2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumStringing people along often backfires.
A young woman who was a college friend of mine when we were both in our last year had a boyfriend who proposed to her more than once. She told me that she'd eventually say yes, but that she was testing him to see if he really meant it.
He finally asked someone else who said yes, and the two of them went to Vegas and got married that weekend, just before graduation. My friend was devastated.
Sometimes, testing people leads to circumstances you didn't anticipate. It's always risky to put decisions off to make some sort of point. People often lose patience and just move on.
Maybe it's time for Bernie Sanders to stop stringing Hillary and the rest of us along. I don't know...
ETA: This post is about an endorsement. The primaries are over. Maybe I wasn't clear.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,658 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)sueh
(1,825 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Sanders followers believed he wanted has been included in the Democratic Party platform. I understand that he is very serious about his ultimate goals and that many of his followers have various strong motivations for sill following him.
But he is clearly now drawing this out through the long dog days until the convention, trying to lose as little support as possible. His speeches are a mixture of genuine anti-Republican messages mixed with "the-revolution-continues" stoking of anti-Democrat resentments for those who want that, promises of anti-elite destruction to keep others from running off to Trump, suggestions of stolen votes for those who know evil conspiracies are at work, hopes of someday replacing this mortal coil for a new, unspoiled system for the unsatisfied dreamers.
Not saying he can't run his ongoing campaign as he believes it should be--the primary period is technically still going--but we're also still weeks out from the convention.
MineralMan
(146,282 posts)This is about helping the nominee win. This is about a solid endorsement. The primaries are over already.
HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)peruse the DU forums to confirm that sentiment of HRC supporters...
why all this effort all over DU and on MSM to marginalize and diminish Bernie then viola these 'backhanded' pivot posts spring up...
make up your mind does or doesn't Bernie matter to HRC and her supporters?
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)He waited too late. Now, he just looks sad.
HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512226462
HRC and her supporters aren't paying attention to the facts and details
Brexit should be a wake up call as it concerns the 'protest' vote this election cycle
Number23
(24,544 posts)And I'm sure it's a coincidence that the same caliber of folks supporting Trump are the same ones that brought Brexit to the world.
HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)the Quinnipiac and now the PPP polls prove a point that folks aren't exactly swinging over to HRC like many HRC supporters here on DU 'insist' is occurring...
Number23
(24,544 posts)backs of white people, that surprises absolutely no one.
White Sanders supporters have flocked to Hillary in droves. That's what people are referring to.
HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)continue to ignore the reality before ya, many HRC supporters on DU sure are...
Brexit should be a 'clarion call', why folks here on DU continue to ignore the facts and the underlying protest vote is stunning to see
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)There will be no "clarion call" in the US. And stop quoting Trump.
HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)there is a parallel to that UK 'protest' vote and what's going on here... the narratives being driven there as they are here in US are uncanny, and to ignore the facts and those similarities will be our doom come Nov
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)by the democratic party or others here?
From what I've read, the slim majority that voted for Brexit were driven primarily by bigotry & confusion.
HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americans-distaste-for-both-trump-and-clinton-is-record-breaking/
leads to this...
the parallels are stunning.. you can actually transpose the phrasings used in the Brexit political banter before the vote to what's being stated here in US by Trump
these is a concerted effort here in DU to 'insulate' the candidate rather than deal with the realities of this...
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/27/politics/hillary-clinton-trust-2016-election/
"I personally know I have work to do on this front," Clinton said at a Rainbow Push Collation luncheon, from prepared remarks. Clinton, the presumptive Democratic nominee, spoke at length about a deterioration of trust throughout the country and institutions, but argued that her own trustworthiness issues are a byproduct of politicians looking to score political points and "25 years' worth of wild accusations."
"A lot of people tell pollsters they don't trust me. Now I don't like hearing that and I have thought a lot about what is behind it," she said. Clinton has long struggled to explain why voters don't trust her"
She even acknowledges the issue exists.. but here in DU... posts/OPs get hidden that point that very fact out...
