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Wed Aug 3, 2016, 03:48 PM

 

Why I have changed my mind

An old friend of mine died very recently. He was a wonderful person. He wasn't that old- in his late 60's. He had a rare degenerative disease and availed himself of the death with dignity law here.

The other day, I was talking to his best friend and we got onto politics. I told him I wasn't planning on voting for HRC because VT is a deep blue state and I wasn't worried about it. He responded that I should be. He said that he feared that too many Bernie supporters would write in Bernie or vote Green or sit it out and that republicans would come out en masse.

But he said something else that pierced my heart. He said that H. had told him, shortly before his death, that he had never hated anyone in his life until Trump. I certainly never heard him express even dislike for anyone. If he didn't have anything good to say, he just didn't say it.

And then my son said this:

"Mom, there's never been a candidate I wanted to vote against more than Trump, and there's never been a candidate I wanted to vote for less than Hillary. I'm voting for Hillary".

To top it all off, a very dear friend, and the wisest person I know chided me, albeit in his very gentle way in a long, long very early morning phone conversation.

But that's not all. My brief time at JPR, was, er, enlightening. I'm not going to say anything beyond that regarding JPR. (and I'm sure that some there will now take great satisfaction in this post and my change of mind, as it will confirm to them that I am what they ceaselessly called me, a "hillbot".

Still not all. The nuclear code. Michael Hayden. Trump's ghost writer, Schwartz.

So, I'll vote for HRC for all those reasons, and hope for the best. God knows, I hope she beats Trump- if he doesn't finish melting down and find some excuse to drop out.

243 replies, 23056 views

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Arrow 243 replies Author Time Post
Reply Why I have changed my mind (Original post)
cali Aug 2016 OP
VulgarPoet Aug 2016 #1
JaneyVee Aug 2016 #171
Lunabell Aug 2016 #182
Lunabell Aug 2016 #183
Justice Aug 2016 #187
betsuni Aug 2016 #189
JaneyVee Aug 2016 #190
msanthrope Aug 2016 #193
AgadorSparticus Aug 2016 #243
appal_jack Aug 2016 #216
BobbyDrake Aug 2016 #217
TransitJohn Aug 2016 #208
rivegauche Aug 2016 #210
BobbyDrake Aug 2016 #218
rivegauche Aug 2016 #220
cali Aug 2016 #232
senseandsensibility Aug 2016 #2
cali Aug 2016 #4
senseandsensibility Aug 2016 #9
redwitch Aug 2016 #10
calimary Aug 2016 #91
cali Aug 2016 #213
Hekate Aug 2016 #27
bettyellen Aug 2016 #34
ohheckyeah Aug 2016 #66
MineralMan Aug 2016 #3
Guy Whitey Corngood Aug 2016 #5
GoneOffShore Aug 2016 #43
calimary Aug 2016 #95
calimary Aug 2016 #94
BeyondGeography Aug 2016 #6
auntpurl Aug 2016 #7
cali Aug 2016 #8
Plucketeer Aug 2016 #84
calimary Aug 2016 #99
Gaytheist212 Aug 2016 #140
fleabiscuit Aug 2016 #149
herding cats Aug 2016 #161
Indpndnt Aug 2016 #166
auntpurl Aug 2016 #200
betsuni Aug 2016 #201
mindfulNJ Aug 2016 #240
frazzled Aug 2016 #11
Hortensis Aug 2016 #12
aikoaiko Aug 2016 #13
bettyellen Aug 2016 #35
obamanut2012 Aug 2016 #50
SunSeeker Aug 2016 #178
cali Aug 2016 #36
aikoaiko Aug 2016 #40
obamanut2012 Aug 2016 #48
calimary Aug 2016 #100
Vinca Aug 2016 #14
calimary Aug 2016 #102
mopinko Aug 2016 #15
calimary Aug 2016 #104
mopinko Aug 2016 #112
Tom Rinaldo Aug 2016 #16
cali Aug 2016 #203
sufrommich Aug 2016 #17
JudyM Aug 2016 #18
cali Aug 2016 #20
calimary Aug 2016 #107
JudyM Aug 2016 #196
calimary Aug 2016 #224
JudyM Aug 2016 #225
calimary Aug 2016 #229
hvn_nbr_2 Aug 2016 #19
DrDan Aug 2016 #47
workinclasszero Aug 2016 #144
drm604 Aug 2016 #153
still_one Aug 2016 #21
geek tragedy Aug 2016 #22
maddiemom Aug 2016 #46
panader0 Aug 2016 #23
calimary Aug 2016 #109
Maru Kitteh Aug 2016 #173
Tobin S. Aug 2016 #24
cali Aug 2016 #28
calimary Aug 2016 #115
Hekate Aug 2016 #25
pampango Aug 2016 #26
Chasstev365 Aug 2016 #29
MerryBlooms Aug 2016 #30
angrychair Aug 2016 #31
calimary Aug 2016 #119
PeaceNikki Aug 2016 #32
Peacetrain Aug 2016 #33
Paladin Aug 2016 #37
Raster Aug 2016 #38
kestrel91316 Aug 2016 #39
calimary Aug 2016 #122
Recursion Aug 2016 #41
Maven Aug 2016 #42
maddiemom Aug 2016 #44
GoneOffShore Aug 2016 #45
heaven05 Aug 2016 #49
Loki Aug 2016 #51
cali Aug 2016 #54
Starry Messenger Aug 2016 #52
TuxedoKat Aug 2016 #53
Squinch Aug 2016 #55
awoke_in_2003 Aug 2016 #56
grossproffit Aug 2016 #57
drray23 Aug 2016 #58
Codeine Aug 2016 #59
cry baby Aug 2016 #60
BlueMTexpat Aug 2016 #61
bluedigger Aug 2016 #62
MurrayDelph Aug 2016 #63
calimary Aug 2016 #123
Maru Kitteh Aug 2016 #175
emulatorloo Aug 2016 #64
cali Aug 2016 #75
jumptheshadow Aug 2016 #65
Generic Other Aug 2016 #67
calimary Aug 2016 #124
mountain grammy Aug 2016 #68
calimary Aug 2016 #125
Hortensis Aug 2016 #231
mountain grammy Aug 2016 #235
Vattel Aug 2016 #69
Cary Aug 2016 #70
cali Aug 2016 #74
Cary Aug 2016 #77
cali Aug 2016 #79
Cary Aug 2016 #87
cali Aug 2016 #89
Cary Aug 2016 #97
calimary Aug 2016 #127
geek tragedy Aug 2016 #88
bullwinkle428 Aug 2016 #151
bravenak Aug 2016 #71
LongTomH Aug 2016 #72
sellitman Aug 2016 #73
Cary Aug 2016 #78
cally Aug 2016 #135
calimary Aug 2016 #154
Andy823 Aug 2016 #76
DCBob Aug 2016 #80
cali Aug 2016 #85
DinahMoeHum Aug 2016 #81
cali Aug 2016 #86
tammywammy Aug 2016 #82
Mike Nelson Aug 2016 #83
calimary Aug 2016 #90
nolabear Aug 2016 #92
cali Aug 2016 #93
stage left Aug 2016 #159
marble falls Aug 2016 #96
Fresh_Start Aug 2016 #98
stupidicus Aug 2016 #101
cali Aug 2016 #110
Metric System Aug 2016 #141
calimary Aug 2016 #157
redstateblues Aug 2016 #103
riderinthestorm Aug 2016 #105
cali Aug 2016 #143
The Second Stone Aug 2016 #106
cali Aug 2016 #111
Post removed Aug 2016 #114
Lisa0825 Aug 2016 #108
DemonGoddess Aug 2016 #113
Bluenorthwest Aug 2016 #116
cali Aug 2016 #121
George Eliot Aug 2016 #117
calimary Aug 2016 #160
Maru Kitteh Aug 2016 #176
George Eliot Aug 2016 #226
Maru Kitteh Aug 2016 #227
cyberswede Aug 2016 #118
Autumn Aug 2016 #120
The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2016 #126
calimary Aug 2016 #163
niyad Aug 2016 #128
LonePirate Aug 2016 #129
riversedge Aug 2016 #130
MFM008 Aug 2016 #131
Agnosticsherbet Aug 2016 #132
dflprincess Aug 2016 #133
calimary Aug 2016 #164
stevenleser Aug 2016 #134
cally Aug 2016 #136
Xyzse Aug 2016 #137
st17011864200074656 Aug 2016 #138
Maru Kitteh Aug 2016 #177
st17011864200074656 Aug 2016 #181
Hortensis Aug 2016 #233
Javaman Aug 2016 #139
calimary Aug 2016 #165
metroins Aug 2016 #142
hay rick Aug 2016 #145
calimary Aug 2016 #167
OneTrueLeroy Aug 2016 #146
calimary Aug 2016 #168
ballabosh Aug 2016 #147
spooky3 Aug 2016 #148
GulfCoast66 Aug 2016 #150
bullwinkle428 Aug 2016 #152
onecaliberal Aug 2016 #155
wysi Aug 2016 #156
herding cats Aug 2016 #158
Rex Aug 2016 #162
Behind the Aegis Aug 2016 #169
crim son Aug 2016 #170
Maru Kitteh Aug 2016 #172
WatchWhatISay Aug 2016 #174
DemocraticWing Aug 2016 #179
silverweb Aug 2016 #180
Lunabell Aug 2016 #184
Name removed Aug 2016 #185
OKNancy Aug 2016 #186
cali Aug 2016 #214
Gabi Hayes Aug 2016 #188
bigtree Aug 2016 #191
LostOne4Ever Aug 2016 #192
msanthrope Aug 2016 #194
raven mad Aug 2016 #195
cali Aug 2016 #198
raven mad Aug 2016 #199
Adrahil Aug 2016 #197
get the red out Aug 2016 #202
Rilgin Aug 2016 #204
Locrian Aug 2016 #205
betsuni Aug 2016 #219
Locrian Aug 2016 #221
freebrew Aug 2016 #206
cali Aug 2016 #211
Hortensis Aug 2016 #234
freebrew Aug 2016 #236
Hortensis Aug 2016 #237
freebrew Aug 2016 #238
Hortensis Aug 2016 #239
nolabels Aug 2016 #207
Fast Walker 52 Aug 2016 #209
cali Aug 2016 #212
LiberalLovinLug Aug 2016 #215
mvd Aug 2016 #222
Sissyk Aug 2016 #223
Agschmid Aug 2016 #228
joshcryer Aug 2016 #230
mindfulNJ Aug 2016 #241
Purveyor Aug 2016 #242

Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 03:49 PM

1. I'm still having that moment of clarity.

Every day seems to be another step across the friggin' Rubicon, mate.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 12:55 AM

171. Oh gee guys, thanks for your "sacrifice", wouldnt want to inconvenience you.

 

We're only trying to save the world, but you guys take your time wrestling with your conscience deciding whether to leave your house to vote to stop Trump. As if such a decision even needs debate.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #171)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 04:30 AM

182. You're sarcasm isn't appreciated.

At least some of us ARE wrestling with our conscience. We are very thoughtful and don't make this political decision lightly. It does need debate. This is an election, not coronation.

