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Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 10:16 AM Jul 2016

Embrace Code Pink, Bernie or Bust, Jill Stein and any others who position Hillary-Kaine as centrists

Republicans want to paint Hillary as an out-of-the-mainstream liberal (or socialist).

Hillary could either respond "damn right" or she could respond "you're wrong, my views are mainstream American values."

Had Hillary chosen Warren as her running mate, we might conclude that Hillary had chosen the "damn right" path, but Hillary's choice of Kaine tells us that Hillary is reaching out to the center.

If you want to be perceived as a centrist, you need people who oppose you on your right (the whole Republican Party) and your left (Code Pink and Green Party, etc.). Now that Warren and Sanders are 100% behind Hillary, the Republicans would have more success labeling Hillary as "out of the mainstream" if there was no one pushing back at Hillary from her left.

This is the ideal situation: Hillary has opponents who say she's too far to the right but they are only a small 3% to 5% segment of the vote. Don't just accept this; embrace it because this is a part of the definition of "mainstream."

LBJ had a small group of opponents on his left, Carter had a small group of opponents on his left, Bill had a small group of opponents on his left, Obama had a small group of opponents on his left, and they all did just fine. We live in a democracy. We should foresee and accept that our system of government -- the best system yet invented by the human mind -- will and must encompass a broad range of opinions and competing visions for the role of our government.

We cannot claim to represent the mainstream in one breath and -- in the very next breath -- express outrage and surprise that there are some to our left whose views are outside of our mainstream vision.

Embrace the fact that Hillary has chosen a position where she sits in the center with some few on her left and many others on her right.

19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Embrace Code Pink, Bernie or Bust, Jill Stein and any others who position Hillary-Kaine as centrists (Original Post) Attorney in Texas Jul 2016 OP
No, I'm not going to embrace Bernie or Bust. DanTex Jul 2016 #1
Trump refuses to embrace the fact of global warming. What good does that do him? We can refuse to Attorney in Texas Jul 2016 #3
Bernie or Bust isn't a fact, it's a group of people. So I don't get the GW analogy. DanTex Jul 2016 #17
No lamp_shade Jul 2016 #2
gobbledygook OKNancy Jul 2016 #4
You can't occupy both the far left and also the center. Support Hillary's choice to seek the center Attorney in Texas Jul 2016 #6
Nonsense RonniePudding Jul 2016 #5
Jill Stein is a grandstanding attention-seeker, nothing more. TwilightZone Jul 2016 #7
Only in America a pro trade and deregulation is considered liberal. JRLeft Jul 2016 #9
Hillary and Tim are centrists, but B.O.B. isn't that big of a group. JRLeft Jul 2016 #8
They're a very small group. Expecting unanimity is an unrealistic goal. We should accept the support Attorney in Texas Jul 2016 #10
Still stings, huh? nt LexVegas Jul 2016 #11
I don't lump Code Pink in with those other complete fools as you have. NCTraveler Jul 2016 #12
I'm only including Code Pink because they are in Philadelphia protesting Hillary's nomination from Attorney in Texas Jul 2016 #13
Yes, Code Pink is protesting from the left and has a cause. NCTraveler Jul 2016 #14
Are you saying the Green Party does not have a cause? Attorney in Texas Jul 2016 #15
I never said the Green Party has no cause. NCTraveler Jul 2016 #16
Hillary picked the most liberal senator according to the ratings Renew Deal Jul 2016 #18
Lame rule skirting alcibiades_mystery Jul 2016 #19

Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
3. Trump refuses to embrace the fact of global warming. What good does that do him? We can refuse to
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 10:37 AM
Jul 2016

embrace the fact that Sanders brought new people into the party (which is good) and there are some few who will not support Hillary (that is to be expected - it happened in 2008, too), but -- ultimately -- 90% of Sanders' supporters WILL support Hillary (that's been reported as a higher percentage than Hillary '08 supporters who said they would be voting for Obama at this stage in '08).

