Reality check: Obama bombed his first debate with Romney back in 2012

[LynneSin]

Last edited Thu Sep 29, 2016, 02:45 PM - Edit history (1)

I know we are all giddy after watching that obese cheeto face idiot fail miserably in the debate with Hillary Clinton. Clinton looked presidential while Trump looked like an unprepared fool.

But there are two more debates. Let's not start celebrating Hillary winning the election until it actually happens! Obama ruled the other two Romney debates. Come Election Day Trumps failure at the first debate will be long forgotten!

Please note: I am not comparing Trump to Obama. I'm comparing 2 debates and the attitude of DU afterwards.

[iandhr]

1. Very true

[Mamajami]

52. Seriously, someone is comparing Trump to Obama?

[RonniePudding]

2. It's apples and oranges

What about Trump's persona suggests he possesses the same discipline and intellect as Obama to drill down to the root of his problems and figure them out, then present them in an appealing way?

Answer: Not a fucking thing, if you've been paying attention.

[LynneSin]

4. I agree but his supporters don't care

And the undecideds fo care but buy into this shit that Hillary is bad.

If the last debate he comes across presidential, that's what voters will remember the most.

Trump was really bad - he has no place but up to go. Only because the media keeps lowering the bar on him.

[RonniePudding]

8. Who cares about his nutbag supporters?

And again, he's not capable of what you're afraid of.

[LynneSin]

34. That if we campaign with your attitude that's when we'll get bit in the butt

I'm sure you remember 2000. Bush wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. He just needed to be close enough in a few swing states in order to steal it.

Every day is a new day in the campaign trail and voters are very forgetful. The have all had almost 30 years of Clinton bashing in the media and unfortunately there are undecided voters out there that still buy into the Clinton Bashing bullshit. And guess what, they find Trump repulsive too and are weighing between those two thoughts.

Time to 5-five after this first debate are done. We should campaign everyday like we are 5 points behind if we want to win in the end!

[RonniePudding]

35. Defeatist nonsense

[LynneSin]

37. Not at all

Just know what happens when we get lazy and assume it's in the bag.

[RonniePudding]

41. Who's doing that?

Answer: nobody.

[LynneSin]

43. You want to do another round of this argument?

I've been through this in 2000 and 2004. I take NOTHING for granted. I am a huge Hillary supporter but I never underestimate the stupidity of voters out there. And by campaigning 'like we are 5 points behind' is an attitude that we never EVER stop campaigning until election day and the votes are called (and court decisions are decided). I also never EVER underestimated that the media is playing this election like a close race because they don't want to lose those ratings.

I love celebrating the wins for our team, but like the NFL, you take the next day off to savor it then you get back to work for the next game.

[RonniePudding]

49. There is no argument

You're scolding people for being happy Hillary won the debate, and then projecting onto them your own irrational fears that somehow everyone thinks this is all wrapped up and we're laying around eating bon bons and watching reruns of the Rockford Files. The only place that is happening is in your imagination.

[NWCorona]

47. You can't be serious with that comment.

I'm actively working on gotv campaigns on college campuses and I can say for a fact that we need all the votes we can get.

[rufus dog]

12. Agree - some major differences

1. Obama was a proven commodity, having already served one term. If he had bombed his first debate with McCain then it would have been a different story.

2. Trump went into the debate with a lot of questions about his stability and knowledge. He failed miserably.

The best comparison is Carter v Reagan. Reagan went into the first debate with numerous questions. He didn't come across as an ass allowing the Republicans to convince others that he was stable.

You have one chance to make a first impression. Trump blew that chance with millions of Americans.

[Cattledog]

15. Dukakis debated Bush not Reagan. You're thinking Carter.

[rufus dog]

17. sorry, correct

will correct original

[Cosmocat]

44. It also was different dyamics

Both BHO and Bush II were incumbents who were not "running" for office, actually knee deep in the job ... Both got their $hit together for the second and third debates.