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Response to Lunabell (Reply #182)


Response to Lunabell (Reply #182)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 05:26 AM

187. Okay, that is out of line.

I wrestled with my decision.

I was thoughtful about it.

I take this political decision extremely seriously.

It is an election.

Really rich. No tolerance by some of criticism of people who only just have figured it out (when so obvious) - no, what the heck took you so long etc. must be gentle, kind let people work thru it. ...

And then this post implying that those who got it and made the obviously correct decision from day one are shallow, easily swayed, and thoughtless?

Coronation because backed the best candidate from day one?

Don't even.



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Response to Lunabell (Reply #182)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 06:48 AM

189. Why I have not changed my mind.

The one I have now is fine. The decision doesn't need conscience-wrestling, heavy thinking or debate. "Coronation"? I think you have the wrong country. Your sarcasm isn't appreciated.

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Response to Lunabell (Reply #182)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 06:59 AM

190. A Madam President vs. A Madman President.

 

Take your time.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #190)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 07:42 AM

193. I want that bumpersticker. nt

 

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #193)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 03:31 PM

243. Me too.

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Response to Lunabell (Reply #182)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 03:10 PM

216. Wait, isn't vinegar-soaked 80-grit sandpaper messaging appealing to you?

 

I know when I need to cultivate allies and build majority coalitions, acerbically attacking people who are just about to and/or have recently come around to sharing my perspective is EXACTLY the winning strategy. Who cares about you losers and your thoughtful, carefully weighed choices anyway?



In all seriousness, thanks for calling out a behavior that does no favors for Democratic electoral chances whatsoever. However, I encourage you to delete that gratuitous and erroneous apostrophe ("your sarcasm," not "you're sarcasm" - though being the actual embodiment of sarcasm sounds fun in certain contexts...).

-app

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Response to Lunabell (Reply #182)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 04:44 PM

217. HRC supporters are not the ones who expected a coronation.

 

Not one bit. That sounds like projection.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #171)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 12:33 PM

208. UN-fucking-rec

Real shitty post, in my opinion.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #171)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 01:03 PM

210. is it helpful to be hostile to Bernie people who

are coming around to Hillary? Why not just welcome them with open arms? We are ALL DEMOCRATS. We have far more in common than we have differences, after all.

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Response to rivegauche (Reply #210)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 04:45 PM

218. Why weren't we "all Democrats" back when DU's jury was being used to silence HRC voters?

 

Demanding treatment that you never offered isn't a great look.

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Response to BobbyDrake (Reply #218)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 05:06 PM

220. Not sure who you believe you are talking to

I have nothing to do with this website, except as a member. I don't vote on any jury or anything like that. I'm just making a point that it's stupid and pointless for us Democrats to fight about pissy things. I WAS a Bernie supporter. I respect our process and I'm with her now.

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Response to rivegauche (Reply #210)

Fri Aug 5, 2016, 06:12 AM

232. Years ago, I wrote on tee shirt. On the front I wrote "We all have more in common than that which

 

which separates us. The back read "though that which separates us can seem vast"

Sometimes it's hard to see the commonalities and all to easy to see the differences.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 03:52 PM

2. Thanks for the explanation,

which I take at face value, and welcome back. We need your voice here.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Reply #2)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 03:54 PM

4. thanks. It's been a rather depressing few weeks.

 

The death of the friend I referred to was the third death in less than a month.

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Response to cali (Reply #4)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:09 PM

9. I'm sorry for your loss.

Having just gone through one myself, I know that it does put things in perspective.

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Response to cali (Reply #4)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:10 PM

10. Oh Cali how awful!

Just lost a dear friend to a rare cancer. 58 years old. She and her husband were the most perfectly connected couple I have ever known and he is devastated.

Hang in there my friend. I have also decided to vote against Trump and for Hillary. What could have been...

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Response to redwitch (Reply #10)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:44 PM

91. Thank you, redwitch.

We all have to help get her to the White House - together.

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Response to redwitch (Reply #10)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 01:15 PM

213. My condolences on the lost of your friend. Funny how young 58 seems.

 

And what will be could surprise us.

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Response to cali (Reply #4)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:57 PM

27. I'm so very sorry for your losses

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Response to cali (Reply #4)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 05:19 PM

34. So sorry to hear that, take good care of yourself please.

 

I'm glad you're off that hate site. Makes me sad we lost a few good people to that cesspool. I hope they understand we are open to have back all those who can't abide the hatred there.

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Response to cali (Reply #4)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 06:52 PM

66. Sorry for your losses. Death sucksfor those left behind.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 03:53 PM

3. I'm listening...

As always.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 03:58 PM

5. I've been going through the same thing here in IL. Watching this video earlier today. I

was thinking what so many others have said (a lot less vulgarly of course). But these motherfucking goat fuckers cannot be legitimized. 50%+1 is not enough. In the end this talking hemorrhoid will still get an obscene amount of voters. But my hope is that it'll be reduced to to just his hard core brown shirts and maybe just a few "both sides do it" morons.

http://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000004533191/unfiltered-voices-from-donald-trumps-crowds.html?src=vidm

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 05:48 PM

43. I am on the same page. I was really happy that Bernie got in the race.

But, as you say, "these motherfucking goat fuckers cannot be legitimized. 50%+1 is not enough."

I flirted with the idea of writing in Bernie here in PA, but realized that the whole thing could, if the ratfucking brownshirts of TrumPutin all turn out, it could be close.

I don't want it to be close. I want it to be a goddam shit tsunami that washes over TrumPutin and his miserable, bigoted, misogynistic, homophobic, xenophobic amoeba fucking followers.

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Response to GoneOffShore (Reply #43)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:54 PM

95. Pennsylvania looks like a tough one.

Thank you for doing what you can to push it soundly into the Hillary column, GoneOffShore.

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:52 PM

94. "...this talking hemorrhoid" !!! WUNNNNNNderful!

You're spot on, Guy. These "motherfucking goat fuckers" MUST not be legitimized. That's already happened, thanks to hate radio and Pox Noise and Alex Jones and Breitbart and Drudge and other hate-media. Entities like that HAVE legitimized those MGFs and made it okay for them not only to feel the way they feel without guilt, but also to be loud 'n' proud about it. That shit belongs locked away as the racist, sexist, intolerant, mean-spirited, UnChristian and UnAmerican embarrassment that it used to be. Stuff you knew never to repeat in polite company or want anyone to know how you really felt. That's why you see all this hatred of "political correctness" over there on that side of things.

So let's not help them, or further their reach. They seriously need to have the snot beaten out of them at the polls in November. And their Mr. I-Don't-Need-Humility needs a MASSIVE dose of it, himself.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:01 PM

6. Called you a Hillbot

Hey, I laughed...good to have you back. The things we get excited about politically remind me of your OP; someday, we're all going to have much worse problems.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:08 PM

7. Welcome back.

I'm glad you're here, and I'm glad you've come to this decision. Your voice will be powerful, in your community, for any Busters or people who are wavering. You're a person who can speak to your reservations about Hillary, but your commitment to beating Trump and putting down the grave danger he poses to our society, our country, and our world.

Also, I'm just personally glad you're here. I'm sorry about your friend.

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Response to auntpurl (Reply #7)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:09 PM

8. thank you.

 

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Response to cali (Reply #8)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:27 PM

84. I'm with you as well

 

She'll likely get my vote in no small part because Bernie's urged that we do so.

What irks me more than Hillary or Trump is that this is SUPPOSED to be a land of choices. And at this point in history - if you've got two brain cells to consider with - you DON'T have viable, honest choices. you just don't. Trump's not a choice. Stein's not a choice - neither is Johnson or any of the others we've never heard of. So WHERE ARE the >choices< for me to consider? Anybody?

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Response to Plucketeer (Reply #84)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 09:07 PM

99. Perhaps a Hillary Clinton viewed from a different angle?

I know it's not what your heart desires, Plucketeer. But sometimes in my own life, I've found that letting my head lead, and making a head-over-heart decision, has turned out to be the better choice by far. At the moment, I honestly can't remember any head-over-heart decision I ever made that DIDN'T turn out to be the better choice by far. But that's just me.

