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DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Retired » Retired Forums » 2016 Postmortem (Forum) » I really don't understand...

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:00 PM

 

I really don't understand how Trump is even competitive in this race

I know the country is very partisan, and Republicans hate Hillary, and all that, but I've never seen anyone run a worse presidential campaign than Trump. No one even close in my lifetime.

He's basically insulted every demographic possible, even his uneducated base of white males.

What rule or norm hasn't he broken? What cruel, racist, sexist obnoxious thing hasn't he said? He's been incoherent on policy. He's proposed seriously insane things. He knows almost nothing about the job of president and how the government works. He's insulted the military and the leadership, insulted the intelligence community. He doesn't understand nuclear weapons. He got absolutely trounced in the 3 debates. He shows every sign of being a Russian agent. He is petty, child-like, and has no impulse control. His voice and face and hair are grotesque. He's clearly a conman, and a scam artist. He has at least a dozen women accusing him of sexual assault!!!

I mean, WTF????????????????

I'm not saying Dems should be over-confident or anything, and I know the odds of Hillary winning are good. But I still don't get at all why he is even close? What is with ANYONE voting for this guy?

Just because he's supposedly rich? Somehow this rich elitist playboy appeals to working class folks and will be their champion??? They honestly think he's going to "make American great again", somehow without any real plan or without driving us into the ditch? Is it just conservatives have gone insane??? Do this many people really want to blow up the system?

Someone please help me.

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Reply I really don't understand how Trump is even competitive in this race (Original post)
Fast Walker 52 Nov 2016 OP
RKP5637 Nov 2016 #1
exboyfil Nov 2016 #2
vi5 Nov 2016 #13
exboyfil Nov 2016 #17
lastone Nov 2016 #90
apcalc Nov 2016 #3
BlueCaliDem Nov 2016 #5
uponit7771 Nov 2016 #56
sarae Nov 2016 #69
ncgrits Nov 2016 #4
Fast Walker 52 Nov 2016 #14
ncgrits Nov 2016 #58
dawg Nov 2016 #65
skylucy Nov 2016 #128
muriel_volestrangler Nov 2016 #74
rusty quoin Nov 2016 #129
Sanity Claws Nov 2016 #6
PunksMom Nov 2016 #45
Democat Nov 2016 #7
CrispyQ Nov 2016 #8
grossproffit Nov 2016 #10
Zing Zing Zingbah Nov 2016 #33
Joe941 Nov 2016 #11
Fast Walker 52 Nov 2016 #15
LonePirate Nov 2016 #12
Zing Zing Zingbah Nov 2016 #37
EL34x4 Nov 2016 #16
vi5 Nov 2016 #19
3catwoman3 Nov 2016 #32
moonscape Nov 2016 #50
vi5 Nov 2016 #71
dawg Nov 2016 #79
bettyellen Nov 2016 #99
dawg Nov 2016 #21
Kathy M Nov 2016 #24
ehrnst Nov 2016 #107
dawg Nov 2016 #18
vi5 Nov 2016 #20
dawg Nov 2016 #36
vi5 Nov 2016 #41
ehrnst Nov 2016 #108
dawg Nov 2016 #111
ehrnst Nov 2016 #113
dawg Nov 2016 #114
3catwoman3 Nov 2016 #25
cynatnite Nov 2016 #26
CrispyQ Nov 2016 #52
Quixote1818 Nov 2016 #27
workinclasszero Nov 2016 #29
jzodda Nov 2016 #31
CBGLuthier Nov 2016 #34
Zing Zing Zingbah Nov 2016 #43
muriel_volestrangler Nov 2016 #78
OnDoutside Nov 2016 #40
JoePhilly Nov 2016 #83
OnDoutside Nov 2016 #98
alcibiades_mystery Nov 2016 #42
Coyotl Nov 2016 #47
Garrett78 Nov 2016 #57
Coyotl Nov 2016 #70
Garrett78 Nov 2016 #82
budkin Nov 2016 #49
dawg Nov 2016 #60
budkin Nov 2016 #66
JI7 Nov 2016 #51
complain jane Nov 2016 #54
doc03 Nov 2016 #59
chimpymustgo Nov 2016 #61
dawg Nov 2016 #63
Kelt_Gyrl Nov 2016 #62
Garrett78 Nov 2016 #64
duffyduff Nov 2016 #73
Garrett78 Nov 2016 #85
duffyduff Nov 2016 #101
stopbush Nov 2016 #67
sarae Nov 2016 #68
0rganism Nov 2016 #75
Fast Walker 52 Nov 2016 #115
adigal Nov 2016 #77
Fast Walker 52 Nov 2016 #116
adigal Nov 2016 #120
mahina Nov 2016 #80
JoePhilly Nov 2016 #84
DonCoquixote Nov 2016 #86
NCTraveler Nov 2016 #87
Fast Walker 52 Nov 2016 #117
Willie Pep Nov 2016 #88
SpartanDem Nov 2016 #89
elias7 Nov 2016 #92
Mr. Ected Nov 2016 #96
Fast Walker 52 Nov 2016 #118
Bill USA Nov 2016 #97
Awsi Dooger Nov 2016 #100
Fast Walker 52 Nov 2016 #123
Awsi Dooger Nov 2016 #127
underthematrix Nov 2016 #106
Elmergantry Nov 2016 #112
Fast Walker 52 Nov 2016 #121
annabanana Nov 2016 #119
Rex Nov 2016 #122
Fast Walker 52 Nov 2016 #124
Rex Nov 2016 #125
Garrett78 Nov 2016 #130
Glimmer of Hope Nov 2016 #126
Akamai Nov 2016 #133
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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:02 PM

1. Trump, is the poster man-child of what many Republicans are like when they take off their mask. n/t

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:05 PM

2. Abortion and Hillary Derangement Syndrome

Conservative coworkers are convinced that he will just be a puppet for the economists and evangelicals to do with as they please.