I'd rather not make the mistake UK did, but alas I don't see folks heeding let alone learning from the recent example they have given us
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)variety can't accept that the US is no longer revolving around them.
randome
(34,845 posts)HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)that wouldn't be the case being made from HRC supporters
care to rephrase that?
840high
(17,196 posts)much in the bag. Stop focusing on Bernie -
Mr Maru
(216 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Or, rather, not.
JudyM
(29,225 posts)Response to MineralMan (Original post)
Post removed
MineralMan
(146,282 posts)I think Bernie should decide whether he's going to support Hillary or not. I don't need any help with that decision.
athena
(4,187 posts)and does not belong on DU. It's meant to humiliate the person it is said to, but in fact it demeans the person who says it.
If you can't make a point without insulting someone, then perhaps the point you're trying to make is not very strong and does not deserve to be made.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)The OP obsesses with Sanders.
Thanks for the free analysis, though.
athena
(4,187 posts)you do it gently, kindly, privately. You don't insult them and demean them publicly.
I don't think your suggestion was intended as anything but a hurtful insult. In fact, you managed to insult not only Mineral Man, but anyone who has ever needed professional help.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)doc.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)our brand of Democracy as honorable and trustworthy...
what do you truly stand for?
Truth
Justice
or
The New American Way
SpareribSP
(325 posts)MineralMan
(146,282 posts)SpareribSP
(325 posts)Would endorsing Hillary even make sense? Sanders has his camp who wants him to fight until the end, and it would feel like a betrayal for them for him to back out until he fights for his platform to the convention, and beyond.
He has a sort of half-endorsement already (I'll vote for her over Trump, and Trump must be stopped) etc, but I think having multiple points of view isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'll agree that he should obviously promote Hillary over Trump (and he is) but I think it's healthy for him to continue to push for what he wants. A full throated endorsement while he's still fighting for things like single payer etc would feel hollow from him, it would feel like a purely strategic move with no heart behind it, and that's not good for either Hillary or Bernie I think.
Either way, in November in a Hillary vs. Trump race, I doubt he'll be a thorn in Hillary's side. Instead, he'll whip up that youth vote and help carve out that space. Better for him to do it as a Democrat than an independent or otherwise, no?
PJMcK
(22,023 posts)Aren't there things he could be doing to advance his goals using the power and position he has?
I'm not interested in relitigating the Democratic Primary, only in making certain that Democrats win their elections. Perhaps all Democrats could consider this approach.
Tal Vez
(660 posts)People should give him the space to do what he wants. I suspect he gets a lot of pressure from some that warn that an endorsement might soil his purity, but I also suspect that he's been around too long to take his own purity too seriously. He's not exactly a blushing virgin. But, still, I'm sure he receives pressure from competing sources. In the end, he will probably do the right thing and join the effort to defeat Trump.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)about the Democratic party claiming to be the party of the left.
Maybe time to move on.
HarmonyRockets
(397 posts)msongs
(67,381 posts)Her Sister
(6,444 posts)She showed her insecurity by her need to "test" him! Complicating things unnecessarily. Insecure people are a pain! He dodged a bullet.
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)I don't see it as stringing along, more, keeping up with what he's always done.
Doing posts like this towards Sanders and his supporters, particularly as Clinton is now considered the nominee merely heightens tensions as it can be considered condescending.
First off, Sanders ran for the Presidency not to win, but to give voice to the values and issues that he considers to be lost in the general shuffle of things. This does not mean that he would need to endorse. In fact he is fighting by supporting Local Elections and helping Progressive candidates win.
Stating that one would vote for Hillary on the General Election does not mean it endorses her, or validates that her method, means and issues are right and true.
Again, he is merely doing what he has always done, which is bring to light issues that have been put in the back-burner, in regards to the Banks, Trade, and many other issues in regards to fairness.
