2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumAll indicators point towards Kaine as VP choice.
The bottom line is that he is the safest choice. He has both executive and legislative experience, he is from a swing state, he is a little to Clinton's right, he is relatively scandal-free (though as Governor he was accused of handing out political appointments in return for gifts).
Castro is lacking in experience, Brown would result in a loss of a seat in the Senate, and Warren is too important to the Senate to sideline by making her VP. Perez has never held political office, O'Malley is from blue Maryland instead of purple Virginia and is not very popular even in his own state, and Sanders would be seen as too far left and is too critical of Clinton.
I am not sure who I would prefer as VP. Part of me would like a strong proponent of immigrant rights (Castro or O'Malley would fit this bill), or someone with genuine economic expertise (Warren), or someone who is much less hawkish than Clinton. I am also less worried about choosing someone who will bring in votes because I frankly don't see how Trump can possibly win. But given the abomination that is Trump, there is a strong argument to be made for playing it safe.
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)PJMcK
(21,988 posts)But I have to agree with the OP: She's too important as a senator. Plus, as others have noted, her seat would be filled by a Republican, (Governor Baker of Massachusetts is Republican). Generally, the role of the vice president is so diminishing that it seems that Senator Warren's exceptional talents would be wasted.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)day, but the ability of presidents to pick their own VPs has changed everything.
I think we'd all find Kaine more interesting after we saw him more. After all, the first big part of his job would be ripping into the Republicans, and they provide so much that needs ripping into these days.
I don't see all the "indicators" Vattel is talking about, though. "Can't leave the Senate" isn't real----if she was chosen it'd be knowing she'll be replaced after a short interval with another Democrat.
And, as pointed out on other posts, the "wasted" argument is a few decades out of date. The extreme reaction of Wall Street to rumors that Warren might be considered should be a big clue to that. Of course the reaction was also a warning directly to Clinton herself as they took Warren as an indicator of the direction Clinton could be going.
underpants
(182,585 posts)I've met him on several occasions having worked on his 2012 campaign and appearing in a TV ad with him when he ran for Governor.
Male (sorry the conventional balance) with executive experience as Mayor and Governor, from a southern state (Va will be a pretty sure thing), Roman Catholic who speaks fluent Spanish which he learned on his 1 year mission work in Honduras.
tallahasseedem
(6,716 posts)If he is the pick (I think it would be a good one) you'll have to let us know about your experiences!
Response to DURHAM D (Reply #1)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
think
(11,641 posts)They get what they want or hundreds of millions in donations will be withheld. It's not rocket science.
Response to think (Reply #9)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
think
(11,641 posts)tallahasseedem
(6,716 posts)I want someone who can do the job...period! I'm not at all concerned about the warm and fuzzies.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)in the Senate. I'd never want to see him become President, either.
O'Malley would be a much better choice for many reasons.
dsc
(52,147 posts)Dem governor
merrily
(45,251 posts)dsc
(52,147 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)dsc
(52,147 posts)Last edited Wed Jun 29, 2016, 09:05 PM - Edit history (1)
we would have to win in 2017.
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)Another right leaner who also had to evolve e on gay rights and is "pro life". Nope not interested!
merrily
(45,251 posts)The one Hillary wants to re-construct?
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)Pro: When Bernie Sanders was asked about Kaine as VP, Sanders said "I like him very much."
Con: Kaine voted for a law which will fast-track every trade deal for six years.
merrily
(45,251 posts)think
(11,641 posts)It's pretty obvious who's pulling the strings....
Numerous Wall Street donors identified Virginia Senator Tim Kaine as their preferred vice presidential nominee.
Read more:
http://fortune.com/2016/06/20/wall-street-elizabeth-warren/
Response to think (Reply #7)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
think
(11,641 posts)They aren't patron saints...
