2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWasserman Schultz poised to beat Sanders-backed challenger
PoliticoThe fallout from the embarrassing Democratic National Committee email leak last month was swift and severe, costing Wasserman Schultz her chairmanship on the eve of the party's national convention after five years in that job. Theres quite a ways between that, however, and losing reelection: A fixture of South Florida politics for nearly a quarter-century, Wasserman Schultz remains the prohibitive favorite to beat Tim Canova and return to the House for a seventh term, according to recent polling and Florida political operatives.
As much as I would like to say otherwise, I think his chances are pretty slim, said Ben Pollara, a Democratic political consultant who once worked for Wasserman Schultz but is now a critic.
I think on the basis of demographics, it doesnt matter who the challenger is or what the issues are, barring something like an indictment, its her district, he said. Pollara manages United for Care, a group backing the medical marijuana initiative that Wasserman Schultz has fought against.
Personally, I think too much of Canova's campaign, and the drive of his out-of-State contributors was her role as DNC Chair, which I don't think the average district voter cared about.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Response to NurseJackie (Reply #1)
Post removed
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)and the status quo on drug policy.
All of those positions serve only the 1%.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Other than the fact that she was for HRC, what exactly do you like about her, and what could make up for all of those reactionary policy stands she takes?
It's not as if she's on the side of the 99% to any real degree.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)It will be good to have an experienced winner in congress to help move Hillary's plans and policies forward.
You guys just have to face it, sometimes the "best" and purest candidate isn't always the one that can win the election and help to move (or keep) the balance of power in our favor. Sometimes you have to be strategic instead of emotional. That's always been one of your shortcomings and we saw how that turned out during the primaries. You'd think you'd learn from mistakes. (And by "you" I mean "you all" collectively.)
We'll see how things turn out when the voters finally get to have their say.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Other than guns and choice, she doesn't fight for our side on most issues.
And there's no excuse for any Dem to still support the war on drugs. Her district isn't full of far-right law and order types, and anybody there who is like that is going to vote GOP no matter what.
We never serve progressive goals by choosing the least-progressive candidate as Democratic nominee. 1976 and 1992 prove this.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)She's the one that the majority of her constituents want, and obviously she'll fare pretty well in the general. Again, the purest candidate isn't always the one who can win.
Strategy vs emotion. I'll give the edge to strategy and being practical.
All these hand-wringers and purity-test worry-warts are all the same. Sometimes the ACTUAL WIN is more important than the "warm afterglow" knowing that you picked the purest candidate but losing anyway.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)or supporters of private prisons.
There are very few seats anywhere now where we have to settle for someone who is mixed on the issues.
None where we have to get the support of the payday usury industry.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Pity.
Besides, everyone knows that DWS is just a convenient punching bag for Hillary Haters.
You guys crack me up!
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)We won the argument on the issues and the platform is a lot better than it would have been if HRC had been coronated.
Those victories on platform language are the reason the Green vote is as inconsequentally low as it is. You should therefore be grateful that the Sanders campaign happened.
It's not about "purity", it's about defending principle and this party doesn't need to water things down to win. None of us have made a big deal about nothing on the issues.
In fact, if we HAD put the specific "no TPP" language in the platform, we'd probably be twenty points up by now because we'd be breaking even among working-class whites(and doing so without betraying any of the issues you prioritize and that I join you in supporting).
It's only the centrist planks on economics that keep Drumpf within striking difference.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... undeservedly.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)reveal the strength of desire among DEMOCRATS, ESPECIALLY LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, for stronger progressive solutions. No one suspected it was that strong, not even political scientists deciding what questions to ask on studies of what people wanted, so Sanders' candidacy performed a great service for the entire nation.
HOWEVER,
* all liberal Democrats are progressive, and no doubt even some of our conservative Democrats,
* the vast majority of Sanders' supporters are/were liberal Democrats, and
* to credit only the far left with the progressivism of the Democratic platform and of Hillary Clinton is just plain unrealistic.
It's a shame this isn't appreciated by quite all because we are winding up to achieve really significant goals through use of progressive government actions. It's time to be very hopeful and very grateful to each other.
Response to NurseJackie (Reply #81)
Post removed
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... for people who still have "issues" with Hillary but who daren't express their honest and innermost regrets about her.
Response to NurseJackie (Reply #162)
John Poet This message was self-deleted by its author.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Keep punching. Get it all out of your system. DWS can take it.
MADem
(135,425 posts)People in her district like her, but most importantly, HER PEERS IN THE HOUSE like her.
They really don't give two figs about what someone from some other state might think--they find her effective.
