the Democrats should keep their attention, not diss their concerns. Free college will be next.

I can just see the Democratic convention as being turned into a party elite get-together. They apparently don't care about the little guy anymore.

[Duval]

42. Not only losing the election, but losing Democrats!

[TwilightZone]

56. $15/hour is in

http://www.thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/284888-dems-adopt-15-minimum-wage-in-draft-platform

The threads about it being voted down were based on faulty information. Specific language in the provision was voted down. The provision itself was not.

[w4rma]

68. Clinton's preferred language on a $15 minimum wage is weak and ineffectual. Indexing was rejected.

Rep. Keith Ellison, who was appointed to the committee by Sanders, proposed an amendment to the DNC’s platform that would make support for a $15 per hour federal minimum wage absolutely unambiguous.

The platform originally simply stated that the Democratic Party hopes to “raise and index the minimum wage,” with an earlier implication that this could be $15. Ellison proposed that the language be made clearer and stronger, changed from mere support to a demand to “raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour and index it.”

The audience attending the public hearing applauded in response to Rep. Ellison’s amendment.
http://www.salon.com/2016/06/25/clinton_appointees_oppose_15_minimum_wage_amendment_in_democratic_platform_sanders_surrogates_back_it/

[George Eliot]

74. Difference between "we want it!" and "well, we don't really mean it..."

[still_one]

63. No they didn't knock out the 15 minimum wage. That was a total misrepresentation. What was

rejected was redundant wording, not the 15 dollar minimum wage.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512217625

Here is one from the Hill which says the platform contains the 15 min wage

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141500250#post3

[workinclasszero]

97. "First, they knock out the $15 minimum wage." That's false...

Dem platform includes a $15 min wage, repealing the Hyde Amendment & expanding Social Security...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512218946

Why are you trying to sell that disinformation about 15 dollar minimum wage here?

[Sancho]

17. Single-payer won't happen in the US anytime soon....makes sense..

A public option may show up in some states and spread. There may be extensions of Medicaid, Medicare, and similar expansions.

Actually, there are LOTS of different "single-payer" models.

The goal is universal coverage - including 11-20 million undocumented, and a change in momentum with the healthcare-for-profit system.

The Democratic platform should simply reflect social values in a rational way.

[Andy823]

60. I agree

But there are some here on this thread that really don't want to hear anything that does not fit into their own bubble. They would rather trash and bash and spread their doom and gloom instead of actually waiting to see what happens when Clinton becomes president. Their goal has always been to promote the "anyone but Hillary" meme, even though that meme is a right wing talking point. They did the same thing with President Obama from day one.

[NWCorona]

21. It appears so

[randome]

22. You don't stake out a position you know you will lose.

Single payer is not possible so long as the Republicans maintain a majority in Congress. So what's the point in making this the official platform when it has no possibility of happening in the foreseeable future?

You think you can throw "Third Way" into any conversation and expect it to be self-explanatory? It's not.

[rhett o rick]

29. Bad rationalization. You set goals and work towards them. The Big Corporations

don't want universal health care and that's the reason for non-support by part of our Party.

[randome]

30. It's more complicated than that. I think.

The economy would actually take quite a hit if all medical insurance firms were suddenly disbanded. It could be done gradually, of course, but, again, it's doomed to failure so long as the Republicans are in charge of Congress.

Does it make sense to beat your head against the wall? Do you think voters will remember and reward those who failed? They won't. They don't.

If it's a goal, then we have no choice but to work our asses off for it.

But if it's a goal that you know is useless, then the entire Democratic platform is useless. Granted, many think of it that way anyways, but why bother proving them right? There is nothing to be gained.

[rhett o rick]

33. Ahh the "it's complicated" rationalization. The Big Corporations that have their lobbists

setting in the offices of Congress and they don't want universal health care and their puppets yield.

When we started using cars the buggy whip manufacturers went out of business. I don't see the terrible impact of the greedy health insurance companies going out of business. They make their profits on the pain of the People.
Actually they still would have business like in many other modern countries that don't let Goldman-Sachs run their governments. Universal health care would provide basic care and would be supplemented by private health insurance LIKE MEDICARE IS TODAY.

It's a goal, put it in the platform.

[George Eliot]

75. Offering single payor would entice many Republicans to vote Democratic.

Those red staters want health care for their kids. Offering Republican lite won't change a thing. Isn't it time to think about how to bring more dems into Congress? Yes, gerrymandering has created a permanent Republican stronghold but it can be changed if the Democrats are bold enough to try.