Response to think (Reply #17)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
think
(11,641 posts)That's Citizen's United talk you're using.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood
Response to think (Reply #19)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
think
(11,641 posts)Response to think (Reply #21)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
think
(11,641 posts)Response to think (Reply #24)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
think
(11,641 posts)NYC Liberal
(20,135 posts)What goes to a Super PAC does not go a campaign.
angrychair
(8,677 posts)A Clinton campaign loyalist created a PAC that allows the campaign to coordinate with the SuperPACs. The loophole has been discussed in the media for months and that the campaign is using one to coordinate with SuperPACs is also public knowledge (this is not a slam but a stating of facts)
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hillary-clinton-plans-to-coordinate-directly-with-super-pac/
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)Last edited Thu Jun 30, 2016, 10:47 AM - Edit history (1)
Wall Street is not people. It is corpations. Corporations are not people. Yes people run them and those people get one vote like the rest of us. The money corporations have does not give them more rights and should not give them an extra voice!
Democrats for democracy not oligarchy!
Response to Silver_Witch (Reply #55)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)Your response is cruel and over the top. Nothing in my post dehumanized people. Just corporations they pay tonnage a voice.
We are finished now!
Response to Silver_Witch (Reply #90)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)Last edited Fri Jul 1, 2016, 05:08 PM - Edit history (2)
How dare you? Do you have any idea how many nights I have stayed with my son while he suffers through terror? You are beyond cruel and prove my point very well. This site is full! Of cruel people only interested Self!
My husband and I were in DC. He worked for the FAA and was locked down during the crisis and I finally got home after hours of total abject terror and not being able to to reach my son.
Wall Street are corporations and everyone here knows that. The corporations don't get to vote! People do.
Finally not only bankers were hurt in 9/11. WE ALL WERE!
Response to Silver_Witch (Reply #92)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Response to think (Reply #7)
Post removed
think
(11,641 posts)Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)Trump is hiring? Wow!
tallahasseedem
(6,716 posts)talking about how comfortable Hillary is working with him, etc. It could be another Barack/Joe scenario, which is fine by me!
Vinca
(50,236 posts)Kaine is a snooze and probably the worst pick of the bunch.
Response to Vinca (Reply #8)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)When will be the year? When will we be able to vote for a left candidate. We are the party of the left aren't we? Did I come to the wrong place?
Response to Silver_Witch (Reply #59)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
Vinca
(50,236 posts)Hillary needs to generate some excitement (Warren) and not put people to sleep with Kaine.
The race is not tied. Is that what the MSM is saying?
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)Plus, he was "exciting enough" to win NUMEROUS campaigns.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)I had assumed it would have been Castro but things have changed with Trump as the nominee and the fact that Castro doesnt really have a good a resume as I original thought. Kaine is solid, experienced, excellent background, Virgina and he gives Hillary some "white guy" creds white she really needs. They would be a tough combo to beat.
I agree with you. This is not a time to be fanfic'ing a ticket. It has to make sense, and I think Kaine could do that with everything you talked about.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Safe seat, she has plenty of smarts and gravitas, etc.
I think Kaine is the choice if Clinton is playing a prevent defense. I think Warren is the choice if she's trying to run up the score and create a wave of enthusiasm.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)"I think Kaine is the choice if Clinton is playing a prevent defense. I think Warren is the choice if she's trying to run up the score and create a wave of enthusiasm."
Well-put
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...but I can't name one issue she's passionate about it.
If HRC chooses a MN US Senator, then I'd prefer Al Franken who is passionate about Net Neutrality and clean energy jobs, among other things.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)but I think his history as a comedian/author who made some over-the-top comments wouldn't be the best for Clinton as she tries to undermine Trump on temperament grounds.
If the opponent were Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush, I think he'd be a very strong contender.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)are having a tantrum they make jokes because it is their job to make jokes. Ronald Reagan, favorite President of Reagan Democrats and Republicans made amusing films with a chimp as his co-star but Al having made jokes is a disqualification?
I'm sorry but once you elect a chimp's straight man to be POTUS it's not credible to claim that a comic is some new level of indignity. Specifics are called for after you have sung Hail To the Chief to this:
book_worm
(15,951 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)But I don't get DU, not that it has demonstrated the minimum of consistency of argument or thought ...