After all this brouhaha fades, and "Waaaah DWS" is as distant a memory as "Occupy Wall Street" (remember that? Camping on the frozen ground, pooping in plastic bags, fighting with the police over temporary kitchens....politicians and public officials rolling their eyes and chuckling indulgently? The only effective demonstrations coordinated by tough, hairy union guys who went home to their soft beds every night? Demonstrations routinely disrupted by hate-filled Black Bloc anarchists and nut-job Paulbots? THAT OWS? LOL!*) I think it's onward and upward for a very tough and very smart female, Jewish politician who makes no apologies or excuses for who she is, how she feels and what she cares about. I may not agree with her on every line item, but she understands the trajectory and she's capable of tacking to keep the boat sailing forward.
*Sidebar: I was in a parking lot yesterday, and I passed by a fancy black Lexus with a "We are the 99%" bumper sticker. I wasn't sure if it was a snarking asshole or someone completely unaware of the concept....or maybe a clueless urban camper!
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)You explained everything perfectly. She's just the convenient enemy of the month. And Jill Stein is the convenient victim of the month.
The folks who blindly and irrationally "hate" DWS (among them many stealthy Hillary haters, I presume) appear to be dealing with some sort of issues that aren't yet resolved.
If you carefully read their words, sometimes the truth is inadvertently revealed. Other times you have to know someone's posting history (both here and "abroad" and it's easier to read between the lines and to understand their motivation as well as their true meaning and intent.
Ultimately, we need to all come together and get on-board and on the same page to make sure that Hillary wins, and that we take as many seats as possible in the House and Senate.
hollowdweller
(4,229 posts)Some of us may hate what they stand for but their constituents make the decision.
Bill USA
(6,436 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Response to NurseJackie (Reply #76)
Post removed
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Nobody here is an intruder.
As to progressives, we've actually won a fair amount of the time.
Not sure why you think being like this helps HRC.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)There are many intruders here ... I'm not blind and I'm not stupid. Are Jill Stein voters progressives too?
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Stein is dead in the water and the best way to keep her that way is to make a positive case to former Sanders supporters that his campaign made a difference. Doing that is going to be far more effective than screaming "Stein is working with Trump".
And you should want people who are working to win over the tiny number of former Sanders people who aren't yet backing our ticket to be effective in doing so-not treating us as if we can't be trusted.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Regardless, the Bobs have made very clear their intentions. I'll take them at their word. In my opinion, it's probably best for the campaign to simply write off the unappeasable and perpetual malcontents, and instead, to put their main focus on GOTV efforts. That's going to be much more productive.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And I'll thank you never to question my loyalties again.
And denouncing Stein isn't going to impress anyone near the center at all. Besides which, at this point, we've got everyone in the middle of the road that we CAN get...and we've won them without tacking right.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Tack-right, tack-left, there's an ideal SWEET SPOT that's perfectly balanced to optimize the maximum number of votes. I'm all in favor of Hillary and our party finding that spot. If it "loses" the support of a few hypersensitive, tightly-wound Jill defenders, but gains hundreds more from the center and center-right, well... that's fine with me.
You guys can just keep bashing on DWS as a convenient backdoor and under-the-radar roundabout proxy. Get it out of your system now. The weather is starting to warm up and the ice is getting thinner.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)at this point in the race.
The way to win "centrist" votes is(as HRC manages to brilliantly)to present practical solutions and look competent. You don't win them by saying "I hate the left more than the right, and the Sixties, the Rainbow Coalition, and Occupy were bullshit". Nobody out there is looking for this party to tell the left to go to hell. Left ideas are popular and inspire enthusiasm.
Maybe you hate us(what did the left ever do to you, personally?), but we aren't your enemies.
We can't ever go back to Nineties politics. That was a dead zone.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)And THE HILL agrees with him--so maybe you should recalibrate your POV on this matter....?
Trump: A Vote For Jill Stein Helps Me
July 28, 2016 by Michael Stone 31 Comments
Donald Trump supports Jill Stein, says a vote for the Green Party will help him win the election.
On the campaign trail Wednesday Trump praised Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein, saying he would be happy if people voted for the Green Party candidate for president because it would draw votes away from Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.
During a rally in Toledo, Ohio, Trump said:
I think a vote for Stein would be good thats the Green Party Because I figure anyone voting for Stein is gonna be for Hillary. So I think vote for Stein is fine.The Hill notes that Trump is correct, and that a vote for Stein does amount to a vote for Trump. They point to the 2000 presidential election, when Democrat Al Gore lost to Republican George W. Bush in a very close race, which was at least partially because Gore lost many liberal votes to Ralph Nader.
- See more at: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2016/07/trump-a-vote-for-jill-stein-helps-me/#sthash.jARcLDhE.dpuf
KMOD
(7,906 posts)Hillary Clinton has been progressive, liberal, left, however you want to define it, her entire career.