[AirmensMom]

3. I think a big difference is

that Trump is incapable of looking presidential. I expect he will bomb the next debate as well because of who he is.

Still, you are correct and I will not stop fearing a Trump presidency until the election is called for Hillary.

[LynneSin]

36. My biggest issue - the Media keeps dropping the bar for Trump and raising for Clinton

I think of last Sunday's John Oliver show where he used raisins to compare Trump's lies to Clinton's lies. Clinton was like a regular raisin cookie - there are some questionable things she has said in the past. Then he showed what Trump's cookie would look like and essentially had 20lbs of raisins dumped on him.

The problem is the media is doing everything feasible to keep this race close. That means lowering the bar for Trump. 'Is he breathing and upright? Great Trump looks Presidential'. And then the bar keeps being raised for Hillary - 'Did she Sneeze, did she stumble over some words, did she <fill in the blank> - OMG is this woman qualified to be President?'

[AirmensMom]

54. True. However, the media admits he lost the debate.

Before the debate, I was reading that he would win if he simply showed up and stood the entire time ... or something like that. While they are lying that he "did well in the first 20 minutes," they at least seem to agree that he lost. That gives me some hope that they are coming around. Sometimes it seems like they can't possibly drop the bar any lower.

[LynneSin]

55. Next debate they will say if he just doesn't pick his nose or something else obtuse

and then expect Hillary to be able to recite all the presidents in alphabetical order reciting their birth city, wife's name and how they liked their coffee in order to seem presidential.

[AirmensMom]

57. She'll be able to do it.

He might be tempted to pick if that sniffing continues.

[avebury]

5. While that is true, Trump is no President Obama.

President Obama was smart enough to course correct and win the other two debates. Trump is an idiot (and his own worse enemy) with the attention span of a two year old. Hillary has way way too much ammo to pull out and use and she will better at thinking on her feet. Trump is incapable of thinking and staying focused for any length of time. She needs to throw him a massive curve ball right off the bat and get him of his game.

[alcibiades_mystery]

6. "Come Election Day Trumps failure at the first debate will be long forgotten!"

EDIT: Come Election Day Trumps failure at the first debate may be long forgotten!

There, fixed it for you.

[BeyondGeography]

48. Because the other two were even bigger

[treestar]

7. Don the Con is no Obama

I predict he is just as bad for all debates. He never learns, either.

[FSogol]

9. Bombed? He didn't do as well as expected, but he hardly bombed. That was a close debate.

That's not really a good comparison to HRC's shellacking of Trump on Monday.

I do agree, that it isn't the time to celebrate. GOTV, DU.

[rufus dog]

18. Your description is more accurate

Obama was low energy. Not rude, obnoxious, and ignorant.

[NCTraveler]

21. But your reality doesn't fit the narrative some are trying to create.

Comparing Obama to Trump in this manner is absolute bullshit. Some people are doing everything possible to minimize Trumps truly horrid performance.

[NewJeffCT]

39. While I was disappointed in Obama in 2012

the polls have his first debate performance vs Romney as one of the worst ever, even beating out Trump's loss to Clinton.

[underpants]

46. Let's keep in mind the next one is a town hall

No podium to bark at his crowds or to convey authority.
Another mostly quiet crowd unless he has plants again.
Lots of camera angles - no straight forward shot of him hiding behind a podium.
He will be able to approach Hillary (to intimidate) but he has to be careful.

Etc

Both will have pros and cons to such a format.

[Frank Cannon]

50. Obama found himself debating a very different candidate.

Romney presented himself as an almost 180-degree change from what he'd previously been selling himself as. Obama came prepared to fight a judo match and found out that his opponent was actually a karateka.

Obama came prepared to debate the "new" Romney at subsequent outings and totally destroyed him.

Trump doesn't have any such tricks up his sleeve. Like Hillary said, "This is Donald."