To the question of whether Sanders wants the VP spot, DU responds, both, "No, he wants real change ... etc." AND, "We want Warren as VP." So Sanders would be neutered in the VP spot, and the DU course is take an effective Senator (out of the close Senate) and put her in that spot?
No ... The best course is to plug the spot(s) Clinton misses, i.e., male (I know, that's sexist), with someone boring; but, by most accounts, competence, capable and a heck of a campaigner; rather than, with someone because feeling remain hurt.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)combination of views is kind of paradoxical. I am torn about Warren, but I do really want her in the Senate where she can have some clout.
One argument on the other side is that making her VP could help her chances of becoming President where she would have even more clout. I am not sure what to make of that. I am also unsure what her foreign policy views are, and so I don't know whether I want her to be President.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)where she can, further, develop and broaden her political persona, which will prepare her for a 2020/2028 run, should she so desire. But more, I don't want to see a strong Senator remained from the close Senate ... same for Sherrod Brown ... we need someone to write the legislation to move us in the more progressive direction we seek and we need more progressives in the Senate (and House) to pass said progressive legislation.
We do not need a strong progressive in a constitutionally constrained, bully pulpit role ... it's the difference between TALKING about getting stuff done and positioning ourselves to ACTUALLY get stuff done.
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)You'll probably not like that I think Kaine fills another HRC gap ... he is 58 years old.
(OMG, that is totally ageist!!!!)
oswaldactedalone
(3,489 posts)it seems to be the best choice. The other choices are either too valuable in the Senate or don't have enough experience.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)I see him as someone who could confidently stand up to bully Rump. I've started to worry that Castro is not politically tough enough, yet, to take on that scum bag. But I'm sure he will be someday. Kaine is also very intelligent, and thinks before he sounds off, unlike Rump. The Spanish speaking feature is a huge plus. I've decided he would make a great choice!
ibeplato
(66 posts)IHMHO Clinton is at her core, an attack dog. She's going to pick Warren because they are of like mind, similar to why her Husband picked Gore.
Kaine is definitely the safest pick, but he brings really nothing to the table. Warren will fill the perfect VP role of attacking and antagonizing Trump while Clinton focuses on the 'vision' thing.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)If Hillary chooses him...she's going to lose and in that degree of political tone-deafness, such defeat would be, if not deserved--at-least, predictably obvious. It would be apparent she learned nothing from her first primary defeat and a second primary that was closer than she imagined it ever could be...both because Americans and Democrats in particular have whole-heartedly rejected the legacy of Bill and what the Kaine wing of the party represents. She didn't win because of these things...she won in spite of them once and lost because of them the first time.
Kaine is and should be a non-negotiable non-starter. Tim Kaine needs to take the Harold Ford track out of politics...by which, I mean he needs to sit down, shut the fuck up and take a job as a Wall St. stooge.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Tim Kaine is such a bigot that his appointment to Party Chair caused me to lose much affection and trust in the Party, Kaine's lack of success in that position made that choice even worse, they picked a conservative and bigoted person for his 'skills' and those skills cost us seats.
Might as well hang a sign on the door saying you only care about this election and winning by not being Trump. This is not the way to have a powerful administration. This is not the way to take the Congress back nor to hold the WH for two or more terms.
Kaine signed the Marshall-Newman Amendment as Governor, which defined marriage as between 'one man and one woman'. He had said he opposed it as candidate then he supported it in office.
https://www.queerty.com/tim-kaine-opposes-gay-marriage-opposes-unmarried-people-adopting-but-wants-gays-to-adopt-20110409
Trust is a major item on the table this cycle. I do not trust Tim Kaine in the least. Not at all. He's not trustworthy. Says one thing, does another.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)Response to Vattel (Reply #50)
Post removed
Her Sister
(6,444 posts)http://www.dailynewsbin.com/opinion/ten-thoughts-on-a-clinton-warren-2016-ticket/25025/
Personally I trust the nominee to choose her running mate.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Warren shows that she is a fierce attack dog, and her appearances with Clinton shows that they work well together.