Bernie or Bust exists. Just like PUMA existed in '08. Importantly, Sanders is doing everything he can to bring his supporters to Hillary (and he's had great success as indicated by the 90% support of Hillary from his supporters). We can deny the Bernie or Busters of we can acknowledge that they exist and we can work together to shrink that already small group. Then, we face the next choice of dening the existence of that shrunken group or pointing to their recalcitrant opposition as evidence that Hillary stands with the middle and not the outliers.

We live in a democracy where people of all kinds with a full spectrum of beliefs participate with us in choosing our own leadership.

I understand the frustration, but dissent on the left and on the right is a feature of democracy, not a bug in the system.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
17. Bernie or Bust isn't a fact, it's a group of people. So I don't get the GW analogy.
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 01:02 PM
Jul 2016

BoBs get to participate in our democracy, just like Trumpists do. I'm not saying that they should be disenfranchised. I'm also not saying that either group doesn't exist. They obviously do exist.

What I am saying is that I'm not going to embrace either one. I don't embrace hateful lunatics trying to make Trump our president.

Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
6. You can't occupy both the far left and also the center. Support Hillary's choice to seek the center
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 11:23 AM
Jul 2016

Part of supporting Hillary's choice to seek the center is accepting that she has pitched her tent to encompass as many as she felt comfortable including but there are some on the far left who are not in the tent.

It does no good to deny that some few on the left are outside of Hillary's embrace because it is a fact. Once we acknowledge the fact, we can either bemoan it or accept it and make use of that fact for our own purposes (use the far left as a foil to demonstrate the mainstream nature of Hillary's positions).

TwilightZone

(25,466 posts)
7. Jill Stein is a grandstanding attention-seeker, nothing more.
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 11:35 AM
Jul 2016

She deserves the mockery she receives. She certainly shouldn't be embraced by anyone who wants to win in November.

As for the "Kaine is a centrist" silliness, you clearly don't know much about him. He's a liberal.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Tim_Kaine.htm

 

JRLeft

(7,010 posts)
9. Only in America a pro trade and deregulation is considered liberal.
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 11:45 AM
Jul 2016

Everywhere it's labeled something else.

 

JRLeft

(7,010 posts)
8. Hillary and Tim are centrists, but B.O.B. isn't that big of a group.
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 11:44 AM
Jul 2016

Hillary says she's against it now, but was for deregulation and trade. Tim Kaine was pro TPP and , deregulation in Thursday.

Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
10. They're a very small group. Expecting unanimity is an unrealistic goal. We should accept the support
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 12:03 PM
Jul 2016

from the overwhelming majority of Sanders supporters and use the gift from those won't accept her (the gift is a narrative that Hillary's mainstream appeal is too moderate for the far left).

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
12. I don't lump Code Pink in with those other complete fools as you have.
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 12:04 PM
Jul 2016

Bernie or Bust, Stein, and Trump can all go embrace Johnson. Know what I mean?

Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
13. I'm only including Code Pink because they are in Philadelphia protesting Hillary's nomination from
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 12:06 PM
Jul 2016

from the left.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
14. Yes, Code Pink is protesting from the left and has a cause.
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 12:10 PM
Jul 2016

The other asshats you mention have no ideology, cause, or intelligence. They aren't even close to the same. Protesters rock. Fart-ins are too complicated for the anti-intellectual boo brigade you mention along side of Code Pink.

Left?

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
16. I never said the Green Party has no cause.
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 12:14 PM
Jul 2016

I have repeatedly stated I like their platform.

Stein is an embarrassment as the representative for the Green Party.

What does that have to do with the dumb ass Bernie or Bust crowd? Nothing.

 

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
19. Lame rule skirting
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 01:05 PM
Jul 2016


I'll give you credit for an original (if pathetic and transparent) way of declaring for someone other than the Democratic nominee.

Simultaneously clever and sad.
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