[wishstar]

58. Yes, I had forgotten Romney cleverly (and dishonestly) shape-shifted moderating his stances

Trump lacks the finesse and intelligence to pull off anything like that against Hillary- he is all bullshit and bluster

[vadermike]

10. We

Can't take anything for granted I don't think people will forget the 1st debate unless he totally wins the next two debates meaning Clinton had big mistakes or she said something bad She knows what she's up against I hope the Dem surrogates are ready to battle Too

[Justice]

11. Of course but Post-debate, Obama's supporters did not even try to claim victory

Axlerod said on Monday night that they knew they had lost it in the first 15 minutes and started working on what they had to do differently. Obama knew it too, listened to them, changed his strategy for the remaining debates.

[LAS14]

13. Even if he finally learned how to "pay attention,"....

...can you imagine him learning enough stuff to stand up to Clinton in less than 2 weeks?

[tonyt53]

14. Big big difference. Obama was only reserved. Trump exhibited traits of an idiot.

Just looking at who won, based upon public perception then and public perception now are two very different viewpoints. Nobody said Obama appeared stupid, unbalanced, lacked temperament, or that he may have been sniffling from coke use. Obama was just short with his answers. Romney gave more explicit answers is the only difference. And neither interrupted the other.

The Trumpsters are screaming for blood now, and Donnie will deliver. Sane rational people want answers. If people doubt that Hillary be prepared enough for what Trump will be spewing, they are giving her less credibility for debate #2 than they did for #1. There were may people, including on here, saying she should do this or that and doubting that she would do well. The lady and her campaign are ready for anything Trump throws out. Anything. Debate #2, if there is one, will not go so well for Trump.

[scheming daemons]

16. He didn't have to prove he could be Presidential in the 2nd and 3rd ones though

And he took advice. And he admitted he didn't do well. And he had the ability to be humble and work to get better.

Trump doesnt.

[titaniumsalute]

19. Well yes but let's look at some differences

Yes Obama "lost" the first debate. He looked somewhat un-prepared and didn't go for any knock-out type one-liners or aggressiveness. Romney did.

1. I've tried to think how Trump might "act" in round two. If he comes out all calm, collected, and lethargic versus his usual bombastic self...I think his actual fans will hate it. Plus it will look rather odd for him to be like that.

2. Also, how in the world within a week will he actually learn how to debate and learn the content? I don't think he's even remotely interested in learning anything nor do I think his ego will allow him to sit and a mock debate room and practice. (Unlike Obama probably did after his failure.)

3. Well Obama also didn't have to deal with this Cuba embargo violation thing either. Plus his Mochado comments over and over again.

We'll see. But I think he will really struggle in all debates. It was his forte during the primaries...but one on one not so much with a heavy hitter.

[NCTraveler]

20. It's offensive comparing Obamas intelligence and demeanor to Trump.

Total apples and oranges.

It's similarly offensive to call Obamas first debate performance to have been anything close to the colossal failure that Trump put forward.

"Come Election Day Trumps failure at the first debate will be long forgotten!"

Racists are banking on it.

[LynneSin]

30. I wasn't comparing that

Mind you that was typed on an iphone so perhaps more details were needed.

I remember DU all 'Doom and Gloom' that Obama was going to lose because of that one shitty debate.

I can't imagine how anyone can vote for that idiot Trump but people out there either like him or just hate Hillary that much even though they know Trump is an idiot.

We cannot slack off on our campaigning just because of one very awesome debate for Hillary. There are 3 more and in the end the voters out there are only going to remember what happened last.

[NCTraveler]

59. It is exactly what you did, and have done so again here.

"I remember DU all 'Doom and Gloom' that Obama was going to lose because of that one shitty debate."

Trump does not hold the intelligence, temperament, or knowledge to do what Obama did.

That is what you are doing. Making a distinction that Trump could do what Obama did. That is exactly and directly what you are saying.

