Eight years or so ago, I read an article by a young female writer about HRC that annoyed the shit

[La Lioness Priyanka]

out of me. The article was titled ' SORRY, HILLARY, BUT GIRLS ALREADY RULE ' and here is why i was irritated

1. girls don't rule by any leadership metric (CEO, Board positions, elected officials etc.)

2. All my female friends who were in midlevel positions then were getting stymied in their career, whereas my male friends were not experiencing this at all.

3. Young girls who are just out of college, do not face the kind of discrimination that comes 5 to ten years into a career. So while they can flippantly talk about being post-feminism, women in their late 20's onward have a very different experience of work.

Anyway, reason I bring it up now, Sara Kliff the writer of the article did a mea culpa on her podcast The Weeds and admitted that she would never write this article now. That most of her friends have had to drop out of work to have kids, that quality childcare is out of reach for most families thereby impacting women's careers etc. That she now understands that women are not ruling at all.

I felt very vindicated for disliking that flippant article 8 years ago.

http://www.newsweek.com/sorry-hillary-girls-already-rule-84139

[NCTraveler]

1. K&R nt.

[DemonGoddess]

2. K&R!

[athena]

3. Here is a recent article in which she acknowledges her mistake from eight years ago:

http://www.vox.com/2016/6/8/11866664/clinton-gender-2016

So it doesn't feel to me, like it did eight years ago, that "girls already rule," as my headline declared. Because even with a shrinking pay gap, women still do the majority of the housework and child care in families with two working parents. Women's salaries go down when they have children — but men's salaries go up. And women are still penalized for speaking "too loudly" or "too frequently" in professional settings.

"Even though women are interrupted more often and talk less than men, people still think women talk more," my college Emily Crockett recently wrote. "Women are much more likely to be perceived as 'abrasive' and get negative performance reviews as a result."

As I've spent more time in professional environments, these experiences have become more personal and real — so it matters to me, more than it did eight years ago, to see a woman succeed in spite of them.

[pnwmom]

13. Thanks, athena!

[MADem]

4. Your judgment is better than hers--they should hire YOU! nt

[Orsino]

5. Dang. You hold a grudge for a long time...

...for the best possible reasons.

I am preparing for female rule. Ought to be refreshing and educational.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

6. I had forgotten till she brought it up

Then I remembered how mad it had made me

[BlueCaliDem]

7. I commend your foresight from eight years ago, LLP! Unfortunately, young women haven't learned

since then. I still see the same o'-same o' happen in this past Democratic Party primary elections.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. i think they don't learn till they hit late 20's early 30's

and realize that sexism is very pervasive. kinda sad really.

[bettyellen]

18. It's also interesting how even women distrust what other women say....

Just as men tend to. I believe that's where they learn it from- those "egalitarian" men.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

21. Women get raised in the same society as men

and unless they are very socially conscious they are prone to the same prejudices

[bettyellen]

25. Exactly the case- but people always point to them as if we are miraculously bias free

Beings. Like magic, lol.

[Hortensis]

34. The other day a woman I know here in

rural Georgia was on the radio when I heard that hoary old mantra, "Well, I'm not feminist, but--" This in 2016 from a very strong, competent businessowner, but she is conservative by nature and environment and definitely part of the local culture, obligatory ladylike hedging included.

To give them credit, it's actually been a while since I've heard that one, bless their hearts. I was in my teens in the '60s, so I've literally never said it in my life.

[politicaljunkie41910]

23. Agreed. Sadly but they think they know everything at age 20. Which is why I was upset

when Madeleine Albright (former Secretary of State) make her comment jokingly about there being a special place in hell for women who don't support other women, she received a harsh rebuke from millennium women. I know plenty of women who put off childbirth for their careers and have come to regret it. I can't tell you the number of women who have gone through fertility treatment trying to get pregnant in their 30s at an obscene cost because when they finally made the decision they were ready for one, they had trouble conceiving, my daughter included. She and many of her peers have experienced the same thing. Personally, I think it's just the stress from the job and their inability to conceive at-will that's exacerbating the problem. All of my daughter's peers who have no children yet are being told to freeze their eggs now. I personally believe that the fertility industry has become another racket to separate women from their money, but try telling your adult daughter that maybe if she just relaxed and don't think about it so much the results might be different next month.

