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Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 05:54 AM Jul 2016

It's one thing to ask Sanders people to support the ticket...that's fair and legitimate...

Last edited Sun Jul 31, 2016, 03:23 PM - Edit history (1)

but is it really necessary to treat the Sanders movement as if it was a total failure? As if we got nothing at all for what we did?

Hillary herself isn't being like that. Can't you follow her lead?

A handful of Sanders people were jerks in Philly. The vast majority of former Sanders supporters have condemned and repudiated the stupidity. It's not fair to act as though ALL of us are responsible for that.

And it serves no purpose to sneer at the very idea of Bernie ever having run.

You're making it hard for those of us who have been trying to reach the holdouts, and you're being personally unfair to Bernie, who has done everything you asked of him and will continue to do so. It looks as though some of you care more about humiliating the guy and destroying the mass movement he's trying to create, a movement that has to continue if any sort of change is to happen, than you do about holding on to the presidency in November.

In the name of unity and victory, please stop damaging the people who are TRYING to help.

Is that really too much to ask?

96 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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It's one thing to ask Sanders people to support the ticket...that's fair and legitimate... (Original Post) Ken Burch Jul 2016 OP
If you see this happening grubbs Jul 2016 #1
Bernie bashing is allowed slightly less than AllyCat Jul 2016 #14
Only the Bernie supporters who heckled Hillary oberliner Jul 2016 #33
I have not heckled Hillary. And yet I have been AllyCat Jul 2016 #50
Well that is unfortunate oberliner Jul 2016 #51
Or the ones that heckled bernie Tiggeroshii Jul 2016 #75
Absolutely correct. JudyM Jul 2016 #46
This is not the normal course for a primary process... MrScorpio Jul 2016 #2
That goes for everyone, including Clinton AllyCat Jul 2016 #15
Just remember, it's individuals. Amimnoch Jul 2016 #27
A lot of the radicals on both sides don't seem to be true supporters Chathamization Jul 2016 #36
I think it will eventually turn out that there was lots of RW infiltration on both sides. Ken Burch Jul 2016 #44
My local Dems and Progressives group largely supported Sanders and since the DNC, AllyCat Aug 2016 #95
I'm glad your group is like that and never meant anything against those people. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #96
Thank you for that. n/t. Ken Burch Jul 2016 #43
It'd help a lot if broad-minded folks like you would speak out against hate-filled posts. JudyM Jul 2016 #47
Thank you for that LiberalLovinLug Jul 2016 #79
This was never about just this primary or election cycle. TDale313 Jul 2016 #55
Sometimes what you see is a reaction to those who think Sanders just saved humanity from itself. randome Jul 2016 #3
I'm voting for Hillary but I'm not vocal about it. That's too bad. tecelote Jul 2016 #4
I'll agree. And will you agree that some Sanders supporters will stop acting like the got NOTHING glennward Jul 2016 #5
Yes. n/t. Ken Burch Jul 2016 #41
k&r Lunabell Jul 2016 #6
Post removed Post removed Jul 2016 #7
Some people just want to pick fights and stir shit. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #8
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2016 #9
If you are seeing widespread unity, I would love to take a walk through GD-P with you... JudyM Jul 2016 #48
I hear you. I actually was a Sanders supporter. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #52
Can you give me some examples name of threads DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #54
I dont support the protesters, either. They were rude and out of line. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #56
thank you for saying that. I actually have forgotten about it because what the Dems did DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #61
I also think the cable news media focused inordinately on the protest stuff Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #71
Some of us would like to stay in this community but the level of continued verbal aggression against JudyM Aug 2016 #90
If it maks you feel better Coolest Ranger Jul 2016 #10
Social media is a train wreck... NCTraveler Jul 2016 #23
I'm sorry you were put throught that on Facebook. n/t. Ken Burch Jul 2016 #45
There is another perspective on this BainsBane Jul 2016 #11
Well said! That "gendered subtext" looms large rjsquirrel Jul 2016 #12
