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Tue Jul 19, 2016, 05:13 AM

The hypocrisy of MSBNC re: the Melania Trump plagiarism.

First, let me say that plagiarism is wrong and, even though a speechwriter was likely involved, both Melania and Donald Trump were remiss. This post does not overlook or dismiss any of that. However, maybe twenty or more threads on those topics have already been started here since last night. And the fact that they were wrong does not make MSNBC right. So, I am taking a different approach than most other OPs about the plagiarism have taken.

We heard from MSNBC a lot of consternation about the plagiarism. O'Donnell refused to let Melania off the hook, even if a speechwriter wrote the speech, saying something like, "There is responsibility for the spoken word." I agree with that. Chris Matthews, who, once again, seems to have found his inner Republican, however, disagreed, saying Trump did nothing wrong; Melania did nothing wrong. One person and one person alone was responsible and that person not only should be fired, but should never work again.

After Matthews said that, O'Donnell dropped his claim that Melania was also responsible for speaking the words. I think there is responsibility in both Melania and Donald Trump. At the same time, plagiarism, which is likely also copyright violation, is not all that different from bigotry or from making up stuff and trying to pass it off in print or on air as real.

On the same panel as O'Donnell, Maddow and Matthews sat Brian Williams. We all remember why Williams is currently "earning" his contracted for ten million dollars a year at MSBNC these days, rather than as NBC's nightly news anchor, for which that ten mil is more commensurate.

Then, there is Mike Barnicle:

Boston Globe controversy

In 1998, Barnicle resigned from The Boston Globe amid a controversy over two columns, written three years apart. The first column of more than 80 lines of humorous observations had a few lines that bore similarity to jokes in the 1997 book Brain Droppings by George Carlin.[7] In a subsequent Globe review of all of Barnicle's many years of work, a second column was called into question. The October 8, 1995 column recounted the story of two sets of parents with cancer-stricken children. When one of the children died, the parents of the other child, who had begun to recover, sent the dead child's parents a check for $10,000. When the Globe could not locate the people who had not been publicly identified, Barnicle insisted nonetheless that the story was true. He said he did not obtain the story from the parents but from a nurse, whom he declined to identify. Mrs. Patricia Shairs later contacted the Globe to indicate that the story Barnicle wrote was about her family, although she said some of the facts were incorrect.[8]
1998–present

Six months after his resignation from the Globe, the New York Daily News recruited Barnicle to write for them, and later the Boston Herald .[9] Barnicle told reporters that he had nothing but "fond feelings for 25 years at the Globe".[9] Barnicle hosted a radio show three times a week called Barnicle's View.[10]

Barnicle has since become a staple on MSNBC,[11] including on Morning Joe as well as on specials on breaking news topics and the upcoming presidential election of 2016.
Barnicle has interviewed all the candidates in the current run for the White House and many of those interviews and his commentary on the election cycle can be found at MikeBarnicleon2016.com.[12]

Barnicle is a devoted baseball fan and was interviewed in Ken Burns's film Baseball in The Tenth Inning movie, where he mostly commented on the 2003–2004 Boston Red Sox.[13] He has also been featured in TV documentaries and programs, including Fabulous Fenway: America's Legendary Ballpark (2000); City of Champions: The Best of Boston Sports (2005); ESPN 25: Who's #1 (2005); Reverse of the Curse of the Bambino (2004); The Curse of the Bambino (2003); ESPN Sports Century (2000); Baseball (1994); and in the TV series Prime 9 (2010–2011) for MLB Network.[14]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Barnicle

And, some of us remember when MSNBC treated Pat Buchanan like the pope of politics, trotting him out, program after program, on both MSNBC and NBC, with little to zero push back at anything Buchanan said coming from program anchors or hosts. To the contrary, Buchanan was treated as THE expert among experts. Despite many protests from viewers about Buchanan's racism and xenophobia, MSNBC did not get rid of him until after release of Buchanan's second openly xenophobic book. (Sad to say, PBS has long broadcast the McLaughlin Group, where Buchanan [strike]pontificates[/strike] [strike]bloviates[/strike] comments about politics.)

