2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe Left’s Beef With Tim Kaine: Bernie’s supporters see a rebuke in Clinton's ‘safe’ VP pick
(Article)
Everyone assumes Senator Tim Kaine is Hillary Clinton’s “safe” pick for vice president. He’s geographically safe: hailing from the swing state of Virginia, where a Democratic governor can name his replacement. He’s demographically safe: a white male Catholic who speaks fluent Spanish. His résumé is safe, checking the senator, governor and mayor boxes. Even his personality is safe. “I am boring,” Kaine assured America on NBC’s Meet the Press last Sunday.
But ask anyone from the Bernie Sanders wing of the party about TKaine, and suddenly he doesn’t feel very safe at all. “An establishment Wall Street Democrat like Tim Kaine … will do nothing but confirm to progressives she's learned nothing from this primary,” Jordan Chariton told Politico Magazine, who reports for the Bernie-friendly online talk show The Young Turks.
As many as 22 million potential voters in November are thought to be Sanders-leaning Democrats, and they’re looking for evidence that Clinton is paying some heed to the surprisingly strong insurgency of the socialist from Vermont. Bernie’s success was a clear anti-establishment uprising, strong enough that his supporters expect their agenda will now help shape the future of the party. But choosing Kaine may send them the opposite message: This is her party now, and you aren’t the ones calling the shots.
“Tim Kaine would be a perfect addition to the ticket,” said People for Bernie co-founder Charles Lenchner when asked by Politico Magazine how he would interpret such a pick “in that he would add no progressive backbone that might inconvenience Team Hillary when it's time to govern.”
Read more:
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/hillary-clinton-2016-vp-pick-tim-kaine-213997
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RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and/or against Trump, and by November that number will probably rise even farther.
It's a shame some are unhappy, and sure most understand that well enough--I'd prefer a strong change signal myself, but Kaine is a moderate progressive who both believes strongly in using government to effect that change and will hopefully appeal to moderate conservatives, both in and out of the party. This is the real world. We have to win.
Andy823
(11,521 posts)And all the BS being spewed here on DU by people who "claim" they are, or where, supporting Bernie is just the same people who bashed and trashed her during the primary and now are doing the same things here, but trying to make it look like they are "concerned" about her being able to win if she does not follow their advice.
Most of the "concerned" posters here are never going to vote for her no matter what she does. Their only goal is to come here, stir things up and cause problems. They left for awhile, but now are coming back to post more dribble, and to rec up those kinds of threads, and as they did before, try and take control of as many juries as they can to keep their dribble at the top of the page on the boards. For them it's all about their hate for Hillary, as they showed us during the primaries.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)tactic and sees it being tried here. I actually expect many will end up voting against Trump, but admitting that would spoil the attempted manipulations of those playing this game.
As for nice-guy Kaine, lol, his choice might be for the resentful fringe more than they know. Lawence O'Donnell last night quoted someone who said the race was going to be ultimately not-Trump and the "last thing she wants" is a VP choice who would distract from Trump's self-immolation by becoming another pet hate for some of the voters.
So, to those prone to taking hates on both left and right, this one IS for you. 
At least in part.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)...
Their only goal is to come here, stir things up and cause problems.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)lillypaddle
(9,605 posts)They are the same as stalkers. Go the fuck away!
kerry-is-my-prez
(8,971 posts)supporters I know are going to vote Clinton and are not going to use some lame excuse like her VP pick. Those "Sanders Supporters" who are going to vote for Trump or another candidate are a small percentage. I work with a lot of Bernie fans and all of them didn't even think twice about switching over to Hillary. I think it's very insulting to act like they are in a cult or something.
TeacherB87
(249 posts)But you're right, if we're going to paint with a broad brush, his supporters quickly switched to Clinton and there is no actual issue here.
tecelote
(5,141 posts)Bernie and Bernie supporters now support Hillary.
But, a lot of people here have to twist the knife so no Bernie supporter feels good about it.
It's time this stopped and we all work together.
glennward
(989 posts)Response to John Poet (Original post)
NurseJackie This message was self-deleted by its author.
bluedye33139
(1,474 posts)It would be ridiculous for Hillary Clinton to cater to the so-called Sanders-leaning Democrats. Unless they've been lying, they absolutely hate her and I cannot imagine anything she does being good enough for them.