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2016 #13
This message was self-deleted by its author grubbs Jul 2016 #16
Enjoy your stay ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jul 2016 #17
Man. That was fast! grubbs Jul 2016 #20
Wow. You have captured my thoughts exactly. Justice Jul 2016 #18
Well said, BainsBane. brer cat Jul 2016 #19
As usual Bainsbane,you hit the nail on the head. nt sufrommich Jul 2016 #22
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2016 #25
Post removed Post removed Jul 2016 #26
Brilliantly put, as always. n/t. Ken Burch Jul 2016 #42
Yeah, those peeps apparently dont like Atheists, either. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #57
+1 Hiraeth Jul 2016 #66
Well said. Arby Jul 2016 #28
Indeed. I am rooting for Hillary to do the right thing. Lucky Luciano Jul 2016 #32
The gender subtext... Lucky Luciano Jul 2016 #31
It's more like blindly calling her useless when you refuse to listen or read up on her.... bettyellen Jul 2016 #38
Exactly! Mellomugwump Jul 2016 #40
He was there fighting years before and was standing WITH her those YEARS ago. onecaliberal Jul 2016 #72
How so? BainsBane Jul 2016 #80
He should get credit for what he did before she got there, look at his record. onecaliberal Aug 2016 #84
I have looked at his record BainsBane Aug 2016 #88
But it wasn't single payer BainsBane Jul 2016 #73
She sent Bernie a note of thanks for healthcare support in 1993. Just adding to the discussion. floriduck Aug 2016 #86
thank you obamanut2012 Jul 2016 #62
This exactly. bettyellen Jul 2016 #68
+1000! DemonGoddess Jul 2016 #70
Beautifully said. Thanks. yardwork Jul 2016 #74
Well said!! Thank you for that response. SaveOurDemocracy Jul 2016 #78
Boom! sheshe2 Jul 2016 #82
It's interesting for me to notice that many never realized the most pervasive types of cronyism bettyellen Aug 2016 #91
Indeeed BainsBane Aug 2016 #93
I see you have put the very large roller you were painting with away. NCTraveler Jul 2016 #21
Hillary and Bernie are being very professional adults about this IronLionZion Jul 2016 #24
Bernie won too. We all won. bekkilyn Jul 2016 #29
Go!!!!!!! zonkers Jul 2016 #59
It wasn't a total failure!! It was a resounding success!! n/t renie408 Jul 2016 #30
I will always feel the bern. zonkers Jul 2016 #58
Me too democrattotheend Jul 2016 #64
Who is doing that? MineralMan Jul 2016 #34
No one. BainsBane Jul 2016 #81
Post removed Post removed Jul 2016 #35
Have not seen people sneering but am personally still bothered about the tax returns.... bettyellen Jul 2016 #37
Bernie released his 2014 tax returns democrattotheend Jul 2016 #65
No, he never released what was promised- and said they were filed.... bettyellen Jul 2016 #67
This message was self-deleted by its author John Poet Aug 2016 #89
Is what you've described actually happening here? NurseJackie Jul 2016 #39
no obamanut2012 Jul 2016 #63
I've read here and elsewhere that Clinton supporters did same in 2008. I wasn't here so don't know. George Eliot Jul 2016 #49
It's an anonymous message board, I wouldn't take anything here too seriously. n/t Lil Missy Jul 2016 #53
Since last Monday, I've seen lots of Clinton supporters expressing appreciation lapucelle Jul 2016 #60
I am grateful to all who have been conciliatory. n/t. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #94
there is definitely some divisive bullshit from a minority on both sides fishwax Jul 2016 #69
"a movement that has to continue if any sort of change is to happen" KMOD Jul 2016 #76
+1 (nt) LongtimeAZDem Jul 2016 #77
What I've seen here in the past week or so ... NanceGreggs Aug 2016 #83
I am working for victory. I'm on your side. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #85
That's the point, Ken. NanceGreggs Aug 2016 #87
+1, This whole OP meme has a very disingenuous "quit beating your wife" R B Garr Aug 2016 #92

AllyCat

(16,036 posts)
14. Bernie bashing is allowed slightly less than
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 07:54 AM
Jul 2016

Bernie supporter bashing. The latter is a board pastime.

AllyCat

(16,036 posts)
50. I have not heckled Hillary. And yet I have been
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 04:57 PM
Jul 2016

Bashed by someone...YOU might know. I have put more people on ignore since the first night of the convention than I did the whole primary.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
51. Well that is unfortunate
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 04:59 PM
Jul 2016

I think it is great to see how the Bernie and Hillary people have come together on DU for the most part.

