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Thu Sep 8, 2016, 08:12 AM

"What is Aleppo?"

Ladies and gentlemen I present to you the libertarian candidate for President (psst also Commander-in-Chief).

I've been pilloried on here for asking if Clinton should run ads against Stein or Johnson, well I think Johnson just did the best ad for Hillary all by himself on Morning Joe.

26 replies, 4026 views

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Arrow 26 replies Author Time Post
Reply "What is Aleppo?" (Original post)
piechartking Sep 2016 OP
MH1 Sep 2016 #1
randome Sep 2016 #3
yellowcanine Sep 2016 #7
MH1 Sep 2016 #10
Wounded Bear Sep 2016 #22
MH1 Sep 2016 #24
Wounded Bear Sep 2016 #25
leftynyc Sep 2016 #5
MH1 Sep 2016 #9
leftynyc Sep 2016 #11
HughBeaumont Sep 2016 #12
leftynyc Sep 2016 #16
HughBeaumont Sep 2016 #18
leftynyc Sep 2016 #20
oasis Sep 2016 #6
piechartking Sep 2016 #2
Protalker Sep 2016 #4
Paladin Sep 2016 #8
Ilsa Sep 2016 #14
HereSince1628 Sep 2016 #13
PDittie Sep 2016 #15
NurseJackie Sep 2016 #17
left-of-center2012 Sep 2016 #19
Jake Stern Sep 2016 #21
BobbyDrake Sep 2016 #23
nolabear Sep 2016 #26

Response to piechartking (Original post)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 08:20 AM

1. Hillary supporters probably shouldn't be happy with this.

Johnson was the non-Trump choice for voters who can't stand either Clinton or Trump. Now, except for the hardest core non-interventionist libertarians (and those are the true Libertarians, and a very small part of the electorate), those people will be taking another look at Trump. If Trump is successful in appearing more rational and presidential over the next couple months, some of those voters will go to him. Somebody who was looking at voting for Johnson is not a persuadable for Clinton, but might go to Trump.

This is an oh shit for the Clinton campaign as well as the Johnson campaign.

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Response to MH1 (Reply #1)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 08:43 AM

3. "If Trump is successful in appearing more rational and presidential..."

 

Did you just wake up from a coma or something?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #3)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 09:02 AM

7. Exactly. After last night I think that can be safely ruled out for the debates.

Without a teleprompter Trump reverts to the real Trump, which is neither rational nor presidential.

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Response to randome (Reply #3)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 09:31 AM

10. "appearing more rational and presidential"

refers to the way Hillary haters perceive him, not how rational people like you and I perceive him. Big difference.

But others have pointed out that polling strongly suggests that removal of Johnson as a contender, helps Hillary. This doesn't seem like a rational result to me, but voters clearly are not rational. (Exhibit A: Trump.) So I stand corrected, but on the polling aspect.

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Response to MH1 (Reply #10)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 11:57 AM

22. Libertarians are basically Repubs on steroids...

Anybody that would vote Johnson didn't start out as a Clinton supporter (or any other progressive ftm). If Johnson fades, his voters would more naturally go to Trump, or stay home. Either way helps Hillary.

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #22)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 01:08 PM

24. I was with you until you said,

"If Johnson fades, his voters would more naturally go to Trump, or stay home. Either way helps Hillary." -- how does it help Hillary if possible Johnson voters vote for Trump? That's more votes for Trump. That's exactly what I was concerned about. It doesn't help Clinton. If they stay home, no problem. If they turn to Clinton, great. But the argument you stated here doesn't support that. (Others have made the argument that polling shows Johnson is actually pulling more votes from Clinton than Trump. In that case, assuming it's accurate, it's better for Clinton if Johnson fades.)

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Response to MH1 (Reply #24)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 01:20 PM

25. Well, I'm allowed to disagree with the "experts" if I want...



Seriously, though, the popular vote doesn't concern me much. It's all about the Electoral College. If you look at the "blue wall," reliable blue states, if 100% of Libertarians voted for Trump, none of them would flip. None.