Response to bluedye33139 (Reply #4)
Post removed
bluedye33139
(1,474 posts)Hey, thanks for the personal interest! Yes, I do tend to agree with my own opinions, I imagine. If this is contrary to community standards, please explain to me how that is.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,207 posts)But don't try to speak for me, or other Sanders-primary supporters.
It never works out well.
bluedye33139
(1,474 posts)Thanks for the clarification
John Poet
(2,510 posts)although perhaps in the heat of the primary, more of us did.
obamanut2012
(27,716 posts)uponit7771
(91,355 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)they just like Bernie better. They are us.
It's a fraction of the rest who have a serious problem with her, and, as you suggest, their malice just has to be their problem to resolve or wallow in.
bluedye33139
(1,474 posts)I also suspect that my opinion here is partly the product of my character. I learned early in life that when people play the game of withholding approval, nothing you do will ever please them.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)But it opened your eyes eventually, obviously.
Sure, withhold in a petty attempt to punish us for beating them and all the rest of our crimes against humanity, of course, and to try to assert control. No wonder so many act as if the election will be lost if we don't leap to please them, and how frustrating it must be to try to get that last one over. Lol.
kerry-is-my-prez
(8,971 posts)anyone and that every single person they come across is "against THEM." They are always the victim.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)
kevink077
(448 posts)Hillary could of named Sanders as VP and they wouldn't have been happy. "Bernie is a sellout" blah blah. Hillary could do everything these People wanted and most will probably still stay home on Election Day anyway. No wonder she picked Kaine. ( who is a liberal anyway). Kaine caters to people who will actually get out and vote.
kerry-is-my-prez
(8,971 posts)percentage who aren't and a small percentage of them who are attention-seekers who like to stir up shit.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... that happens is about them, nor directed toward them, nor in response to them, nor to send a message of disapproval to them. The writer of that article seems to have a very egocentric world-view ... or maybe he just believes that all Bernie fans are that way.
I see the primary continues, even though it's over. (Sigh.)
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)So, it really is all about them.
kerry-is-my-prez
(8,971 posts)supporter who wouldn't be happy no matter who was picked.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)That does not mean I am pleased with this VP pick, by any stretch of the imagination. This article spelled out my feelings on it well, so I posted it.
The VP pick was an opportunity for Hillary to solidify support from the left, and that would have made me more comfortable supporting the ticket... but I guess they had other priorities.
Some people around here seem to think that we aren't allowed to voice any disappointment over this pick, but luckily the admins disagree.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Is that the purpose of the VP pick? Is the VP pick supposed to be a consolation prize for the wing of the party that didn't win the primary? (Personally, I believe that expectations of that nature are very unrealistic, and perhaps a bit selfish too.)
It was up to Hillary to choose someone who she thinks is qualified to be one-heartbeat-away, AND who will make a good campaign partner AND a good governing partner. She chose someone she admires, someone who respects her in return, and someone that she can work well with.
You guys need to realize that the VP slot isn't a silver-medal. It's not a nod or token gesture to placate the liberal wing of the party. There is no Congeniality Award to be given in presidential politics.
Hillary made a solid pick. Whatever disappointment people are experiencing is solely the result of their having unrealistic expectations. People who truly feel that way need an attitude adjustment and need to look at the larger picture. It's now about winning the election.
Why should Hillary try to placate a handful of extreme-left voters at the expense of an entire roomful of moderate voters?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts) 
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)
John Poet
(2,510 posts)"This is her party now, and you aren’t the ones calling the shots."
Sounds like someone else needs an 'attitude adjustment',
but that's been the case for the past year.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)But when it comes to improving one's skills in coping and accepting reality, those who oppose Hillary and who feel personally snubbed by her VP choice are on their own. That's something they'll have to do for themselves.
It's unclear what or who this is referring to. In recent days, you guys have adopted a vague, indirect and passive-aggressive manner of writing. Frequently, an inordinate amount of effort is being made to not say what one wants to say.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Sure, grouching is to be expected from some, but grouching doesn't mean divorce, it just means grouching. Most learned that they had to play well with others when they were small and know nothing's ever all about what they want.
Squinch
(52,360 posts)all of her primary supporters, and 92% of Sanders's primary supporters. So you don't get much more solid support from the left than she already had.
The VP pick was really an opportunity for Hillary to pick up support from Independents and the center, and do it in a way that is largely ceremonial and doesn't much affect her policies.
It also gives her a crucial swing state.