I don't see the need for him to endorse Hillary to support Democrats and to defeat Trump. I tend to think that helping in local elections would mitigate damage done by any Presidency, particularly one as potentially disastrous as Trump.
Hillary has won the Primaries, lambast Sanders for whatever policy issues you disagree with him with. Expecting him to endorse Hillary just because that is what everyone else does as a politician is ridiculous as he is not a typical one.
In regards to stringing along, voters tend to feel strung along by promises that tend to be broken or not even fought for. Like another poster here mentioned, there are those who may just move along, and are not willing to be taken hostage by threats of someone worse.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Xyzse
(8,217 posts)Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)Bernie made it clear throughout the primary that he was not a protest candidate and that he wasn't just running to get his message out. He really was running to be president.
And what's ridiculous is saying that Bernie Sanders is exempt from keeping his word because he's "not a typical politician." You do remember that he promised to support the winner of the primary, don't you. And he placed no conditions on that promise when he made it.
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)He wanted to promote the issues near and dear to his heart.
It is why when looking at any of his speeches, he does not say "I am this", "I did that", rather most of his speeches go towards "we should, "we will", and so forth. Yes, he was running as President, but his primary focus has always been furthering his agenda.
In his words he promised to help defeat Trump. In helping down-ticket candidates/local elections, even if Trump were to win, he is fulfilling his promise to defeat Trump's/Republican agenda. He also mentioned that he will vote for Clinton. That in essence is helping to defeat Trump. Also, he did mention begrudgingly:
That though Hillary is the presumptive nominee, the convention has not happened yet, nor does support mean endorsement either.
He'll do what he thinks he should do. He even did say that he will vote for her. As for me, I did mention I will vote for her come general election if she is the nominee. I don't have to now go around trying to defend her, put out her fires or support her in any material way. I am helping by working with local elections, donating to those candidates rather than the DNC, as many issues near and dear to me is not well represented even in the Democratic platform that should be aspirational.
Individuals such as I will help out where we can, when we can, and most likely not in the way that falls in line with the DNC. Some would like to see more of a fight from the DNC in regards to fighting for the people, not giving in to the status quo immediately, which will merely push us further to the Right if they negotiate from the "middle" as they have done.
It is good to see a push, and I can appreciate both ways as I consider them both needed. So, shall we just say Clinton is getting help, just not the help that her campaign or supporter wants.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)His role in the 2016 election is over 4 weeks from today. No one is stringing anyone along. We can wait 4 weeks for him to leave the national stage.
He's not going to endorse and he's not going to help defeat Trump. Just let him do his thing and he'll be out of the way soon enough.
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)whether he officially endorses Clinton or not.
He's already said he'll vote for her.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)We need to quit worrying about what Bernie Sanders might do and when he might do it for two reasons:
1) Sanders has a mind of his own and has been driven by the passions of a true believer his entire political life. People with that kind of mindset are virtually immune to the influences of others, so he is going to do regardless of what we think or say.
2) It no longer matters what Sanders does. First we have to understand that we, the denizens of DU, are a significantly different breed than most of the voting public. Regardless of their stances or their favorite candidates, people on DU are a lot more passionate about their politics than the average bear. In the real world many Sanders supporters have already moved on to support Hillary, much like I did in 2008 when I seamlessly shifted my support from Clinton to Obama. Those passionate Sanders supporters who are left will ultimately fall into one of two camps. They will either sooner or later decide to hold their noses and vote for Clinton or there is no way that they ever will. I think the fast majority of them regard who they will ultimately vote for, or whether they will vote at all, as personal choice over which Sanders has has little or no influence.
So why don't we just let Sanders do his thing, discontinue the primary fights, and put our energy into figuring out what we can do to help Hillary win the general election.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)(by the Democratic party, to care more about progressive issues, and less about 1% problems) and they keep stringing HIM and his supporters along.
