Fervent Clinton primary backers would do well to remember the PUMAs in 2008

[Tom Rinaldo]

It can be very difficult to redirect passions that are deeply felt and tied to strongly held ideals. I was a pro Clinton blogger during the 2008 primaries. While I was not impassioned in my support of Hillary then (she was my 5th choice that year, behind three potential candidates who did not run and Joe Biden - just edging out Obama) I knew a lot of folks who were. Some of them refused to accept Barack Obama as the Democratic nominee, both throughout the Democratic Convention and long after. When I threw my own support behind Obama as the inevitable nominee some of those Clinton supporters treated me virtually like a traitor, even though or perhaps because we had shared such strong common ground together in the recent past.

Some Democratic activists on forums like this felt those PUMAs betrayed the Democratic Party. A case can be made that some PUMAs betrayed the ideals of the Democratic Party by equating Obama with McCain. At the time though I know they felt they were upholding what they believed were the true ideals of the Democratic Party, by not rewarding Obama with their votes after his team ran a campaign that both deeply angered and offended them (whether they were right, wrong, or somewhere in between is not germane now to my point).

With time the ranks of PUMAs shrank though they did not completely disappear. Most of them ultimately voted for Obama with varying level of enthusiasm. And many of them are here with us now 8 years later, urging us all to vote Democratic in the Fall. I too believe that it is essential that Hillary Clinton defeat Donald Trump for the Presidency in November, although I strongly backed Bernie Sanders this time for the nomination. But I will say this; Hillary Clinton ad Barack Obama were always much closer together ideologically in 2008 than Hilary Clinton and Bernie Sanders were throughout the 2016 primaries. And still there were lingering bitter divisions between some of the most ardent supporters of Barack and Hillary after that 2008 Democratic Convention.

Intensity does not drain off easily, nor can it be easily harnessed for alternate causes through some magic political water wheel quickly inserted into raging currents of political debate. In 2008 Clinton supporters at the very least never had reason to doubt that they were valued as an intrinsic integral part of the Democratic Party - Barack Obama was the insurgent then bringing new voices into the Party. Fortunately for Obama's "army" they prevailed that year and their place in the Democratic Party was assured with his crowning. How alienated might some of them have felt had their tsunami of enthusiasm smashed up against the walls of the prior Democratic "establishment", to be dissipated instead? And what if there were evidence that the deck was intentionally stacked against them from day one? How much anger might there have been?

Neither the Democratic Party nor our nation as a whole can afford to wage the fight for essential social change without doing all that we can to listen to, honor and engage all of the voices calling for, and showing a willingness to fight for, such changes. It is not always easy to get on the same page, but that is the challenge before us now. It is far too early, and far too dangerous, to irreparably turn our backs on potential allies because of divisions that still exist today.

[jtunes]

1. it's different, when someone else does it nt

[NWCorona]

12. ...

[frazzled]

2. To my recollection

Clinton delegates did not chant or boo at speakers or at every mention of the nominee's name on the floor of the convention in 2008, though the final race had been a thousand times closer. They did not hold up signs saying Stop Him.

What was the difference? They had a leader who set the tone.

This is not at all like 2008. Slap me if I'm wrong.

I don't care what people on a website or blog say. I'm angry about duly elected delegates to a party's convention acting like yahoos on national television. It's not helping their cause. I hope they get that.

[democrattotheend]

7. The difference is that Clinton delegates were party insiders and big donors

Who had a vested interest in supporting Obama if they wanted to remain relevant.

Most of Bernie's delegates are grassroots volunteers, most of whom have never been to a convention before. They also have nothing to lose by protesting, unlike Clinton's delegates in 2008.

Maybe Bernie's campaign should have recognized that they would be harder to control, but Bernie has in no way encouraged this or "set a tone" indicating to his supporters that he wants this. He has made it pretty clear that he doesn't. I don't know what else you expect him to do at this point.

Unfortunately, I don't think many of them get (or maybe they just don't care) that they are not helping Bernie or his movement by acting like yahoos, as you put it. Many of them still think they can somehow sway the convention and nominate him.

[Blue_Tires]

27. Then someone needs to explain to those assclowns how party politics work

Because they are fucking everything up...

[lapucelle]

31. No they weren't. They were regular Democrats.

Many of us were disappointed. Many of us went PUMA as one of our stages of grief.

Then we got over it and voted for the Democrat who won the nomination because we knew that it would be better than the alternative. And we were right.

[auntpurl]

36. So do you think once they've nominated Hillary, the worst of it will die down?

Honestly asking you, as a Bernie supporter.