And look at it this way: a big objection to him was his support for the TPP. He has agreed, as the VP candidate, to align his position to Hillary's and she has come out against it. But even if he hadn't done that, his being VP candidate actually takes him out of the ratifying process. Her picking him actually reduces congressional support for the TPP.
Another big objection to him is his coziness with the banks. Again, this takes him out of the ratification process for any laws Liz Warren comes up with to increase regulation and make the banks safer for us.
And I have said all along that there are plenty of people out there who, consciously or not, are freaked out by the idea of a woman president. Others may disagree, but I have no doubts that this is more widespread than any of us would guess. A guy who looks like the kinds of politicians they are used to, who is a backstop to that scary woman president, might reduce their freak out and make her more palatable.
He is not who I would have chosen, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that Hillary is a lot better at this politics thing than I am and her choice is actually a very good one.
uponit7771
(91,355 posts)... case it's their person or no one ...fuck em... they'll never be happy
John Poet
(2,510 posts)There are plenty of those around as well!
uponit7771
(91,355 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)marriage as being reserved only for straight couples, denied to same sex couples. He did so after having promised to veto it when he was candidate.
Any politician who had delivered similar treatment to any other minority group would be soundly rejected by this Party. The contrast is blatant.
uponit7771
(91,355 posts)... is what makes people NEVER EVER trust dissenters of Clinton because these kind of bull shit ass'd retorts can EASILY be looked up by people who have 10 seconds to confirm these bullshit ass'd memes.
I don't mind imperfect people, I'm one of them... I mind people who are stuck on stupid and never ever change at all...
That someone had the same position since they were born tells me less than someone who was born with a bad position and decided to change for the better...
THAT'S PROGRESSIVENESS !!!
http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Tim_Kaine.htm
Click here for 9 full quotes on Civil Rights OR background on Civil Rights.
Strong supporter of the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act. (Oct 2012)
Obama fought for equal pay for women. (Sep 2012)
Obama fought for fair treatment for LGBT Americans. (Sep 2012)
No discrimination against nominating gay judges. (May 2012)
GOP agenda on gay marriage is divisive social legislation. (Apr 2012)
Tried to pass laws favoring domestic partnerships. (Apr 2012)
Voted YES on reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act. (Feb 2013)
Opposes defining traditional marriage. (Oct 2012)
Endorsed as "preferred" by The Feminist Majority indicating pro-women's rights. (Aug 2012)
LoverOfLiberty
(1,438 posts)They cherry pick one of these issues from years ago, be it marriage equality, abortion, whatever, to justify why Tim Kaine is THE WORST PICK EVER.
And its intellectually dishonest. Its actually the tactic that groups like Fox use.
JudyM
(29,491 posts)
uponit7771
(91,355 posts)... person that can easily be looked up on the internet.
Again, I'm not impressed with someone who has had one position from birth and was on the right side of that...
I'm more looking for people who can change an entrenched position after looking at the facts strongly and being better for it...
That's progressiveness ...
JudyM
(29,491 posts)maintains a non-progressive stance until they later change their position as public opinion changes. Ok.
But the latter certainly doesn't qualify as more progressive.
annavictorious
(934 posts)who participated in the primaries and President Obama. None of them were pro gay marriage rights until fairly recently, including Obama, Clinton, Sanders, and Kaine.
JudyM
(29,491 posts)from a progressive position. In fact, quite the contrary. People who are *more* progressive hold progressive positions as a matter of principle, without regard to the popularity or generally held acceptability of those positions.
thucythucy
(8,724 posts)What is his position on the issue now?
I agree that the civil rights consensus on marriage equality took way too long to develop. But I'm more interested in someone's current position, than in mistakes--even egregious ones--made in the past. Is he still In support of that amendment, or has he--to use the popular word--evolved on the topic?
Of course, the folks on the other side--Mike Pence being the prime example--continue to espouse out and out bigotry, including support for "conversion therapy."
Martin Luther King was at first highly suspicious of LBJ, a white southerner who in the 1940s and into the 50s either touted a segregationist line, or at the very least was compliant and silent, and thus complicit. Rev. King and others in the movement saw that by 1964 Johnson had outgrown his past bigotry.
It's a shame that Senator Kaine has this blot on his record. I wish it wasn't so. But if he has truly evolved on the issue, and if he doesn't harbor the homophobia so blatant among the GOP, then I'm willing to accept him and move on.