I know it's hard. Maybe some of the following will help? Humbly submitted for your consideration...

http://crooksandliars.com/2016/07/hillary-clinton-i-know

And this one - from Mother Jones magazine, an outlet that's had a lot of credibility re: support of Bernie Sanders.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/08/hillary-clinton-one-americas-most-honest-politicians

I'm hoping the Dem convention last week helped introduce Hillary to people who have only ever seen her through the clouded and slimed lenses of the propaganda machine that the wrong-wingers have stoked against her for about a quarter century. She's NOT the Devil. She's NOT some monster. She's NOT corrupt, or corrupted. She's NOT evil. Or any of that other shit that's been slung at her nonstop. I've watched, utterly dumbfounded, while that woman was utterly persecuted for all this time. It's made her tough, resolved, more focused, battle-tested, and with skin thicker than the width of Trump Tower. And she IS on our side. That's actually where she STARTED.

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Response to Plucketeer (Reply #84)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:59 PM

140. Choices

Well, you got to make your choice in the primary, but millions more voters picked HRC over Sanders. Now, you are down to four choices, but only two of those choices are viable candidates. You were allowed to choose and vote for a candidate in a voter selection process that whittles the candidate field down to one candidate from the primary round. It isn't that you do not have choices or that you never had choices, it is that your choice was eliminated in the previous round of voting. The people who voted for the other 16 candidates in the GOP primary also got to choose and vote for their candidate of their choosing, but those people were eliminated. They, like you, are down to four candidates.

One of the sad parts of a democracy is that sometimes those in charge are not the people for whom we voted. Not getting your way in an election doesn't mean you didn't get a chance to choose, it just means that other people also got to chose and more of them chose the candidate running against your guy. Disappointment is not disenfranchisement. There are people in the world who genuinely do not get to choose who runs their governments and would kill for the chance to live with disappointment because disappointment means they at least had a say.

I hope that the prospect of someone like me suffering immensely under a Trump presidency and decades to come as a result of his having the power to appoint SCOTUS justices moves you enough to vote for HRC. I'm a gay woman of color. If Trump is elected, my marriage will be invalidated because I'm married to another woman. If Trump is elected, I will lose the right to the integrity of my person as Roe would become a thing of the past. If Trump wins, my physical safety will be in danger because violent white supremacy will be validated. I know that Citizens United is a huge issue for Sanders voters, but people of color and poor people are losing their right to vote because of voter ID laws. Trump's election would give him the power to appoint judges and SCOTUS justices who would uphold those laws and continue gutting the VRA.

Please also think of Muslims, Latinos, immigrants, LGBT people, those who need the ACA for healthcare, women, and poor people. Some people will survive a Trump presidency, but many people who already face oppression and precarious existences in this country will suffer during his term and live with the consequences of it for decades because of the courts. Is the prospect of inflicting harm on us not sufficiently morally repulsive to make you vote for HRC? You and I certainly have very different views on her, but, if you're a Democrat, I would hope that we share the belief that moving to block the suffering of others is our highest calling and takes priority over electoral disappointment.

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Response to Gaytheist212 (Reply #140)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 11:38 PM

149. +1, and welcome.

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Response to Gaytheist212 (Reply #140)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 12:15 AM

161. One of the most profound first post I've ever had the pleasure of reading here.

Welcome to DU!

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Response to Gaytheist212 (Reply #140)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 12:24 AM

166. Very well said.

And welcome to DU.

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Response to Gaytheist212 (Reply #140)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 10:24 AM

200. Hear hear.

Welcome to DU.

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Response to Gaytheist212 (Reply #140)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 10:28 AM

201. This is beautiful.

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Response to Gaytheist212 (Reply #140)

Fri Aug 5, 2016, 11:48 AM

240. Welcome to DU

Starting out with a bang...what a great post!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:11 PM

11. Love really does trump hate

So sorry that you lost your friend. I've been there, and I know how much it hurts, and how much it can change your views on life. It opens you up to many things about living and loving as much as possible for every minute you have. The loss will take a long time to stop hurting, but the positive memories of your friend will grow stronger each day, lightening your load.

I'm glad to hear that you'll be helping in the fight to keep the country out of dangerous hands. We need as many voices as possible (whether your state is "safe" or not) to counter the hateful and dangerous messages that are being sent by the Trump campaign. We must send an overwhelming and definitive message to the country and the world to say, "Not In Our Names."

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:21 PM

12. Well, in an imperfect world candidates are imperfect,

and forums and their people are too, but at least I'm pretty sure you'll never be called a "hillbot" here.

Fwiw.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:29 PM

13. "I'm [not] with her" the way some people are here, but I'm with you on this vote cali.



Welcome back. And I hate the JPR hate on DU even as I am not happy with somethings I see on JPR. I think those DU posts are just proxy primary ways and divisive to DU.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #13)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 05:23 PM

35. Primary is over - they are shilling for Trump and spreading RW bullshit over there...

 

Same as any hateful RW site. I know some were duped into thinking they were friends or on the same page, but they have been unmasked. As RW assholes.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #35)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 06:00 PM

50. THIS

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #35)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 02:01 AM

178. Exactly. nt

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #13)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 05:27 PM

36. I don't know. I just know I try hard not to hate.

 

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Response to cali (Reply #36)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 05:31 PM

40. You're alright by me.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #13)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 05:58 PM

48. JPR is an HRC hate site

Including using many horrible gendered slurs against her.

MANY posters on there actually root for Trump to win.

I think it's fine to hate a hate site.

It was shocking to me to see some DUers I thought were good people on that site. Am glad Cali is back.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #13)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 09:17 PM

100. Thank you, aikoaiko.

I know this outcome was not what you'd hoped for. And I know how much it hurts when your heart is broken, as I sincerely accept that some people here are feeling. Maybe those broken hearts need some time to get off this sometimes maddening merry-go-round, heal, and chill out. Let their heads lift the load and take the lead for awhile.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:32 PM

14. Glad you're back.

I love Bernie, too, but we're in save-the-nation-from-Trump mode at this point. IMO, a third party vote will only benefit Trump and, given he's a bona fide crazy, he cannot be allowed to win. Wish Paper Roses and Grasswire would come back, too.

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Response to Vinca (Reply #14)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 09:26 PM

102. Thanks so much, Vinca.

I found my way to DU after those five lovely Supreme Court justices found it necessary to help bush/cheney steal the election. Because devious manipulation on their side allowed them to get close enough to steal it. Because third-party spoiler Ralph Nader insisted on staying in and screwing things up.

I've found, after watching a lot of elections, that people who feel the need to "send a message" by voting third party only wind up sending ONE message: "Hi! My name is CHUMP." And YIKES! This year that even rhymes with the opposing candidate and horrifyingly reckless global threat, so we've REALLY gotta get this one right!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:36 PM

15. welcome back

 

yes, sometimes a great loss can make us take stock.
i was a berner, but always said i would be happy to vote for hillary. i dont know her, but i suspect that people who do, who know the real woman, have a very different story to tell than what we see on the teevee machine, and on the interwebs.
deep down i am pretty sure she is a truly decent human being.

take care of yourself. that is a lot to lose in such a short time.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #15)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 09:31 PM

104. Really appreciate this, mopinko.

I don't know her, personally, either. But I've seen enough over the years to have been completely convinced. She's been persecuted for about 25 years by now. And she's been portrayed NONSTOP as some sort of Bitch from Hell. I've always found that to be outrageously unfair and untrue. But it sure proves how effective relentless, consistent, and never-ending propaganda can be.

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Response to calimary (Reply #104)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 09:52 PM

112. i have a tattoo

 

that says- you say i'm a bitch like it's a bad thing.
so, yeah....

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:42 PM

16. I'm glad you're back here Cali

But I'm so sorry to hear of all your losses. On occasion I post on JPR - you know that - but I m almost always posting against the grain there when I do. But I believe in dialogue so I never left DU nor will I totally leave there, as long as I can remain honest to my views there with some still willing to listen.

You and I far more often than not see things very similarly. Trump must be defeated soundly for a whole host of very compelling reasons.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #16)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 10:52 AM

203. Hi Tom, thanks. You know how much I value your thoughtful comments

 

Yes, I know you post there. And I admire you for adhering to your pov. I just found it virtually impossible to have a thoughtful discussion there because it always came back to Hillary and how evil she is, no matter the subject. As well as finding myself very uncomfortable with that, I found it boring and frustrating. It just seemed obsessive to such a high degree that I could no longer engage there.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:44 PM

17. Welcome back,Cali.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:47 PM

18. So sad to lose a dear friend, and H. sounds like he was a very special guy.

Death or any other psychic pain can totally offer perspective, but I'm so sorry this is part of what it took... I'm glad you decided to vote for the other, very different H, as I have. Despite the principled reasons not to, the reasons to do so really are stark.

I am also holding out hope that she will keep the spirit of her agreements with Bernie, and I will say that I will view her much more positively if, in fact, she stays true to that. So there's that for you to look to, too.

Good to have you here, Cali... in a big way.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #18)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:49 PM

20. thank you for those kind words.

 

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Response to JudyM (Reply #18)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 09:37 PM

107. Thank you, JudyM.

Glad you've changed your mind, too. Don't forget - even Hillary herself is repeatedly reminding that we should all not just vote for her but hold her accountable.

There were things I didn't know about Hillary, even while being a fan (and yeah, knowing a fair amount about her) for years. I didn't realize, for example, that she was the most progressive person (and sometimes the ONLY progressive person) in her husband's orbit when he was President. That I learned from independent observers and participants.

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Response to calimary (Reply #107)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 10:03 AM

196. That's interesting. I am hoping for the best, for sure.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #196)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 07:54 PM

224. Yeah! It was interesting. From the "hmmm, you think you know somebody..." file.

I found this item, in particular, most illuminating:

http://crooksandliars.com/2016/07/hillary-clinton-i-know

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Response to calimary (Reply #224)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 11:34 PM

225. This was worth reading until the last few paragraphs...

I like the "wave" aspiration for the election, especially.

I won't be able (per TOS) to get into the issues that exist with the "she is a really good person" paragraph, except to point out that the vignettes offered there do little to support that, IMO - she is nice to children...?!