 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
75. Or the ones that heckled bernie
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 10:10 PM
Jul 2016

At this point there are a lot of "Bernie supporters" much deserving of ridicule..

MrScorpio

(73,626 posts)
2. This is not the normal course for a primary process...
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 06:09 AM
Jul 2016

The voters have already spoken.

It's time to move on and take it to the next level.

 

Amimnoch

(4,558 posts)
27. Just remember, it's individuals.
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 08:25 AM
Jul 2016

Just like the protesters and detractors at the convention are not a representation of all Bernie supporters, those who are representative of the OP's claim are not a representation of all Hillary supporters.

Personally, I welcome all of the Bernie peop's. I embrace The ones who've fully embraced the decided direction. I embrace the ones who are doing so reluctantly and "holding their noses". I embrace the ones that are still dragging their feet some on it. I even embrace the ones that are too jaded to come over, and may not. I do feel the ones in that last category are misguided and making a mistake in doing so, but when I know their hard feelings are due to their love of humanity, and belief in the very ambitious platform Sanders had laid out, I can't help but hold respect for that. Kind of the way you'd love that brother or sister that makes bad decision, but you know their heart is good and in the right place.

Chathamization

(1,638 posts)
36. A lot of the radicals on both sides don't seem to be true supporters
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 11:04 AM
Jul 2016

More like small groups of disruptors that attach themselves to groups so they can make a mess of things. A lot of the "Clinton supporters" you now see trashing Sanders supporters were trashing Clinton in '08. A lot of "Sanders supporters" who are now saying that they've finally given up on the Democratic Party are people who've been saying they've finally given up on the Democratic Party for years.

Most people are united. A small group of disruptors are trying to cause a mess, but that's what they always do. By being loud they try to fool us into thinking they're numerous. They're not.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
44. I think it will eventually turn out that there was lots of RW infiltration on both sides.
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 03:18 PM
Jul 2016

After all, it's the RIGHT that has the most to gain by keeping us divided...as always.

AllyCat

(16,036 posts)
95. My local Dems and Progressives group largely supported Sanders and since the DNC,
Thu Aug 4, 2016, 08:47 AM
Aug 2016

have sent out emails encouraging us to vote Stein. While I disagree with their advice, NONE OF THESE PEOPLE, would EVER vote for Trump or be considered RW. These are true progressive people who want progressive policies. They see Stein as supporting their causes. I agree, that Stein probably represents my views the best. BUT I AM VOTING FOR HILLARY in November. I see how it works and we must defeat the orange man.

Please do not say many of these folks supporting Sanders were RW. They wanted more and are trying to fight for it. My job is trying to lure these people back to what we are facing in November and do the most helpful progressive thing and vote for HRC.

Getting no news about what she is doing because the media and this board (myself included) are focused on the raving lunatic, which isn't helping.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
96. I'm glad your group is like that and never meant anything against those people.
Fri Aug 5, 2016, 02:14 PM
Aug 2016

The infiltration I'm speaking of was mainly in the areas of social media, rather than among people who were and area working on the ground.

JudyM

(29,122 posts)
47. It'd help a lot if broad-minded folks like you would speak out against hate-filled posts.
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 03:55 PM
Jul 2016

It'd keep y'all very busy. The mean-spirited situation actually seems to be growing in frequency.

Thanks for one of too-few unifying posts.

TDale313

(7,820 posts)
55. This was never about just this primary or election cycle.
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 05:13 PM
Jul 2016

Many Sanders supporters will keep engaged and keep pushing for change and will keep the movement going.

We're not going away. The vast majority will support Hillary in November but that doesn't mean we're satisfied with the status quo or that we'll stop fighting.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
3. Sometimes what you see is a reaction to those who think Sanders just saved humanity from itself.
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 06:24 AM
Jul 2016

The pendulum swings both ways. It's annoying either way, to be sure.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.
[/center][/font][hr]

tecelote

(5,122 posts)
4. I'm voting for Hillary but I'm not vocal about it. That's too bad.
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 06:30 AM
Jul 2016

If I mention that I'm voting for Hillary I immediately get a lesson on how terrible my fellow Bernie supporters are. It's a favorite pastime of those that always supported Hillary.