None of us is perfect. I know I sure as hell aren't.
uponit7771
(91,355 posts)... a person that can easily be refuted by looking up his recent record
Click here for 9 full quotes on Civil Rights OR background on Civil Rights.
Strong supporter of the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act. (Oct 2012)
Obama fought for equal pay for women. (Sep 2012)
Obama fought for fair treatment for LGBT Americans. (Sep 2012)
No discrimination against nominating gay judges. (May 2012)
GOP agenda on gay marriage is divisive social legislation. (Apr 2012)
Tried to pass laws favoring domestic partnerships. (Apr 2012)
Voted YES on reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act. (Feb 2013)
Opposes defining traditional marriage. (Oct 2012)
Endorsed as "preferred" by The Feminist Majority indicating pro-women's rights. (Aug 2012)
csziggy
(34,189 posts)It was a voter initiative that passed by 57%. Then it passed the Virginia legislature with a veto proof majority. Kaine never signed it but it became an amendment to the Virginia state constitution anyway.
Constitutional amendment (voter referendum); marriage. Provides for a referendum at the November 2006 election on approval of a proposed constitutional amendment to define marriage. The proposed amendment provides that "only a union between one man and one woman may be a marriage valid in or recognized by this Commonwealth and its political subdivisions." The proposed amendment also prohibits the Commonwealth and its political subdivisions from creating or recognizing "a legal status for relationships of unmarried individuals that intends to approximate the design, qualities, significance, or effects of marriage." Further, the proposed amendment prohibits the Commonwealth or its political subdivisions from creating or recognizing "another union, partnership, or other legal status to which is assigned the rights, benefits, obligations, qualities, or effects of marriage." This bill is identical to HB 101.
<SNIP>
03/15/06 House: Signed by Speaker
03/16/06 Senate: Signed by President
04/10/06 House: Bill became law without Governor's signature, Chapter 828 (effective 7/1/06)
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?061+sum+SB526
Emphasis added by me.
thucythucy
(8,724 posts)Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)He, like 100's of millions, has evolved on the issue. I think he is a superb choice for Sen. Clinton. He is a genuinely good man from all accounts, and is more than prepared for the job.
Squinch
(52,360 posts)
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)The Marshall-Newman Amendment was a legislatively recommended constitutional amendment. It passed both houses of the VA legislature with veto-proof majorities two years in a row and then was approved by the citizens of Virginia by 57%. That is how the constitution of Virginia is changed, not by the signature of a Gov. or not.
csziggy
(34,189 posts)Constitutional amendment (voter referendum); marriage. Provides for a referendum at the November 2006 election on approval of a proposed constitutional amendment to define marriage. The proposed amendment provides that "only a union between one man and one woman may be a marriage valid in or recognized by this Commonwealth and its political subdivisions." The proposed amendment also prohibits the Commonwealth and its political subdivisions from creating or recognizing "a legal status for relationships of unmarried individuals that intends to approximate the design, qualities, significance, or effects of marriage." Further, the proposed amendment prohibits the Commonwealth or its political subdivisions from creating or recognizing "another union, partnership, or other legal status to which is assigned the rights, benefits, obligations, qualities, or effects of marriage." This bill is identical to HB 101.
<SNIP>
03/15/06 House: Signed by Speaker
03/16/06 Senate: Signed by President
04/10/06 House: Bill became law without Governor's signature, Chapter 828 (effective 7/1/06)
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?061+sum+SB526
Emphasis added by me.
charlyvi
(6,537 posts)The Virginia General Assembly approved the amendment to be put on the November, 2006, ballot. 57% of Virginians voted to pass it. Was he supposed to reject an amendment that 57% of the voters in his state wanted? He was Governor, not Dictator. You are making it sound as though the General Assembly sent him legislation and he approved it. Not so. Tim Kaine is pro gay rights; in fact, he was personally against the amendment
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/9/15/246786/-
"Gov. Timothy M. Kaine (D) urged Virginians to vote against a proposed constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage and civil unions, saying the ballot question puts thousands of unmarried couples at risk of losing a slew of benefits."
Demsrule86
(70,842 posts)JudyM
(29,491 posts)CobaltBlue
(1,122 posts)Her Sister
(6,444 posts)
DemonGoddess
(5,012 posts)safe, as it is smart.
Starry Messenger
(32,375 posts)As many as 22 million potential voters in November are thought to be Sanders-leaning Democrats
There were 12 million in the primary.