You can not name another Democrat who has done more good than she has.
True liberals, or true progressives, or however you wish to define them, back Hillary Clinton and we back her strongly.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)This is not about the primaries. We're past that now.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Nothing I've posted in this thread is hostile to HRC. I accept that she's the nominee and have started several threads working to persuade former Sanders supporters to back the Clinton/Kaine ticket.
Maru Kitteh
(28,342 posts)We really ARE stronger together!
I'm excited about the progressive platform Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton constructed together and even more excited that she is doubling down on higher minimum wage and single-payer option for all!
I'm also happy that SBS is working to get progressive Dems elected across the country, especially in areas that were red. Makes me all happy inside.
GO DEMS!
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Ahh, the predictable "Who me?" moment. A very carefully and precisely worded defense that's matched only by the precision of attacks and smears on DWS. But I can see what this is about, and what DWS represents to you.
Well, at least you haven't been one of those horrid little snakes who post things about how Jill Stein has a lot of valid and valuable ideas that could make the Democratic party better if only we'd be smart enough to adopt them... or that we should stop being critical of Jill Stein because we need her supporters ... blah blah blah.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Some of us happen to support the principles of the Democratic party but also look beyond the "Go Team Go" mentality, and look at what the "game" is all about, and the actual stakes involved.
You may now post one of your sassy, dismissive gifs.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Victory BEFORE vanity!
Go, Hillary! Beat Trump!
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)BTW, what is so horrible about adopting ideas from parties to our left? That's basically where we got everything in the New Deal...none of those ideas were adopted by centrists.
The issue here is Stein splitting the vote...not the notion that Stein's supposed principles are evil.
Bashing the Greens is never going to gain us votes in the center. Nobody is going to swing to us if only HRC goes "Sistah Souljah" on the independent left.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)So, y'all just keep on with the hate hate hate of DWS. She'll just shake it off!
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I have no feelings one way or the other about DWS as a person, and her defeat wouldn't harm HRC's chances in the fall in the slightest. ANY Dem can win that district.
People are looking for bigger change. That's why HRC is running on a significantly different platform than in '08(and why she'd be doing even better if we had made it clear in the platform that TPP will not happen if HRC is elected). This is not a bland centrist era.
And we aren't going to BECOME the Greens, but embracing at least some of their ideas(most of which they didn't invent)isn't a bad thing.
And we don't need DWS to be renominated to win centrist votes for HRC.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)No we're not, despite your efforts, thankfully. The reason they're a separate and fringe party is because they glom on to the most extreme ideas that have already been rejected by our party, and because of their "no compromise ever" attitude. Why weaken our party by becoming as kooky as the lunatic fringe?
They are a gadfly party. Nothing but trouble. They're dangerous. Fuck them, fuck their supporters and fuck their defenders and admirers.
When did I say that, Mr. Strawman? We need DWS in congress. Not some newbie.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)If HRC wins, she's just going to appoint DWS to Congress, so re-nominating her is actually pointless. If Trump wins, it doesn't MATTER who's in Congress, because then we'll be organizing an antifascist resistance movement rather than a political party-normal politics will no longer exist in that situation.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Demsrule86
(68,637 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)We don't have to nominate a drug warrior who loves payday usury and private prisons to hold it.
Demsrule86
(68,637 posts)Why take the risk and why do you even care? Come one, we all know that this hatred of DWS is primary related...and the primary is over.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)If HRC wins(as she almost certainly will), HRC will appoint her to some position(hopefully not drug czar) and there will have to be a special election to fill the seat anyway.
Given that, is there really any point to re-nominating DWS?
It's not "hatred"...it's about legitimate disagreements with DWS over the unnecessarily right-wing positions she takes on many major issues(most of them, in fact, other than guns and choice...not that those aren't important, but they aren't worth conservatism on other major issues). Also, she has hurt the Democratic Party in Florida by refusing to campaign for the Democratic candidates in winnable seats currently held by Republicans.
And I support Tim Canova for positive reasons...because I think he is much more progressive, because it is a way to carry forward the values Sanders people fought for and still fight for(I assume you'll accept that as a legitimate objective), and because, for myself, I find it a wonderfully good sign to see a progressive politician of Cuban exile ancestry rising in Florida politics. It's a wonderful thing when someone like that emerges from any historically right wing community(As a person whose family moved from Tennessee to Oregon in 1914, I'd say the same thing about progressive white Southern politicians if they started appearing in any significant numbers).
So you've got me wrong. I support HRC AND I support Tim. A lot of people can say the same.
Demsrule86
(68,637 posts)She is too controversial. I know little about Canova good or bad. In general, the candidate must be right for the district. If you have an incumbent who can win...I am not in favor of primarying that person unless there is a very good reason.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)n/t.