In "battleground" states, I don't see that Johnson supporters would flip that many of them, there just aren't enough of them. Penn won't go red, and Virginia is pretty solid behind Clinton. Without PA and VA, there really is no path for Trump to win, regardless of the popular vote and how it is swung by Johnson supporters.

Staying home would be the best outcome, because that means they don't vote down ballot. I stand by my premise that Libertarians more naturally vote Repub than Dem, and would especially do so given Trump's supposed "outsider" status.

Beyond the couple of "at large" EV from Maine and Nebraska, I don't see Johnson pulling any EV.

I think some people, including the pollsters, are confusing Independents with Libertarians. Obviously, if all Independents went Trump, he could possibly win. But that would have to include flipping a lot of Indies in the blue wall states, which I don't see happening. All the commentary I'm reading is that a huge percentage of the votes for Nov are already baked in.

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Response to MH1 (Reply #1)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 08:47 AM

5. Every single poll shows he pulls more

 

from Clinton than from Trump so your analysis is completely flawed (with all due respect).

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #5)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 09:26 AM

9. Ok, if those polls are accurate then you are right and I'm wrong.

But I cannot comprehend how anyone who would vote for Clinton could possibly vote for Johnson. There is a much wider policy gap between Clinton and Johnson, than Trump and Johnson. By orders of magnitude. So how the f*ck could any potential Clinton voter ever vote for Johnson?

Oh right, the average voter doesn't vote based on actual policy or capability, do they? Or any other sane rationale. (Yeah, yeah, the existence of Trump as a major party nominee in the first place, kind of indicates that last item.)

(this is why I write software rather than work in politics.)

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Response to MH1 (Reply #9)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 09:35 AM

11. Libertarians are strange creatures

 

Bill Maher is a libertarian but I still consider him a liberal...at least on most stuff. I suspect some liberals are voting for Johnson because they've been fed the Clinton hate for decades but just can't stomach voting republican.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #5)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 09:35 AM

12. Johnson pulls more votes from Hillary???

How does THAT a to b connect??

Democrats are going to vote for a Fair Taxer (sorry, people plugging it, it's a really dumb idea that's designed to soak the middle/working to pay for what the destitute poor cannot and the wealthy refuse to)?

Democrats are going to vote for a guy who essentially wants to give the wealthy a near-tax-free life on OUR consuming backs?

Democrats are going to vote for a guy who wants to end corporate taxation, arguing that doing so would create jobs and essentially carries on the same Dead Reagan bullshit that didn't work the first 354 times we tried it?

Democrats are going to vote for a guy who wants to drown the social safety net for all future and potential recipients and who wants to raise the retirement age to beyond 70 (no different than a far-right wing position)?

Democrats are going to vote for a guy who supports states displaying a flag of treason and sedition bathed in the blood of slavery?

Democrats are going to vote for a guy who wants to abolish the Department of Education and HUD?

Democrats are going to vote for a TPP supporter and free trade (of labor)?

Democrats are going to vote for a guy who supports market-based (read: For Profit) Exclusiversal Wealthcare barbarism (a Strike One, Two and Three in my book, sorry)??

This isn't me making shit up . . . this comes directly from his "On the Issues" page.

You can yell "BUT TEH LEGAL WEEEEEED" all you want (I see states are making more progress on that issue than the Federal government is, so without that . . . ) . .. and he does have some strong points, like pro-choice and anti-foreign conflicts . . . but let's not pretend his economic plan and views on the social safety net are even in the realm of something a Democrat would consider voting for. Come on.