And in this quote from the article I'm just going to add emphasis for fun:
There will be plenty of powerful big business interests, as well as those in Congress that she has to work every day with, pushing her to support the usual pro-corporate policies. There will be plenty of conservative defense industry types and generals wanting her to be more aggressive militarily. We will have to work our hearts out after she is elected to influence her, her appointees, and the House and Senate to do the right thing.


But the picture painted of her going to bat for more progressive positions than Bill, I believe that and can respect it. And this does support that part of her character as being goodness. There is a lot of water under the bridge since then, and there is concern among a good many progressive voters that other interests may be more compelling to her; this will be a challenging impression for her to overcome. I hope it means enough to her to make the effort.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #225)

Fri Aug 5, 2016, 12:51 AM

229. I'd say she's as you hope, and you're wise to maintain your objectivity.

From what she's said, I'd guess she'd agree with YOU. She's already declared, multiple times, that she hopes we'll vote for her and then hold her accountable. Tim Kaine's said that, too. They seem ready to work.

The thing I sense about her, that I've always liked, is that I feel she "gets" the idea that this stuff she does is public SERVICE. And when you're an elected official, as she has been, you are a public SERVANT.

I have NEVER sensed that about an individual like Donald Trump, AT ALL.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:48 PM

19. What's JPR? nt

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Response to hvn_nbr_2 (Reply #19)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 05:57 PM

47. Jackpine Radicals - a spin-off site for some disenchanteds

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Response to hvn_nbr_2 (Reply #19)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 11:07 PM

144. Pinebagger central

 

"Progressive" Trump lovers.

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Response to hvn_nbr_2 (Reply #19)


Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:50 PM

21. Before you went to that other site you did maintain that you would be voting for the Democratic

nominee. I think you were pretty consistent on that.

Regardless, I am glad you are supporting Bernie's position, and let's do what we can to get a Democratic President and Congress

Welcome back

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:51 PM

22. Give her your vote before the election, give her hell after the election.

 

You're doing the right thing

Sorry about your friend. Hope you're doing ok.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #22)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 05:52 PM

46. Exactly!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:52 PM

23. I have voted Democratic my entire life (I'm 65)

I too joined JPR last year when the primaries were still being contested.
At that time it was set up to support all things Bernie. He was my guy.
I never really thought he'd get as far as he did and I'm glad for the
additions he made to the platform. When Comey exonerated HRC, I knew
she was the Democratic nominee. When my guy Bernie endorsed her I
thought about it and decided to go with it. JPR is now dedicated to
progressive causes, although I have been put off by some of the posts there.
This post may get me banned from there. I cannot see the wisdom in voting
third party knowing in advance that they can't win. And, as I stated above, I have
voted Democratic my entire life. This cycle will be no different, and no matter what
differences I may have with HRC, she is light years above Trump. He must not win.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #23)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 09:45 PM

109. What might be a good way to think about it, for those still favoring Bernie,

at least in their hearts, would be this:

You're STILL supporting Bernie Sanders. When he came aboard with Hillary, he urged his followers to do likewise. So those who decide to do so are STILL voting for what Bernie stands for. He now is "with her." And many of her longtime positions on the issues have always been with him. I think I remember that their voting record when they were both in the Senate together was something like 92 or 93 percent identical.

And figure it this way, too. If Trump wins, do you think in your wildest imagination that he'd give Bernie the time of day? Hillary will. After all, they're on the same side on the VAST majority of issues. And he WILL have her ear.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #23)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 01:23 AM

173. Thank you Pander0, for supporting Democrats & voting for our nominee.

And saying so. I know that's a big deal for you.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:53 PM

24. More evidence of more people coming around.

My wife and I voted for Bernie in the primary election and I donated money to his campaign when we didn't have a whole lot of room to be giving. But, for us, we just felt like we had to support whoever ended up with the nomination. It wasn't so much that we disliked Hillary, we just really loved Bernie.

I know a lot of Bernie supporters are still upset and they are not accepting of Hillary just yet. However, I am seeing glimmers of hope that more of them are starting to come around. It is very difficult for a lot of people to accept defeat of a beloved candidate and they sometimes even demonize fellow liberals who supported someone else. To those people, I ask you to find a way to make your peace with it and move on. We'll need you come November. There's a fascist at the White House door.

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Response to Tobin S. (Reply #24)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:59 PM

28. My opposition to HRC was unrelated to my support for Bernie.

 

I always said here that he wasn't going to win the nomination.

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Response to Tobin S. (Reply #24)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 09:57 PM

115. Thank you, Tobin S.

And to your wife also. Glad you're both aboard. Seems to me it's not just important that she wins. She needs to win BIG-BIG-BIG. AND other Dems down-ticket, including the local ones, need the votes, too. We might just have a shot at taking back the Senate and maybe even the House, this round. Senate's more probable, but we do need that, because it would be lovely to see Hillary Clinton pick one or more new Supreme Court justices.

And, I'm ardently hoping we can make a difference at the state level. I saw a news item on, I think Chris Hayes's show, that some 11 (I think) allies of that asshole Governor Sam Brownback in the state legislature (I think) got blown out in the Kansas primary last night. That's at least a few opportunities that might open up for Democrats. However, although that teabagger idiot who gave John Boehner such a problem was defeated, too, there wasn't a Democrat up against him, so we're stuck with yet another CON in that seat. Just not a teabagger CON, but more of an establishment moderate, as he was described, so I suppose that's some sort of "improvement"...

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:54 PM

25. Welcome back, Cali.

I'm sure you know a bunch of people missed arguing with you -- several weeks ago there were 2 OPs and a lot of concurrence on that topic. I was touched just reading about it.

So from me to you, a DU

Now let's do this thing, and send Trump and his supporters back to the fever-swamps from whence they came.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 04:56 PM

26. Wonderful to have you back, Cali. I saw many of your posts over 'there'. You are always

Last edited Wed Aug 3, 2016, 05:32 PM - Edit history (1)

a voice of reason, 'there' or 'here', regardless of whether I agree with you or not.

(I have posted a few times 'there' under a different name. The responses to your 'reason' were very enlightening to me as to the mentality of too many of the posters 'there'.)

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 05:00 PM

29. Glad to hear! You were one of the most...

 

fair minded people during the Hillary/Bernie anger. So glad you're back!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 05:03 PM

30. Welcome back.

I'm so sorry for your losses.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 05:04 PM

31. Exactly where I am at

If he were not a TV personality and of some appearance of wealth, tRump would be about as relevant a presidential candidate as that time-traveling guy that fought dinosaurs on Mars with president Obama (true story, the guy, not the time-traveling part)

As the saying goes: my heart and mind are with Sanders but my vote is with Hillary.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #31)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:08 PM

119. That's terrific, angrychair! Thank you.

Mighty gratified that you decided to switch. Hillary will carry a lot of the same ideas Bernie was talking about - into the Oval Office with her. And as I mentioned farther upthread, it's a LOT more of a sure thing that he'll have her ear, than the chance that he'd EVER have a President Trump's ear.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 05:09 PM

32. I am so very sorry about your loss. And welcome home.

Peace and comfort to you and all who loved him.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 05:10 PM

33. Welcome home Cali.. so sorry about the loss of your friend..

If Trump is not defeated, all of us might as well pack it up..because this country will become unlivable..

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 05:27 PM

37. Thank you. (nt)

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 05:30 PM

38. Welcome back, cali.

Your voice is appreciated. Your son is correct, there has never been a candidate more deserving of votes AGAINST than Donald Trump. I still cannot believe that he is a Presidential candidate for a major political party, and actually has a shot at winning.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 05:30 PM

39. Welcome back! I supported Bernie right through til his endorsement of

 

Hillary and the convention. I support her 100% now. I have stayed away for nearly a year because of how this place is during primaries.

No, she's not perfect. But I realize I had bought into a little of the hate and my fears are not justified.

Regardless, we MUST NOT LET TRUMP COME EVEN CLOSE TO WINNING.

If I could vote for her 100 times i would.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #39)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:12 PM

122. She's certainly not perfect. But compared to what else there is, she's absolutely Heaven-sent.

Thanks for deciding to support her, kestrel91316!

Hillary was right, years ago, when she talked about a "vast rightwing conspiracy." She was scoffed at, and blown off over it. But she was right-as-rain on that. The same "vast rightwing conspiracy" sure did a job on her, too, and it really does hurt my heart to see how effective they were. They're the biggest liars on the block - many multitudes of times more than they ever wrongly accused her of being.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 05:32 PM

41. Sorry for your loss. Glad to see you back here (nt)

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 05:42 PM

42. Welcome back. Sorry to hear about your loss. nt

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 05:49 PM

44. My condolences.

Baby steps. Bernie has encouraged quite a few in his (gasp) Socialist direction. It's a start, unless he and his supporters (of whom I was one) simply quit in future. You may not like Hillary, but Trump would be an unstable disaster. I admire Ralph Nader very much, but he's a strange man and I could never have seen him as president. Jill Stein? Please! I've never studied her until this election, but if voters find Hillary off putting...Stein seems smug and way off base in many of her belief/projections in areas of which I do have more knowledge (not bowing down because Stein's a freakin' physician). Libertarians? No chance. No matter how differently we might wish it to be: it's either Hillary or The Donald. Maybe the choice sucks, but here we are...a choice between an angry, unstable man with no political governing experience and Hillary: too much the status quo. Given it's the only choice this time around, voters need to please get realistic.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 05:52 PM

45. Glad to see you back, Cali!

Sorry for the loss of your friend.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 05:58 PM

49. I'm late 60's

 

and even with the myriad cultural problems associatedd with our democracy, I never thought I would see a time where America has fallen so low that the citizens of this nation could seriously contemplate installing this nazi into the most important political office in this land. America is in deep trouble of its own making. Letting the racial equality problem fester like a sore that wouldn't heal for generations is a major part of the rise of this nazi. Equality of wiomen is still an issue and part of the problem. The republican party and its voters looking more and more like 1933 Germany is really scary. A black man has been POTUS for 7+ years and now we have this nazi clown. Seriously!!!!!!