[procon]

22. Yuge difference: Obama didn't 'bomb' because he was an unprepared, lying ignoramus.

It was a contrast in attitudes, but even with Obama's subdued performance, no one questioned his knowledge and understanding of the issues.

[Johnny2X2X]

23. Hillary is going to be prepared for whatever Trump is like in round 2.

And this is different than Obama. No one thought Obama wasn't capable of doing the job because he was already the President. Trump had huge problems with temperament and he totally validated those problems. This is much like the Khan optics, the DNC was all about how his temperament was all wrong and then Trump immediately showed that everything they said was right. Hillary reiterated those points in the debate and Trump then stood over there proving her right with his babbling. And this attacking of Ms. Universe after is making it worse for him.

He simply proved to the undecideds that he was unfit. You can't un-ring that bell in time for election day.

[Grown2Hate]

24. Another important difference: President Obama went into that first debate with a lead in the

polls (3-5% points). He could afford an "off" night. Rmoney caught up in the polls and essentially pulled even after that first debate (until the next two debates, and we all know how that went).

In this case, Trump had to just show he could be "Presidential" and not a complete toddler in front of a YUUUGE national audience (and a lot of people that are just finally starting to pay attention). He was trailing (even if slightly) in all/most polls prior to the debate, so he could not afford a poor performance.

He failed by any measure.

It's only going to get WORSE for him in the next two debates. I'm confident.

[Adrahil]

25. 2 things....

1) Romney was behind going into that debate. He closed in the polls after that debate, and Obama never completely recovered, though ultimately it did not matter as Romney never overtook him.

2) Obama was off his game that debate for sure, but we KNEW he was a good debater from previous experience. Trump was pretty much always like Trump is. That's who he is. That's what he is capable of. If he's not on a teleprompter, that's what he will do.

[LynneSin]

32. Oh I know that, which is why I wasn't all 'Doom & Gloom' on DU after that debate

But if you were at DU 4 years ago after that first date we had people ready to write off Obama because of the first debate.

In the end this first debate for Clinton/Trump won't matter on election day. Voters seem to act like gnats with ADHD and forget everything but what happened in the most recent memory.

Hillary is the most presidential but it seems like the media keeps raising the bar on her and lowering it for Donald.

[qwlauren35]

26. I remember

it crushed me to see Obama do so poorly in that debate. But he recovered.

Good reminder.

[lillypaddle]

27. Can't compare Pres. Obama

with Trump in the debate. No, not in a million years.

[LynneSin]

33. I'm comparing the debates and attitudes

And that the first debate will long be gone come election day. We need to campaign strong until the last minute.

[lillypaddle]

40. To clarify

Obama performed in a lackluster way in that first debate. He acted like it was a chore for him to be there, up against Romney. As he said, it was bad enough that he almost gave Chris Matthews stroke. So yes, he lost that one, but it is still no comparison to the orange one's lack of content, bluster, sputters, and sniffling.

I do agree that we can't rest on Hillary's laurels from the debate, and we must campaign strongly until the last minute.

[UMTerp01]

28. Another reality check: Obama was leading in the polls in 2012

If Trump was leading in the polls, he could've afforded an off night. But he wasn't leading in the polls and his momentum had recently been stopped and had actually slightly started shifting backward. So bombing the first debate was something he needed to avoid at all costs.

Now as long as Trump doesn't start making monkey noises at the next debate I'm sure the MSM will say how dramatically Trump improved in the second debate vs the first. But the best he could do is maybe come to a draw with Hillary. He will never beat her in debating. He doesn't have the skill. No teleprompters and no notes.

So the factors are a bit different here, but overall, yes I see the point you are trying to make.

[The_Casual_Observer]

29. There is a good possibility that trump will go nuts

At this next debate and go for the personal attacks. I believe that Hillary is well prepared for this. If he does as badly as the first there won't be a 3rd.