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #12)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 10:07 AM

16. Nobody is pretending anything

 

Check out any poll that checks both ways - a 2 way race and a 4 way race - and you'll see what I'm talking about. He pulls more from Hillary. Is it the pot issue? I have no idea. I think it's probably more from having 30 years of non-scandals dogging Hillary but they can't stomach voting for don the con.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #16)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 10:17 AM

18. Well, these must be some Conservatives in the right wing of our "big tent" . . .

The Fair Tax is hyper-right wing and a horrible idea.

Abolishing the IRS is hyper-right wing.

Continuing Exclusiversal Wealthcare is a right wing position.

Raising the retirement age to 70+ is a right wing position.

Support of the Confederate Flag is a right wing position.

His positions on war and pro-choice aren't even genuine. They don't revolve around war being immoral and wrong or Pro-choice being a human right . . . he just sees each one as "one more thing gubmint shouldn't meddle in".

I just don't get how "Democrats" would be on board with such nonsense.

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #18)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 11:11 AM

20. I just told you how

 

They've been fed anti-Clinton crap for 3 decades.

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Response to MH1 (Reply #1)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 08:49 AM

6. This Johnson foul up is a plus for Hillary. A two person debate

is now guaranteed.

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Response to piechartking (Original post)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 08:24 AM

2. I tend to disagree

4-way takes from Clinton, not from Trump.

I don't have a link handy but multiple sources have confirmed this effect. I think it helps Clinton.

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Response to piechartking (Original post)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 08:45 AM

4. Johnson's one note Weed!

It has always been his siren call. He takes from Hillary 538 says. He is powerful, even Bill Maher said let go legalization this election

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Response to piechartking (Original post)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 09:15 AM

8. Absolutely clueless.

He didn't even have the presence of mind to respond with "Well, in what particular respect are you asking, with regard to Aleppo?" That would have at least elicted some clues as to what Aleppo is. Even Joe Scarborough wrote Johnson off this morning, on the basis of this stumble.....

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Response to Paladin (Reply #8)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 09:42 AM

14. Yep, you have to give Palin a little credit for asking,

"In what respect, Charlie?" to get a clue phoned in about what the was about.

I think Johnson has to be toast. I'd hope that half of his/Weld's support would dissipate after this, yard signs returned, bumper stickers pulled off.

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Response to piechartking (Original post)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 09:36 AM

13. Ok smart guy, you tell me just what -is- a Lepo?



lepo!

(military) At ease!

Usage notes

(military interjection) Asento! is used when a group, already at ease (lepo), is commanded to stand in the state of alertness, with the heels together and with the tips of the shoes two fists apart from each other. The command huomio! is used when a group, neiher at ease nor in any other commanded position, is commanded to pay attention to the commander, with the feet in the position of asento.



If we don't see this as a high comic moment, it's going to be a very long Fall.

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Response to piechartking (Original post)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 09:55 AM

15. Never get baked in the morning

before a teevee interview.

That's the takeaway here.

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Response to piechartking (Original post)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 10:12 AM

17. He's the old man who carved Pinocchio, right? ;-P

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Response to piechartking (Original post)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 10:22 AM

19. ‘What Is Aleppo?’

"Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ............."

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Response to piechartking (Original post)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 11:53 AM

21. The perfect response, at least in my eyes, would have been. . . .

"What is Aleppo? Well Aleppo is your attempt to elicit a plan for spending more money and blood to back the ISIS riddled Free Syrian Army in yet another emotion and media driven foreign military adventure against the New 'New Hitler'. I thought we learned that lesson in Iraq and Libya, however it appears that we haven't"

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Response to piechartking (Original post)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 12:43 PM

23. Johnson: "I thought Aleppo was an acronym."

 

OK, let's try to take him at his word. Phonetically, it comes out to "ah-lep-o." Maybe the "ah" blends into the L and sounds like sounds like an L, but then what the fuck letter sounds like "ep," Gary? Huh?

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Response to piechartking (Original post)

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 02:25 PM

26. K&R and a forehead slap. Jesus, people...

President? Seriously?

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