America has always been reactionary in its dealings with minority rights, Nixon and Atwater as the reactionaries of white conservative americans in the 70's to the small gain made in civil andd votings rights laws affecting POC let me know how american culture deals with its minorities.

And now this possibility. Angels weep.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 06:01 PM

51. I sincerely hope you are voting for Hillary.

Voting for Jill Stein is a vote wasted and the viability and functionality of our democracy requires all of us to make very serious choices this time. Decisions like this come from a very introspective place, which I would venture to say, we have all been there, at one time or another in our lives. After learning today that he asked three times about nuclear weapons and why we couldn't use them during his briefings by the former CIA director, is enough to make us all feel the very imminent danger that awaits us if he should ever become president.

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Response to Loki (Reply #51)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 06:09 PM

54. I sincerely hope that you aren't suggesting I'm lying.

 

because that's what it sounds like.

And I have no use for Stein. Never have. I think she's useless as regards those issues I care most about. Vermont has an actual progressive third party that is pragmatic, elects members to the state senate and state house as well as to statewide office.

I vote progressive when I have the chance, if the candidate is better than the dem.

For instance, I'm voting for this guy in the dem primary for lt. guv. He's a longtime member of the VT Progressive Party and is running as a P/D:



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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 06:04 PM

52. So sorry for your loss.

The good counsel of friends is invaluable. xo

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 06:09 PM

53. Welcome back

and so sorry for the loss of your friend.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 06:10 PM

55. Welcome back cali. Sorry for your loss.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 06:11 PM

56. "VT is a deep blue state and I wasn't worried about it"

 

Apathy will put tRump in office. I am glad you are going to vote for HRC, and hope too many people don't take this for granted.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 06:11 PM

57. I'm very sorry for the loss of your friend.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 06:13 PM

58. thank you i am glad you are back.

You are the first person who greeted me two years ago when I joined DU and I have enjoyed reading your OP's over the years even if I did not always agree with them. I am sorry about the loss of your friend.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 06:20 PM

59. My condolences, and welcome home.

 

You were missed.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 06:21 PM

60. *hugs to you, cali* nt

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 06:40 PM

61. Welcome back and

sincere condolences on the death of your friend!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 06:40 PM

62. So good to have you back!

DU has enough wise asses like me running around, already. Needs more cali!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 06:42 PM

63. I voted for Bernie in the Primary, and would have preferred it if he had won the nomination

but he didn't (Some can argue the reasons behind why he didn't, but it's been shown he would have lost even without any shenanigans).

And I am old-enough to remember when the die-hard liberals (Including a coworker who at every lunch break would remind us that she didn't "EatMeatBecauseOfAnimalRights" --all one word) sat out the 1988 election, because if it wasn't going to be Jesse Jackson she didn't care. And the Ralph Nader purists who drained enough votes from Gore to allow the Republicans on the Supreme Court to steal the election for Bush.

So, while it everyone's right to vote for whom they think is best, I will do my best to make sure that Trump (or any other Republican) doesn't get the White House. Because once the racists supporting Trump are done with the Muslims, the Hispanics, and the African Americans, they would be just as happy going after this Jew and his Puerto Rican wife.

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Response to MurrayDelph (Reply #63)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:22 PM

123. Thanks, MurrayDelph! Greatly appreciate your change of heart - AND your memory.

Seriously, the whole sorry Ralph Nader episode in Presidential election history should be enough, all by itself, to scare ANYBODY away from voting third party. I used to like Ralph Nader, up until his presence in that election tipped things close enough to bush/cheney to allow them to steal it.

I will never forgive him for that.

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Response to calimary (Reply #123)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 01:40 AM

175. That and his Alfred E Newman routine during and after the left a smoking hole

where our inauguration of President Gore should have been. Really helped out the planet with that one didn't you Ralph.

ASS.

I will hate the Green party for the rest of my life because of him.



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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 06:44 PM

64. Cali, my heart breaks to hear about the death of your wonderful friend

It is so hard to be left behind, isn't it? He sounds like an amazing person, and I am so sorry for your loss.

I also want you to know how glad I am that you've come back to DU, as I have really missed your voice here and your thoughtful and thought-provoking OP's.

I don't want to say much about JPR other than to say I lurked there for a while so I could keep up with a few of my favorite DU posters' thoughts who no longer cared to post at DU. Was pretty shocked at some of the ludicrous attacks I saw on your character and the character of others. I Stopped going there. I want to say your toughness and integrity always shine through.

Beautiful OP, thanks so much for posting. Thoughts are with you during these sad times.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #64)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:03 PM

75. thank you. How very kind.

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 06:52 PM

65. Welcome back

I've been mainly a lurker for the past few years, so you may not recognize my name.

Thank you for your eloquent post, your return to DU and the chuckle you gave me when you wrote that you had been called a "Hillbot."

I remember you as a passionate poster. It took a lot of grace to write what you did.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 06:57 PM

67. Glad to see you back Cali

I also joined JPR to support Bernie. Now I am here to oppose Trump. HC is the only one who can defeat him. I will still raise my voice when I think she is making bad choices, but I will support her in her battle against the GOP.

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #67)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:24 PM

124. Thanks, Generic Other!

So glad you came back here, and that you came back to support Hillary. She's gonna need YOU, too.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 07:09 PM

68. You know what, cali?

I was depressed when it became clear Bernie would lose. When I went to JPR, the Hillary hate was too much for me, and when I came here, the Bernie hate was almost as bad. So I took a few days off and watched the GOP convention. Then I really got depressed. Needless to say, at that point, I was ready for Hillary.
I have plenty of issues with Hillary. She wasn't my choice in 08 or now, but she's sane and competent and on my side, of that I have no doubt. We have a great party platform that she fully endorses. I think she's a better candidate because of Bernie, and I'm OK with Tim Kaine too, he's pretty squeaky clean, I like that.

I'm with her now, 100%, and defending her all the way. When the monster is put away, we can again raise our differences, and I'm sure we'll have many, but for now, we have only one enemy.

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #68)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:26 PM

125. That's so great, mountain grammy!

As a longtime Hillary supporter, I'm so glad you were able to make the switch. I, too, know she's sane an competent, and on my side. Thank you for being onboard 100%! We need you!

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #68)

Fri Aug 5, 2016, 05:49 AM

231. I'm farther left that Hillary, but I've been backing

her because, as you state so well, she is sane (not actually an issue in 2008, though), competent, and on our side. And, of course, that she is a woman is a nice plus.

Just wish that even one of the newscasts would point out that her favorability numbers were positive while she was a NY senator and SoS and that they only drop into negatives when she runs to be our first female POTUS. Understanding is good. Reaction without understanding is bad.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #231)

Fri Aug 5, 2016, 08:09 AM

235. Excellent point, and one I will use in the constant

defense of Hillary. I expect no objectivity from the media. They're so bought and paid for it's pathetic.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 07:13 PM

69. So glad you are back. I hope other good people return as well.

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 07:28 PM

70. You made mistakes

We didn't.

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Response to Cary (Reply #70)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:01 PM

74. I won't dignify your comment with a response. It's not worthy of one.

 

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Response to cali (Reply #74)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:09 PM

77. Why not?

There is no shame in making mistakes. You're human. We all make mistakes. Dignity has nothing to do with that.

But we don't all show humility. Nor are we all capable of contrition, or expiation. The point of making mistakes is to learn from them.

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Response to Cary (Reply #77)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:14 PM

79. because your post was brusque and self-congratulatory.

 

that simple. Quite unpleasant in the context of my op.

have a nice night.

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Response to cali (Reply #79)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:34 PM

87. Sez you

Your journey was not just predictable, it was predicted. I wasn't congratulating myself. You're not that important. I was making a point which is as lost on you as the obviousness of your mistakes.

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Response to Cary (Reply #87)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:39 PM

89. bless your heart.

 


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Response to cali (Reply #89)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:55 PM

97. Your lectures and backhanded Hillary Clinton insults falter

You were wrong, and you can't own that.

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Response to Cary (Reply #77)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:28 PM

127. Just a little brusque.

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Response to Cary (Reply #70)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:35 PM

88. Ugh. Not helpful, to put it charitably nt

 

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Response to Cary (Reply #70)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 11:44 PM

151. Yeah, it really sucks when someone displays an attitude that tarnishes a site.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 07:44 PM

71. Nice to see you back

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 07:52 PM

72. I'm still here, and I'm glad you are!

Here's hoping the Democratic Party and the Democratic Underground community can heal.

We need to win this one, all the way down to the local level. The Republican domination of Congress and our states has done damage that will take years, perhaps decades to repair.

And, I am sorry for your loss.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 07:55 PM

73. I'm back too.

Since the primary was over I have been over at the"other" site. I knew the rules and figured I'd just leave without fanfare. I won't go into details but I never thought I'd return.

This Gold Star Family who spoke at the Convention really opened my eyes. Drumpt''s reply and subsequent unraveling has made me realise I must do whatever I can to stop that monster from getting the keys to the Whitehouse. The best way to do this is to vote for the only person with a real chance to stop him.

I'm here reluctantly but that doesn't matter anymore. The ONLY thing that matters is stopping the mad man before he gets the Nuclear codes



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Response to sellitman (Reply #73)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:13 PM

78. Gee, that sounds familiar

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Response to Cary (Reply #78)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:45 PM

135. Not helpful and rude

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Response to sellitman (Reply #73)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 11:54 PM

154. Hey sellitman! Whether you're here reluctantly or not, GLAD TO HAVE YOU!!!

What really amazes me is this narrative that took hold throughout the primary season - that Trump just swept everybody else away. NOTHING seemed to stop him. Not the "credible" establishment GOPers with verifiable track records like jeb! and various Senators who've put in the time and paid various kinds of dues. Not his lacerating John McCain - not that I was any fan of John McCain, but c'mon! You DON'T diss his military service or his time as a POW. Not insulting an entire culture by calling them rapists and murderers. Not insulting a disabled guy with a really infantile impersonation, like a spoiled, poorly-raised, poorly-disciplined second-grader would do. NOTHING seemed capable of rocking his boat.

