The backlash against posters who are concerned about the election

[Txbluedog]

I am disgusted by long time DU posters and their attitude towards posters who are genuinely concerned about a tightening national race:

The goal was never just to have Hillary become 45. It was to get as many democrats and liberals in positions of power as possible.

Yes, some of us are genuinely concerned about the race. I live in TX and am in a position to see ground reality on a daily basis and many, many republicans are coming out of the woodwork saying that they are going to vote this year after all, mainly due to the new FBI information. They do not like or support Trump but now are reminded that they don't like or trust Hillary more and a vote for Trump is more about stopping Hillary than supporting the orange buffoon.

You will say so what, Hillary was never going to win TX anyways. Again, this is not about the presidential race but down ballot races. A higher republican turnout means that democrats will probably not make the down ballot gains they could have otherwise. And this is VERY IMPORTANT. The last 8 years have proved beyond a doubt that without significant gains on the congressional, state and even local levels, a democrat in the WH is not going to get much accomplished.

So, please do not write off the concerns of your fellow DU posters as unwarranted hysteria or worse, trolling. This election is a much bigger fight than getting the next POTUS elected.

[Iggo]

1. Meta!

[C Moon]

85. :D

[Dem2]

2. Some people can barely function at the levels of anxiety that they are under already

How about also being considerate of the emotional state of likely a majority of people who come here to escape the insanity of the MSM and social media?

[ProudProgressiveNow]

14. +1 nt

[BlueCaliDem]

18. +2 eom

[Maven]

29. +3

[Divine Discontent]

41. I would politely suggest the topics forums for those that want to avoid their already heightened

anxiety. If there are some who are exactly as you describe who are escaping MSM BS, or avoid threads that clearly have titles that they know they won't like.

GD 2016 is a forum for discussion of serious and frustrating issues within the election on all points of positive/negative aspects.

I appreciate the sensitivity of some who are bothered when people bring up how it 'doesn't look good in (state)', or people saying they're so nervous, but, we all are. None of us want that orange bastard to become president, and GD:2016 is exactly where the posts like that should be.

But, fellow posters getting on people for being nervous or posting OPs that aren't glowingly positive, well, it is not anyone's right to tell someone, "concern noted", that's just acting like a child.

[Dem2]

43. I just trash the stupid whining by flailing fools who appear to never have experienced an election

before.

But many of these so-called "concern" people are doing it on purpose to depress Democratic voter turnout, so it's a legitimate complain.

[Divine Discontent]

55. Well, that's positive.

It's a case-by-case situation, for sure. We've seen the people who do nothing but try to depress voter turnout, and surely those who are on here a lot know exactly who those few are.

I also see people, however, with well worded, intellectually arguable points getting brazenly insulted by folks who actually are the ones too concerned that some random OP or reply by someone is going to throw the election. Again, all a matter of who we're talking about! LOL

You probably saw it, but I posted an amazing video for "What He Believes", I truly wish we could make every American voter see it! Trump is such a horrible person...

[Dem2]

61. I complain about some of the naval gazing and "OMG!!!11!! did you hear what Morning Joe (Tweety

/Andrea Mitchell) just said!!!!!"

But I generally wouldn't consider attacking a well reasoned post. I may hide it because I know that knowing everything won't change the outcome and I do need to keep a positive outlook for people who look to me for sanity.

[Divine Discontent]

63. ugh, Morning Joe/Tweety/Andrea.. that's rough, I know. Folks are mostly like us, they know a

well-reasoned member from a constant negative ned or nancy!



Stay strong! We gotta win this thing!

[True Dough]

80. A fine suggestion, Divine Discontent

It's interesting how there is such backlash against "safe zones" at universities, but some DU forum members would like this discussion board turned into a safe zone, so to speak.

[Divine Discontent]

106. Thanks, TD! :) n/t

[Democat]

46. The goal of these trolls is to discourage Democrats from voting

They are so bold that they start threads complaining when they get banned for spreading right wing talking points.

[Separation]

86. I doubt

Anyone on this site is going to be discouraged from voting. No matter what somebody may post.

[Iggo]

91. That's still the goal, thogh.

[Demsrule86]

116. They have gotten very bold...but

we know who they are.

[Gothmog]

135. The concern trolls are just trying to suppress or depress the vote

[lark]

79. I was having minor panic attacks over the weekend from this.

What was the concern - that she will still be president but will have Repug House and Senate and absolutely nothing will change for the better and she will have to fight hard to maintain the status quo. Sorry, this may be stupid in some folks eyes, but I am really afraid. Also, did anyone miss the article from the prominent Israeli paper comparing Drumpf to Hitler, very many similarities. FBI refusing to name Russia when other agencies aren't makes me fear Comey too might be in league with them and throwing the election on purpose. Even if it's just the Repugs that he cares about, by promoting the puppet, he's helping Russia and would rather do that than play fair with Clinton. These are all scary things to some of us.

[Nay]

109. IMO, this is very likely to happen. Another kneecapped minority president who

can't get anything done except nominations of Republicans for high public office. Big fat help THAT'S gonna be. And then, in 2020 when the Pubs finally dragoon someone who can present himself as a 'normal' Pub, the Pub wins and begins revising history to show how lousy and ineffectual the past 16 years of Dem presidency was. I can write it all out right now. I've been predicting nearly all this shit for 35 years, and I'm tired of being correct.

[adigal]

110. Yes, so mocking people who are anxious is very helpful and kind, also nt

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

3. I got accused to being a concern troll before too and it's not cool

Many people lurk and only read but don't post here...and have for many years. This election is frightening for a lot of people and it's quite unnerving so it's not surprising that more people are speaking up this time around.

I think there could be some trolling going on, but accusations should not be thrown around every time someone with a low post count posts something. That's just dumb.

[demmiblue]

12. The people who are allowing those comments to stand should be exempt from jury duty.

Skinner himself said that he would exempt those who don't follow the ToS when making a jury decision, yet it is becoming more and more common.