So, Mr. Matthews, maybe you are correct. Maybe the speechwriter responsible for Melania Trump's speech should never work again. However, if you believe that, perhaps you should be railing at the head of NBC News, your very own boss, too. Somehow, I don't think you ever did that, though. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8025535




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Reply The hypocrisy of MSBNC re: the Melania Trump plagiarism. (Original post)
merrily Jul 2016 OP
joshcryer Jul 2016 #1
merrily Jul 2016 #5
joshcryer Jul 2016 #7
merrily Jul 2016 #9
joshcryer Jul 2016 #34
Sheepshank Jul 2016 #42
merrily Jul 2016 #58
Sheepshank Jul 2016 #62
scscholar Jul 2016 #29
joshcryer Jul 2016 #35
Demsrule86 Jul 2016 #2
glennward Jul 2016 #3
merrily Jul 2016 #6
joshcryer Jul 2016 #8
merrily Jul 2016 #10
kcr Jul 2016 #28
joshcryer Jul 2016 #36
vegetarian x Jul 2016 #21
SticksnStones Jul 2016 #4
merrily Jul 2016 #12
SticksnStones Jul 2016 #16
bemildred Jul 2016 #11
Demsrule86 Jul 2016 #26
bemildred Jul 2016 #32
Sheepshank Jul 2016 #43
bemildred Jul 2016 #44
Sheepshank Jul 2016 #46
bemildred Jul 2016 #47
Sheepshank Jul 2016 #48
bemildred Jul 2016 #50
Demsrule86 Jul 2016 #63
bemildred Jul 2016 #65
joshcryer Jul 2016 #37
bemildred Jul 2016 #41
Squinch Jul 2016 #52
greymattermom Jul 2016 #13
merrily Jul 2016 #14
geek tragedy Jul 2016 #15
merrily Jul 2016 #18
geek tragedy Jul 2016 #19
merrily Jul 2016 #20
geek tragedy Jul 2016 #23
merrily Jul 2016 #24
geek tragedy Jul 2016 #25
merrily Jul 2016 #30
joshcryer Jul 2016 #38
merrily Jul 2016 #61
Demsrule86 Jul 2016 #27
merrily Jul 2016 #31
Demsrule86 Jul 2016 #64
oberliner Jul 2016 #17
merrily Jul 2016 #22
cosmicone Jul 2016 #33
joshcryer Jul 2016 #39
rbrnmw Jul 2016 #40
merrily Jul 2016 #60
CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #45
merrily Jul 2016 #57
TexasBushwhacker Jul 2016 #49
CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #51
TexasBushwhacker Jul 2016 #53
CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #55
merrily Jul 2016 #59
tirebiter Jul 2016 #54
CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #56

Response to merrily (Original post)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 05:56 AM

1. Joe Biden was caught plagiarizing (a very long time ago) and Trump used it to attack him.

Republican frontrunner Donald Trump said he would "do great" in a hypothetical matchup with Vice President Joe Biden in part because of the prospective candidate's plagiarism in law school.

"I think I'd matchup great. I'm a job producer. I've had a great record, I haven't been involved in plagiarism. I think I would match up very well against him," Trump told conservative talk show host Hugh Hewitt on Wednesday night.

Biden admitted to plagiarizing while in law school as well as lifting from writings by British politician Neil Kinnock while on the campaign trail -- and it became an issue that haunted his failed 1988 presidential bid.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/politics/donald-trump-joe-biden-plagiarism/


Nobody's perfect and I actually am willing to take Melania at her word, and that she just mixed her notes (copy pasted speeches to go by) and her own writing. It can happen.

We'll see how they spin it, however. Still looks bad on Trump's campaign because even if she did write it herself, and mess up and put in some other persons speech, it should've been vetted and looked over by the campaign. It shows utter incompetence on the campaign's behalf.

They deserve everything that's coming tomorrow.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 08:09 AM

5. I didn't know Melania had issued a statement on this?

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Response to merrily (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 08:14 AM

7. I am anticipating as well.

Lady in such trouble for the blatant plagraism. She's gotta spin it somehow. I feel for her.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 08:18 AM

9. So, Melania has said nothing yet and the following was just you anticipating what she would say:

Nobody's perfect and I actually am willing to take Melania at her word, and that she just mixed her notes (copy pasted speeches to go by) and her own writing
.

I'm glad you clarified.

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Response to merrily (Reply #9)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 04:40 PM

34. The campaign has doubled down.

And Melania has not addressed her plagiarism.

Glad we're on the same page here.

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Response to merrily (Reply #9)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 06:25 PM

42. Melania spoke to Matt Laurer prior to giving her speech and said that she had written it.

 

http://www.today.com/news/melania-trump-convention-speech-i-wrote-it-little-help-possible-t100942

I do not believe she has directly addressed the plagiarism yet. Trump's staff have had a whole lot of conflicting things to say however.

