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[left-of-center2012]

This message was self-deleted by its author (left-of-center2012) on Fri Sep 9, 2016, 08:44 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Xipe Totec]

1. That's what the AR in the name stands for; Assault Riff... Er.. I mean Hunting Riffle. nt

[Duckhunter935]

5. The AR is for Armalite

It is just a semi-automatic rifle, and yes it is used as a hunting rifle. The AR 10 is for larger game.

[MohRokTah]

41. Armalite Rifle. eom

[onehandle]

2. I agree. It's excellent for hunting humans. nt

[Duckhunter935]

6. Then hundreds of thousands are being misused

[JonathanRackham]

95. What do they hunt with in Chicago?

[Duckhunter935]

97. They use handguns

Not to mention most are criminal gang members that should already be incarcerated. That is what light sentences get you.

[JonathanRackham]

104. So the don't pass background checks?

How do they get their guns?

[Duckhunter935]

106. It appears most of them are prohibited persons

Do no. It is already against the law for then to own them. They are not AR style rifles either which is what the OP is about.

[anoNY42]

3. The "AR" technically stands for

Armalite Rifle, but whatever...

It's more of a varmint rifle, anyway.

Edit: Oops, this was a response to comment #1

[ck4829]

4. Well... If you're hunting people then it certainly is

[Duckhunter935]

7. Then, why are those rifles

The least used in murders?

[yallerdawg]

16. When there are millions and millions of guns in the US...

it would be unlikely statistically to have one make and model of gun be the "murder" gun of choice.

However, the AR-15 and similar assault weapons have been used with deadly efficiency in very high profile mass murder.

Seems like a good place to start. Then, we keep going until we find what works.

[Duckhunter935]

19. Yep, start with the most sold rifle and least used in murders

Typical, and why the gun control people tend to fail.

[yallerdawg]

22. The "gun control people."

Also known as Democrats.

Better get ready.

The last assault weapons ban was from a Clinton.

The next will be from a Clinton. And more!

[Duckhunter935]

24. And failed miserably

The Sandy Hook rifle was AWB compliant

[yallerdawg]

27. Next ban will include the Sandy Hook rifle!

See how easy that is?

[Duckhunter935]

29. Then it will become the NY SAFE act compliant

Semi-automatic rifles that are legal.

[yallerdawg]

31. How can a Federal assault weapons ban...

become a state law?

We should look to the effectiveness of gun safety legislation in many other countries for weapon's bans.

[Duckhunter935]

61. And yes, another one for forced confiscation

[bettyellen]

71. Pry them out of the hands of those who use violence or threats of same? FUCK YES!!!!

The NRA is bribing politicians to go against the will of the people.

[Duckhunter935]

72. And the hundreds of thousands of law abiding

AR15 owners?

[bettyellen]

82. More stringent background checks, waiting periods extended as needed, insurance requirements

And heavier taxes to pay for victims of "accidents".
And much tougher penalties for negligence.

[Duckhunter935]

86. so, couple of questions

waiting periods extended as needed

How long? what if I already have weapons, should it be waived?

insurance requirements

Criminal acts are not covered by insurance. Policies are dirt cheap and the NRA would love you as they sell the most policies. Make it mandatory.

heavier taxes to pay for victims of "accidents"

Everybody already pays taxes and the hospital and other costs are already billed to any that have a negligent discharge and injure themselves or a person.

much tougher penalties for negligence

This we agree on.

[bettyellen]

99. Backround checks should be redone semi-annually on existing guns.

Not very every one pays taxes! Trump sure didn't.
Close all the gunshow and private sale loopholes. All of them.
I do think fees need to be collected to pay for a much better comprehensive system to check the records and for restitution to victims.

As far as waiting periods? As long as it takes to do them right. If they need a faster system let the NRA help
Pay for it.

[EL34x4]

79. You mean that last assault weapon ban

That handed congress over to the Republicans, forcing Bill Clinton to govern from the center for the rest of his Presidency? That last assault weapon ban that turned the previously poor-selling AR-15 into the most popular sporting rifle in America? That last assault weapon ban that didn't take a single firearm off the streets? That last assault weapons ban that essentially killed gun control in the United States? Shall I go on?

Yes, I'm sure President Hillary Clinton is going to get right on that.

[Eleanors38]

59. I note the VT murderer killed 32 with a pistol and several standard magazines...

maybe he figured they were ...concealable?