Demsrule86
(68,637 posts)BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)Try to deny you wrote that now. I need a good laugh.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)It doesn't mean I hate HRC. And I support HRC now. It's just that she wasn't entitled to an uncontested nomination and nothing would be better if she'd won THAT way. HRC is a stronger candidate because of the way the primaries played out and is doing much better than she otherwise would have been in the polls.
Why do you seem to be fixated on discrediting me personally? I've done nothing to you. You have no reason to feel hostility towards me.
I'm just as loyal to the Democratic ticket as you are.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)And I'm tired of it, so while I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt before, now you're going on Ignore.
Goodbye, HRC hater.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Tell that to the parents of someone who is sitting in a private prison because he got busted for smoking a reefer.
This is real life, not some reality game show.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)But it appears that she pleases enough voters to remain in office.
Keep punching at DWS if it makes you feel better ... she can take it.
skylucy
(3,740 posts)Response to NurseJackie (Reply #1)
Post removed
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)I doubt either one would want to associate so closely with a "fucking traitor" (as you call her.) So, that makes me question whether your judgement is based on strategy and reason, or just emotion and anger and an inability to move on, and finding comfort in holding grudges.
In any case, it really doesn't matter one way or the other. Hillary is our nominee, and I'm sure that DWS doesn't mind being a punching bag. She can take the hostility, hate and anger that's directed toward her.
lamp_shade
(14,841 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,809 posts)Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)geardaddy
(24,931 posts)Sorceress
(309 posts)scscholar
(2,902 posts)Wilms
(26,795 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)You're not a Democrat if you support payday usury, the status quo on the drug war, and continued mass federal subsidies for private prisons.
Even in Florida, a Democrat doesn't ever need to sound like she agrees with Horatio Caine on anything.
Demsrule86
(68,637 posts)She did no such thing and the primary is over...time to move on...who cares about a congressional seat in Florida except for the overall dem numbers...I live in Ohio and I don't...I do feel she was treated unfairly.
MadBadger
(24,089 posts)Mika
(17,751 posts)Cannot forgive DWS for not supporting Democratic campaigns against Florida republicans in her past and present.
Demsrule86
(68,637 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,371 posts)DWS. But the anti-DWS crap was WAY OTT even here on DU, IMO. It even contributed to my sending her some $$$ because it really pissed me off.
She has represented her district well and those voters will likely re-elect her, despite her - mostly - out-of-state detractors.
Tim Canova may be a decent guy and a good candidate. All kudos to him for running. But it would have been better for him to be able to run in a district where the seat is currently held by a GOPer. Where we really need good Dems in 2016 and in the future is as challengers for GOP seats, NOT for safe Dem seats.
Well said.
Grassy Knoll
(10,118 posts)misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)defeat of the GOP. In this election he may have indeed unseated a Repub considering their currently fraying Party.
would have been better for him to be able to run in a district where the seat is currently held by a GOPer. Where we really need good Dems in 2016[/i]
Tarheel_Dem
(31,237 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Last edited Thu Aug 11, 2016, 08:07 PM - Edit history (1)
She's right-wing in a progressive district. That district doesn't NEED someone who still supports the failed drug war, who still defends payday usury, who still defends private prison subsidies.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)Sorry Ken, but your word is simply not enough.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I'll find a damn link, but you know I'm not lying.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)By all means, prove me wrong.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)plot(a claim that is a variant on the "outside agitators" canard aimed at every people's movement that ever happened anywhere).
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)and now you can't prove it.
In other words, the same thing you always do.
Find that link yet? Still waiting.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)(I'll find more links later).
This shows that DWS had 128 fewer in-state donors than Canova (though her in-state donors gave more, being wealthier and thus more corrupt and self-interested).
And out of state donors are only an issue if they make big donations that can distort the process). It's no big deal when people send you twenty or thirty bucks from somewhere else. That's just legitimate democratic participation. It's no different than thousands of college kids from all over the country going to New Hampshire or Wisconsin or Oregon to work for Eugene McCarthy in 1968.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)2nd paragraph:
And then there's this, towards the bottom:
Among donors of $200 or more, Canova's top five zip codes are Park Slope, Brooklyn; Manhattan's Upper West Side; Princeton, New Jersey; Malibu, California; and Key Largo, Florida.
Sorry, Ken.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)BOTH of them get more donations out of state than in-state, therefore where the donations come from doesn't matter.
Tiny out-of-state donors are not illegitimate and don't discredit a candidate.
And most in-state DWS donors are rich people. Democrats shouldn't try to appeal to the wealthy.
It's a badge of honor to have fewer big donors and more small ones.
Big donors are always a sign of corruption
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)The point is, if DWS has fewer in-state donors than Tim, it means they are BOTH getting most of the money from out of state and that there is no issue here.