[FreakinDJ]

24. They voted down a livable wage too

3rd Way

[randome]

25. You're misinformed.

[still_one]

64. No they didn't. Get your facts straight.

The redundant wording that was rejected, not the 15 dollar minimum wage:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512217625

Here is one from the Hill which says the platform contains the 15 min wage

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141500250#post3

[workinclasszero]

98. Say what?? Really??

Dem platform includes a $15 min wage, repealing the Hyde Amendment & expanding Social Security...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512218946

[rhett o rick]

31. They are sticking the thumbs in the eyes of the millions that have come out to

support a progressive agenda for the Democrats. Do the Party Elites think they can do this without some blowback?

What is put in the platform are goals. Some Democrats won't even set $15 and hour AS A GOAL. They won't set up universal health care AS A GOAL.


Note: Apparently there is some confusion as to whether the goal of a $15 min wage is in the platform or not. I watched a video showing it getting voted down.

[TwilightZone]

55. $15/hour is in

http://www.thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/284888-dems-adopt-15-minimum-wage-in-draft-platform

The video you saw was voting down specific language. It was misrepresented as voting on the provision itself.

[rhett o rick]

58. Thank you. Bravo to the platform committee. nm

[still_one]

65. What you saw is a edited video rejecting redundant wording, not the 15 dollar minimum wage

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512217625

Here is one from the Hill which says the platform contains the 15 min wage

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141500250#post3

[B Calm]

32. Insurance lobby has a lot of influence in Washington.

[swhisper1]

34. number 3

not a surprise, but close enough to lend hope

[Trust Buster]

35. Placing single payer in the platform would only serve as a party-wide rebuke of the President's

signature legislative accomplishment. It would achieve nothing else. Until the 2020 Census, the Republicans are assured of House control and the same people that have voted 62 times to repeal the ACA would not allow single payer to even be debated on the floor.

[cosmicone]

37. This is good news

It deprives republicans of ammunition of "death panels" and the like. ACA is gradually going to evolve into single payer anyway - why put one's cards on the table and invite attacks?

[SaschaHM]

38. Isn't the candidate's position that we should expand the ACA?

If the Single payer amendment wasn't a pledge to do that and instead something more akin to what Bernie proposed during the primary, of course it was going to be voted down. The platform is not going to be a rehash of the primary. On subjects of which there was some convention between the candidates, the presumptive nominee (and the popular sitting president) will always win.

[bigwillq]

40. .....

[La Lioness Priyanka]

41. no, a majority don't and most who do aren't willing to make compromises about it

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/02/people-have-no-idea-what-single-payer-means/471045/

[bahrbearian]

44. Its either single payer or a No-Fly Zone in Syria , can't have both.

[TransitJohn]

46. A majority of NRA members support common sense gun control like increased background checks, too

Political elites just don't give a flying fuck what we simple peons want, as we don't pay them well. You ever see Warren Beatty's movie Bulworth?

[Triana]

47. The "Democratic" platform is AGAINST: single-payer healthcare, $15 min wage and FOR TPP

Can I say "I told you so" yet?

[TwilightZone]

53. "Support the TPP" - no. "No $15 min/wage" - that's in already.

Leaving the TPP out entirely is not the same as being for it. Not everything is a binary choice.

As for $15/hour, that's in: http://www.thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/284888-dems-adopt-15-minimum-wage-in-draft-platform

The zillion threads about it being voted down were based on faulty information.

[Triana]

59. THANK YOU. That's actually a relief.

It's the kind of wrong I LIKE to be.

[jillan]

57. Did I hear last night that they are pro fracking?

Who are these people?

[Triana]

61. IF this is correct (seems a lot of misinfo out there...)

https://shadowproof.com/2016/06/25/clinton-democrats-block-fracking-ban/

[NorthCarolina]

51. Those entities that make the Platform members personally wealthy don't really want it though.

That's how DC operates. The best Government money CAN buy.

[AzDar]

62. And the usual crew will be here soon to spew all the bullshit re: how this doesn't matter...

what a fucking FARCE.

[KingFlorez]

83. Donald Trump would qualify for universal health care

Those who can really afford good insurance and even pay out of pocket if necessary should not qualify for universal health care. Giving away free health care to those who don't need it is a waste. We should be focusing more on those who cannot afford it, not making it free in every single income bracket.