[dionysus]

105. They get used in high profile mass murders, which is a reason why they're targeted. however, they

hardly contribute to total gun deaths, which are done with pistols.

[Hoyt]

62. It"s a favorite of racist militias.

[Duckhunter935]

67. Am I part of one of those?

And the other tens of millions of AR owners? Many of them Democrats.

[Exilednight]

8. That's why it has a 15 round magazine.

In case you miss with the first 14.

[Duckhunter935]

18. Many states limit it to a 5 round magazine

For hunting.

[LanternWaste]

38. And many others do not.

And many others do not.

It's a good bullet-point, though. Some people may even believe it.

[NWCorona]

9. While it is used for hunting I doubt that is why it is primarily bought.

I personally think it's an odd caliber for hunting.

[Abnredleg]

10. It comes in various calibers

7mm is popular for hunting.

[NWCorona]

11. Yup! I had one chambered in .308 but sold it. It was a heavy beast.

[Eleanors38]

44. Some of the AR platform rifles are -7 lbs., now. At or lower than bolt action weights.

[NWCorona]

48. That is light. My Oracle without mag or optics was 8.3 lbs but fully equipped was just over 12lbs

[Eleanors38]

57. Field & Stream's latest issue reviewed several light weight models...

But, yeah, several years ago I hefted an AR 10 (.260 REM), and it was too much for this old carcass! I stick with my Remington 700 in .270. But if I were younger, I might consider the lighter jobs if they come in a heavier caliber. Their accuracy has gone up remarkably (approx. 1.5" moa), and they have shed a lot of weight.

[NWCorona]

65. I love the 700 as long as it's not an xmp trigger model.

[Thinkingabout]

12. It isn't a hunting rifle to the hunters who is hunting game to be eaten by their families, I dont

like the taste of lead.

[Duckhunter935]

15. Why is that?

It fires one round per trigger pull just like any other civilian rifle

[Thinkingabout]

32. Now this is easy, multiple rounds

[Duckhunter935]

42. One pull of the trigger, one round

Just like any other rifle. Yep very easy.

[Eleanors38]

47. Gosh, just remove the lead, Thinking. No one says you are required to eat it.

[Thinkingabout]

50. I prefer to have the meat processed by sharp knives and the meat in a

Without lots of bone fragments. My hunters are good shots and do not have a need to hunt with an AR-15.

[Eleanors38]

55. I do most of my butchering, and turn over cuts for grinding at a processor after I have inspected...

The meat for any debris, lead, bone, etc. For deer, I use a .270 bolt action; follow-up shots are uncommon with this. The hog-hunting weapon of choice in Texas is now the AR due to fast follow-up rounds. While there is debate over the .223's sufficiency for hogs, most people who hunt hogs seem OK with it.

[Duckhunter935]

60. You do know that the civilian AR15s

Are semi-automatic and only fire one round at a time, right. And the ammunition is not special or more destructive, right. You can fire that same ammo from bolt action . You do also know that the AR15 is not really powerful enough for larger game and an AR10 is a better choice as it is a larger caliber.

[tonyt53]

13. Only if you are hunting humans.

[Duckhunter935]

17. Then it is being used wrong by hundreds of thousands of people

Rifles if any type are the least used in murders, and the AR is is a small subset of that.

[Eleanors38]

45. Correction: Data on gun homicides reveals rifles account for less than 3% of deaths...

the AR, AK, SKS, etc. semi-autos are a subset of arms within that class of arms.

Thank you for the opportunity to correct this oft-repeated and gross misconception.

[workinclasszero]

14. It is a hunting rifle...

Its made to hunt and slaughter mass quantities of human beings in the most efficient manner.

I guess he left that part out, go figure.

[Duckhunter935]

20. Not the civilian version

Totally different then the military equivalent. The civilian version is that same as any other semi-automatic rifle except for the cosmetics.

[mitch96]

26. Totally?

Just did a quick search and it seems to me it's just the full auto/three shot burst that's different..Yes?
Granted some are not "mil-spec" like the orlando shooters gun...
m

[Duckhunter935]

28. All civilian rifles are semi-automatic

They are functionally the same only the look of the weapon is different between a so called "assault weapon" and other semi-automatic rifles.

[MyNameGoesHere]

30. How much better do those cosmetics

Make the varmints taste? Do you add a little of the rifle when you cook up those varmints?

[workinclasszero]

33. Totally different?

Really? Besides no 3 round burst what makes the AR-15 totally different than the military equivalent?