I got it wrong on one trivially small detail, I'll concede that point. And I corrected the post on that one small detail.
No intentional false claim, just a minor and rectified mistake.
LuvLoogie
(7,021 posts)"Democrats shouldn't try to appeal to the wealthy.
It's a badge of honor to have fewer big donors and more small ones.
Big donors are always a sign of corruption"
That statement really borders on the maudlin.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Seeking big donors always means watering down our principles. It serves no greater good. We cam win on enthusiam and people power.
think
(11,641 posts)DemonGoddess
(4,640 posts)onehandle
(51,122 posts)Because of the influence of out of district money. No matter where he's actually from.
They know Wasserman Schultz from her high visibility and success actually in the district.
Now, thanks to people who wanted her out of the DNC, she has time to win this easily.
BlueMTexpat
(15,371 posts)It's been a great example of unintended consequences.
Glamrock
(11,802 posts)I'm fine with the "unintended consequences".
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Tim getting out of state support.
Why defend someone who is right wing on the drug war, on private prisons, on payday usury and on trade policy?
It's not a conservative district.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)Tim getting out of state support.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)And how 'outsiders' are trying to oust their present Representative.
This is what friends have told me from that area.
Additionally, Hillary is very, very popular there, and so is Debbie.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)It's about DWS on her merits.
She's way too far to the right to be representing a safe Democratic seat.
think
(11,641 posts)House relationships.
How does that help the Democrats in any fashion?
Mika
(17,751 posts)And by not campaigning nor supporting Dem opponents of these Fla GOPers she is aiding and abetting them by default.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,190 posts)He's done.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)FighttheFuture
(1,313 posts)should dare call out a DLC Democrat like DWS!!! It must be all "bitter and petty forces". Never mind the Empress with no clothes. Move along.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)I'm genuinely curious.
George Eliot
(701 posts)I want someone with integrity.
okasha
(11,573 posts)FighttheFuture
(1,313 posts)I understand it can be hard to see how someone who was a real wheeler dealer Texas style politician of his time, what you might call corrupt, could also use his influence to actually start enforcing real civil rights and lifting millions of people out of poverty, cutting it in half, and change the entire nature of the debate. A quick list of his accomplishments:
Domestic accomplishments of President Johnson:
o Designed his signature "Great Society" legislation, which included laws upholding civil rights, public broadcasting, Medicare, Medicaid, environmental protection, aid to education, and the abolition of poverty
o Signed the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 and 1968 outlawing most forms of racial segregation and providing equal housing opportunities regardless of race, creed, or national origin, and passed the Voting Rights Act of 1965 outlawing discrimination in voting
o Appointed Thurgood Marshall as the first African American justice on the Supreme Court
o Signed the Elementary and Secondary Education Act and Higher Education Act to improve funding to schools, especially those in poor districts
o Established the National Endowment for the Humanities and the National Endowment for the Arts to support humanists and artists
o Created programs to tackle poverty such as Head Start, food stamps, Work Study, Medicare, and Medicaid
o Presided over the first manned flight to the Moon with the Apollo 8 program
Foreign policy accomplishments of President Johnson:
o Signed the Immigration Act of 1965, which substantially liberalized US immigration policy towards non-Europeans
o Drastically escalated American involvement in Vietnam following the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution from 16,000 advisors/soldiers to 550,000 combat troops in 1968
Now, I won't praise the Vietnam war escalation, but it was the times of the cold war, the rise of the MIC, Kennedy was previously assassinated and many thought it was Cuba that did it at that time. So, I can cut him some slack because he actually really did something good with his power, something positive. I do not see that with many similarly corrupt politicians and they just have my disdain.
okasha
(11,573 posts)Despite his corruption, LBJ did an enormous amount of good.
And there's no "might be called corrupt" to it. He was crooked as they come. He had a strong network with the (equally crooked) patrones of South Texas, was joined at the hip with major defense contractor Brown Root, got elected to the Senate by literally stealing a ballot box.
FighttheFuture
(1,313 posts)History will, and has judged LBJ fairly well, I would say. He was a flawed individual, no doubt, but his accomplishments temper his seedier side. I also don't think his corruptions rose to the level of, say Nixon, who was actually doing treasonous activities with his backdoor negotiations with the North Vietnamese while he was a private citizen in order to sabotage efforts by LBJ -- something also done by Reagan, I refer to his "October Surprise" . BTW, Johnson knew about this but did not want to expose it; it would be too explosive. I cannot say the same thing about the petty corruption and ignoring the principles of the party today which has drifted far off its foundations.
PufPuf23
(8,813 posts)Agencies, legislation, and programs that have been under siege since Reagan under both GOP (more so) and Democratic administrations and Congresses.