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #42)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 01:34 AM

58. Please see Reply 59.

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Response to merrily (Reply #58)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 09:52 AM

62. I was replying to your statement that Melania has said nothing (post #9)

 

she certainly had said something.

if you changed your mind about what you said in post #9 by the time you made post #59, good for you.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:19 PM

29. The attack on him was shown to have been plagerized...

 

and a fake. Why keep bringing up fake scandals? We get it. You don't like Biden.

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Response to scscholar (Reply #29)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 04:41 PM

35. Huh? Biden admitted his faults.

It cost him his '88 campaign. We move on. It's how it works. Apparently Melania cannot admit her faults and Trump's campaign has doubled down, saying it was nothing. It's a joke.

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Response to merrily (Original post)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 07:21 AM

2. Honestly I don't care.

I don't like Bryan but his situation has nothing to do with This. The speech needed to be called out and I commend MSNBC for doing so.

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Response to merrily (Original post)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 07:26 AM

3. You can bet one thing, the frenzy would be different if Hillary or Bill did this. nt

 

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Response to glennward (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 08:11 AM

6. ? There has been A LOT of frenzy about the plagiarism on MSNBC, both last night and this morning.

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Response to merrily (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 08:16 AM

8. Lawl

If Michelle did this there would be virtual lynchings. I'm not even exaggerating.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #8)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 08:22 AM

10. The MSNBC panel talked about it non stop last night and the Morning Joe panel is doing the same.

Morning Joe has also shown over and over the side by side comparisons of the two speeches. I don't see how they could possibly make a bigger deal of it. I have not even heard anyone say it was only X minutes out of a Y minute speech. The only other thing Morning Joe has talked about has been the "trampling" of the Free the Delegates, etc. movements and they have not spent much time on that. It's all been about Melania's plagiarism, not even her entire speech, just the plagiarism.

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Response to merrily (Reply #10)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:15 PM

28. Not even her entire speech?

The monsters.

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Response to merrily (Reply #10)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 04:43 PM

36. Take a step back.

If this was done by a Democrat we'd be hearing about it here and on the JPR hate site for weeks if not months.

Plagiarism ends careers in the US. It does. The list of popular people who were ruined by plagiarism allegations is so long and unrelenting it's not even funny. This will not go away.

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Response to merrily (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:01 PM

21. Keith Olbermann might have a few choice words. + Tim Russert, R.I.P.

Wanted to be more concise. Thanks for asking.

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Response to merrily (Original post)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 07:32 AM

4. There's something very off about Trump

Personally I don't care how or who delivers that message, but he cannot become president.

There's a higher bar set if you want to be president than if you want to be a pundit.

There's something very disturbingly off about Trump. It's not just his political beliefs, there's something mentally unhinged and out of touch with reality about the guy. It's like he's spent so much time inhaling the stale air from the bubble in which he lives that it's caused some kind of brain damage.

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Response to SticksnStones (Reply #4)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 10:29 AM

12. I am not compariing pundits with Presidential candidates.

The comparison is between Melania's speechwriter, whom Matthews said should never get work again, with the behavior of Matthews' employer, the NBC network and more specifically, the NBC News department, under whose aegis MSNBC operates.

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Response to merrily (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 11:13 AM

16. Fair enough then

Let me say more specifically there is a higher bar set for a speech made by a potential first lady at a National Convention in front of a world wide audience than there is for a Boston sports writer's column. And to be sure, Barnacle tooks his lumps and admitted the plagiarism and lives with the consequence of that in his wiki page forever.

The reason this is such a big deal and does need to be discussed is not so much the 60 or so words that were plagerized but rather it very clearly illustrates how ill prepared Team Trump is to handle the White House. Either Trump himself or someone on his team thought it was a perfectly fine thing to do.

Matthews comment was spoken in the larger context of discussing just how the Trump camp should move through the story. And I say the meat of the story is not the plagiarism per se but the inability to handle the fallout.

Thank goddess the media are FINALLY beating to death just how unqualified Trump is to handle any unplanned challenge! It's finally being discussed not in terms of a novelty but rather a liability.

I don't understand the value in calling out MSNBC for making hay with the story. That's the business they're in.

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Response to merrily (Original post)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 09:04 AM

11. It is actually pretty tricky to avoid copying someone else.

Especially is one is not too imaginative oneself.

And high-minded political speech is not that imaginative to start with.

I copy all kinds people's words into my own posts right here every day.

Which makes the plagiarism issue handy for political witch hunts.

But I think we can do much better than that with Trump.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #11)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:14 PM

26. why?

This is fine...you seize your opportuities.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #26)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 03:14 PM

32. It won't move the political needle a bit is why.

It will convince nobody to change their vote.