I would argue there is no reason for semi-auto weapons of any kind for sale to civilians as far as that goes.

[mitch96]

46. I can see a semi-auto

Shotgun for duck hunting.. quicker follow up. Other than that????
Since handguns kill more people here in the US than semi auto rifles, I think we should concentrate on that first...
m

[mog75]

85. first?

What's next?

[Duckhunter935]

87. At least you are honest

and talk about function.

[Hoyt]

75. So why are you guys attracted to the cosmetics?

[Duckhunter935]

77. I like that is a modular weapon

You can easily change the caliber by changing out the upper receiver. By doing the same you can also change the barrel length for different purposes. One weapon that can do many things. That allows people to have fewer weapons. Isn't that what you want?

[Hoyt]

90. Weapon, not a hunting tool. As I thought.

Last edited Fri Sep 9, 2016, 05:34 AM - Edit history (1)

[Duckhunter935]

93. Except I do not hunt, as you well know by now.

[Hoyt]

103. I know you and 85+% of gunners do not hunt (game). They just use that as rationale for arming up

with weapons like this:

[R.A. Ganoush]

110. Pound of frozen butter

nt

[rocktivity]

21. If you're hunting for instant hamburger.

rocktivity

[onehandle]

23. [INSERT GUN APOLOGIST STATEMENT]

- REPEAT -

[Duckhunter935]

25. You mean like simple facts?

[JonathanRackham]

94. Technically they're automatic rifles.

People automatically post incorrect information and hyperbole the moment they're mentioned.

[Duckhunter935]

98. do you have a link to that ATF definition?

I am sure you will provide it

[Buckeye_Democrat]

34. Grenades and landmines are illegal to possess by civilians, thankfully.

Were they ever used as frequently as semi-automatic rifles for domestic mass murder? No.

Grenades and landmines could be used for hunting animals too. Landmines would be especially useful in that regard, placing them under bait for large animals which are heavy enough to trigger them.

Why ban grenades and landmines but not semi-auto rifles?

[TheKentuckian]

39. A land mine for hunting is nonsense unless it was some fantasy precision mine

Typical results wouldn't leave much if anything for eating.

A shot versus and explosion isn't apples to oranges much less apples to apples.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

40. Huh? There's been people who survived landmines, losing their legs.

A quick Google search shows similar results for animals that stepped on landmines around the world.

I'm not saying it's a good way to hunt, but it makes as much sense as claiming that a multi-round semi-automatic rifle is good for hunting.

As for grenades, slather one with bacon grease and toss it toward a bear who will be tempted to sniff and lick it. Again, not a very appealing idea, but it would probably work if food is a concern.

The hunting excuse is BS.

[mitch96]

49. Fishing with dynamite?

That would work for the carp infestation... But you can't use a land mine for fishing..
Cause it's, well, for the land!!!
m

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

81. actually they're not

ATF permission is required but they are allowed.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

84. I'm not finding it online.

What's your source?

If that's the case, then these lawyers need educated:
http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-defense/weapons-firearms/is-it-legal-own-hand-grenades

Destructive Devices: What are They?
Under the NFA, the term “destructive device” includes three types of explosives or weapons:
1. Bombs, grenades, rockets, missiles, and mines (and similar devices). Military grenades fit into this category. How a defendant intends to use the device is irrelevant—mere possession is enough for a conviction.

So…Is it Illegal to Possess a Hand Grenade?
The short answer is yes, when that’s a military style, live grenade. But people who build devices themselves, or simply gather together the components of what could become a grenade, cannot know for sure whether their items, even assembled, will land them in legal hot water. The answer will depend on the approach of the federal court in the area where any prosecution might be brought.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

113. From what I know and/or have been able to find...

...unregistered possession is illegal. Possession of a properly registered NFA (Title II) weapon is legal. I could certainly be wrong; I'm not a lawyer.

https://www.atf.gov/file/56341/download

I used to know someone who owned a Title II post '68. It wasn't a grenade or mine.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

35. incorrect

A rifle is a simple tool.
It's use is determined by the person in possession.
Anyone who believes otherwise is also a simple tool.

[Eleanors38]

56. Heh-heh.

[douglasmark497]

36. A Hunting Rifle That is Used As an Assualt Rifle!

Who gives a bleep if they are hunting rifles. These rifles can be used as assault weapons. The question is do we really need an AR-15 out in the marketplace. If you want to defend yourself because you are in a high crime neighborhood, a hand gun will do the job.