FighttheFuture
(1,313 posts)I agree Nixon was more by omission whereas LBJ was by commission, purposeful. Comparing the two really doesn't fly. Also, the entire point of this thread is really not about Nixon or LBJ. So, what point are you try to make?
roody
(10,849 posts)to win, not lose.
Tatiana
(14,167 posts)Her lack of support for Democrats in Florida is troublesome. No one can explain why she supports Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, Lincoln Diaz-Balart and Mario Diaz-Balart other than the fact that they are her friends. I suppose if Donald Trump was her friend, she'd support him too?
Canova has a near impossible task. He doesn't have a lot of name recognition. However, I admire him for giving DWS her first primary challenge in 6 elections.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)There's a reason they elect somebody like DWS: it's a pretty conservative constituency.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)Republican and Democrat can be almost indistinguishable.
Often, if you hate and despise all Republicans, you will lead a very lonely life.
Trump is not a Southerner.
Tatiana
(14,167 posts)I'm just saying that as a Democrat, she should be comfortable saying something to the effect of, "I am always willing to work across the aisle to get things accomplished, however, as a Democrat, I endorse the Democratic candidate in this race..."
It is long time for the Miami Mafia and anti-Castro Cuban exiles to lose their grip on power in Florida politics. I understand that the South is, generally speaking, conservative. But DWS seems unwilling to support even a moderate or conservative Democrat running against her so-called friends and that is wrong, especially given the political positions her friends promote.
McKim
(2,412 posts)It is helpful when thinking of a connection to DWS and Ros-Lehtinen to recall that the foreign policy around Venezuela, Argentina,
Cuba and etc. under Secretary Clinton was moving forward in ways that Ros Lehtinen truly approved of.
progressoid
(49,994 posts)Coolest Ranger
(2,034 posts)she got a raw deal and i hope she beats him badly too
Loki
(3,825 posts)I'm not fond of smear jobs, no matter where they come from. She will stand or fall on the votes of her constituents, as it should be.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Larkspur
(12,804 posts)Both are hated in Progressive circles.
Tatiana
(14,167 posts)And Rahm's doing an awful job as mayor. These people are so hungry for power, money, and recognition that they lose sight of the purpose of "public service."
The Wizard
(12,546 posts)give the Jewish people a bad name.
Fla Dem
(23,727 posts)whose political actions you disagreed? They give all Catholics a bad name, they give all Baptists a bad name, they give all Muslims a bad name? If not then, why reference their religions?
The Wizard
(12,546 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Calling it "hate" implies that opposition to those two is people making a big deal over nothing.
(Not saying that was your intent, but that's how it reads).
Larkspur
(12,804 posts)especially of the Progressive wing of the party. Joe Lieberman also shared that hubris and arrogance towards the Progressive wing of the Dem base.
MineralMan
(146,324 posts)It is amazingly hard to unseat an incumbent representative who won her last election with over 60% of the vote. Pretty much impossible, really.
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)Yes perhaps she shall win but her reputation will forever be tarnished by her despicable actions as head of the DNC.
Party unity is now the theme until election day but there will be hell to pay post election for these antics. Bank on it!
KMOD
(7,906 posts)post election as well.
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)gropes' very well anyway.
Maru Kitteh
(28,342 posts)then you may well be right.
Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #75)
Post removed
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)Purveyor
(29,876 posts)misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)Larkspur
(12,804 posts)xocet
(3,871 posts)FighttheFuture
(1,313 posts)I mean, God forbid Democrats may actually try to look critically at themselves. Better to be lemmings marching off a cliff? It that it?
Regardless, I see as the republicans further disintegrate after this Trump Dumpster fire and their insane ideologies and blatant greed and power lust --can't blame these on Trump! Democratic leaders will try to pull more republicans to them to prop themselves up. This will have the interesting effect of fracturing the Democratic Party into the "New" Republicans and the more liberal Democrats. It, or something like it, is inevitable as our creaky system only supports two main factions (i.e. parties) and nature abhors a vacuum.
DU can be part of the process of sorting that all out, or it can exist to help cement the existing power structure in place. A structure that is showing itself to be more and more out of step with what the country and its people want and need. That's plain to see, given the rise of "Independent" voters and people who simply do not vote. Lots of choices coming up for the Mods and owners of this site.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)However, wishing to call someone a "crappy" dem is not.
I would suggest you post in ATA for further clarity.
FighttheFuture
(1,313 posts)FighttheFuture
(1,313 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)Her legacy will gone down as very impressive.
think
(11,641 posts)with the GOP incumbents will certainly be some legacy for a former DNC chair....