Until this quiet, unassuming, humble Muslim immigrant couple stepped out of complete obscurity and knifed him straight through the heart. And they didn't even use a knife. All they had was an inexpensive little pocket paperback copy of the Constitution. And they knocked him upside down and on his ass and, quite astonishingly, they've KEPT him there. Shit - this story has been a lead story for almost an entire week! Mr. and Mrs. Khan may singlehandedly have changed the course of this entire election. And of history.

I'm 63 years old. I've been watching political conventions closely since my early 20s. I thought I'd pretty much seen it all. But, so help me, I have NEVER witnessed ANYTHING like that.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:03 PM

76. All I cans say is

Welcome back Cali. I am sorry for your loss.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:16 PM

80. Glad you're back!

Your point of view is valuable here.

Sorry about your friend. Its always tough to deal with friends and relatives dying. Take care.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #80)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:31 PM

85. Thanks, Bob.

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:24 PM

81. My condolences. I've lost a colleague this week myself.

As far as the political push-me-pull-you memes that get thrown around here at DU during excitable times - hey, that's politics.
AFAIC, all is forgiven.

Now let's go kick some GOoPer ass.

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Response to DinahMoeHum (Reply #81)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:31 PM

86. I appreciate it and I'm sorry about your colleague.

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:24 PM

82. My condolences for your loss.

Glad to see you're back and on the Hillary train. Trump can't just lose, he has to be stomped into the ground come November.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:25 PM

83. I know people who are sick and may not...

...have many years left. They will not spend their time making a "statement" by voting for a third party candidate or staying home. I'm 100% for Hillary Clinton. She's a good person who will not allow the bigots to take over and "Make America Hate Again." She's probably the most investigated candidate in history - nobody has ever had to have every word and action investigated, and repeatedly. She could not say or do 1% of what Trump (or most anyone) has done, and survive.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:42 PM

90. Glad you changed your mind.

Thank you for that.

My condolences about the passing of your friend. You'll be speaking for him when you vote for Hillary this fall.

I've been a Hillary fan since 1992, when I discovered her during her husband's first campaign. I have a hard time understanding why there's so much hatred and distrust. I hope more people come to discover how much she brings to the table and how long she's fought for the interests of women and children - how much reason there is to vote FOR her instead of merely voting against Donald Trump.

In whichever way a vote for Hillary comes, I'll take it! I'm certainly not gonna look a gift horse in the mouth.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:47 PM

92. Hi cali. Glad you're back and glad you're on board.

I'm not holding my nose. I like Hillary a lot. But I really appreciate folks like you that might not but understand how bloody DIRE this whole unreal situation is.

So here's to ya.

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Response to nolabear (Reply #92)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:52 PM

93. thanks nola. I actually think Trump may finally be really melting down

 

but jeez, that guy has like a 100 political lives, so who knows?

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Response to cali (Reply #93)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 12:10 AM

159. Welcome back, Cali

I'm sorry for your loss. I read some at that other site and thought about joining for a while. I was so broken-hearted at Bernie's loss of the nomination. But I stayed here, mostly lurking like I do, and reading. And I've come to realize more than I ever did that Trump must go down; it's either him or the US. Maybe the world. The stakes have never been higher. It's no time to sit out the election.

Then I thought I might write in Bernie. You see I live in the blood red state of SC and I expect it to go to Trump, as it's gone to the Republican candidate since the Southern strategy began. Therefore, my vote is always merely symbolic. Well, my heart is with Bernie, but my symbolic vote will go to Hillary Clinton.

Just please, don't let the Orange One melt down just yet. He can do that after Hillary gives him a good trouncing on November 8. Run, Hillary, Run!!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:54 PM

96. We have to support Hilary because of tRump and more importantly to get the vote out ...

and start fixing Congress.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 08:57 PM

98. Happy you are back Cali

You are a very spirited contributor to this site

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 09:20 PM

101. in other words, you're part of the 45% or so of HC voters voting against Trump

 

I keep hoping that I'm able to vote for someone for that job sometime before I die, but time is running out...

do they like to play rough over there at jpr?

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Response to stupidicus (Reply #101)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 09:46 PM

110. It's... well, not really a support site for Bernie as it advertised itself.

 



All I'll say is that no matter the topic it always devolved back to how "evil" HRC is, and when Bernie endorsed Hillary, there was a lot of... backlash against him.

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Response to cali (Reply #110)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 11:01 PM

141. I followed a bunch of PUMAS to a supposedly pro Hillary forum in 2008 toward the end of the

primary. I quickly realized it was more anti-Obama than pro-Hillary. Many turned against her when she dropped out and endorsed him. The forum devolved into a Palin cheerleading site and the owner shut it down before the General Election because the inmates had taken over the asylum. Long story short...I know the feeling.

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Response to stupidicus (Reply #101)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 12:05 AM

157. I can't say I know that feeling, because I've never faced a situation where I truly did not

like either choice. There was always something(s) WAY more redeeming in the Democrat. I have been voting a long time. I have never found a republi-CON I felt I could support. Not ever.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 09:27 PM

103. Much respect headed your way. Glad you're back

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 09:36 PM

105. My deepest sympathy cali

 



You know my thoughts on l'affaire JPR. Wherever you land, I'm in your corner.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #105)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 11:04 PM

143. thank you, rider

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 09:37 PM

106. I hate seeing posts that claim that Hillary is awful. Please go back to JPR

 

I'm tired of the lies of 25 years of Republican propaganda being repeated as truth. Sick of it.

Hillary Clinton is one of the most qualified and decent people to ever run for President.

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Response to The Second Stone (Reply #106)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 09:51 PM

111. Where did you see that in my op?

 

I'm supporting her over Trump. If that's not enough for you, sorry, but you have no right to tell me what to do.

In other words, too bad for you. And I'm grateful that you appear to be in a very small minority regarding your sentiments toward me. Most folks here have graciously welcomed me back. And I'm grateful and humbled by that.

You want to rag on me, feel free. I'm not up for any silly squabbles at the moment.

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Response to cali (Reply #111)


Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 09:38 PM

108. I'm so sorry about the loss of your friend, cali.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 09:54 PM

113. uhhh

at the other site they called YOU a "hillbot"???? Jeebus. You're one of the most staunch Bernie supporters I remember seeing here.

Glad you're voting for Hillary! Perhaps, after more reading and conversation, you'll see there is more to her than what you thought.

Very sorry for your loss.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 09:58 PM

116. Very glad to see you on DU cali! Your son puts it very well indeed. Trump is a very special

 

case. I actually swore to oppose Trump in the 1980's. Literally. My friend made me raise my right hand in Midtown Manhattan and swear 'to always hate Donald Trump like a good New Yorker should'. I made that promise, NY was good to me and I have and will to anything necessary to thwart Trump, who must never ever be President of the United States.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #116)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:12 PM

121. Your presence cheers me. thanks.

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:04 PM

117. Went thru similar but when Bernie asked at convention, I had to out of respect for him.

No other reason. Never thought I'd be a Clinton voter but here I am. And now she's backtracking on TPP? It hurts.

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Response to George Eliot (Reply #117)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 12:13 AM

160. Can't say, about TPP. I have not heard any such thing but then again, it's kinda busy around

me at the moment.

But truly, there's so much more about her that I believe you could find yourself agreeing with. At least I'd hope so. I know it's hard, though. Particularly when one has one's heart rock-solid set in concrete on one specific thing and it doesn't materialize.

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Response to George Eliot (Reply #117)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 01:51 AM

176. Please don't spread untruths about the nominee, she isn't "backtracking" on TPP.

So you don't have to be hurt.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #176)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 11:38 PM

226. No, she's just going to "redo" some of it. Hahaha. Are you for TPP? Liz Warren is against it.

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Response to George Eliot (Reply #226)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 11:42 PM

227. Ha ha ha - why don't you show some proof of these lies? Are you against the nominee?

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Response to cali (Original post)


Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:09 PM

120. Hey cali

I'm sorry for your loss. Your friend is right, there has never been a candidate more worthy of hate and scorn than Donald Trump.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:27 PM

126. Welcome back. I'm pretty much where you are.

I'm all in for Hillary at this point despite my previous reservations because we simply cannot allow Trump to become the president. That's a potential extinction event; I've been hearing some terrifying things about how much power a president has to launch nukes. If there is anyone on earth who should not have the nuclear launch codes it's him. Once Trump is defeated, then we can work on furthering the progressive causes Bernie emphasized. Right now, though, we've just got to keep that guy far, far away from the White House. It currently looks like Trump steps on a new rake every day but we can't get complacent.

As to JPR - I signed up awhile back because I'd become disheartened at some of the stuff being thrown at Bernie supporters on DU, but it's become depressingly unreadable for obvious reasons, so I'm done there. Guess I'm a hillbot now, too.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #126)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 12:20 AM

163. Mighty glad you're with us!

Glad you're a Hillbot, too, TVO! I imagine that the more America sees what happens when we "let Donald be Donald," Hillary will look better and better, even to the remaining doubters. Seems like it kinda can't be helped!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:28 PM

128. k and r and welcome back. sorry to hear that there are some problems.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:28 PM

129. Welcome back! Hopefully we can all avert a Trump disaster in November.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:30 PM

130. I am glad you will vote cali. thank you.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:30 PM

131. Good to see you again.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:31 PM

132. Welcome back, Cali.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:34 PM

133. Pretty much in the same place

though I knew before the convention started that I'd be filling in the circle next to Hillary's name. Even as blue as Minnesota has been in presidential races I'm worried that too many people will decide it's "safe" to vote 3rd party here and that could lead to disaster.