[democrattotheend]

40. I hope so

I talked to several people whom I believe were delegates who seemed to think there was a chance to still nominate Bernie. I am hoping that once Hillary wins in a complete roll call where everyone's votes are counted, some of the delegates may come to acceptance. That is why I think any effort to short-circuit the roll call would be a mistake.

There will still be some Bernie delegates who act up on the floor, unfortunately, but hopefully the roll call, if done properly, will quell some of it.

It's a little hard for me to project how many of them will behave because I was never like the militant ones. I supported Bernie because I like Bernie, not because I think Hillary is the devil reincarnate.

[auntpurl]

42. Understood - thanks for the insight.

I hope so too. Not because I hate Bernie or his supporters, but because this election is so damned important.

Loved your post last night BTW. Made me feel SO much better.

[tallahasseedem]

8. Precisely...

No one is saying we don't understand, what we're saying is stop acting like assholes while our speakers are trying to talk.

[Tom Rinaldo]

18. I echo post number 7 above, plus

There wasn't a huge media scandal on the wake of the 2008 Convention about ways in which staff members of the DNC conspired to hurt Hilary's campaign and help Obama's. That is a pretty significant variable influencing how emotions got running this time.

But the main point is we all should do what we can now to deescalate tensions, not further inflame them. And Hillary Clinton's campaign knows that very well. That was clear as glass by the way her surrogates stayed on point about working toward unity even when they were asked about the protests.

[frazzled]

19. Conspiracy always works when facts fail. /nt

[lapucelle]

34. Media scandal

sums it up perfectly.

[Tatiana]

3. We had long-time party members in my delegation openly threatening to vote for

McCain! And you couldn't tell them otherwise. This was their moment, and this black upstart needed to wait his turn....

I remember that. I had never seen such divisiveness in the our local party. It was shocking and this sentiment is one of the reasons, I believe, that Obama bypassed the DNC for his campaign and operated the parallel apparatus of OFA.

We have to give the honest people who favor Bernie Sanders time to come around. Most senior Democratic officials recognize this (except for DWS, which is why she is gone).

I'm so proud of what Bernie has brought to the table. We are a BETTER party, a more progressive party, and a stronger party as a result of his candidacy.

[democrattotheend]

9. Thank you for reminding people of that

While Hillary herself was classy and did a lot for Obama in 2008, there was a lot of dissention in her ranks that was undermining a message of unity at that convention too. A lot of people who support Hillary now are whitewashing that.

[Tatiana]

11. Short memories...

[Capt. Obvious]

4. Did you know that Harriet Christian passed away?

Let that be a lesson to you all.

[joeybee12]

5. Nice rewrite of history...none of them booed at the mention of Obama's name

we all got over it sooner...some of the little Nader wannabes in Philly are never gonna get over it...that said, the vast majority of sanders supporters have adjusted, but please stop trying to justify the petulant actions of these worthless few.

[Tom Rinaldo]

13. No rewrite at all

No, not all PUMAs got over it - the strong majority did and I said so. You however are confidently predicting the future about "Nader wannabes" even though the Convention roll call of delegates hasn't happened yet and the Convention hasn't closed. Many PUMA's were strongly anti-Hillary well after the 2008 Convention.

[joeybee12]

17. A Fox Noise narrative...

And they didn't boo

[Tom Rinaldo]

21. I knew some msjor PUMA bloggers

They blocked me from a pro Hillary closed strategy group after they felt I "defected" It was more than just a Fox News narrative. Yes it started fading as the election got closer - but there was still a strong cotangent of them AFTER the 2008 Convention.

[leftynyc]

6. I was a STRONG Hillary supporter in 2008

Took a lot of crap right here on DU about it. But when she suspended her campaign, I was online the very next day ordering my Obama shirts and buttons. I didn't have a hissy fit, I didn't boo then when someone said then Sen Obama's name. I behaved like a fucking grown up who knows sometimes she's not always going to get what she wants.

[Tom Rinaldo]

14. I shfted to Obama after the Orego Primary results came in

I knew it was over then. But I didn't brag about my superior adult coping skills while doing so. It would not have been helpful.

[leftynyc]

24. If you have a link to 2008

where you find me bragging about my superior adult coping skills, serve it up. Otherwise, why are you so bent out of shape when I'm just pointing out the difference between acting like an adult and acting like a spoiled brat.

[Tom Rinaldo]

33. I'll apoogize if that came off too personal

probably it did, but you made such a strong contrast between acting like a mature adult and those who act like spoiled children giving credit to yourself for the being part of the former while insulting those who you are upset with as the latter. In my opinion that is not the best way forward right now, that's all.