[HerbChestnut]

84. So you want means testing?

[KingFlorez]

85. Free healthcare should have income limits

If the government is going to provide free healthcare, I don't think people with yearly incomes of 6 and 7 digits should qualify.

[HerbChestnut]

87. So would you use their tax dollars to help support it?

[KingFlorez]

89. Yes

We have federal housing programs that have income limits to participate in, yet they are still funded by taxpayer dollars. With that said, I think ACA is an effective program and can be expanded upon to be even better. ACA is what we should stick with.

[HerbChestnut]

90. So you would have wealthy people pay for healthcare twice? And here's some info on federal housing

http://www.cbpp.org/research/housing/chart-book-federal-housing-spending-is-poorly-matched-to-need

You can see the holes in your federal housing argument. Not to mention you'd be asking people to pay thousands of dollars per year into a system they can't use. Not only is that politically dumb, but it's immoral and plays right into the conservative narrative that "taxation is theft". In this case, it would be.

Btw, the ACA is garbage and needs to be replaced. We still have 10s of millions of people without health insurance, an untold number of people with insurance plans that bankrupt them if they need medical attention, and skyrocketing premiums. Small businesses are being put to the sword because of healthcare costs, and the ACA does nothing to address those. So long as the ACA exists it just ensures that private insurance companies will be allowed to make a profit off of people's health.

[KingFlorez]

91. Plans should not be tailored to avoid conservative rhetoric

I don't follow the conservative line of thinking on ACA or healthcare. I'm a progressive who supports ACA. Thanks for your concern...

[youceyec]

86. Stop trying to impose

Bernie Sanders campaign on the rest of us. Hillary won. She is entitled to call the shots.

[HerbChestnut]

88. 55-45

You can't just ignore the views of 13 million people

[youceyec]

96. never before has this been said in previous primaries

until Hillary ran. I wonder why...oh wait, cause shes female!

[HerbChestnut]

104. Oh yeah, that must be it

[Chathamization]

99. It's supported by 73% of Democrats. Shouldn't the platform reflect the party?

Last edited Sun Jun 26, 2016, 03:28 PM - Edit history (1)

Here.

[BlueCheese]

93. There are many ways of achieving universal health care.

Single payer is only one of them. In fact, I think most countries that have universal health care don't have single payer.

Right now, 90% of Americans are covered by health insurance. Polls show that a majority of them actually like their insurance, whether it's employer-provided, Tricare, Medicare, Medicaid, or something else. So which makes more sense of the following two?

1) Expand coverage to the 10% of Americans who are currently uninsured, and improve the coverage of those who are underinsured, through things like a public option to the ACA.

2) Tell the 90% of Americans who already have insurance and the 100+ million people who like their plans that their health insurance is switching to something completely new and unknown.

Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party believe health care is a right. Just because the party doesn't affirmatively endorse one possible way of achieving this isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[Socal31]

95. No other country expends the resources we do on .mil.

Between foreign aide, protecting Europe, Japan, Taiwan, and Seoul, and keeping up multiple war fronts, on top of maintaining the most advanced air and sea programs on the planet, we are broke.

Having UHC on the agenda without also having a complete overhaul of US foreign policy is disingenuous at best.

Some might say that would be a great trade off.

[DanTex]

105. As they should. Hillary is our nominee, Hillary is where the party is.

About those polls you're citing, the majority want single payer only if there aren't any tax increases and if people can continue to keep their current coverage. In other words, they are meaningless, all they show is that people don't understand what single payer is.

[sofa king]

107. Somehow, I am okay with this.

Single-payer is a charged issue that has been poisoned by billions in mind-control marketing since the 1990s. There are many voters who do not and never will understand the issue until it lands in their laps and saves their lives.

But Hillary Clinton knows. She well remembers how conservatives and the insurance industry teamed up and savaged her with personal attacks for eight years, and won.

The current state of affairs is a compromise which was never intended to last. It needs to be fixed, soon it's going to have to be fixed and, if the Don keeps saying what's on his twisted mind, it will be able to be fixed as he drags the Republican Congress to the sewers with him.

So, I conclude, it might be to our advantage to leave this off the platform so that Republicans cannot use it as a weapon. I will be astonished and deeply disappointed if President Clinton fails to address it.

[Hiraeth]

110. oh my god. isn't it all fabulous!!