[Demsrule86]

22. So appeal it.

I don't think you will win much. Most of those called out have altered the post in some way to make it look worse than it is. I for one am glad we don't have attacks on Democrats on this site.

[demmiblue]

27. Appeal what? I have chosen not to serve on juries, so there is nothing to appeal.

I am not glad that we have trolls on DU... the ones you mentioned, as well as those who try to pit DUers against each other. Both are toxic. And both are obvious.

[Demsrule86]

35. You can not appeal a decision if you are on a jury...only if you think you have been wrongly accused

[emulatorloo]

77. How will there be fair juries if you refuse to serve?

How can you change the jury system if you won't participate and change it?

I am happy to serve on every jury I am called on. I try to do it fairly with no bias or prejudice

You seem exactly the kind of person who should be serving on juries.

[LP2K12]

36. Agreed.

100%.

[Divine Discontent]

57. Rules are against people saying "concern noted" or other childish/trollish taunts

Of course, if someone's worries are worrisome to the point that they're posting nothing but negativity, well, they can be talked to.

We're all under stress because it's a week before the election ---- Let's support each other. And actually, if possible for anyone who has the time, to be more active in GOTV in any way we can, whether that be on Twitter replying to people's comments or posting stories, FB posting articles to educate those who aren't already voting Hillary, news sites, making phone bank calls, or canvassing. I haven't been on DU as much as I had been in the prior weeks, because we have work to do!

We need to win these 4 or 5 tossup states to prevent the Orange Groper from becoming president - let's remember that!


[center]

[Foggyhill]

4. Many actually the info, misuse it

So people should just let that stand

The use of polling data when not knowing how pollls work is the worse

Being concerned about email cover 24/7 , yes that is a valid concern.

But what the hell are we going to do about it, run around in circle pulling our hair or offer something constructive

[Jason1961]

5. Well said

The Debbie Downers are easy enough to ignore but people shouldn't be labled a "Troll" just for sharing something that isn't good news

[Democat]

45. A user with 200 posts posting pro Trump news should be banned

That's called a troll.

[Nay]

111. Yep. I've been on juries and I vote against all those people. I'm done being

nice to these shitheads.

[Demsrule86]

115. I agree we support Democrats here.

[berksdem]

6. Thank you for

saying this... I am new to the site and frankly a little put-off by some of the DUers. I stated that I was concerned in a few threads and was treated like I was a of lesser intelligence. Then I see a post about the "concerned trolls" and it really made me question why I even signed up.

I am not a troll and very much concerned. It does not.make me a troll but if that is how this place operates than I have two options: 1. Never come back or 2. Buy into the nonsense this election will be a landslide and not have my own opinion.

Not exactly inviting to newer posters.... elitism is not really what I came here for.

[progressoid]

67. Don't worry about them.

I was accused of stuff too back in the day.

Because we get a fair amount of disruptors and trolls, we are often skeptical of new people. Hang in there, it gets better!

[Demsrule86]

118. And although I was still lurking...I well remember what happened in 2004 when the trolls

came out after Kerry lost. It was horrifying.

[emulatorloo]

74. Big mix of people on DU. Don't be put off by a handful of posters

In general it is a great community and I think you'll like it!

Welcome to DU!

[Gothmog]

136. Members of DU are typically very well informed and do not need this concern

I live in Texas which will turn blue some day. I deal with real world issues and negativity all of the time. If you are concerned, then do more than express your concern and propose actions. In Texas, I am training poll watchers and helping voter protection efforts. Even with the court rulings on voter id, there is a ton of voter suppression going on in Texas.

Instead of worrying about concerns, it is far better to be active and try to change things. Texas will turn blue. Dallas and Travis countries are blue already and Harris County will be very blue this cycle.

[Ace Rothstein]

7. I don't understand how it isn't concerning that the election has tightened the last 2 weeks.

And we still have a week to go.

[Demsrule86]

24. I see no evidence of a tightening race.

She was always going to win...it is very hard for any GOP to win the electoral college these days...we start with about 240 and Trump is a crappy candidate...we are about to have the Siberian candidate outed too...can't wait! That being said, we need to destroy Trump in an election landslide...so we can restore our good name...that such a candidate ever won a primary is disgraceful.

[Ace Rothstein]

88. All of the aggregators are showing a tightening race.

Two weeks ago we were looking at 350-400 EVs, now we might be looking at just over 270 EVs. I think she'll still win but I feel like the Senate is slipping away.

[Demsrule86]

121. I don't see it...

I look at polls and the internals...and the outliers and I think she will win decisively.

[Demsrule86]

132. I am tellling you...we are going to get over 300...mark my words. nt

[kcr]

145. Hardly anyone is talking about the Senate. That is truly something to be concerned about.

The Presidency? Nah, she's got that one. Anyone concerned about that is worrying over nothing. But I really wish there was more focus on the Senate race, and not just here on DU. Hardly anyone is covering it anywhere, it seems.

[jonno99]

126. +1000! nt

[JTFrog]

8. There will always be concern trolls here. Trolls are unfortunate part of the internet.

A lot of the Debbie Downer posts are constructed by trolls whose sole purpose is to spread FUD. Especially those that go so far as to change headlines and misrepresent articles. Some of them have just showed up and some of them have been spreading their special brand of criticism for years trying to stay under the radar.

Personally, I'm all for sunshine and calling them out.

[vdogg]

17. Exactly. I will call it out every time I see it.

But Op's concern is noted.

[Stonepounder]

71. OK, here's a question for all you "Concern Troll' hunters.

How do you tell the difference between a Concern Troll and someone who actually IS concerned? Not necessarily about Hillary losing, but getting Hillary elected with a Republican majority in both the House and Senate? Or who is bothered by seeing Hillary's chances of winning drop 15% in just 15 days on 538? Or is a little rattled by hearing sitting Senators (R) say that if Hillary wins they will keep 8 (or 7 or 6) Supreme Court judges because they won't allow a single hearing on any nominee until there is a Republican in the White House?