So, I just keep quiet; an outcast in my own party.

 

glennward

(989 posts)
5. I'll agree. And will you agree that some Sanders supporters will stop acting like the got NOTHING
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 06:31 AM
Jul 2016

from the DNC and Hillary?

Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
8. Some people just want to pick fights and stir shit.
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 07:05 AM
Jul 2016

Either they're deliberately disrupting or they just have no better way to get their jollies.

And as Skinner noted, there are no "Bernie people" or "Hillary people" anymore. We're all Democrats, here on DU. And we're all Hillary supporters, yes, Bernie included.

I actually think the combination here of widespread unity, along with the new rules, has made it REAL fuckin' hard for the people who thrive on ever-escalating iterations of message board fighting/drama feedback loops.

It's kind of enjoyable to watch, because at least for now they seem to be having a lot of trouble figuring out how to make the old games work in the new reality.

Cracks me right the fuck up, it does.

admins.

Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #8)

JudyM

(29,122 posts)
48. If you are seeing widespread unity, I would love to take a walk through GD-P with you...
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 04:03 PM
Jul 2016

Along with the OP, I am stunned by the frequency of cutting snark in thread after thread, even with all respect to the admins. Maybe if you weren't a Sanders supporter it's not as obvious. A lot of us are still trying to stay part of the community ... Some are bitter winners these days. Seems we ought to be healing and attacking tRump instead of each other. If you see something, please consider saying something.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
52. I hear you. I actually was a Sanders supporter.
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 05:00 PM
Jul 2016

but here's my take: I'm not giving the people who want the fights and drama, what they want.

I'm enjoying watching them spin their wheels and not get any traction. Getting pissed off and reacting is PRECISELY what they're looking for. Reaction allows for further iterations of the fighting and drama, and "don't you try to silence me" and "I'm starting a thread about the thread where attempted silencing of me took place" which then allows further attacks and attempts at divisiveness.

The point is, reacting to it only allows them to perpetuate it. There are people who have been playing these games for a long time. They know what they're doing. The current primary situation is only the latest excuse.

So this is my way of healing. By not playing.

DLCWIdem

(1,557 posts)
54. Can you give me some examples name of threads
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 05:08 PM
Jul 2016

I REALLY do want to know. For my part I've objectedvto the protesters and I believe I am right about that. I believe the THE DNC Convention was meamt for the purpose of getting our nominee off to a start for the general election to kick some Trump rump. But I've seen some great posts from some Democratic Bernie followers.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
56. I dont support the protesters, either. They were rude and out of line.
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 05:20 PM
Jul 2016

But I think some people here would like to continue to hammer on that because they miss the fun of primary fighting and division.

The convention is over, and particulary for those of us not watching it through the filter of cable "newz", it was very unified and uplifting.

To my mind, it is time to move on and support the ticket and party for November. What is served by endlessly going on about "those spoiled brats who held up TPP signs"? It's over, now.

DLCWIdem

(1,557 posts)
61. thank you for saying that. I actually have forgotten about it because what the Dems did
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 05:37 PM
Jul 2016

To counteract the disruption was pure genius IMHO? The USA chants made the dems look patriotic and proud. And the Hillary chants to contradict the other disruptions during her speech generated enthusiasm for her. Maybe the saying is true God works in mysterious ways. Nothing could be done about the Hillary signs they blocked out to spell LIAR but it looked like it was only a few on CSPAN. The disruptors didn't come off so good with the tape on their mouth saying they were being silenced when they were talking behind the tape, they looked ridiculous. So basically alls well that ends well.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
71. I also think the cable news media focused inordinately on the protest stuff
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 08:08 PM
Jul 2016

Overall, watching the raw video and audio streams, it looked pretty unified to me.

JudyM

(29,122 posts)
90. Some of us would like to stay in this community but the level of continued verbal aggression against
Mon Aug 1, 2016, 08:58 AM
Aug 2016

both Bernie (e.g., he accomplished nothing, he's an awful person with all kinds of skeletons that would have come out had he "actually" been vetted, his campaign was just about his ego, he damaged Hillary, he stayed in it too long (how dare he not concede) and that caused all kinds of problems, he isn't a real Dem so should just go away, he should be thankful he got any concessions from her at all, he didn't earn the right to xyz...), and against the people who continue to struggle about whether they can vote for Hillary, and against those of us who supported his campaign (at the heart of it we're sexist, want free things/are immature(!), are racist(!), etc.) is chilling to the cause of unity. I have moved on but some keep twisting the knife, which brings it all back up and is hugely alienating.