There are millions of potential Latino voters:
http://m.voanews.com/a/latino-voters-potentially-a-game-changer-in-the-us-presidential-elections/3357394.html
They live in states that could potentially go blue, with turn-out. I'm sure this was a crucial part of the calculus when selecting Kaine, who speaks fluent Spanish and has solid pro-immigration reform cred.
comradebillyboy
(10,417 posts)it doesn't matter how many 'Sanders leaning' voters there are. They get to pick Trump or Clinton or maybe Stein or Johnson as a protest.
Starry Messenger
(32,375 posts)Squinch
(52,360 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,375 posts)Maybe they'll all show up and vote next time.
Squinch
(52,360 posts)
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Would not no matter who she picked. Bernie supports will vote for her following Bernie's lead.
Those who won't are Hillary haters who glommed onto Sander's campaign since he was running against her.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Demsrule86
(70,842 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Just a lack of leadership in the decision, and a failure to unify the party.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)CobaltBlue
(1,122 posts)rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)I'm beginning to think the drama is the point for the campus left ideologues.
DemonGoddess
(5,012 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)And if they are unable to, then leave this site. We are here, 3 months from the election, to encourage each other as we work to elect the Democratic ticket. As you would expect on Democratic Underground!!
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)I love Elizabeth Warren too, but if we're talking about baggage, and appealing to the far-left of the party, you would think that little detail might be important to keep in mind. It sort of makes hypocrites out of many of the loudest complainers.
Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #35)
GulfCoast66 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #38)
G_j This message was self-deleted by its author.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)And I deleted my post.
I am tired of what I see as a very few people here trying to rehash the primary. But you made me realize that when I repond with snark I am doing the same thing.
Thanks and have a great weekend
G_j
(40,430 posts)that was refreshing! Seriously, I wish we could all make better attempts at communicating with, and understanding each other. Have a great weekend also.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Put away the feels and defeat Donald Trump.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)We have to get over it. Myself I had my fingers crossed she would select a VP like Senator Warren that would unite the party.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)But I have to say, he impressed me today. Maybe I was wrong about him.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)to "fucking get over it" ?
Many thanks.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Take until election day if you need it. I'm concerned about those lsing their shit in public.
We need to unite and defeat this fascist.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)of people who have had things mostly all their way this year, and simply cannot bear to read anything about the ticket that isn't effusive sycophantic praise.
You know, all those people responding to this thread who can't seem to help weaving insults into it.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Most of the folks I'm referring to will never read my post, in all likelihood.
thucythucy
(8,724 posts)or maybe even "a few Bernie supporters."
I supported Bernie in the primary, and I don't see Sec. Clinton's VP pick as a "rebuke."
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)out of a few anecdotes.
s-cubed
(1,385 posts)Before buying into the safe meme, you might look at this article.
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/7/22/1551239/-Kaine-Is-Not-Safe-Pick-Hillary-Is-Going-For-A-Rout
I was originally blah about Kaine, until I learned more of his background. Personally anti abortion, yet 100% from Planned Parenthood. He is a genuine progressive. His anti bank regulation is about the burden on credit unions and small banks, not the big banks. He hates the NRA, And the feeling is mutual. He is genuine, one of the attributes Bernie has. I am glad that HRC will have Warren, Booker, Brown, in the Senate instead of a Repub appointed replacement. Really check him out before you pan him.
He was my governor during the VA Tech shootings: he responds well in a cresis, caring about the people involved, and seeking solutions to help fix problems.
DinahMoeHum
(22,426 posts). . .Bernie and Liz will still work with the campaign by going out and explaining to those folks why they must put their butt-hurt drama-queen attitudes aside and look at the bigger picture. They will also encourage their supporters to work with such orgs like Brand New Congress to help get more progressive Democrats into office and take back the House.
If the Dems take back the Senate this year, Bernie and Liz will have more power and stronger platforms in which to espouse and enact more progressive laws. They are far more valuable at the Legislative office there than at the Executive office.
Clinton and Kaine, meanwhile, will reach out to the independents and, yes, the Republican voters who are disgruntled and disgusted with TrumpleThinSkin and his goons.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)her selection. Warren would have done that.
Demsrule86
(70,842 posts)If you go to the other site, they say over and over that nothing would make them vote for Hillary and I believe them.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)
ibegurpard
(16,815 posts)CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)work hard to unite the party. All polls showed they were wanting her to select Warren.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)Gothmog
(153,746 posts)Warren senate seat is not that safe in off year election
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)With little hard evidence to back up claims the distaste for Kaine is so wide spread.