Sometimes people just want a place where they can vent off a little concern or anxiety without having to lay out the mega-problems facing the US in this election. The fact that somewhere in excess of 40% of voters actually want Donald Trump for their President ought to give all of you the screaming memes. Regardless of how this election turns out we have to recognize that we have a really big problem here in the US, one that is scary as Hell and one that we somehow have to figure out how to deal with; particularly if we have a D Executive and an R Congress.

And don't even suggest that I have never watched an election before. I have been pretty much glued to coverage every election night since Eisenhower's 2nd term. So don't call me a Concern Troll, call me a Concern(ed) Voter!

[JTFrog]

81. Newly signed up accounts, posters with a history of never supporting our candidate,

posters who glom onto any and every negative and start screaming the sky is falling... there are many ways to tell the difference.

Those that have shown their support but are concerned over issues in the news the last few days aren't being called concern trolls.

There is a big difference. Not sure why it riles so many feathers to call out the trolls. Long time DU tradition. Especially during elections season when they decide to crawl out of the woodwork.

[Stonepounder]

84. Well, I've been a member since 2010

and, as you can see, while I may not be the most prolific poster, I do post on a fairly regular basis. And I have been called a Concern Troll (within the last month) and told to hide back under my rock.

So, yeah, sometimes I do get a little ruffled over the topic.

[musicblind]

148. I was called a "concern troll" and I've been here since 2007. n/t

[duffyduff]

9. Another day, another thread to trash.

n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

10. Concerned about Concern about Concern: Election Hell, 8th Circle

They do not like or support Trump but now are reminded that they don't like or trust Hillary more and a vote for Trump is more about stopping Hillary than supporting the orange buffoon.

Concerned!

[Runningdawg]

11. For those of us living in red states

it's not just the TV/internet obsession with the election, it's the people around us. When you are exposed to people who joke, belittle and insult Obama, Hillary and all liberals on a daily basis, when you hear what they would like to do to YOU, what they plan to do to YOU and your family when Trump is elected, yeah I think it raises the anxiety bar just a little bit more. That is one of the reasons I signed up here during the primaries. I need a voice of reason to ground me, to pull me back to the median, to know I am not alone.

[PunksMom]

60. That is exactly why I'm here!

[Blue Idaho]

13. How does expressing your concerns on an online forum change anything?

Posting on DU will have about zero effect on the outcome of the election. If you are concerned - switch off the computer and TV, walk out of your house, find the nearest local Democratic Office and sign up to help. Or contact the national HQ and sign up to make calls. Or donate money - if you can.

The point is, worrying never fixed anything. Not. One. Thing. If you are concerned - you need to get into action. That will do two things... first, it will help you sleep better and second, you will actually help build a stronger Democratic base in your community and state.

Just posting the 20th or 30th concern post of the day - or complaining that others aren't as concerned as you are is just bound to raise the ire of people who really are WORKING to elect Democrats.

Good Luck and Take Care.

[SouthernProgressive]

15. "I am disgusted by long time DU posters"

I'm disgusted by Trump and his basket of deplorables.

[Blue_Adept]

19. Every four years, the same thing

Longtime political watchers know this.

They also know how things are "tightened" through application of specific types of polling.

They also tire, after detailing why so many times, that the concern is ridiculous.

It's not like they just come out and say "concern troll!"

It comes from trying to explain it and some longtime folks who even after being here through the 4, 8, and 12 cycles STILL don't get it and see the sky as falling.

If you're going to pull your hair out and run around screaming because the polls are tightening, there's a reason that longtime members are rolling their eyes at you and/or just laughing.

Remember, for as much as people are saying this is an election unlike any other, ALL THE METRICS from those that work in this business are saying this is the MOST STABLE ELECTION EVER.

[andym]

20. Nothing can be done about the polls themselves, but a close election means gotv

And that should be motivating everyone at this site to gotv.

[Avalux]

21. It's difficult to know the motivations behind "the sky is falling" posts.

Could be GOTV Dems who are worriers and have a real concern. Could be trolls coming here to get people worked up.

Try not to take it personally if a DUer gets the motivation wrong. We are all on edge right now whether we want to admit it or not.

[Jarqui]

23. I do not care for muzzling any one's opinion

I may not agree with them but I agree with their right to share their thoughts.

Anyone who witnessed what happened last Friday with Comey and wasn't concerned with the integrity of the election is intellectually numb. Allow that we're different human beings and can react differently.

Too often, in my view, some posters at DU.com are inclined to muzzle opinion that doesn't fit with popular feelings around here. Often, in my case, it's been accusations of spewing right wing talking points or FOX News stuff - which are false accusations because I do not follow FOX news or right wing sites. I've been left wing all my life. But I guess there are moments where I consider issues differently - including the perspective from the right side of an issue at times which I arrive at honestly - not because some right winger said anything.

This is a forum for discussion. It's pretty dull if we all have the same views.

I agree that we don't want to be inundated with trolls stirring stuff up. But I'd be careful about striking that balance to not muzzle healthy discourse.

[Demsrule86]

26. This is a forum that supports Democrats.

A 'right' leaning perspective probably does not do that.

[Jarqui]

62. We do not all have the same brains. That should be a strength.

I'm left wing on nearly everything: abortion, gay rights, black lives matter, guns, voting rights, discrimination, civil rights, social programs, education, environment/climate change, etc, etc

I have been my whole life and I became politically active in the 1960s.

Recently, I was told that because I thought (like the Democratic President of the United States) that Comey might have had non-partisan reasons for doing what he did and I did not want to pass judgement on partisanship until I heard them (- until he got his complete day in the court of public opinion), that I was spewing right wing/FOX News talking points. But I do not follow right wing/FOX News. I haven't got much of a clue what FOX News says.