My only concern about Warren is what happens with her seat in Massachusets.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)defining marriage as only for straight couples, his hand denied the civil rights of every LGBT person in Virginia and he did that after having claimed he would not do that.
FSogol
(45,435 posts)a referendum on the ballot. Citizens of VA approved it by 57%, but it was declared unconstitutional in 2014. Blaming Kaine is crap.
csziggy
(34,131 posts)The governor did not sign it and could not have stopped it.
Constitutional amendment (voter referendum); marriage. Provides for a referendum at the November 2006 election on approval of a proposed constitutional amendment to define marriage. The proposed amendment provides that "only a union between one man and one woman may be a marriage valid in or recognized by this Commonwealth and its political subdivisions." The proposed amendment also prohibits the Commonwealth and its political subdivisions from creating or recognizing "a legal status for relationships of unmarried individuals that intends to approximate the design, qualities, significance, or effects of marriage." Further, the proposed amendment prohibits the Commonwealth or its political subdivisions from creating or recognizing "another union, partnership, or other legal status to which is assigned the rights, benefits, obligations, qualities, or effects of marriage." This bill is identical to HB 101.
<SNIP>
03/15/06 House: Signed by Speaker
03/16/06 Senate: Signed by President
04/10/06 House: Bill became law without Governor's signature, Chapter 828 (effective 7/1/06)
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?061+sum+SB526
Emphasis added by me.
In the time you've spent posting the same lie over a dozen times, you could have researched it and found that you are spreading a LIE. But that is not what you want to do, is it? You're not interested in the truth at all.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)He brings nothing to the table as far as I'm concerned.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Tim Kaine pressed on gay marriage stance
"Asked whether gay couples should be given marriage licenses by the state, he said, There should be a license that would entitle a committed couple to the same rights as a married couple.
But would that be called a marriage license? I think the labels get in the way of the issue, Kaine said.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/virginia-politics/post/tim-kaine-pressed-on-gay-marriage-stance/2012/05/08/gIQAvYPdAU_blog.html#comments
His entire school of thought should be left to the past. Labels did not get in the way of our rights people like Tim Kaine did that.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,576 posts)Kaine is just another boring white guy who won't add a damn thing to the ticket. The fact that he's a little to Clinton's right sure won't get the young Sanders supporters to the polls. We don't need safe at this point; we need an interesting person who will be a strong advocate for civil rights and who will add excitement to the ticket. Not another suit.
NYCButterfinger
(755 posts)Kaine is a manager. He was a governor. He governed a state. If anything happened to Clinton, you want Warren or Castro answering the phone?
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,576 posts)Not all young Sanders supporters are unreliable, and you'd better believe the turnout would be a lot better if the ticket didn't look and taste like a day-old slice of unbuttered Wonder Bread.
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)I would absolutely expect Warren to be a better president than Kaine.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)John Poet
(2,510 posts)If it's Kaine, I think I'll just go right to sleep for the next five months.
NYCButterfinger
(755 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)The rich appreciate, if not respect, politicians who protect their right to keep and bear wealth.
TrueDemVA
(250 posts)It's so sad to see the party firmly entrenched center-right. We have become the party controlled by Wall Street and in love with awful free trade agreements.
chillfactor
(7,572 posts)BORING!
tallahasseedem
(6,716 posts)I'd like Warren to continue to do a magnificent job in the Senate. She could be the next Teddy Kennedy!
CherokeeDem
(3,709 posts)That's just wrong. Kaine is ineffective as a Senator and DNC chair....
She needs Castro... she needs the youth and Latino vote and he can deliver.... besides you cannot tell me he is not better prepared than Dan Quale or some of the other nutcases the Repubs have put up.
Castro is smart, charismatic and has 8 years to learn.....