And 22 million voters are Sanders-leaning Democrats?
Sanders didn't get that many in the primary.
So I think this is a writer taking a few anecdotes and simply creating their own preconceived narrative.
It seems to be a very small minority of Sanders supporters who are so negatively reactive when it comes to anything Clinton.
And a certain number of that small minority are probably not Democrats anyway.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts) 
okasha
(11,573 posts)have gone Elsewhere. though every now and then one of them kites in to create drama.
ibegurpard
(16,815 posts)It shows that any "concessions" she made to the issues raised during the primaries... economic inequality and increasing corporate control of our government and elections.... were completely insincere. I was hoping to be pleasantly surprised but instead I got what I figured was going to happen.
Response to John Poet (Original post)
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auntpurl
(4,311 posts)The Repub convention ended Thu, Hillary announces VP Friday, takes the attention off the Repubs for the whole weekend, then the Dem convention starts. In effect, we own the news cycle for a full week. Trump did the same thing.
Response to auntpurl (Reply #77)
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auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Everyone has the weekend to get their thoughts/feelings in order before we all need to be unified for the convention. Senator Kaine wasn't my first choice (that would be Xavier Becerra) so I'm glad it wasn't "sprung" on me at the convention. Gave me time to do a little research and get to know him a bit better.
The Bernie supporters who are true progressives will look Sen Kaine up like I have and get to know him better. The Bernie supporters who are not progressives but actually just Hillary Haters had their minds made up and will not open their minds. They are stuck in rigid political ideology. I hope, and believe, that they are in the small minority and most Bernie supporters understand not only what's at stake in this election, but how they can carry Bernie's message forward - by getting Hillary into the WH and then working their tails off at all levels of government to get progressives elected.
Response to auntpurl (Reply #80)
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auntpurl
(4,311 posts)I'm happy for her to go if that's Hillary decision.
You mention Hillary's "past behaviour" while also mentioning Senator Warren. Elizabeth Warren used to be a Republican, and yet Bernie supporters love her (or at least they did until she endorsed Hillary). But they cannot accept that Hillary has evolved on issues like gay marriage, for example.
The Democratic platform is the most liberal one we've ever put together. Hillary did a speech last night in Tampa where she mentioned a Muslim Imam working with LGBT survivors in Orlando after the tragedy there. Can you imagine anyone who isn't a true liberal putting that in a speech, especially on the SAME DAY as an attack in Munich?
True progressives are forward-looking, compassionate people who know (often because they work as activists/social workers, etc) that the most disadvantaged members of our society are the ones who would be the most hurt by a Trump presidency. They would never let their own ideology lead them to make selfish choices that will hurt others far more than themselves. They care what will happen to AAs, Latinos, Muslims, LGBT, the working poor, the poor, and women in the next 4 years. They care that all those groups, and ALL the rest of us, will be hurt for a generation by 3-4 SC picks that Trump will use to DECIMATE any social progress we've made in the past 40 years. Progressives practice love and kindness. Anyone who would try to sink Hillary's campaign just to watch it all burn is not a progressive. They are anarchists.
Response to auntpurl (Reply #90)
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auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Hillary was a Goldwater Girl as a teenager. She's been a liberal Democrat for the entirety of her career in public service.
"Echoes such sentiments"? Hillary has led the charge on paid family leave and women's rights for nearly 30 years. The Republicans are pandering - Hillary's actually done the work.
I'm glad to hear you're not voting for Trump, not least because you'd be banned from this website if you were. Are you voting for Hillary?
Response to auntpurl (Reply #98)
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auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Edited to delete last response to banned troll. THANKS MIRT!!! You do the Lord's work.
LoverOfLiberty
(1,438 posts)believe that picking the VP was the consolation prize for losing the primary.
Most, however, have moved on.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)reinforces Trump's effort to frame the issue as populist change versus establishment status quo.
There are dozens of great things you can say about Kaine (his religious missionary work where he learned Spanish, his ability to work alongside Republicans to set immigration goals, he has a son serving in the marines, etc.), but alongside those great things, you can also say that Kaine
* is an establishment figure
* supports the status quo
* accepted a lot of (LEGAL) gifts and paid-for vacations while an elected official
* is a proponent of global trade agreements
* is a proponent of deregulation of the financial sector
My point is not to criticize Kaine; instead, my point is that of all the possible VP choices, Kaine is the one who has made it easiest for Trump to frame the election in the progressive-versus-establishment terms Trump has chosen.