Personally, I added more people to my very short ignore list these past few days, which says something about what's happening, so if you keep the foregoing themes in mind you will definitely become more aware of them... They pervade a majority of the posts where Bernie's the subject. Objections from us are not raising consciousness, so whatever original Clinton supporters can do to tamp this down would be wonderful.

Coolest Ranger

(2,034 posts)
10. If it maks you feel better
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 07:26 AM
Jul 2016

I have had to block some Hillary people online too. When I try to help them deal with extremist on their page I'm told to sit my black behind down and chill which angered the living daylights out of me. So I block them told them privately that they were jerks and being a jack ass and that you are a type of supporter I don't want to be associated with and I block them.

Now this was on facebook. So far, every Hillary supporter on this sight has treated me with respect. It's just some folks on social media , facebook especially that I don't get. So I brush it off and focus on the ones who won't disrespect me. Those are the ones I work with. Believe it or not some Hillary supporters have called me the n word

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
23. Social media is a train wreck...
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 08:10 AM
Jul 2016

When it comes to politics. It is now the greatest home to propaganda.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
11. There is another perspective on this
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 07:42 AM
Jul 2016

and I saw the exchange that got you upset. Some wanted to attribute the platform to Bernie, and someone responded that it is Hillary's platform. It's a combination of the two, but then a number of people who supported Bernie in the primary never have no idea what Clinton's positions were because they made a point of refusing to read any of them. So a number of the positions attributed to Bernie were Clinton's positions from the beginning of the primary.

You seem to believe that any suggestion to that effect or that Clinton's is advancing her positions is some sort of indictment on Bernie.

There is a gender subtext to all of this: that this historic achievement of a woman finally--after 240 years of our nation--a major party candidate for the presidency is denied her and attributed to a man, as though her own success doesn't even belong to her.

Then there is the fact that after creating a caricature of Clinton for years on end, you're hardly in a position to comment on which positions are in fact hers.

I thought of you during the convention when all those people spoke about Hillary's tireless efforts--both personal and political--on behalf of ordinary people during her entire life, even before she she entered politics. I thought of how the caricature of her that she is only interested in promoting the interests of the wealthy is utterly refuted by her decades long public activism, doing more in any brief period of time than most of us do in an entire lifetime, than most politicians do in an entire lifetime.

She won. You are going to have to come to terms with the fact that you have been wrong about her. You have no idea who she is or what she stands for, and you are frustrated that others don't accommodate your view that everything positive in the Democratic Platform is because of Bernie. It isn't. That's not to say he hasn't had an influence. Of course he has, but this is Clinton's campaign and now her party. That's a success she has earned through hard work-- damn hard work.

 

rjsquirrel

(4,762 posts)
12. Well said! That "gendered subtext" looms large
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 07:47 AM
Jul 2016

It was hardly even a "subtext" all along.

Just as in the other side some Hillary supporters remain annoyed it hasn't been acknowledged. She won, by a lot. It wasn't close. It wasn't rigged. And a male candidate who won as convincingly as she did, some of us feel, would have been treated differently all along.

Response to rjsquirrel (Reply #12)

Response to Name removed (Reply #13)

Response to BainsBane (Reply #11)

Response to BainsBane (Reply #11)

Arby

(60 posts)
28. Well said.
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 08:42 AM
Jul 2016

I've been thinking the same thoughts, but I don't I could have been as succinct. Kudos.

As a Bernie supporter and a Clinton supporter I firmly believe Bernie has moved to Dem Party back toward the positions the modern Dem Party (before Bill) traditionally held. Hillary states she has heard the call. Time will tell.

The current Dem platform is the mot progressive in decades. Yes there is still room for improvement, but now we need to hold HRC accountable and move the current platform forward. The fight continues.

Lucky Luciano

(11,242 posts)
32. Indeed. I am rooting for Hillary to do the right thing.
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 09:03 AM
Jul 2016

Bernie did all Democrats a huge favor. By proudly calling himself a liberal unabashedly and garnering as much support as he did, the thugs can no longer force our candidates to tack center right for political purposes - that is, unless they want to.