And in the meantime Trump continues to enjoy all this free media coverage that everybody else has to pay for.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #32)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 06:30 PM

43. completely agree that this one item will not move the needle

 

but you are clearly avoiding the fact that the continued and numerous burden of a full complement of ill will and bad playing will eventually build into an aggregate that may move the needle. Society must recognize and log in every issue as they arise, in the hopes that when the next issue comes up...and it will...that maybe *that* will be the straw that finally breaks the camel's back.

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #43)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 06:37 PM

44. Something which may, in the future, move the needle hardly seems like a fact.

On the other hand the ubiquitous free coverage which so many see and complain of does seem like a fact.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #44)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 06:47 PM

46. so ignore any and all negative single events because by themselves they don't move the needle?

 

hardly.

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #46)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 06:48 PM

47. No ignore ones that won't do any good. Take the high road. nt

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Response to bemildred (Reply #47)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 06:52 PM

48. so you "know" this won't do any good? really, you "know"?

 

again, I think in the aggregate, many events converge to make a pattern of behavior, a consistent play on falsehoods etc. This one issue of plagiarism and it's various forms of covering up and excused actions have proven to be a good item to add to the cookie jar.

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #48)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 06:52 PM

50. Have a nice day. nt

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Response to bemildred (Reply #32)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 10:28 AM

63. I disagree

Anytime Trump is on defense blathering his stupidity ...it is a good thing for our side. So what exactly are we supposed to do to win? Let's see move left, move right, don't be 'shrill', get tough on immigration, be more caring about immigration, love the Green (vomit),and of course, the VP is crucial...the wrong choice and OMG the election is over...many will never be happy with anything that Hillary Clinton and/or the campaign does. I take it as it comes and hope for the best.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #63)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 10:31 AM

65. He has been up there blathering for quite a while now, and it has not been good for our side. nt

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Response to bemildred (Reply #11)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 04:45 PM

37. I'd agree, if there was a speechwriter in common.

I could see a speechwriter reusing verbiage they've used before.

But nah, this is totally off base. She literally quoted an entire paragraph.

It was stolen, plain and simple.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #37)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 06:09 PM

41. You think it's not tricky to avoid copying someone when writing a speech full of political cliches?

In academia they have software to do the searches and it is still prone to err.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #11)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 07:00 PM

52. Um... no. It's actually quite simple to avoid copying others. You do it by not copying others.

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Response to merrily (Original post)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 10:33 AM

13. I saw a statement that said the words were personal to her

So what does that mean? The only words that are personal to me are "I" and "me". I'm sure those words were in the speech.

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Response to greymattermom (Reply #13)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 10:46 AM

14. It may mean that a campaign spokesperson was throwing Melania under the bus.

Not a wise move if you are inside Trump campaign.

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Response to merrily (Reply #14)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 11:09 AM

15. party activists will throw themselves under the bus

 

to protect their party's nominee.

Unless it's Trump--no one's going to take the fall and hurt their own career on behalf of Trump, because he's not one of them and because you know he won't have their back.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #15)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 01:55 PM

18. I'm not getting how your post relates to someone in Trump's campaign possibly throwing

Melania under the bus?

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Response to merrily (Reply #18)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 01:56 PM

19. the point is that they are covering their own asses and putting blame on Trump and even

 

his wife, because there is absolutely zero loyalty either way

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #19)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:01 PM

20. Thanks. People working for a campaign usually want to keep

their jobs, I think. Throwing the wife of the candidate under the bus seems risky in that respect.

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Response to merrily (Reply #20)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:04 PM

23. They usually want their candidate to win, above all other things.

 

And there's generally the understanding that if someone falls on a grenade to protect the candidate and the candidate's family, down the line they'll repay the favor to that person.

That mutuality of trust and loyalty simply doesn't exist between Trump and anyone other than maybe his kids.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #23)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:07 PM

24. A Duer suggested this could have been intentional sabotage.

MSNBC has been going on about plagiarism all day, so far.

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Response to merrily (Reply #24)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:08 PM

25. the plagiarism was so obvious it was almost like they wanted to get caught

 

and they also Rickrolled.

If someone is trying to sabotage them from within, hats off to them.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #25)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:24 PM

30. Weeeellll, she said a few words similar to a few words in Astley's one hit.

That is not rickrolling, though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rickrolling

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Response to merrily (Reply #30)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 04:47 PM

38. Not rickrolling?

Are you serious? She literally quoted the song...