Rather than addressing the issue or point, the simplistic rebuttal was "you're a right winger" which is utter bullshit.

There has been a rush to judgement on Comey without all the facts. He's been lynched in the media. Believe me, I allow that what he did threatened to put Donald Trump in the Oval Office which is an utter horror for many of us around here to contemplate - including me. I understand that. But when I sobered up from my initial emotional reaction, I also cannot abide by a rush to judgement. It was too fast and too scant of facts. And I'm being hypocritical because an early reaction of mine was to also call for firing Comey. So I personally felt a lot of these things many of us around here felt. But I caught myself and tried to reign it in and encourage a little due process. And suddenly, that perspective makes a life long lefty a right winder and gets posts deleted.

I don't think that's right. There's something messed up there. It's just an example. It's happened a few times on issues.

If you've really got a good position on an issue, you should not be afraid of what anyone says about it. You should be able to use facts, reason and debating skills to clobber a lousy opinion - without getting posts deleted. Sometimes around here, the answer is to quickly broadbrush an opinion as "right wing" because it's not shared by a poster and those broadbrushing folks get a free pass from presenting the facts and reason that they should to bolster their opposing opinion. A good debate of facts and reason is a healthy discourse.

[Demsrule86]

28. I remember your posts from the primary which is over by the way.

That is the other thing...many of us know that much of the 'concern' comes from those who did not and may still not (not saying you) support Hillary.

[Jarqui]

101. I started out as a Clinton supporter in early 2015

I'd been strongly behind Obama in 2008. Because she'd been a good SoS for Obama, I felt she deserved a fresh chance. And I gladly gave it to her. She earned it.

Then Bernie came along. I knew of him but didn't know tons about him. As I'm warming up to him, I muse aloud in a post here that Clinton's lead is so great, I don't think Bernie's got a chance. I was immediately banned without warning. It was bizarre. I was dumbfounded.

A key game changer for me on Hillary was her March 2015 press conference on the emails. (let's not re-debate that - my feelings on it are unchanged)

So I carry on supporting Bernie and he loses. I really liked Bernie and his honesty. I've been a lefty all my life. I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm way too far left to consider any of the GOP candidates nor libertarian. Jill Stein doesn't do it for me. Maybe I'll sit this one out and I don't post for a while here.

Then it looks like Trump actually has a chance so I have to come back because that is intolerable. My dislike for Trump becomes a game changer.

I'm here more because I can't stand Trump more than I love Hillary and I'm a lifer as a lefty. I've been consistently honest about my positions and how I've evolved all along because they're what is in my heart.

I campaigned for Bobby Kennedy. I supported MLK when he was alive. I streaked against Nixon. Fought for gay rights in the early 70s. If that doesn't fit in here, that's too bad for whoever. I'm in no mood to apologize.

If the best someone has to say to me in a post is "you're a right winger", well, obviously, they're not just wrong, it's plain enough to me that they can't defend their position very well.

[Demsrule86]

120. If you want to run Democrats down....not saying you do

but some are trying to do this even now...then you don't belong here. We support Democrats. You are a Democrat...and my own kids were for Bernie and have switched to Hillary...so I get it. However, if some want to trash Democrats as Obama was trashed here in the past and both Hillary and Bernie were during the primary...I say do it somewhere else. There is a difference between a 'muzzle' and being respectful and supporting Democrats. The new rules are to stay in place after the election according to what I have read, and I am glad about that. Imagine if we had supported Obama in 10 and kept the House...it would be a different world. This is after all Democratic Underground. And I am sure you can understand that when posters who were known not to support our candidate in the past post nothing but negative stuff...then people begin to think this person is suspect. I am not talking about you...only hypothetically.

[Jarqui]

124. I don't think asking for more evidence (a couple of days ago - we've got some since)

on Comey is trashing Democrats. It's asking for more information before one renders a decision.

I don't think asking for evidence or looking at laws, cases, facts or lies related to Hillary's emails is trashing Democrats in general during a primary. I still don't. Facts, laws, cases and lies are still facts, laws, cases and lies.

I think Obama is the finest president of my lifetime - hands down. I think the world of him - a dream come true in so many respects. I think Michelle and their kids are wonderful too. But I do not think the man is perfect and I do not agree with every single thing he's said or done. I do not think he's above criticism and I think he'd be the first one to agree with me on that.

Obama said at the DNC in 2016

"Look, we Democrats have always had plenty of differences with the Republican Party, and there’s nothing wrong with that; it’s precisely this contest of ideas that pushes our country forward."

I would add that the Democrats vs Republicans do not have a monopoly on the contest of ideas that push the country forward. This summer, like many primaries in the past including Obama v Clinton, we had Sanders ideas vs Clinton ideas. It isn't always easy but it is healthy to talk about these things. We learn from each other. Our arguments get stronger and more confident for when we encounter Republicans.

This site should not be afraid of that. It should embrace it. We've been doing this long before any of us were born. Instead of face to face, our kitchen table Obama talks about is inside of a screen.

If some asshole is on here spewing malicious garbage, sure that's trolling and there's no place or value add in that.

Hillary is not for single payer. I'm a life long Democrat who is. When it comes up, I'm taking the single payer side. That doesn't make me any less of a Democrat just because I don't agree with Hillary on that issue.

I wouldn't have been as nice to the Republicans as Obama has. I felt they had their knives out for him before he got elected. Because Obama was nicer to them than I would have been, that doesn't make me less of a Democrat.

We Democrats are on a very big river all paddling in the same general direction but we're not going to row in sync every single time our paddle enters the water. Democrats have to be a BIG tent and within that big tent, we're going to have our differences. If we want to control both houses, we're going to have to let moderates in - not as easy for a progressive like me but we've got to do it if we want to get anything done.

Even though there are voices that I'm not always going to agree with, I'm against muzzling them. Debate them. Cut them down to size with facts, reason, etc. Don't silence them with "I don't agree with your point of view. You must be a right wing troll. Please delete the post." That's just wrong and counter to a bunch of what freedom of speech and democracy is about. The democracy has survived more than 200 years having that kind of dialogue. No leader or party should be above criticism. We shouldn't be afraid of it.