[Duckhunter935]

43. Sad thing

Us hand guns are used in much more murders than any rifle. AR 15 rifles are used even less in murders.

[Eleanors38]

51. Correction: "assault rifles" are capable of full auto fire. AR-15s are semi-auto. nt

[LanternWaste]

37. "9 out of 10 doctors say cigarettes are good for you."

And "9 out of 10 doctors say cigarettes are good for you."

The important thing though, is we believe in their incompetent branding as a Truth, react with Fear to "gun-grabbing" when they tell us to, and Buy More Firearms Than You Want... because as a mere $15 billion industry, they are frighted of The Conversation ever taking place.

[Eleanors38]

53. "...frightened of The Conversation ever taking place." It's taking place right now...

...right here in GD. No fear involved on my part.

[Still In Wisconsin]

52. Right, because it takes 30 rounds of .223 FMJ to bring down Bambi. n/t

[Eleanors38]

54. Actually, FMJ (full metal jacket) is NOT a good round in any caliber for deer hunting...

when proper expanding bullets are readily available. Personally, I believe higher calibers are better, and are certainly available in better constructed cartridges (for hunting) in AR platform rifles.

The AR rifles are very popular in Texas for feral hog hunting, where follow-up shots are often needed to kill more animals in a sounder.

[Still In Wisconsin]

91. Don't the non-FMJ rounds tend to jam like crazy in those though?

I don't really know but I thought they did/do.

[Duckhunter935]

96. There are many rounds designed to expand

For hunting. They are designed not to jam. Just do a quick search.

[Duckhunter935]

64. Many states limit magazine size for hunting

[MyNameGoesHere]

83. Is it many, or many, many, many states?

Many people are saying it, many, many many, are saying that. We better believe you. It's being reported everywhere.

[mwrguy]

58. Good thing he will never be president

That job will go to Hillary, and we will have a new AWB with no sunset clause or loopholes.

[Eleanors38]

63. She will have to push a complete ban on semi-auto rifles. She won't go there. nt

[Duckhunter935]

68. Very true, not going to happen.

[mwrguy]

69. and a ban on detachable magazines

It won't happen all at once, but we will get there.

[Duckhunter935]

74. And how do you confiscate the billions

Already produced? Not to mention they are just boxes with springs.

[Hoyt]

76. You mean so-called law-abiding gun owners would not comply with law?

[Duckhunter935]

78. Just like those law abiding people that obey all of those speed limits.

So I guess you are for door to door searches and seizures.

[Hoyt]

89. I agree with you, gun lovers are law-abiding only as long as they can tote and

easily purchase more guns to satiate their sick needs.

[Duckhunter935]

92. Nice insults

[mwrguy]

100. Slowly over time

Ban new manufacture & sales
Ban transfer, so some kid can't inherit grampa's magazines. Most people won't care.
Slowly confiscate and destroy them as people get arrested over the years

It's a long term project

[Duckhunter935]

107. You know it is very easy to 3D print them

Sorry, car is out of the bag. Some people do care and they vote in very high numbers.

For the record. I have no problem with s nan in any over 20 rounds.

[Duckhunter935]

66. So the Sandy Hook rifle would be legal

As it was AWB compliant and Connecticut had an AWB in place at the time.

[Dem2]

70. "if you're a moron"

Why do trolls support a particularly useless weapon (unless you're looking to kill humans)?

[Duckhunter935]

73. Useless, how

[Paladin]

80. I thought "Modern Sporting Rifle" was the current terminology.

Anything to cover up the fact that guns like the AR-15 were in fact originally marketed as "Assault Rifles."

[liberal N proud]

88. Hunting what?

[mwrguy]

101. toddlers, apparently

[Duckhunter935]

108. Only one sick murderer did

Tens of millions do not

[DetlefK]

102. Here's a pic of my hunting-rifle.

[Duckhunter935]

109. Be a pain to aim

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

111. Hunting rifle, righhhhttttt.... have fun picking up your splattered bits of deer meat Gary. This

guy is sounding more like an idiot every day. I had a better impression of him when he kept his mouth shut.

[Odin2005]

112. What a dumb ass, the AR-15 is complete shit for hunting.

It's actually a pretty weak gun, your average deer rifle is more powerful per shot, and is more likely to cause the deer you're hunting to die a long, lingering death rather than kill it outright. The gun nuts like it mainly because it looks "military" and it easy to use.