Now HRC and other democrats can proudly claim to be a liberal and fight for liberal things without compromising early like other democrats have done in the past.

Lucky Luciano

(11,242 posts)
31. The gender subtext...
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 08:59 AM
Jul 2016

Like the draft Elizabeth Warren people who became the Bernie people.


The vitriol from Dems to HRC this primary cycle was mostly anti-establishment. The result of the Great Recession still lingers - ask drumpf's primary opponents - he also rode a wave of anti-establishment feelings, but in his case to victory.

I think HRC has a real shot at being one of the best presidents ever if she doesn't tack right post primary. If she does tack right, she will be a yawner.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
38. It's more like blindly calling her useless when you refuse to listen or read up on her....
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 11:14 AM
Jul 2016

Many people here gave Bernie credit for her policies. Many slammed her by repeating RW
lies. And Warren? A woman's popularity tends to plummet the moment she is seen ambitious or competitive. That shit would have been short lived.

Mellomugwump

(93 posts)
40. Exactly!
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 12:20 PM
Jul 2016

Like fighting for universal healthcare YEARS ago, which is one reason she has been so reviled by the right. She dared to take on policy instead of taking on traditional First Lady causes. It seems like a lot of people have forgotten that she took that on first and has paid the price ever since, and nothing pisses me off more than the left buying into to the right wing propaganda.

onecaliberal

(32,489 posts)
72. He was there fighting years before and was standing WITH her those YEARS ago.
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 08:26 PM
Jul 2016

If you're going to get righteous get the whole story straight.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
80. How so?
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 11:01 PM
Jul 2016

Additionally, pointing to Clinton's record is not being self-righteous. It is simply a matter of fact that she led efforts to try to get a universal healthcare plan in the early 90s, and when that was defeated worked to get S-chip passed.

You illustrate my point. How is it that Bernie needs to be credited with her accomplishments, even from decades ago?

onecaliberal

(32,489 posts)
84. He should get credit for what he did before she got there, look at his record.
Mon Aug 1, 2016, 12:19 AM
Aug 2016

They also worked together on many things. They EACH deserve credit. it goes both ways. The fact is the platform is more progressive because Bernie fought for some things and he obviously pulled her a little more left on a few points based on her own statements in the debates and what she says now. That is AWESOME. She changed her mind when presented with more information. Stop trying to act like we are somehow slighting her. I donated, I will be making calls and driving people to the poll. #ImWithHer. So stop it, you're not helping.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
88. I have looked at his record
Mon Aug 1, 2016, 01:40 AM
Aug 2016

That's the first thing I did when he announced his candidacy. He got a Vets bill passed and two post offices named.
I understand that his former supporters place high value on rhetoric, but I do not share the view that qualifies as accomplishment. In this election season, he raised key issues of economic inequality to the national level and had an impact on the platform. That is a indeed significant, but I know of no role he played in the healthcare battle of the early 90s.

You're obviously very defensive about this. These are precisely the kind of responses I got in the primary, anger that I dared to even ask.

The fact is you chose to get defensive merely because someone pointed out that Clinton led the fight on healthcare in the early 90s. The point was a simple one: Too many ignore Clinton's efforts to get universal healthcare passed. It requires no attribution to Bernie.

I'm glad you're supporting Clinton and willing to work for the party, but I am not going to spend the rest of my days attributing Clinton's efforts to Bernie. Her history of public engagement is her own.

sheshe2

(83,353 posts)
82. Boom!
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 11:37 PM
Jul 2016
You seem to believe that any suggestion to that effect or that Clinton's is advancing her positions is some sort of indictment on Bernie.

There is a gender subtext to all of this: that this historic achievement of a woman finally--after 240 years of our nation--a major party candidate for the presidency is denied her and attributed to a man, as though her own success doesn't even belong to her.