[True Dough]

93. +1

Expressing concern doesn't necessarily make the poster "right leaning." That's ridiculous. If I say the tax code needs reform, that doesn't make me anti-American. Some forum members go way too far in trying to suppress any form of constructive criticism.

[DLCWIdem]

128. I am afraid that was me.

ALL I was saying was that you seemed to be saying that Comey MUST have something (evidence ) to write that letter. That same statement came directly from Donald himself at his rally. Donald said " Comey must have something or he wouldn't have reopened the investigation.... That IS a right wing talking point. Which Is why I said you were listening to Fox news. I've since posted back and forth and now believe that you just had more confidence in Comey than the rest of us. By the way, I don't know how to embed a post but there is an OP that talks about Rudy Guilliani that you may be interested in. The OP references a dailykos article very interesting if you can find the OP. Basically it's a article that's kind of points to us both being correct about the Comey situation.

[Jarqui]

130. I can't stand Giuliani. He's a lying waste of everybody's time.

I do not understand (aside from the obvious media motivation$) why anyone would want to listen to him. He's so FULL of $hit.

I also don't listen to Trump much. I can't stand him either. Like Giuliani, he's always lying about something.

Below, I'll come off as a bit of a hypocrite on the above. But I do appreciate there are practical limits.

I still want to hear from Comey. I'm still convinced he had a reason for writing that letter. But the part you've missed is that I've always allowed the reason might be partisan. But that if it wasn't partisan, then it could very well be an evidence based reason. I've never maintained 100% that it HAD to be an evidence based reason.

But just because someone on the right says something, that doesn't mean the right owns it. If they say the sun comes up, they don't get to monopolize the sun in discussions for the rest of our lives. That won't happen in my lifetime. We share the sun. They don't own it because they brought it up.

I'm admittedly quite progressive. Do I get to scream "right wing!" if a moderate Democrat posts something that is more conservative than how I view things? I hope not.

I hate to break it to folks around here but in my more than 50 years of following Republicans and Democrats, Democrats have not been right 100% of the time. Sorry but that's the honest truth. In my opinion, Republicans have been wrong a much higher percentage of the time. But they're not always wrong. Sometimes, much less in recent years, they actually make a fair point now and then. When one tunes that out completely, it's their loss and it makes it harder for the two sides to ever compromise and put the country first, ahead of the party. That's been my experience. It was not always the way it is right now. I hope someday we can get back to that place because it's a much better and more constructive place for the country than where we are right now. But you can't get there if you stop listening or considering what the other side thinks or are in such constant fear that you ban the words the minute they're uttered.

There are a lot of good people on this site more than capable of teaching about their thoughts on all these issues and defending their well thought out concepts for policies or legislative solutions in the face of right wing talking points. Now I can and do appreciate some moderation because we do not want discussions like a broken record on the same talking points - over and over again. Again, common sense and balance. Maybe a little civil "Hey, we already had that out in this thread. Here's the link. Knock yourself out." now and then would hurt either.

[DLCWIdem]

131. The thread I Am talking about

Last edited Wed Nov 2, 2016, 12:20 AM - Edit history (1)

References a dailykos article. Basically the investigator was looking into when Guillani knew about the October surprise. Both Giuliani and Trump's daughter-in-law had been hinting about an October Surprise. The investigator looked back through the tapes where they had been guest spots. GUILLIANI had references that he had FBI contacts and they were discontented with the email investigation. Basically he thought that those agents said they would leak that they had more emails. So Comey sent the letter before it was leaked by the agents in New York, to protect the bureau so it didn't look like a cover-up. That would make Comey a patsy not a partisan. You should really check out the thread.

[Jarqui]

133. I looked. An aspect of it makes sense but I wonder if it came about a little differently

Mid Sept, NYPD Special Investigations Unit got called in when Weiner got caught sexting. DoJ Feds got a warrant for the phone originally (if I recall accurately). No FBI yet.

Weiner knows his weiner has got him in very hot water and his weiner could become a prison toy. Selfies won't impress in prison. So he's got a folder some said was called "life insurance" on a laptop they don't know about yet. He cuts a deal and "cooperates" to minimize jail time.

Or maybe they exercise a search warrant and eventually find the laptop.

Somehow that leads to the discovery of the Abedin emails and the FBI is called in weeks ago and they send a Clinton email team up. They know from running that little program they've got which compares email to, from, subject, date and time, how many new Huma emails between 2009 and 2013 they've got and probably spot check for classified stuff. They can extrapolate percentages so Comey has a pretty darn good idea of what they've got.

It's all on the QT and with Weiner cooperating so they haven't had to worry too much about a laptop warrant to this point.

Giuliani, as the whole world knows, was mayor of New York during 9/11 and a prosecutor before that. He knows a bunch of the cops on the NYPD. He probably got a sniff from his old buddies at the NYPD as it's been alleged the NYPD knew about Weiner's laptop.

Comey gets wind that this is about to come out. The best way for the GOP is if it comes out via misdirection through the FBI. Someone lets Comey know and he tries to get out in front of the story before it breaks. And then the FBI/DoJ arrange for the warrant to cover their asses.

Something like that makes a bunch of sense to me.

The FOIA on the Clinton Foundation could have been an old Judicial Watch or Clinton adversary thing that got brought to the front burner because it hadn't been responded to in years (way outside of the law). So again, Comey could have got intimidated to act there.

At this point now, I'm not sure it really matters how it unfolded in terms of the election. Emails within the scope of the FBI investigation allegedly linked with Huma are sitting on Weiner's laptop - where they shouldn't be particularly if they're classified. The Clinton campaign has to address that and seem to have fairly effectively.