Trump is a risk I'm not willing to take.

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Response to dflprincess (Reply #133)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 12:22 AM

164. Good point, dflprincess. REALLY good point.

Even with the Trump train lurching so far off the rails as we've seen in the last week, we still can't afford to take anything for granted. I swear - I see an occasional Jill Stein commercial and my face goes into an immediate grimace.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:40 PM

134. Welcome back Cali, sorry I haven't responded to your pm yet

 

it was such a nice letter anything I thought of writing in response seemed inadequate.

Again welcome back.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:47 PM

136. Glad you are back

so sorry for all your losses

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:50 PM

137. Sorry you went through that.

Never really understood it. I am glad you got some clarity.

I just have to respect everyone's decision on whatever they do for the Presidency. It does not matter who(or no one), as I am sure that most who have not been in line with the last two candidates standing from the beginning had to go through much soul searching and did not come to their choice lightly.

Some, have not decided what to do at all, and vacillate up till they find themselves on the voting booth or end up missing the polls.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:51 PM

138. I'm fairly new here, and I don't think we've crossed paths, but I am sorry to read about your loss.

I'm glad you're here and on board to win in November.

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Response to st17011864200074656 (Reply #138)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 02:00 AM

177. Jezus. I mean this in the best way possible; did a robot pick your username?

Seriously. I mean no offense - but WOW

It's different.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #177)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 04:01 AM

181. None taken. I thought someone might ask about it.

My username is a tribute to the ships of Star Trek, where the 'st' comes from. The rest are simply the registry numbers of the Enterprise, the Reliant, the Excelsior, and Voyager. I did forget the Defiant though, so it really should be st1701186420007420574656. I just thought it was a unique username.

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Response to st17011864200074656 (Reply #181)

Fri Aug 5, 2016, 06:13 AM

233. It is! Love it. Love word expander programs. :)

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 10:59 PM

139. right there with you...

my vote is less a vote for Hillary than it is a vote against trump.

I feel he'll probably implode long before the election, but if he's still around in some form come election day, hillary has my vote.

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Response to Javaman (Reply #139)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 12:24 AM

165. Thanks, Javaman.

We'll take it and be glad for it, whatever your intention! Hope you find a way to become a little more enthusiastic about it, although I know it's hard.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 11:01 PM

142. Not much to say

It just makes sense to vote HRC in this election.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 11:08 PM

145. Your son nailed it.

I may agree with Jill Stein on more issues than I do with Hillary, but Jill Stein is not part of an effective political organization. I will vote for Hillary without enthusiasm. I will vote against Trump with absolute conviction. I look forward to the day when the Democratic Party offers better candidates. I will be working toward that end after this election and before the next.

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Response to hay rick (Reply #145)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 12:26 AM

167. You and I do not agree on Jill Stein. But I hope you can be at peace with a vote for Hillary.

Even at their worst, seems to me ANY Democrat is better than a CON. Any day. They just see the world differently than we do, over on that side of the aisle. And unfortunately, they seem to see it all cockeyed.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 11:12 PM

146. Belated support.

Last night, I reactivated my account (a VERY early, sometimes vocal, member, then VORACIOUS lurker) in support of 1StrongBlackMan. Tonight, I stand with cali, another voice I feel to be an absolute necessity on this forum. Maybe you've squirmed, fumed, and chafed at her(?) comments, but I've never seen them as less than provocative, occasionally abrasive, and sometimes quite brilliant in argument. I state again that I feel that the progressive movement wants so badly to tell itself "JOB WELL DONE," that it is willing to ignore the very real struggles still confronting this nation and society. That members like 1SBM and cali (and others...!) passionately refuse to ignore and cease advocacy in confronting these issues inspires me, though it seems some would rather attack the messengers while ignoring the truth of their message. This advocacy is the precise reason I've lurked this site daily (hourly) for 15+ years. I posit that anyone working to silence these voices is a hindrance to true societal progress, and is ignorant to the very real threats confronting a just society. I truly have no idea what JPR is or means, but if cali finds them lacking, I welcome her(?) back with an embrace from a repentantly silent admirer and friend.
-OTL

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Response to OneTrueLeroy (Reply #146)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 12:28 AM

168. Welcome to DU, OneTrueLeroy!

Actually, looks like it's more accurate to say Welcome BACK to DU! I, too, have been here since 2001, but I'm afraid I'm a much bigger blabbermouth.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 11:20 PM

147. Welcome Back Cali

I know you don't know me. I've been here a long time, but I don't post very often (I get welcomed every time I post). But I've always liked your posts. I'm glad your back.

And I am very sorry for your loss.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 11:21 PM

148. Welcome back! People who have to label and divide are tiresome. And,

I'm sorry about the loss of your friend.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 11:39 PM

150. Been reading longer than a member

Glad you are back. Would go to the site I do not mention and see you trying to fight the good fight.

Always a Hillary supporter but you have my respect.

BTW I honeymooned in your state 25 years ago and am wanting to get back. Loved it and the people more.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Aug 3, 2016, 11:45 PM

152. DU is a better place for your presence, cali.



I'm very sorry for the loss of your friend.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 12:00 AM

155. I'm really sorry for your loss.

I'm a lifelong dem and a Bernie supporter. I live in California and had the same thought as you, blue state, doesn't matter.... After watching that shit show republicans called a convention. I knew that yes. I disagree with Secretary Clinton on many things but she is highly qualified and intelligent. Most capable. Compare that to the completely unhinged orangutan on the other side. He is completely out of his mind. My 15 year old has miles more self control than Orange Julius. He cannot be allowed nuclear codes.
I don't want the Secretary to just beat him, I want her to completely destroy him. Any third party vote is a vote for the orangutan and a betrayal of America.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 12:01 AM

156. Welcome back

My best friend died of a brain tumor three months ago, so I can relate to some extent. Grief is a very hard thing.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 12:05 AM

158. Cali, I'm so sorry for the loss of your friend.

I have the deepest of empathy for what you're going through right now, just know that.

I wasn't a DU Primary Warrior. I lost a close family member in mid December, and then another at the end of February. These events left my priorities, not to mention my perspectives, at a slightly different level than what many of the discussions/arguments here were. I understand your loss all too well.

Since I for the most part stayed out of GDP I missed a lot of the hurtful things which were said, but I've since seen the fallout in the form of hurt feelings anger from both sides. I then saw your post here where you said you were leaving, and I assumed it was more of a break to collect yourself than an actual break from the site. Keeping in mind my perspective was from your GD posts it seemed understandable, since it appears the primaries were deeply emotional and even painful for many, many people here.

Then, not too long ago (relatively speaking) their was a post about that site* here and I followed the links. I was flabbergasted by what some** people I'd thought I'd known for the past few years were saying. A shy handful of the names didn't surprise me, I'd seen them exhibit signs of what I worried might be personality disorders (I'm not being mean, it's a personal thing. I grew up with such and avoid it as an adult as a result. Even if it's just a possibility.) in the past, and had ceased to engage them here long ago. You, though, shocked me when I saw your name there. Then I looked closer at your posts.

The ones I saw from you were you trying to be sensible to my eyes, and being attacked by several for your efforts. I was surprised to see you there, but glad you'd not been indoctrinated into the extremist fold of "damn the world to hell" thinking I was reading that day. What I'm trying to say is; you didn't seem to belong there. I'm glad you're back, your vote IS needed, and thank you for understanding that fact. I'm just terrible at expressing myself in written words, my apologies for dragging it out as I did.


*I knew JackpineRadical here, and knew of his previous site, but not this new one.

**Not every person there who I recognized that day was engaging in speech which was painful to witness, e.g. cali.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 12:19 AM

162. No one could have predicted the GOP base would skip over political brands

 

for Trump. They finally have what they want, a neurotic plutocrat that doesn't give a fuck about anyone but himself.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 12:30 AM

169. Welcome back!

I am glad you decided to come back. Yours is a much needed voice, especially now. I say this as someone who doesn't always see eye to eye with you, but certainly respect your determination, knowledge, and passion. You are also one of those rare souls who goes out of her way to condemn anti-Semitism, no matter where or what form it takes; this Jew appreciates it.

I find myself in a similar situation, but I jumped on the "I will vote Clinton" a while ago as I see it the only choice. Given that the RNC platform is the most anti-LGBT in history, I cannot take the chance of that megalomaniac getting anywhere near the White House. There is also the issue of the Supreme Court Justices, which in the next four years, we could see as many as four exit the stage; just one, which is still pending, could be enough to tip the balance in a way that would devastate my life and the lives of millions of LGBT people. I know you are an ally to us, so add that to your repertoire of reasons because, in your case, defense of LGBT civil rights is a priority for you.

Sanders' candidacy made a profound difference in the lives of millions, mine included. His movement must proceed. It may be, eight years down the line, before we see the end of a two party system, but until that happens, if it happens, this election, in my mind, represents a literal choice between forces of good and evil and I don't use that lightly.

Finally and most importantly, my sympathies for your recent losses. It is never easy to lose people. Stay strong.



BTA

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 12:40 AM

170. I've made the same decision.

I understand how one's principles make a vote for Hillary hard to stomach, but surely when considering the larger picture, those same principles will kick in and compel any and all action that might prevent Trump from becoming POTUS.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 01:04 AM

172. I'm sorry for your loss Cali. Welcome home to your disfunctional family.

We did a little remodeling while you were out. Everybody likes a working stove but some of the elements were prone to catching fire and threatening to burn the whole house down, so Skinner helped us with some updates. The thresholds are a little lower, but the whole space feels lighter now, and by and large, the greatest majority of the family agrees it's way more comfortable, and easier to move ahead with the work we need to do - beating that tangerine colored man-baby like a really bad rug.



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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 01:33 AM

174. If he doesn't drop out before the election

He would surely drop out A long time before the end of A full term of office, if he were to win.