Demsrule86
(68,637 posts)I looked and could find nothing.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Here dude. Didn't you agree to the TOS?
tiredtoo
(2,949 posts)be so kind as to explain to me why DWS's support of payday lenders is a good thing?
bonemachine
(757 posts)The closest thing to an explanation I've heard is that if the people who used those loan sharks couldn't, then they would have no credit access at all.
LexVegas
(6,089 posts)misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)Her opinions on advancing equality for women's issues and fight for keeping some RW perv from barging in on a woman's gyno appt, can be counted on.
DWS is on Hillary's side completely on this subject.
think
(11,641 posts)Democratic party leaders have tapped Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz to raise money and coach candidates in a high-stakes, aggressive bid to expand the Democratic majority in the House of Representatives.
But as three Miami Democrats look to unseat three of her South Florida Republican colleagues, Wasserman Schultz is staying on the sidelines. So is Rep. Kendrick Meek, a Miami Democrat and loyal ally to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
That wasn't the case just two years ago when the pair flouted a long-standing Florida delegation agreement to not campaign against colleagues and vigorously backed Ron Klein in his winning bid to oust veteran Republican Rep. Clay Shaw.
This time around, Wasserman Schultz and Meek say their relationships with the Republican incumbents, Reps. Lincoln Diaz-Balart and his brother Mario, and Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, leave them little choice but to sit out the three races.
Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article24478039.html#storylink=cpy
lapucelle
(18,305 posts)and she staged a hell of a convention, even if she didn't get to attend it because of one scandalous email that she wasn't party to.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)That required a superior organizational skillset.
She did it & she will serve her District, her Dem Party & its President very well in the House.
Too bad she took the fall for the nasty emails that not one was sent by her.
That is rather honorable & her Dem loyalty in 2016 is loud & clear.
Trump & his Putin hackers and pathetic Assange can go puff their chests at their big boy coup.
They will get nothing in the end because it will be Hillary & DWS and those who stand by their side who will lead this nation back to a fully functioning society.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)and private prisons.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,371 posts)turbinetree
(24,710 posts)I think there should be a page just on how exactly tariffs of imports and exports work and have that compared side by side to see if this is how Alexander Hamilton envisioned this country back then and today----------------it is about "tariffs":
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/tariff
She still will not debate him----------------why?
Then the question can be asked to her, and Canova about tariffs and how they relate to her votes on "trade deals" and other
co-sponsored legislation and votes
Honk-------------------for "Our Revolution"
Omaha Steve
(99,693 posts)Donate to Democratic Underground for Tim Canova FL-23 HERE: https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/page/du4timcanova
He is the current hot donation on Act Blue.
Omaha Steve
(99,693 posts)Donate to Democratic Underground for Tim Canova FL-23 HERE: https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/page/du4timcanova
Scalded Nun
(1,236 posts)Anyone who backs her while stating they care about 'the people' should be ashamed. She represents everything our party should be fighting.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,237 posts)RAFisher
(466 posts)We have Republican turned Independent turned Democrat Charlie Crist in favor of it. But no. She wants to be on the side with Lord Voldemort and Pam Blondy. But if John Morgan stops saying mean things about her and give her money she said she'd change he mind. What a fucking joke.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,237 posts)SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Nothing to be smug about, with three weeks left in the race.
Why would you even want someone as right wing as DWS to be renominated as a Dem?
Someone who still supports the drug war even though the country has turned against it?
Someone who defends payday usury?
Someone who defends massive taxpayer funding of private prisons(a type of institution we never needed)?
What's to like?
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)She's been made a punching bag by the BoBer's. Her district likes her, and they didn't like Bernie. Propping up Canova's campaign because of high feud with DWS just tanked his chances.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)DWS brought everything she got on herself. She had an obligation, in the position she was in, to be totally neutral in the primaries and to do nothing at all to try to influence the result of that process.
Had she done that, there's a good chance HRC would have won anyway, but at least then none of the young Sanders people(most of whom have now made it clear they support the ticket)would feel that the party was treating them and their candidate as an invading force that needed to be crushed.
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)conspiracy theories. Bye. You won't be getting responses from me again. I can't wait for the disappointment over the Canova defeat.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)As to the DNC, I don't approve of most of the things that happened at the DNC that you referenced there, but if you're going to be honest about it, at least some of those bad responses were provoked by the party's actions. There's blame to be assigned on both sides for that.
Gore1FL
(21,151 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)That district doesn't NEED a congressmember who still backs hardline drug policies, defends payday usury and supports continued federal subsidy of the private prison system.
This isn't a district where a Dem has to support big chunks of right-wing policies like those to get elected and re-elected.
Also, the most recent poll shows DWS only eight points ahead.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Nothing is sure in this race.
Why would any Democrat WANT a Dem who supports payday usury, the failed drug war, and mass federal subsidies for private prisons to get renominated?