I was anxious to hear from the FBI because it could help clear the air and calm Hillary supporters. Since it isn't killing Hillary in the polls, I'm not so anxious and would be content if it dies down until after Nov 8th.

[DLCWIdem]

134. Basically it comes down to you think the FBI had something

They didn't have a subpoena until recently but they had the labtop for 4-5 weeks. Also explains the very vague letter he sent and what's been happening when The FBI keeps budding in like The NYT article and The stuff that's coming up about Bill. The explanation also fits in with how the Trump campaign bragged and said there was going to be an October surprise.
Perhaps I just believe in Hillary

[nini]

30. Who knew the election included a goal of trying to get both houses of Congress back in a Dem majorit

I never thought of that!!!!

Honestly the implication that the concern trolls are the only one that 'get it' is so lame. Spend time working your local precinct to help where you can instead of posting on DU.

[blue cat]

31. Remember the trolls

https://www.google.com/amp/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_58184cafe4b0990edc3340d2/amp?client=safari

[wncHillsupport]

32. So,

I have learned that having a concern is to be a troll.

As a new poster, I will probably fulfill the prophecy of the long time member who snarked "how many of the new members will be around after the election."

I am a lifelong Democrat and I still have concerns, as another poster implied, we need the Senate too.

But, given the lack of welcome and the lambasting of new members who thought they could express reasonable concerns and discuss them, I guess we are to be blacklisted. And, I can even live without the forum now. I thought I had found a site where Democratic, including moderate and progressive, folks could have a discussion about "our" topics without being concerned (oops, bad word) about right wing trolls.
I am a realist, not a pollyanna. So, I guess that lets me out.

[Demsrule86]

38. I have seen many new posters welcomed.

I have not come across you so here goes...welcome. We are a site that supports Democrats as a lifelong Democrat...you should enjoy yourself.

[Demsrule86]

40. I was disturbed that someone would be unkind to a new poster

who is a Democrat for life...so I looked at some of the posts to see who would do that (yes low post people who post negative stuff are regarded with suspicion but in general DU welcomes newbies...we were all new at one time). You were welcome by more than one poster.

[elmac]

76. I share some of your concerns

and welcome to DU. I have been banned, then reinstated to some groups for voicing an opinion, I have had posts adjudicated and some deleted, and know that DU is progressive with extreme prejudice which is the way it should be. The rules are there and this site exists to counter the massive lies and misinformation from right-wing sites, news. It needs to be very protective in order to exist.

[Iggo]

94. .

[tallahasseedem]

37. I lived in Tallahassee in 2000...

I have every right to be concerned without getting mocked for it.

[nashville_brook]

146. folks need to be concerned with the poll numbers in Florida: +1 Trump (RCP cumulative)

that's a lot of electoral votes, and gives him a path to victory. Florida could, yet again, throw the election. Everyone I know on HRC's campaign IS concerned and the GOTV effort is not being taken lightly.

[JustAnotherGen]

39. We were all 'new once' and we all faced that scrutiny

That said - no one is holding a gun to your head and telling you - you HAVE to be here.

[Democat]

42. 500 posts and you are disgusted? Very funny

The disgusting thing around DU is low post count trolls trying to discourage Democrats from voting.

[AllyCat]

144. Point went right past you, eh?

Not a low post troll and I'm not trying to discourage people from voting. I've been watching long enough to know the Republican dirty tricks. And this mess is one.

[LongTomH]

44. Just get out and work for the Democratic party!!!

Canvass.....Phone bank........drive people to the polls! We've got a few days left.

[SweetieD]

47. I rarely post here because of the pack mentality.

I usually just lurk. Any argument or criticism is taken as trolling.

[BainsBane]

48. Channel nervousness into working for candidates

GOTV. Posting on here about how people in your red state dislike Hillary accomplishes nothing.

I find it strange that you think convincing DUers to share your concern matters at all. Elections are won at the polls, by working to turn out voters, not by bickering with other Democrats about the latest cable news obsession.

[citood]

49. I was labeled a troll in one of my very first posts

For merely suggesting that HRC push back against some of the attacks on her.

So now I tread lightly with big snow shoes on.

[wncHillsupport]

50. Yes, I was welcomed

by more than one poster but the few times I expressed a concern (haven't posted a lot), my concern was not considered to be good. I recall one in particular but would have to search my posts to find it and I don't care to.

But, I can have empathy for other posters who are slammed for expressing concerns. Maybe I am naive or too trusting but the ones that have been listed as trolls did not seem that way to me.

But I guess I don't understand why a Democratic poster would be slammed for less than optimistic views, regardless. We can't all have a rosy view all the time.

I have also noticed that on every forum, regardless of topic, that there is a core group of people who run it and the flavor or the comments.
I belong to one chronic disease forum that got so nasty to posters who were not "managing perfectly" in the view of one strong group of long-timers that the admin finally stepped in and set a new rule about that particular issue.

Here the rule seems to be 'all positive all the time.'

But, in general, I have felt mostly comfortable posting here but then I edit my posts to be neutral or to not express my real concerns. I like lots of the 'vets' here and their posts.

[DemonGoddess]

54. I think we all have

concerns in one flavor or another regarding this election. MY concern is the downballot. I'm confident our candidate will win the Presidency. But, we still need to work hard and GOTV to ensure she has a Congress she can WORK with. Not just now, but every election cycle, ESPECIALLY the mid terms.

[riversedge]

107. I was called a concerned troll a few days ago. I asked the

poster to take his-her post down. No response. I felt hurt. Yes I did. I do not know what the answer is if we have to always tread lightly--which seems to be the case so many days.

[Agnosticsherbet]

51. Ever concern post shold be answered by...

Go to your nearest Democratic party and volunteer to work.
GOTV

[geek tragedy]

52. lol, I get accused of being a concern troll every 4 years, everyone needs to chill

it's perfectly consistent to say "I believe Clinton will win and really want her to and am donating to her campaign" and also say "those Florida early voting numbers for African-Americans look really, really bad."