Kaine was not a "safe" pick; he was an inoffensive pick. The difference is that Kaine is a good man whose selection will not offend many people, but he is unsafe in that he is the choice who most completely reinforces the themes that Trump has chosen to define Clinton.
WIN BACK A DEMOCRATIC SENATE!
Arkana
(24,347 posts)Guy was OMB director under Bush, and a congressman AND a governor from Indiana.
Mister Twilight
(60 posts)But to be perfectly honest, I was hoping she'd choose Warren or Perez. No matter. The game's afoot!
Arkana
(24,347 posts)and I'm willing to bet that picking Warren wouldn't have swayed them. They'd just say that Hillary would ignore her.
Response to Arkana (Reply #85)
Post removed
JCMach1
(27,940 posts)in-general.
I don't see a VP who was praising the TPP last week as an asset to anyone's ticket.
ibegurpard
(16,815 posts)For the GOTV effort that will be required.
And it has pissed off a lot of people.
JCMach1
(27,940 posts)jalan48
(14,287 posts)It's going to be an interesting four years.
KPN
(16,038 posts)I will also give him a chance to win me over. There really isn't enough out there for me to come to a conclusion about him on economic issues, and his history on LGBT issues is confusing. Perhaps I will be surprised, which is basically how I feel as well about Hillary. On the other hand, Trump will not surprise me in the least ... I know what I'm getting with him and it isn't at all good.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)I was not happy in 08, although of course I voted for him. He won me over. He's been a great president.
I've been doing a bit of studying up about Kaine today, and I like him so far. He's basically Joe Biden 2.0, which is not a bad thing.
KPN
(16,038 posts)I'm hoping Hillary and Kaine are more aggressive in pursuing progressive economic policy than the past two D administrations. Hillary has been saying all the right things, but Kaine doesn't reasily fit what she has been saying from what I can tell and know about him to this point. Time will tell ... keeping my fingers crossed.
stonecutter357
(12,764 posts)beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)seems to be a no-brainer to me.....never put ego first when your country is at risk
everything else is just NOISE
fishwax
(29,309 posts)nominee, and this pick doesn't change anything there. I haven't talked to all the Bernie fans I know about the Kaine pick, but among those I have talked to the reaction has ranged from a pragmatic okay to moderate optimism.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)People, including myself, are totally entitled to be disappointed and frustrated that Clinton chose a pick for VP that can be interpreted as a thumb on the nose to progressives.
He may turn out to be the greatest VP pick ever....or not.
But slamming and "shunning" those who express legitimate opinions that are contrary here is not an encouraging sign of inclusiveness.
aikoaiko
(34,201 posts)okasha
(11,573 posts)who see everything that doesn't cater 100% to them as a deliberate and heinous insult. These are the folks who can't spell a one letter word and write "most people" when they mean "I."
It's a truly tiresome habit.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Over a VP pick. VP is a virtually powerless position with few Constitutional abilities.
If the President doesn't assign you projects, you sit around doing nothing. In a sense it is a pick that can be used to completely marginalize someone, and some VPs have definitely been given that treatment and felt that way.
As greenfield noted in a politico article back in May, our first Vice President," John Adams, who called it “the most insignificant office that ever the invention of man contrived.” (Then there was John Nance Garner: “Not worth a bucket of warm piss.” And Harry Truman: “About a useful as a cow’s fifth teat.”)
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Get excited or upset over THAT? If you are looking to be excited or upset I suppose you can convince yourself. But someone that determined to be upset is not someone whose opinion is worth listening to, at all. I save my occasions for being upset over things that actually matter.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)
Renew Deal
(82,832 posts)It's not Kaine
MFM008
(19,989 posts)Elizabeth Warren or Al Franken or Sherrod Brown ok?
But lets see how this plays out.
Its not going to stop me from voting HRC.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)that should be good enough for his fans? Don't they respect his opinion in this regard?
And if Liz Warren endorses the ticket too, all the better, surely?
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)Bill should know that, and he should know that Bernie is a candidate, not a wing of the Democratic party. His premise is ill-founded. The candidate chooses the VP, not the winner's opponent.
Not to mention, Berners already love the Kaine pick.