Love you Baines!
 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
91. It's interesting for me to notice that many never realized the most pervasive types of cronyism
Mon Aug 1, 2016, 09:04 AM
Aug 2016

And corruption are racism and sexism. It's like a big white elephant in the room- the can see DNC members had played favorites but look at society and do not notice a damn thing wrong with women and POC being severely unrepresented. It's the knly conspiracy some people refuse to notice.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
93. Indeeed
Mon Aug 1, 2016, 01:41 PM
Aug 2016

or that suddenly when we have a woman about to succeed a black president that "the establishment" becomes a concern, while those same detractors celebrate the decades of establishment presidents who preceded them.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
21. I see you have put the very large roller you were painting with away.
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 08:06 AM
Jul 2016

And purchased a pneumatic sprayer.

It would be like me defining every Sanders supporter as a BoB. This is simply inflamitory.

At this point very few Sanders supporters are being asked to join. An overwhelming majority are on board.

IronLionZion

(45,261 posts)
24. Hillary and Bernie are being very professional adults about this
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 08:14 AM
Jul 2016

We should all follow their lead.

Bernie is still a US Senator with a lot more name recognition now. Let's elect liberal majorities in congress so we can get his legislation passed and President Hillary will sign it into law and liberal Supreme Court justices will uphold it.

bekkilyn

(454 posts)
29. Bernie won too. We all won.
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 08:45 AM
Jul 2016

Yes, Bernie lost the primary election and is not the presidential candidate. That goes to Hillary and I hope we all vote for her in November.

However, Bernie won too. Because of Bernie, the Democratic platform is the now most progressive it's ever been and I'm actually inspired to vote for it rather than simply voting for it because it's at least not Republican. We *need* people like Bernie, like Elizabeth Warren, like those others who will keep fighting for income equality, debt free education, health care, etc. when the establishment left to itself tends to falter. We need candidates who will keep inspiring people to have hope, to get out and vote, and remain active in the political process.

One presidential candidate is not enough to do it, whether it be Hillary, Bernie, Obama, or any other. We need EVERYONE.

We've had the closest to everyone we've had in a while thanks to Bernie running a campaign that inspired so many people, and now inspires so many of us to "be with her" as we continue to go forward. Hillary and all the rest of us are stronger for it and stronger together.

Go Bernie! Go Hillary! Go us!

democrattotheend

(11,605 posts)
64. Me too
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 07:23 PM
Jul 2016

I am going to vote for Hillary and am even starting to get excited about it, but I'm still feeling the Bern. I will always be a Bernie supporter.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
34. Who is doing that?
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 10:26 AM
Jul 2016

I've not seen it at all. Maybe you should go after people who are in the threads where it is happening.

Bernie is supporting Hillary Clinton. He has shown himself to be a man of principles.

Seriously, if people are doing what you say, call them on it in those threads. Without links, I can't see any such behavior.

Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
37. Have not seen people sneering but am personally still bothered about the tax returns....
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 11:06 AM
Jul 2016

As well as all the shit about the rules being unfair and ignoring precedent. Honestly that sucked and is still giving Trump cover. I hope Sanders releases his and hits Trump for not doing the same.

democrattotheend

(11,605 posts)
65. Bernie released his 2014 tax returns
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 07:24 PM
Jul 2016

And he probably hadn't done the 2015 ones yet.

Why should he release them now when he is no longer a candidate?

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
67. No, he never released what was promised- and said they were filed....
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 07:37 PM
Jul 2016

And the other form he released was some sort of summary form and not the full return.
He should do it as a gesture to admit it was fair to expect of him and also to keep his promise to us. Honestly the bullshit about he DNC stealing anything from him was getting spread by his supporters and I think he needs to be as transparent as everyone else now. Otherwise hiding the info is a "new rule" and "everyone does it". Shitty.

Response to bettyellen (Reply #67)

George Eliot

(701 posts)
49. I've read here and elsewhere that Clinton supporters did same in 2008. I wasn't here so don't know.
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 04:19 PM
Jul 2016

My perspective is that given all the new voters he attracted, if only ten percent stay that is ten percent more than the party would have had otherwise. People who are democrats aren't going anywhere. The only people that would leave are those who wouldn't have voted anyway or would have voted third party. Every single person should be thanking Bernie whether he increased votes by ten percent or fifth percent. And democrats who didn't like Clinton to begin with would have not voted or would have considered Stein and less likely Johnson.

And Johnson will take votes from Trump but I don't hear complaints and hate talk on the other side. Or am I missing something?