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #38)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 01:46 AM

61. Please look at the link I provided in the post to which you are replying. Thanks.

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Response to merrily (Reply #24)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:15 PM

27. Glad to hear it. nt

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #27)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:25 PM

31. It's a possibility, not a certainty.

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Response to merrily (Reply #31)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 10:29 AM

64. I mean that that the story is being covered. NT

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Response to merrily (Original post)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 11:17 AM

17. There is no hypocrisy there at all

 

They are saying whoever was responsible for the Melania speech should be fired and never work again because they took a potentially historic moment and turned it into an embarrassing one, by plagiarizing the speech of the First Lady from the opposing party.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #17)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:03 PM

22. I think a major network news anchor making up stuff is just as embarrassing as plagiarism. Same for

bigotry and Barnicle's stuff.

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Response to merrily (Original post)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 04:11 PM

33. Did you accidentally post this on DU instead of the other "progressive" site

 

where "poor poor Melania" and "how great Trump is" have been favorite topics?

Too many tabs open maybe?

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Response to cosmicone (Reply #33)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 04:48 PM

39. Probably.

But probably doesn't post under their DU name there.

FWIW, I call it a hate site, I'd suggest you'd do the same. As that is 100% what that site is. They literally have posts saying that the Republican Party is going to be the new Democratic Party and that there's an ideological shift happening. It belies belief.

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Response to cosmicone (Reply #33)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 04:48 PM

40. Ding ding ding

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Response to cosmicone (Reply #33)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 01:37 AM

60. Please read the OP past the title.

Last edited Wed Jul 20, 2016, 02:09 AM - Edit history (1)

Replying about the actual subject matter of the Op rather than what you imagine to be my Windows practices might be nice as well.

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Response to merrily (Original post)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 06:42 PM

45. The problem with your theory is that Melania is totally responsible for this fiasco

No one got fired by the Trump campaign. That tells me that it was Melania, not a speechwriter who plagiarized Michelle's lines. It would be so easy to fire the guilty speechwriter, if he/she is actually guilty of the "crime". That means suspicion moves to only one person, and Trump isn't going to fire his wife in the middle of a campaign - at least I don't think so.

Melania said she wrote the speech; I doubt that she wrote the entire speech, but instead contributed to it. And she evidently knows how to use google.

The true message behind this fiasco is that Melania was giving that speech to vouch for Trump as only a wife can, or would want to in Trump's case. If she herself is not honest....

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Response to CajunBlazer (Reply #45)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 01:32 AM

57. ? The Op says Trump and Melania are responsible, whether or not a speechwriter was involved.

Please see also Reply 59.

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Response to merrily (Original post)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 06:52 PM

49. Either she plagiarized or she LIED

She told Matt Lauer, and the American public that she wrote it with very little help. Personally I think she was screwed by a pissed off speechwriter, but NO ONE made her say that SHE wrote it.

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #49)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 06:54 PM

51. Nope, it wasn't a speechwriter

See my post above. But you were moving in the right direction until you took a little detour

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Response to CajunBlazer (Reply #51)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 07:01 PM

53. So you think saying that she wrote with very little help

was not a lie? I'm not saying she lied AND plagiarized. She did one or the other.

And now it's out that the first draft, sans Michelle's lines, was wriiten by a speechwriter. But I honestly don't think she's even smart enough to crib from FLOTUS. Maybe one of the older kids isn't fond of their stepmom.

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #53)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 07:15 PM

55. Wrong, she lied and plagiarized

It doesn't have to be one or the other. She did not write the speech by herself and she added the plagiarized sections. If the plagiarized section was written by a speechwriter, he are she would have been fired. That would have been would have been the easiest way out for Trump and the campaign - blame the speechwriter and fire him/her. But it didn't happen. Why?

That's and easy one. Melania herself must be responsible. Why not blame the speechwriter anyway? Simple, it would destroy his or her career so a speechwriter is not going to dive under the bus and ruin his/her career to save Donald and Melania some embarrassment. Fire the innocent speechwriter and he/she is talking to the press unless Trump's millions can buy him/her off, and even that is problematic.

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #49)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 01:36 AM

59. With a little help. However, my OP says the buck stops with her and Trump, no matter what.

But, as the OP also says, this thread is not about the plagiarism per se.

When I started this thread, there were already 20 to 30 threads going about that.

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Response to merrily (Original post)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 07:06 PM

54. The indicaters of doubling down

were that Mel who supposedly wrote the speech said she only read it once and Team Trump said a a team of writers wrote the speech in hopes of confusing and obfuscating. That's how Trump works.

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Response to tirebiter (Reply #54)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 08:27 PM

56. Oh, BS!

Black helicopters are hovering over the Repug convention

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