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forgotmylogin

(7,453 posts)
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 10:09 AM Oct 2016

It really is just because she's a woman, right?

I started a political Twitter fight the other day (sometimes I feel feisty and like scrapping with the other side) It ended up with me basically conceding "Okay you've all convinced me, I'll vote for Trump, bye" just to withdraw because I had work to do, and they were all sniggering amongst themselves that I couldn't "keep up" in real time because my responses weren't instantaneous like it was live chat.

I was fine with all the "because Hillary has murdered hundreds of people" and the "because Bill did..." lines of argument The one that I had trouble answering was "What has Hillary accomplished?" I know she's had a long life in politics, been a Senator and SoS...but somehow anything you tell them is not any kind of valid answer. I like Samantha Bee's "Oh yeah, because the First Lady of Arkansas is who they consult to write tax code" answer but that didn't really apply. She did a ton of work in those roles, and her name is on (I think she said) over 600 pieces of legislation, but that all doesn't apply because she's a "murderer whose killed people with her bare hands" and "despicable because she let Bill off the hook" and "Benghazi" and "delivered secret emails containing all teh info" directly to ISIS" whatever. As usual, any solid hit I landed on Trump resulted in a non-sequitur insult ("get a job libtard&quot

Is there a good comeback for the "Hillary hasn't accomplished anything" accusation? I linked them to several websites with lists, but of course they were all "lib'rul media" sites and didn't count.

I know I shouldn't pick fights because their arguments are unreasonable. The most comical part was when they were all sniggering because I hadn't responded in like five minutes because I was actually finishing a report for work on the other screen next to my laptop. "Oh he's still thinking of an answer" "Oh, he's left us cause he has no answer" and someone random chimed in "these worthless libtards need to get a job"...as I'm doing my job.

Overall my impression though is that there's this extra layer of evil frosting on their hatred for Hillary. They hate Bill too but the invective doesn't have quite the extra slime of nastiness. The only thing I can guess is because she's a woman, and they have to resist saying that.

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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It really is just because she's a woman, right? (Original Post) forgotmylogin Oct 2016 OP
A woman and worse a woman named Clinton. TexasProgresive Oct 2016 #1
Not entirely. Cracklin Charlie Oct 2016 #2
No, they fear the communities being organized Nevernose Oct 2016 #21
Yep, a woman who has not ever known her place. They can't stand it. nt prayin4rain Oct 2016 #3
send them this link PunkinPi Oct 2016 #4
That's a great link... forgotmylogin Oct 2016 #5
Don't waste your time. Mz Pip Oct 2016 #7
I agree, good advice. forgotmylogin Oct 2016 #8
It's not what "she says", these are facts... PunkinPi Oct 2016 #9
Oh, I totally agree. forgotmylogin Oct 2016 #10
Some man openly said the words WhiteTara Oct 2016 #6
YES! - I have been thinking about this question for some time - asiliveandbreathe Oct 2016 #11
Yes. liberalmuse Oct 2016 #12
And the other part, sadly, is forgotmylogin Oct 2016 #15
she has 400 pieces of legislation with her name on it...instead of 400 bankruptcies Cakes488 Oct 2016 #13
extra level of evil frosting treestar Oct 2016 #14
A woman and a progressive at that meow2u3 Oct 2016 #16
Morgan Freeman narrates Hillary Clinton DNC biography video Madam45for2923 Oct 2016 #17
The peculiar intensity of the anti-Hillary sentiment is almost certainly due primarily to misogyny ColemanMaskell Oct 2016 #18
Not entirely. Lucinda Oct 2016 #19
I don't think so Bigredhunk Oct 2016 #20

TexasProgresive

(12,135 posts)
1. A woman and worse a woman named Clinton.
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 10:24 AM
Oct 2016

It wasn't Big Dawg's sexual peccadillo that pissed off the pukes. It's that he balanced the budget and was paying down the debt by, oh the horror, the humanity! of raising taxes. They will never forgive him for that even though they will never mention it.