Being president is very hard work. Much too hard for Donald. If he doesn't understand that he should just ask George W. Bush

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 02:11 AM

179. I'm glad you're back.

After the primary it felt like DU had lost too many good people who left for some reason or another. I'd like to see it come back together a bit, even if not everybody gets along all the time.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 03:17 AM

180. Right there with you, cali.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Trump - and all the Republicans - must be stopped in their tracks. We have to defeat them overwhelmingly in November if we're ever to make real progress towards Bernie's (and our) vision for The People, the nation, and the planet.

I've trusted Bernie throughout the primary campaign and I continue to trust his judgment, so I will follow his lead and vote for Hillary. Those who now reject his direction, yet insist they're loyal to his vision, are deluding themselves and hurting us all.

Also, I'm very, very sorry for your latest loss, especially so soon after the others.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 04:33 AM

184. Sorry for your loss.

I am not where you are yet, but agree that Trump must be stopped at all costs.

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Response to cali (Original post)


Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 05:06 AM

186. You annoy the heck out of me, but you are not stupid

I figured you would come around eventually.

Many intelligent and staunch progressives have never been more excited or happy to vote for Hillary Clinton.

Also:
I wish you well and I'm sorry for your loss. It's tough sometimes.

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Response to OKNancy (Reply #186)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 01:25 PM

214. OK.

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 05:26 AM

188. hey! glad you're back. I strolled through, even applied, but my acceptance didn't work, emailwise

 

haven't been back......sounds very crazed

you and your son share my thoughts almost exactly, with the difference being your ability to express yours much more adeptly

I've hated that prick ever since the first Doonesbury cartoons, I guess. then the SPY mags....I still have about 30 of them from the 90s. he was just about their favorite target (along with the Clintons!)

that tony Schwartz interview in the NYer was stunning, wasn't it? he's been on tv a few times, and lots of things on youtube, including appearances in the banned Trump doc

here's a clip....found the whole thing on my ipad....can't find it on laptop youtube



there look to be five parts on that page, if you look to the left, depending on your config

a young Schwartz appears at about 2:10

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 07:01 AM

191. good on you

k&r

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 07:38 AM

192. Welcome back!!! nt

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 07:43 AM

194. Welcome to the Party. nt

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 08:40 AM

195. I got there, too.

Wonderful post - and I happen to finally believe Hillary will be a terrific President.

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Response to raven mad (Reply #195)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 10:20 AM

198. All I care about now is keeping that man baby as far from the oval as possible

 

And then I'm willing to see what happens. I'll be thrilled if she turns out to be a good president. And by that I mean, adhering to those principles in the Democratic Party Platform.

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Response to cali (Reply #198)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 10:21 AM

199. cali - agreed 150%

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 10:12 AM

197. Welcome back, Cali! I saw....

 

The drubbing you took at JPR... people calling you a Hillarybot, etc.

I know this has been a journey for you, and I understand it's still not completely a perfect fit for you, but welcome! I think you are an extremely thoughtful poster, even when I disagree.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 10:33 AM

202. More has been revealed

More has been revealed about Trump, more is revealed every day. Finding out that he really is salivating to use nuclear weapons left me with a chill I hadn't felt since "the wall" came down (I was in college then). I can't help but wonder if the SOB would use our nukes on us and just save Putin the trouble?

Nothing about your voting decisions has been bad, before deciding to vote for Hillary and now. There has been a lot more information coming out and it's not just bluster to excite his angry crowds.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 11:02 AM

204. Similar thought process but one Key Point to emphasize

I have pretty much made the same decision. The one problem is that as shown in this thread, the democratic party and many of the individuals will lose the fact that for many of us "there's never been a candidate I wanted to vote for less than Hillary".

I am pretty sure that the democratic party will take the wrong message from a Hillary win with respect to future candidates. I think that Hillary as an ambitious politician is very lucky her opponent is Trump because I think she will pull a lot of Anti-trump votes. If the GOP had put up a sane candidate, I think that candidate would get many anti-Hillary votes. She would pull only the democratic base without that anti trump vote.

With respect to DU and JPR. I have been reading DU for many years (long before I even became a member) and have enjoyed the site. JPR is not a site for me given my choice which is the same as yours.

However, I also am much less interested in DU now as well and very little interest in posting because there is not really good truth going on here with respect to Hillary purely for the political reason that we need to make sure Trump is not president. Some DUers like you I have always enjoyed reading and gotten value from posts but finding fewer of the authors that posted such interesting posts. It feels more like a cheer leading site although for the right side in this singularly unusual election. This to me is not what DU represented in the past.

Anyway, thank you again for a post that I wanted to read here.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 11:39 AM

205. inspiring - thanks

You know what? Your post and conclusions after actually thinking about is is worth a million in terms of inspiration vs all the snark from Clinton supporters rolling their eyes.

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Response to Locrian (Reply #205)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 05:00 PM

219. "all the snark from Clinton supporters rolling their eyes"? Forget where you are?

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Response to betsuni (Reply #219)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 05:18 PM

221. I rest my case - n/t

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 11:40 AM

206. Hope you're OK...

sounds like a lot of experience too soon.

'So it goes.'

Your views on voting for HRC seem to hit home.
I've always voted Dem, I'm 65.
I've seen the changes to the party and like others are not happy
in the direction. No one should be.

Strange, in other places, people have called me a Hillbot as well.

Isn't the world a crazy place?

Welcome back, you were missed.

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Response to freebrew (Reply #206)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 01:11 PM

211. The world is just a mass of paradoxes. And that does make it a crazy place

 

Thank you so for your kind words.

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Response to freebrew (Reply #206)

Fri Aug 5, 2016, 06:36 AM

234. There was a direction change.

If you've been voting you've been part of it. Maybe keep watching, or just wait for the history books...

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #234)

Fri Aug 5, 2016, 10:54 AM

236. Part of it?

No, a victim of it, more likely.
It's not like us 'ordinary' folk have much input as to who actually makes it on the ballot.
So, basically, we've been blackmailed into voting for the lessor of the evils
in many...of the last several elections.

Our owners tell us what choices we have.

History is what the authors tell us it is.

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Response to freebrew (Reply #236)

Fri Aug 5, 2016, 11:07 AM

237. No, history is what it is, extremely complex

and multifaceted, never completely understood, but always what it is. So you didn't vote, voted regressively, or voted progressively only accidentally.

You can still read about it and learn what should be appreciated by one of your ideology. If we don't recognize what's good when it's good, we can't get behind it and we won't fight to save it or push for more, will we?

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #237)

Fri Aug 5, 2016, 11:16 AM

238. As I stated...

I've always voted D. Even when I had to hold my nose to do it.(Ike Skelton for one).

No one knows what history is unless they've lived it.
Otherwise, you're taking the word of the victors.

I am a history student. Aren't we all?

And you know my ideology?

Thanks, have a pleasant day.

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Response to freebrew (Reply #238)

Fri Aug 5, 2016, 11:40 AM

239. Now you're saying only those who live history know it.

Yet, in common with so many who don't understand that change always begets more change, you apparently failed to watch for and missed signs that that we are in the middle of a direction change.

It's normal for all of us to be unable to understand what's happening when we're in the middle of it, but I've noticed a number of people here view the world through a prism of victimization ("victors" now?) and helplessness, and of course the inevitable resulting hopelessness. Nothing new there, but very regrettable.

All I can suggest is accepting that some are far better students than others and considering their findings and theories. An almost endless supply of books that are informative and often enlightening is available on Amazon (yes, another "victor," but we can be victors too) for a dollar or less plus $3.99 shipping.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 12:15 PM

207. It's called safety in numbers

Don't worry, nobody will blame you specifically if the world falls apart

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 12:56 PM

209. Bless you-- you've long been one of my favorites here!

 

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Reply #209)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 01:13 PM

212. Thank you so much, FW. (my what a lot emoticon thingies)

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 02:41 PM

215. I'm with you cali

I also joined JPR as a big time Bernie supporter. I only posted one op and mostly just lurked.

Frankly sometimes I feel like I am caught in between. I STILL think Bernie was a once in a generation candidate. Hillary has made a few bad choices, and i still don't trust her to change much on Wall street. But she is no more a corporate caterer than Obama, she has evolved on many social issues, and has adopted some of Bernies platform. So I am ok with that.

I still believe it would have been such a transformative moment in American history to have had Bernie in the WH but it's not going to happen. That doesn't mean his political revolution has stalled though. I'm sure there may be times ahead when Hillary may not live up to her promises to his supporters and there may be raucous times ahead in DU.

But I simply can't get behind the scorched earth ideas of those at JPR. They would seem to prefer aTrump disaster, from which miraculously will arise a new liberal era from the ashes.

That's like playing with fire with a nuclear button.
I was also quite taken with her acceptance speech.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 05:31 PM

222. Hi Cali - so sorry about your friend

The way Trump has been, we won't have to worry much about him. I have big concerns about Hillary, but at least with her, Bernie supporters should have a voice and a platform we can try to hold her to. With Trump, we would get a nut who treats the election like a reality show. Stein really reflects my views, but I am looking at the big picture here. Stein can't be elected this time.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2016, 07:00 PM

223. Welcome back, Cali,

And I'm so sorry about your friend. I've been there recently and completely understand how it makes you re-think things, re-organize your goals and wants.

We Definetly ALL need to hang together to defeat Trump. Life as we all know it (especially all minorities) would never be the same.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Aug 5, 2016, 12:00 AM

228. Glad you are back.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Aug 5, 2016, 05:27 AM

230. If my mom would register to vote for the first time in almost 30 years...

...to vote for Clinton, I know a lot of Clinton detractors are going to, as well.

My mom, an uber conservative.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Aug 5, 2016, 11:48 AM

241. Welcome back

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 02:53 PM

242. And welcome to my ignore list.

 

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