It's not like you have to take stands like that to win that district.
And it doesn't matter where the damn donations came from(most of Tim's were in-state, btw, and DWS got MORE out-of-state donations).
Why bother defending a reactionary like DWS?
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)And the 2016 DNC Convention was very well planned and executed.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... and the Bob's (elsewhere on the internet) to antagonize and root against.
Let 'em. Who cares? Gripe, moan, whine ... it's all the same, it never ends, and nothing you say will make any difference. All or nothing. Stubbornness for the sake of only pride and vanity. No compromise. No common ground. No other opinions other than their own have any worth or validity. (That's why they're called "fringe" and that's why they're so ineffective. You'd think they'd learn.)
Debbie WS has been and will be a strong and experienced ally for Hillary ... just what President Clinton will need.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)A seat that will always vote Democratic doesn't need a congresssmember who supports private prisons and the drug war(especially since the drug war is mainly a way to abet white supremacy by stripping people of color of the right to vote on trivial pretexts-something)and payday usury. And who acts as if she is above having to debate her primary opponent.
There's nothing she'll be able to do in Congress that Tim couldn't do...and she won't start fighting for workers and the poor if she never fought for them before this.
A progressive Democratic district deserves a progressive voice in Congress.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... not necessarily the one you happen to prefer. Cope.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Besides, HRC will probably appoint DWS to something and she'd resign the seat if she did still have it, so why even bother renominating her?
Voting for Tim will not only mean a better Dem gets elected(ANY Dem is guaranteed to win that district), it will probably save the taxpayers the cost of a special election.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And your desperation about trying to convince everyone that people to the left of your comfort zone are totally irrelevant and deserving of derisive laughter is supposed to prove that?
I'm actually not emotionally invested as much as I just won't let you get away with drive-by snark without proving that you've got nothing to be smarky and superior-sounding about.
Your smugness masks fear.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)DWS as a proxy punching bag.
Demsrule86
(68,637 posts)white_wolf
(6,238 posts)Anyone who supports the Payday Loan industry is no friend to the poor or middle class.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)is NO progressive!
seaglass
(8,173 posts)deal. Not a big fan of some of DWS' positions but I hope he loses bad.
glennward
(989 posts)rateyes
(17,438 posts)SoCalMusicLover
(3,194 posts)She'll be offered a cabinet position within seconds of Hillary winning the election.
If you think she hasn't been promised a job in the administration, I've got a bridge to sell.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)She's a strong progressive voice, and she's been scapegoated for bullshit.
seaglass
(8,173 posts)Less than two weeks after publicly signing on to help the campaign of ousted Democratic National Committee chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultzs challenger, Bernie Sanders top political and media strategists are no longer working for Tim Canova.
Demsrule86
(68,637 posts)I am glad she is winning. Often a primary defeat of an incumbent meant the election of a Republican. we don't need that shit.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)dflprincess
(28,082 posts)I was hoping voters would start weeding out the Third Way types and give us a more progressive Congress.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)And we are a big tent party. Many of us do not identify as progressives if by that you mean democratic socialist. Some of us see ourselves as social democrats. A big difference.
dflprincess
(28,082 posts)more with the values of the New Deal and Great Society, not the "DLC/Third Way/New Democrats" who identify more with the attitudes of Nelson Rockefeller (though I'm not sure old Nelson wasn't to the left of a good many of today's "new" Democrats.)
And certainly not someone who calls herself a Democrat but supports Republicans in House races in her state.
bluedye33139
(1,474 posts)obamanut2012
(26,099 posts)It is very close to me.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)bigwillq
(72,790 posts)DWS is awful, imo.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)so, good.
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)It was poor taste, boorish bullying that was used against her. Democrats should NEVER treat other democrats in the way some treated DWS. It's GOP attacks on your own. Also, it discussed me to no end how BS tried to have influence on who Hillary picked as VP. Sick! Hillary was within 1% of Obama and did not BULLY him like what was seen here..
BlueMTexpat
(15,371 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)oasis
(49,398 posts)Go Debbie.
G_j
(40,367 posts)Demsrule86
(68,637 posts)G_j
(40,367 posts)not yourself..
Demsrule86
(68,637 posts)And I think she got a raw deal anyway. People don't dislike her because of payday lending or all the other stuff that has been posted... they are angry on Bernie's behalf. The primary is over. Time to move on. And as I said before, I have been poor really really poor...and I know that sometimes you need some cash to keep the lights on or a roof over your head...we need to improve the safety net before we go after the only way many poor people can get money. Banks won't give them loans and subprime credit is gone...Is it a bad industry...yes of course. What is really the problem is we have left the poor at such risk that they have little choice sometimes...and if you end it...they will go to a worse place...loansharks.