[leftynyc]

43. I'm bone tired

of catering to the Bernie or Busters. This has been going on since long before the California primary when it was finally math impossible for Bernie to win. If they want to be treated like adults, it's time to act like them and the behavior I saw on the floor of the convention yesterday during Rep Cummings speech was repulsive.

[democrattotheend]

25. Unfortunately, not all Clinton supporters did

Most Bernie supporters are prepared to back Clinton now, just as most Clinton supporters voted for Obama. But there was a vocal minority of Clinton supporters who loudly proclaimed that they would never vote for Obama, just as there are a vocal minority of Bernie supporters now who are getting more attention from the media than they deserve.

[leftynyc]

28. Maybe my memory is failing

but I don't remember Hillary supporters booing every time then Sen Obama's name was mentioned or, even worse, chanting and booing over anyone speaking at the convention - let alone, doing it while anyone like Elijah Cummings was speaking. Rude little twits.

[MineralMan]

10. Hmm....thinking...

Who won the 2008 election again?

[Tom Rinaldo]

15. We did. n/t

[Tatiana]

16. Cenk Uygur addressed this some months ago.

[NurseJackie]

20. Were these "PUMA" individuals also poo-flingers during the convention?

These disrupting delegates are ...

[Tom Rinaldo]

23. They worked against Obama after the Convention was over

But some of them came around over time. You can simply pound on those who protested at the Convention yesterday, or you can chose not to simply banish them and instead try to help the healing process. The Clinton team was very strong in continuing to push for party unity all day on the media and not taking the bait to blast the more extreme Sanders supporters at the Convention yesterday. I was impressed with their tact, poise, and dare I say tactical prowess in doing so.

[leftynyc]

26. That's their job

I'm post on a message board and have no obligation to suck up to people I think are behaving like spoiled brats.

[Tom Rinaldo]

38. It's their job to win, and to act in ways to increase that probablility

Those who are not concerned about who wins and who loses are free from such considerations.

[leftynyc]

45. Uh - no

I can be concerned about who wins and still speak out about these spoiled little snowflakes behaving like spoiled brats during the convention. The behavior on the floor yesterday was embarrassing to ALL Democrats.

[NurseJackie]

39. How much room (and time) do you think they deserve? Would four more days be enough?

and instead tr to help the healing process.

I forgot, these delegates are such delicate snowflakes. How could I have been so insensitive to their plight? Silly me! What MORE can we do for them? It's not as though they've had over a month to accept reality.

Maybe if they could just boo and hiss at a few more honored and respected speakers. You know ... just to let them get it out of their system.

How about if we sit back and do nothing, and just patiently wait while they chant "Mon-i-ca! Mon-i-ca!" during Bill Clinton's appearance... perhaps THEN they'd see how understanding everyone has been and eventually come around?

Maybe we could speed things up a little bit if we handed out eggs and tomatoes.

[Tom Rinaldo]

41. I will ignore your sarcasm

I like the way Team Clinton is playing this right now. Thy are hoping tensions are a lot lower by the last day of the Convention, and so do I. They are acting in ways to increase that likelihood. No one has ever accused them of not being politically astute.

[MyNameGoesHere]

22. I switched in a minute because it was the right thing to do.

no one held my hand or consoled my dashed hopes and dreams. I just did what was right and best for America. One place you'll never find me is the wailing and crying on the sidelines after a loss. Life's too short to wallow in agony and despair.

[leftynyc]

30. Careful

You're about to get a lecture about bragging about your superior adult skills as I was for saying the exact same thing.

[Blue_Tires]

29. I don't recall the PUMAs acting like a bunch of animals at the convention

but that's just me...

[Demsrule86]

44. That never happened. Hillary delegates did not boo anyone. nt

[JaneyVee]

32. LOL sorry no.

[stopbush]

35. Why does this even matter? It was 8 years ago.

If the PUMAs were wrong, so what? Does that give an excuse to the hooligans who interrupted every speech yesterday with thir pathetic chants?

Some defense - the BoBs are just as bad as the PUMAs so we need to put with them.

Here's a thought: rather than drawing false equivalencies and demanding that Hillary/the DNC spend their time trying to win over recalcitrant Sanders supporters, how about those Sanders supporters embrace their adulthood and convince themselves that they need to support Hillary. If they can't do that, then fine - move on or move away. But cut out the needy special case crap we hear every fucking day. It's old and it does nothing to get Democrats elected.

[emulatorloo]

37. i appreciate the analogy you are attempting to draw, but I feel you are insulting Bernie supporters

who are still on the fence by comparing them to the PUMAs. It is not at all a favorable comparison.