[Demsrule86]

68. Bad example ...the numbers were wrong and the title was changed.

[geek tragedy]

70. No, the reduced % of AA early voters is a real thing

and it's a problem

[True Dough]

99. Good for you geek tragedy

Don't be coerced into silence!

[tevolit]

53. The Concern About Concern Is Concerning

I think it discourages intellectual discussion.

In such a close election, my type of concern would increase voter turn out. If the election is not close, there is no reason for concern.

[BainsBane]

78. I fail to see how getting riled up by cable news coverage

Constitutes intellectual discussion. The extent to which the corporate media agenda determines discussion here is disheartening.

[liberalmuse]

56. I'm a long time poster.

I've been with DU since the beginning, lurking for awhile, then creating an account. I've seen the same thing every election. Low-count posters posting at DU trying to demoralize Democrats whenever there is a right-wing drummed up "scandal". I guess I'm just jaded, but there are a lot of low-lying conservatives who like to troll DU during times like this, and a few even reveal themselves after elections, with a big "F*ck you, DU. I've been playing you! Hahaha!" The horrifying thing about this is these are adults - not emotionally stunted children. It explains a lot about the state of our country.

Calling out phony concern trolls is one thing - people who've been with DU a long time know who they are, and they also are familiar with genuine Democrats who express dismay in times like these and act accordingly.

[Divine Discontent]

59. hear hear!

The post count, and --repeated-- negativity is what should be watched for.

I posted Hillary's new video. See the video section. It's something else! I hope we can get it to everyone. I also hope she runs it all weekend thru Tuesday.

[MoonRiver]

104. Thanks for that.

As a long term member, I have also seen it throughout every presidential election. And of course, while trying to demoralize us, they whine about our concern with their faux concern.

[LanternWaste]

58. Form and content of 'concern' is a leading indicator of sincerity.

Form and content of 'concern' post is a leading indicator of sincerity. Concern is not being written off, nor is it being ignored or denied. Low-count posters however, strengthening a weakened narrative of misgivings, discouragement and desolation, are ignored... or mocked.

It's certainly not difficult at all to see who fits into the sincere category and who does not, as one need only open one's eyes and observe.

[Kilgore]

65. Excellent!!

[Farmgirl1961]

69. Here's the thing...

It's not over until it's over. All the polling and the ground game looks good for Hillary. But who knows what sh*t is going to fly from now until election day. Who knows what kind of shenanigans the rethugs will try to pull during election day. Who knows who will vote and who will stay home.

All of this uncertainty does cause the nerves to flare. The M$M are definitely out there cheerleading Trump on and bashing Hillary. She's doing an amazing job brushing it off and (already) looking presidential.

But make no bones about it...this is a dirty and nasty election cycle and these last 6-7 days are going to be brutal. I expect the kitchen sink to be poured on Hillary.

I'm hoping there's more oppo to come on Trump. It would be nice if this Russia connection would be taken seriously, but I'm not convinced it will be. If there's more of that Hollywood Access video type of stuff out there, that could further humiliate Trump. I'm sure there's plenty of material out there (the Russians must have boatloads of it); just don't know if it can be accessed in time.

[Gman]

72. Everyone is concerned

And hysteria does not help things. It's annoying to people who know the ups and downs of a campaign. This is the first, maybe second election ever to go through for a lot of DU'ers. I understand the anxiety. We all have it. But some handle it better than others.

Re down ballot races, there's nothing you can do about Repubs who are coming out except do all you can for Dem GOTV. I guess us old timers know that and whatever happens, happens. We will survive regardless.

[yodermon]

75. If you understand that DU has become FireDogLake circa 2008, then it all becomes clear.

don't sweat it, this too shall pass.

[HassleCat]

82. Concern trolls look like genuine concern

Just ignore any post expressing worry, etc.

[OnDoutside]

83. Thank you Txbluedog. That needed to be said.

[DissidentVoice]

87. THANK YOU!

I got crucified in a post I made about this very topic.

I got accused of everything from "trolling" to simply "not being optimistic enough."

[mfcorey1]

89. Thank you for posting this. I thought I was the only one feeling the sting.

[DissidentVoice]

149. Certainly not.

I got excoriated for posting the same concern.

[barbtries]

90. i'm not posting about it much,

but this so, so long election has played havoc with my overall peace of mind.
some people don't want to hear the sky is falling when it really looks as if it may stay up. others imagine the worst possible scenario when the only operative word is "possible" even though it is wildly improbable.

i do not believe that the electorate is the same as a jury (in the sense that you just cannot know what they'll do). At the same time, unless Hillary is polling at like 95% probability there is still that fucking fear.

i'm 61 years old and this has been the worst and scariest election of my life. i don't see how i could, but i find myself increasingly thinking of alternative places to live in case the unthinkable happens. i find myself terrified that perhaps trump is a true manchurian candidate and we could end up in WWIII (there's at least one trump supporter, a caller to Washington Journal, who wants that to happen) and the whole goddamn thing explodes under us all, and life for my children and grandchildren is dreadful because we could not sustain our democracy.

there's just so much at stake. one of my best childhood friend's son gets all over my facebook claiming Hillary is basically evil personified and the dems are treasonous which every true american knows. hate radio? ted nugent's blog? he says he does not watch fox news, but where the fuck...?!

[Silent3]

92. I'd hope that this would be a place where people can share their emotional pain...

...and not be attacked for it, not so quickly be judged a "troll" or mocked for being "concerned". Yes, there are some real trolls out their, but the swift and merciless condemnation based on quick, cursory judgments is unfeeling and cruel. Your eagerness to stomp out trolls shouldn't lead you to lash out reflexively on thin evidence.

I know the odds still favor Clinton winning, but they aren't as high as they were just a couple of weeks ago, and even a 25% or 10% chance of Trump winning fills me with deep dread and anxiety.