The only thing he has going for him is that it's a town hall setting and not formal.

[Frank Cannon]

51. The town hall setting does not help him.

He is not a man who has any empathy whatsoever for "the average American" and the personal challenges they are facing. That's what the town hall setting is supposed to present.

"Going nuts" and leveling personal attacks and racist rhetoric are only going to hurt him. That's not going to help Madge, the single mom who's an RN, working four 12-hour shifts a week, and is selling dried flower arrangements from her backyard on the side to try to afford coats for her kids this winter, while at the same time trying to be a "good mom" to her kids so they don't get in trouble at school. Do you think that Donald Trump has any concept or clue what that's like? Do you think he can present that understanding at the next debate?

[GulfCoast66]

65. The town hall will kill him

He talks down to people and incapable of showing empathy because he is incapable of feeling empathy.

Plus you just know he is going to go low with his attacks on Hillary and the horrified look on people's faces will sink him.

[anamnua]

31. To echo the OP

Kerry won the debates 3:0 in 2004.

[Sunlei]

38. The Republican is way out of his league, he'll never be good in debates. The man really is unfit.

He's not even a good 'actor' on his TV show. I guess those close to him enable that behavior. That happens with many wealthy 'eccentrics'.

[Johnny2X2X]

42. Another couple differences

Obama did in fact lose the 1st debate to Romney, but his expectations were also to win. Trump was expected to lose and he did way worse than expected. Also, there are a large portion of Trump supporters who never would admit he lost in surveys no matter what. I think this defeat was way way more resounding because the bar was set so low for Trump.

Probably the most decisive defeat in Presidential Debate history.

Also, the reasons for the defeat are more damning. Obama lost because Romney was better prepared to answer the issues. Trump lost because he lost his temper and was easily rattled as well as being totally clueless on the issues.

[Rocknrule]

45. Kerry also won every debate against Shrub

but that didn't stop America from making one of its worst mistakes ever

[muntrv]

53. Remember, John Kerry won all the debates with Shrub and still lost.

[BobbyDrake]

56. You absolutely are comparing Obama and Trump.

Thanks for the laughs though.

[book_worm]

60. Reality check: Trump is no Obama

[radius777]

61. Agree, especially since Trump is unpredictable,

which is why our side must keep up the pressure and not take anything for granted.

[okieinpain]

62. yeah and he also tweeted at 3am about a

sex tape.

[grossproffit]

63. Romney was behind.

[Todays_Illusion]

64. I don't recall that President Obama bombed, I recall that Romney was allowed to tell many lies and

was then rewarded by the media calling him the winner by not mentioning the lies.

[TheKentuckian]

66. Obama didn't present as a know nothing dumbass with the temperament of a Tasmanian Devil on crack

He had a command of the facts and I would say even won on content, he lost almost purely on the performance elements of the equation.

Obama's performance was also a deviation from his typical. I don't think Trump was especially off his game, it's just he wasn't up against other carnival barkers arguing who is the most rootin' tootin', Fundamentalist ass kissing, drill baby drill cheering, bigoted, racist, polluting, avarice embracing, shrink the pig motherfucker on God's Green Earth.

Against Clinton he is dealing with someone with command of information that isn't completely shackled to a wide variety of weapons grade stupid nonsense and general but stunningly deep deplorableness.

Trump really has far more severe issues. This isn't about a sharper edge, not being listless, and being more aggressive in approach. The Hammy Yam can theoretically present a better performance but he has little to no chance of bridging the knowledge gap and perhaps has a tougher road to both bridle his tongue and rein his reactions in.

I get what you are saying for sure but only the context is comparable not the capability of the player. Maybe (I mean like in a theoretically...I guess??? kinda way) he can take enough elephant tranquilizers to not act like an ass for a couple hours but the knowledge gap is a tall mountain in a week and a half.

He just has to go too far from his nature and above his level of knowledge to get to even plausibly passable.