By your analogy, we need a speedy and public display of commitment, or he will walk (and who knows how many will walk out with him) and marry someone else. Even when the primaries are over, the divide in the Democratic Party is becoming more, not less acerbic. And that's because the convention is still coming and the talks about the platform are not "progressing" well. And if it weren't for Bernie, it would be a schism right now. He's the one holding things together by showing there are still ways to work with the DNC, not against them. But he'd lose all credit if he just caved on every issue. And worse: the Democratic Party would lose a bunch of support if he did that, possibly lose them for ever.
I've said it many times: the status quo is untenable. The choice right now is between the status quo and roughly one in every five voters we used to count on plus most of the new ones. I say we ditch the status quo. That one is going to crack anyway, we might as well not tie ourselves to a sinking ship.
And if Bernie is reluctant to tie himself to a sinking ship, maybe we should follow his example rather than accuse him of being flippant?
We can't do without his supporters, and for them, this has always been about way more than just Bernie. His hesitation hardly begins to represent the reluctance his supporters feel to support the presumptive candidate and the proposed platform (especially the independents among them, who are now reported to consider voting Green or even Libertarian, by as much as 40%).
If I may borrow a phrase from some time ago: it's the math. There is writing on the wall, in bold capitals. Read it.
Bernie knows that we can't afford to lose that many voters. And being in closer communication with them than the DNC, maybe he knows better than the DNC what needs to be done? Maybe just for once, we should stop condemning and start listening?
Fair enough?
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)exiled himself from the main arena of action.
Pity...he is sabotaging the very "political revolution" that he campaigned on.
Mr Maru
(216 posts)whistler162
(11,155 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)aikoaiko
(34,165 posts)You rejected what he stood for a long time ago.
Her Sister
(6,444 posts)Also he don't wanna! I'm sure we will hear from him shortly in 3, 2 ...
Chan790
(20,176 posts)If its time for a Sanders endorsement...something that no sane person should expect to come without actual policy concessions from camp Clinton, then its equally time for Hillary to make those concessions and to lay out a specific plank of proposals that show she actually wants the support of Sanders supporters and start making full-throated ambitious proposals of new progressive initiatives that show she was paying attention to what we were fighting for...which isn't what she stands for. It requires movement from where she is and what she believes in. It requires her to forsake the traditional "move to the center for GE season."
All we're seeing is Hillary say that she's a progressive, continue to appoint the same establishment insiders endorsing the same anti-prog policies to things like the platform committee, the names of our worst enemies of progressives inside the party being bandied about as potential VPs (Castro, Kaine, Booker)...it's interesting that we managed to get one of the most progressive party platform proposals ever, but it's devoid of an actual progressive initiative that isn't both curbed in her establishment cent-left ideology and isn't exactly the same proposal and worldview she's held for years.
Where are the great, ambitious proposals meant to make our lives better? I'm not talking about her proposals to fix the cost of college for some at the expense of most with "pay-for-play" schemes like loan-forbearance for "job-creators" and "entrepreneurs" (such proposals help very, very few young people struggling under the weight of student-loan debt) and child-care subsidies. (A terrible proposal and one that I hope she abandons. It has the air of "children and families are inconvenient to my employer friends who wish for you to work more hours. I'm going to pay for daycare so you can spend less time not working!"
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)He made this pledge repeatedly. He did not pledge that he would only support the nominee so long as conditions were met. To demand that concessions be made simply for him to keep his word would be highly dishonest. And for the loser of the primary to demand that the winner most adopt his platform would be incredibly conceited. If a majority of Democratic voters had wanted Bernie's platform rather than Hillary's, he would've won the nomination.
riversedge
(70,180 posts)meaningful it will mean. He had a lot of good will when the primaries ended...I no longer think he does.
PJMcK
(22,023 posts)Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...a Senator tells a chairperson who wrote a bill, "I'll co-sponsor if you add some language."
A month later, no language has been added, and the Senator hadn't co-sponsored.
Does that mean the Senator strung along the chairperson?
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)He's going back after the fact and demanding that conditions be met to get what he had promised freely before.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)NT