[peggysue2]

9. Age Brings Wisdom

Which is why so many 20-somethngs think the world is going to play to their tune. That optimism, the idealism are part of being young and energized. We should all be able to feel that, a least for awhile. But then the real world settles in, particularly for women who find themselves stretched in all directions and the career part not working out the way they'd imagined. You get to a point in time and for many of us, we slam into an impenetrable wall. Something you do not expect at the start when everyone is fresh-faced and bushy-tailed eager. It's only then you look back at your former self and realize how naive you were.

I applaud Kliff for admitting her mistake. Because most people don't. Or won't.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

22. Unrelated but 538 do great mea culpas

It's part of their methodology

[obamanut2012]

10. This is excellent, Pri -- thanks

Starry Messenger and I have chatted about this very thing: why so many young women, regardless of field (including actresses), will declare, "I'm not feminist, I like all people! There isn't any real discrimination or pay gap!" and things like that. And why? Because of what this article says: fast forward to 28... or 33... or 38... or 45... or 55.... and things are so very different.

Again, thanks for posting.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

20. ..,

[justiceischeap]

11. I had a younger girlfriend once

I was early 30's and she was early 20's. We were having brunch one morning and she told me she wanted to spend the rest of her life with me. I remember chuckling (bad move, I know). However, I told her that her life and outlook is going to change so much by the time she hits 30 that she wouldn't believe it.

We broke up a few months later 'cause the relationship required some work--I.e., we left the honeymoon phase and she realized that it wasn't as much fun.

She's now in a completely different career, dating men and her life couldn't be any more different than it was when we had that conversation.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

19. Lol I've been that young gf many times

[tammywammy]

27. I have a lot of cousins that married in their early 20s

Only one has divorced, but I think of me at 22 and then now at 35. There is a lot the same, but a lot of important parts have changed. Just one thing, I'm in a completely different career than I thought I would be at early 20s.

[lumberjack_jeff]

12. No one rules due to their sex.

Sara is finding it difficult to find childcare? I'm sure her husband is finding the need to pick up the financial slack to be difficult as well.

Life isn't easy for young mothers or young fathers.

The choice to have children has unavoidable career ramifications for moms and dads.

That which is sexism here is usually referred to in the real world as parenthood.

[uponit7771]

15. Less dads than moms no doubt and women earn less than men right out of college (link) in 2016

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/apr/21/gender-wage-gap-college-graduates-women-men

[bettyellen]

16. Men -have ruled for centuries here on planet earth. The fact that you personally do not rule....

Or -God forbid- have had to pick up kids from school or pay for it, in no way negates that fact.

[obamanut2012]

24. lololololol

[uponit7771]

14. Its not even 5 - 10 years into a career its.... RIGHT OUT OF COLLEGE.... !! (link inside)

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/apr/21/gender-wage-gap-college-graduates-women-men

[rock]

17. Agreed

It would have been an ignorant position to have then and now.

[realmirage]

26. I wonder how old she was when she wrote that article

Our youth oriented culture tends to promote young voices with zero experience over older people who actually know shit.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

28. 23, I think

[realmirage]

32. That makes sense

[Scootaloo]

29. Having experience and knowing shit are different things.

Experience needs to be applied - there's absolutely no shortage of 50+ year old people who couldn't find their way out of a paper bag.

[realmirage]

33. Agreed. I mean in general.

If you just look at music as an example, no one cares what old people have to say in music. Makes you wonder if Davinci were an artist today if his work would be written off as just the work of some old guy and not some exciting young up and comer

[JI7]

30. i wonder if she thought she was the first generation of females do well in in school

there is an assumption that the problem was women did not get the same level of education or just didn't go to school at all. and this is why you don't see them in higher positions when it comes to the work place. they think things will be different with them since more girls were in their school and more girls were taking those difficult classes and they think this will be seen in the work place when they get there.

but then you get out there and are hit with reality.

many of the well known examples we have in history of women facing discrimination are usually of women who HAVE achieved success yet still are held back , not given credit etc.

[eridani]

31. Geez--you'd think that an article dated 2003 would mention the Iraq war

And how wonderful it was for the women of the ME. Too bad it was about trivial fluff instead.

[Lisa D]

35. K&R!