I am a perfect example. If not for Bernie, I would have voted Stein. My allegiance to Bernie is keeping me in the democratic camp. Yes, I'm registered independent but have usually voted democratic. Since Bill Clinton and his march to the right, I've been erratic in my support for democrats. I voted Gore, Kerry and Obama 1X. Just too little consideration for education, jobs and economy for me. i'm forcing myself to believe Clinton will keep her promises on TPP, fracking, the banks.

I can name names on this site and some of you above are guilty. I wish you could let it go.

lapucelle

(18,040 posts)
60. Since last Monday, I've seen lots of Clinton supporters expressing appreciation
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 05:33 PM
Jul 2016

for Bernie, and lots of Bernie supporters saying that they are now in Clinton's corner. These people have found their better angels pretty quickly. It's not easy to do.

It's true that both sides still have pockets of partisans who are very reluctant to forgive and forget. There are probably some who will never forgive and forget. Let it go; let them go.

It takes remarkable character to emerge from pitched battle, suffer incredible disappointment, and to get up and do the next right thing, however hard it may be. It takes kindness and compassion and understanding of the real meaning of community not to gloat, or pile on, or dance in the end zone while the other side looks on with their hearts broken.

I've seen great leaders do these things, leaders named Bernie and Hillary and Barack. Let's learn from their example and try to be like them.



fishwax

(29,146 posts)
69. there is definitely some divisive bullshit from a minority on both sides
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 07:59 PM
Jul 2016

and whether it is a former Bernie supporter attacking Hillary or a presumed Clinton supporter attacking Bernie/Bernie supporters, it ultimately has the same effect of hurting our chances in November.

 

KMOD

(7,906 posts)
76. "a movement that has to continue if any sort of change is to happen"
Sun Jul 31, 2016, 10:25 PM
Jul 2016

That is where we disagree.

I have no problem with Bernie Sanders, or his movement. But he lost. Hillary won. The electorate chose Hillary and her proposals for change. To dismiss the millions of voters who chose Hillary, and to declare that no change will happen without Bernie and his movement is cavalier and frankly insulting to the majority of us who chose Hillary.

Bernie's voice is important. He clearly relates to many non Democrats. Democrats who supported Bernie have already switched their support to Hillary. Democrats know what is at stake here. If Bernie has effectually turned non Democrats on to the Democratic Platform, his cause will have been worthy, but the results still remain to be seen.

But change is not dependent on him. It's dependent on the Democratic Party, and that starts with our Presidential nominee and our congressional representatives. The rest is up to us.

The only movement that matters now, is the Democratic Party, and Hillary Clinton, winning the election. That is the movement that matters. That is the only chance for change.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
83. What I've seen here in the past week or so ...
Mon Aug 1, 2016, 12:19 AM
Aug 2016

... is a true sense of unity.

Most of those who supported Bernie are now with HRC - in the same way most of us who supported Hillary would be with Bernie, had he been the nominee.

There are only a handful of people here who think "Bernie's movement" has been treated as a total failure, or are claiming that there has been "sneering" at the fact that he ran at all.

I am tired of hearing about people being "personally unfair to Bernie", or wanting to "humiliate" him because he lost. He DID lose - and referring to that fact is just that - reference to a FACT. It is not a disparagement of the man or his supporters.

It was always known that ONE candidate would be the nominee. It turned out to be HRC, not BS. It's time to move on and support our nominee - which most people are doing.

Telling them that you are "trying to help" by accusing others of being vindictive and vengeful doesn't strike me as being helpful at all.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
85. I am working for victory. I'm on your side.
Mon Aug 1, 2016, 12:23 AM
Aug 2016

You know perfectly well that I accept HRC as the nominee.

You have to stop treating me and other Sanders supporters with distrust.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
87. That's the point, Ken.
Mon Aug 1, 2016, 12:29 AM
Aug 2016

I don't treat the vast majority of Sanders supporters with distrust - only those who keep insisting that I am, all evidence to the contrary.

R B Garr

(16,920 posts)
92. +1, This whole OP meme has a very disingenuous "quit beating your wife"
Mon Aug 1, 2016, 09:45 AM
Aug 2016

undercurrent to it.

Jury: the quoted words are not literal at all. It refers to a fabricated and clichéd saying meant to illustrate that someone is being wrongly accused to fit a preconceived self-serving narrative. Thank you.

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