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)
21. No, they fear the communities being organized
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 04:23 PM
Oct 2016

People with more melanin or less money or a different language. They seem to be terrified of EVERYTHING.

forgotmylogin

(7,453 posts)
5. That's a great link...
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 10:44 AM
Oct 2016

But of course they're going to respond "You can't trust what she says about her accomplishments!"

I think the only thing I could have said was "First, name me one political accomplishment teh Donald has made in official government capacity, and then I'm happy to discuss Hillary's."

Mz Pip

(27,362 posts)
7. Don't waste your time.
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 10:49 AM
Oct 2016

Go for a walk. Volunteer somewhere. Adopt a puppy. Don't waste your time and energy trying to educate the Hillary haters. The cognitive dissonance is strong in those folks and all they will do is hang on to their allusions even tighter.

forgotmylogin

(7,453 posts)
8. I agree, good advice.
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 10:50 AM
Oct 2016

They've got their own little bit of cyberspace marked out in Les Nessman tape, and it's best not to question it.

PunkinPi

(4,863 posts)
9. It's not what "she says", these are facts...
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 10:54 AM
Oct 2016

all completely verifiable to those who choose reality. Unfortunately trump supporters don't usually choose reality and opt to believe the lies, fear, and hatred that they are being fed (and that supports their preexisting ignorance and bias).

forgotmylogin

(7,453 posts)
10. Oh, I totally agree.
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 11:01 AM
Oct 2016

But they'll see hillaryclinton.com in the link or click it and see the donation banner pop up and immediately *say* it's biased. As suggested, there's little to be done if a person in the desert yells for water and you hand them a glass of water and they bat it away saying "THAT'S NOT WATER!"

WhiteTara

(29,635 posts)
6. Some man openly said the words
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 10:46 AM
Oct 2016

It's better to have a president who gropes vaginas, than to have a president who has one.

The hatred of women is long standing. It's been less than 150 years since it was preached from the pulpit to beat your wife for the good of her moral soul.

Just recently the president of Nigeria told his wife to go to the kitchen when she dared to dispute him in public. Ben Carson requested the microphone of a woman reporter be cut since she was asking him questions. Then he wanted them to put a plug in her mouth. Daily occurrences in the lives of women.

asiliveandbreathe

(8,138 posts)
11. YES! - I have been thinking about this question for some time -
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 11:09 AM
Oct 2016

My answer is YES - and here is why....understanding I have no inside knowledge, just a high level of awareness through what I read. Through the years, since Hillary came on the scene, she has been a force for women, children and families. She has been politically active since the Goldwater campaign - and yes, she was a Goldwater gal...then she moved center from Goldwater - good move.

Keep in mind, this whole untrustworthiness, purely political....


As first Lady of Arkansas she worked diligently on education issues..I did watch the documentary and gained even more insight as to her character, you cannot hide from the camera. She is Wellesley grad (I'm from same era, and Massachusetts, Wellesley College, fabulous learning environment - very high academic requirements to qualify for acceptance) - and here is her commencement speech..

http://www.wellesley.edu/events/commencement/archives/1969commencement/studentspeech#yftXZal6lWpqu5Uy.97

....snip....

1969 grad - the challenge now is to practice politics as the art of making what appears to be impossible possible. What does it mean to hear that 13.3 percent of the people in this country are below the poverty line? That's a percentage. We're not interested in social reconstruction; it's human reconstruction - she talks further about integrity, trust and respect....

During the Healthcare debate during Bill Clintons first presidency, this is where the rub took place..the men in congress felt threatened, therefore the start of the untrustworthiness..created and nurtured by weak minded men..



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan_of_1993

this ....snip...on Hillary 1993..hey look - it's Kristol...

Prominent opposition to the Clinton plan was led by William Kristol and his policy group Project for the Republican Future, which is widely credited with orchestrating the plan's defeat through a series of now legendary "policy memos" faxed to Republican leaders.[13]
The long-term political effects of a successful... health care bill will be even worse—much worse.... It will revive the reputation of... Democrats as the generous protector of middle-class interests. And it will at the same time strike a punishing blow against Republican claims to defend the middle class by restraining government.