I'm not giving up, I'm still helping, I'm donating, I'm GOTV... but I still wake up at night and have a hard time falling back to sleep as worries spin in my head.

I'm currently being treated for clinical depression and anxiety, and this past week has not helped my condition at all. I just put in a call trying to get an appointment with my counselor because my anxiety is through the roof.

I don't think posting this has the even the tiniest effect to depress the vote for Clinton and down-ballot Democrats. Not in the least. I'm pretty sure most of us who are suffering emotionally right now are still thoroughly committed to voting and GOTV, so at least if the worst happens we'll know we did what we could.

[tblue37]

95. +1. nt

[elleng]

96. 'without significant gains on the congressional, state and even local levels,

Last edited Tue Nov 1, 2016, 06:15 PM - Edit history (1)

a democrat in the WH is not going to get much accomplished.'

[Demsrule86]

113. That is true...but 'nothing' is better than a GOP in the White House who can get his agenda through

which would include SCOTUS picks and possibly nuking the world.

[geo1]

97. When the going gets tough...

Remember at the end of the second debate Trump was asked to say something good about Hillary, and he pointed out she is a fighter who never quits. Do you think she is giving up? Bickering among ourselves is a huge waste of time. When the going gets tough, the tough get going....GOTV!!!!

[Sugarcoated]

98. I hear you, but, unfortunately for jittery people

it drags everyone else down so it's not very welcome here. Maybe there needs to be a forum for concerned people to vent: How about The Concern Lounge?

[wncHillsupport]

100. So what passes your rules,

all you forum owners, for a proper post.

Several of you above have said in no uncertain terms that posters with concerns should not post them here but go work on a campaign. What makes you think those posters don't work on a campaign?

And many say it does no good to talk about concerns. Really? I guess you never ever tell your worries to any friends or family members. Good for you but I consider that just plain weird. Plus, I hope no one ever comes to you in your personal life with a problem they need to talk about.

Could the Administrator post the rules for posting comments? That is, what is 'acceptable' vs examples of 'not acceptable'. That is a serious request. Thank you.

[Demsrule86]

112. Did you read the TOS agreement?

You can also post questions in the ask administrators.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

[DonCoquixote]

102. proud to rec and kick

this is not to down spirits, but a reminder that we need to works twice as hard to get half the results, especially with the QUISLING medias like MSNBC.

[Awsi Dooger]

103. Valid reasons for concern

Sorry, but a 45-41 poll edge is hardly equivalent to 49-45. Far more things can go wrong with so many undecideds and voters who may switch away from third party candidates.

Nate Silver properly assigns a lower percentage given the uncertainty. Hillary hasn't demonstrated she can threaten 50% of the national vote. That's where the polling differs from 2012.

It is still in the early stages of Comey. As I posted a few days ago, we won't really know the impact until the weekend. Those polls will capture the middle of this week.

[Eleanors38]

105. "You so ugly, the thought that brought you into this world oughta be arrested."

When old enemies drift away, find some new ones.

[Gothmog]

108. I also live in Texas and I find concern trolls to be sad people

There are an amazing number of dedicated Texas Democrats who are working to turn the state blue. Dallas and Travis Counties have been blue for a while and it looks like Harris County will be very blue (Clinton has been up in Harris by double digits). Concern trolling only serves one function which is to depress turnout.

A great deal of the energy in the grass roots in Texas is due the Clinton campaign. I am a member of the Texas Victory Leadership group and I am working with the Harris County Democratic Party and the grass roots groups. There is and remains a great deal of excitement in Texas for Clinton.

I have no time for concern trolls.

BTW if you have any issues with voting call 1-844-TXVOTES

[Bradical79]

119. There's concern, and then there's unwarranted panic

Unfortunately, there's far too much of the latter every time a poll gets close. A single poll has Trump up by one, and multiple people become unhinged writing rants about Trump becoming President, and repeating a falsity that Trump is leading the polls. Too many people who are "concerned" get backlash because they repeat things which aren't true while obsessing over things they don't control or even understand in many cases.

[RBInMaine]

122. Concerned, concerned, concerned, ... WASTE OF ENERGY. Go and CAMPAIGN if you're so "concerned."

[BobbyDrake]

123. "The backlash against shit-mongers and rat-fuckers" FTFY

Anyone trying to depress us deserves whatever responses they get.

[treading_water]

127. I've been a DU member for 12 years.

And, as you can see, I have a very low post count despite the length of time I've been around. Mainly because I don't put believe in posting noise just so I can increase my post count and get some semblance of immunity against the concern troll label.

This backlash is predictable and cyclical and it's not worth worrying about. The people making those posts are doing so as a demonstration how big a part of the community they are and to garner the approval of the peers. It's like playground bullying; it's punching down. Most of the people on the site aren't like that and it is a really good place to get curated news for liberals, feel good stories, and education on topics we care about. Filter the rest.

[RobinA]

137. I Generally

take the position that people who spend a lot of time chiding people for being concerned are simply experiencing reaction and they act out by snarking at people who can openly express their concern.

Notice the snarky passive aggression of some of the frequent lecturers. Put them on ignore and express how you feel without the censure. Who needs it?

[workinclasszero]

141. I am getting tired of low count posters

slamming and disputing the news whenever it looks good for Hillary.

Like tonight for instance.

[JI7]

142. Most of it just comes off as Attention Seeking Drama fools wanting to Drag down others

even if we were not doing well what is the point of some of the crap i see. it might be one thing if someone actually had suggestions on getting the vote out.

but instead it's made up headlines that are worse and just lies from what an article actually says.

and just "OMG........................." stupid bs.

even if we are losing that type of shit isn't helping any.

[musicblind]

147. I've been a DU member for the past 9 years and you are absolutely right.

The concern over concern trolls is dangerous. Groupthink never leads to good things.

I'm worried about the Burr vs Ross Senate race and am fighting as hard as I can to change that.

It is amazing that so many DUers want to depress voter turnout by dismissing any concern as concern trolling.