—?William Kristol, "Defeating President Clinton's Healthcare Proposal", December 1993



And then there is this review..re Hillary and Healthcare...

http://www.beckershospitalreview.com/hospital-management-administration/things-to-know-about-hillary-clinton-s-views-on-healthcare.html

And this -

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/feed/seven-hillary-clintons-biggest-accomplishments/

be well..we can do this....

liberalmuse

(18,667 posts)
12. Yes.
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 11:34 AM
Oct 2016

The attacks on her started because she didn't play the traditional First Lady role when her husband was Governor and then President. She's a strong, ambitious woman in what is still a man's world, and the right wing, especially the evangelicals, see this as proof she is "evil". Women should be submissive. They've spent decades lying about her because she had the gall to be a very strong, and admired woman.

forgotmylogin

(7,453 posts)
15. And the other part, sadly, is
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 01:26 PM
Oct 2016

a lot of these people probably feel "safer" taking the brakes off of the invective they will level at a woman. With a man, there is always the (metaphorically) perceived notion of a chance that he might turn around and punch them in the face in retaliation. But I'd conjecture that many of them have the idea that a woman would never do that and they can insult her far more safely—even if they are themselves a coward.

 

Cakes488

(874 posts)
13. she has 400 pieces of legislation with her name on it...instead of 400 bankruptcies
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 11:37 AM
Oct 2016

And drive home that's the reason why he won't release his taxes..it shows his financial failures

treestar

(82,383 posts)
14. extra level of evil frosting
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 11:38 AM
Oct 2016

I like it. I knew right wingers would not like a Democratic President even if he were a right male, but when Obama was sworn in, they had that extra level of hysteria that did not exist for Bill Clinton. Likewise they would of course oppose Hillary as a Democrat, but there will be that extra layer of hysteria. And directly following the first black POTUS - they likely think their world is coming to an end.

meow2u3

(24,731 posts)
16. A woman and a progressive at that
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 01:31 PM
Oct 2016

Repukes would tolerate a conservative woman because she'd take orders from her male advisors. Hillary doesn't take shit from RWNJs who think they know more than God; that's their problem with her.

 

Madam45for2923

(7,178 posts)
17. Morgan Freeman narrates Hillary Clinton DNC biography video
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 01:38 PM
Oct 2016



I like this Bio of Hillary from the DNC Convention.

ColemanMaskell

(783 posts)
18. The peculiar intensity of the anti-Hillary sentiment is almost certainly due primarily to misogyny
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 03:49 PM
Oct 2016

While the right wing would naturally be in opposition to any Democrat, more so any progressive, the unique intensity of the anti-Hillary fervor is impossible to explain except in light of the fact that she is a strong woman who opposes the white male authoritarian patriarchal tradition. Obama was similarly the recipient of irrationally intense opposition grounded in racism. When Hillary comes as a follow-up act to Obama, it becomes obvious that this is a trend and not an anomaly.

The country is peacefully moving away from traditional white male domination. Those who are emotionally committed to the old order are not willing to go quietly into that dark night. As others have said above, it is useless to try to reach them with reasoned argument. Rarely can you combat emotion with logic. The scandalous tapes have some ability to prevail because they bring in a stronger emotional argument to combat the rival emotional argument.

Happily the committed lunatics are only a small fraction of the population. The biggest single group apparently is white men over 50. While the group is not to be disregarded entirely as a threat to peace and security, it is not the demographic most calculated to instill fear in the heart. Relax and don't argue with them. Campaign and get out the vote.

Lucinda

(31,148 posts)
19. Not entirely.
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 03:54 PM
Oct 2016

It's also because she is smarter than they are, and she is capable of getting stuff done.
The GOP exist on inertia. Anyone who is capable of solving problems, rocks their little blame game that keeps them winning reelection.

Bigredhunk

(1,342 posts)
20. I don't think so
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 04:19 PM
Oct 2016

As there was racism with President Obama, there'll be sexism with HRC. But I think people are mistaken when they say it's racism/sexism. The vast majority of the hate is because there's a D behind their names. A vast majority of them would be fine with Herman Cain or Nikki Haley. It's the crazy rw bubble fuming because a Democrat is never supposed to be elected. They wouldn't say the racist/sexist stuff about an African American or a female r.

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