Latest is his proposal for a $1T infrastructure paid for by tax credits (that will be paid for by additional economic activity) and tolls which will be collected by private companies (kind of like the Texas road that went into default I think).

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:21 PM

13. Why do they trust him on abortion?

 

They've been so hardcore on that issue for so long how could they be so goddamned stupid as to nominate and trust a guy who until literally a few years ago, was fairly vocally pro-choice?

Oh wait, never mind. I know how. Because they are all fucking idiots.

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Response to vi5 (Reply #13)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:28 PM

17. Yes.

Probably since Clinton is predictable, and her position is anathema to them.

I haven't a clue on the nomination. If Cruz or Rubio had even done the most basic opposition research, they could have finished Trump off in Iowa or NH.

Any Republican nominee, even Ted Bundy, is going to get 40% of the vote once he/she gets the nomination.

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #17)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 06:58 PM

90. I keep making the last point you've made

 

With the people I know who vote r no matter what and it has always confused them, they will vote for anyone with an r behind their name regardless of their qualifications, the party of dupes and lemmings...

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:06 PM

3. The media keeps propping him up. False equivalency, yakking about NOTHINGBURGER emails

not discussing his legal problems, his unpaid bills...and there is a lot of misogyny out there.

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Response to apcalc (Reply #3)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:07 PM

5. ^^^This!^^^ + 1000 - k&r eom

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Response to apcalc (Reply #3)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 05:06 PM

56. +1

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Response to apcalc (Reply #3)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 05:45 PM

69. Exactly.

Media spin + racism + ingrained misogyny are a huge reason Trump is competitive.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:06 PM

4. I recognize that I really don't fundamentally understand what makes some people tick.

I just don't get it. I can kind of rationalize reasons, but I don't truly understand what would make someone embrace Trump.

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Response to ncgrits (Reply #4)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:24 PM

14. same here.... it's impossible to understand. I have a few relatives who are supporters.

 

I think more than being pro-Trump, they are massively anti-Hillary.

And part of it is just they listen to right-wing media.

But how can that really take you to supporting an obvious sexist? And they are both women!

One of them just won't discuss Trump at all.

The other one is just full of conspiracies against Hillary and won't believe anything bad about Trump.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Reply #14)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 05:09 PM

58. I keep hearing false equivalencies.

I just left work early to get away from my business partner defending her husband who says Trump and Clinton are the same. When I replied that I just don't get it, she said, "Well, he can't understand YOU. It's the same thing."

I pointed out that my support for Hillary isn't based on gut feelings or blatantly false bullshit. I'm an informed voter who has made an informed choice and therefore it's not the same as her husband's p.o.v. He can't list 3 things he dislikes about Hillary. He just doesn't trust her. And she replied that I just don't like Trump--same thing. Again, with the false equivalency between the candidates and in comparing supporters.

I'm so tired of it all. I think my business partner is voting for Hillary, but she sure is defensive about her husband. I just don't fundamentally get their point of view.

Sorry for the rambling rant! Obviously needed to vent!

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Response to ncgrits (Reply #58)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 05:22 PM

65. No one wants to admit they married a deplorable.

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Response to dawg (Reply #65)

Wed Nov 2, 2016, 11:15 PM

128. Yep. Just what I was thinking.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Reply #14)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 05:59 PM

74. The amazing thing is that Hillary's approval numbers were high after being Sec of State

http://pollingreport.com/hrc.htm

March 15-17, 2013: Favorable opinion 63%, unfavorable 33%. Those are good numbers, and she wasn't in office after that, so she didn't have any unpopular decisions or actions. There's just been the relentless drumbeat of hearings on email servers and Benghazi to persuade the gullible that they must distrust her, because why else would there be all these hearings about her? The Republicans played a 4 year game of throwing mud to see what sticks, and Trump is the beneficiary.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #74)

Wed Nov 2, 2016, 11:16 PM

129. It's exactly what they did to Bill. N/T

 

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:08 PM

6. Corporate media and political corruption

I am appalled at this election cycle. Media coverage has enabled racism to go mainstream. Members of the FBI are corrupt and out of control. Republicans put party above country.

I shake my head in utter disgust.

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Response to Sanity Claws (Reply #6)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:56 PM

45. You & me both!

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:08 PM

7. Jesse Ventura, Ronald Reagan, and Arnold Schwarzenegger

America loves crazy celebrities.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:09 PM

8. Ditto.

If anyone I know is voting for him, I don't want to know cuz I'd think much less of them. Two republican family members are voting Johnson.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:13 PM

10. Many of his supporters believe that ISIS will take over America and Sharia law will reign supreme.

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Response to grossproffit (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:49 PM

33. I think the bigger risk is that the conservative Christians start making their own version

of such laws here. Well... they are already at it, but the job is far from complete.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:14 PM

11. I'm not sure he is all that competitive.

 

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Response to Joe941 (Reply #11)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:25 PM

15. I have to keep wondering how much of his support is real

 

Obviously some is... but tied with Hillary? Gimme a break.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:14 PM

12. For the vast majority of Republicans, party identity matters above everything else.

It does not matter to Republicans if their candidate destroys the economy, ignores the Constitution, starts illegal wars, is massively incompetent or commits some other actions that would otherwise be disqualifying. The party designation beside the name on the ballot is the only thing that matters.

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:51 PM

37. It's the stupid football mentality. Always support your team. n/t

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:27 PM

16. Let's be honest. The Clintons are not without their faults.

 

Democrats hashed this out in 2008. It was hashed out again during the primaries. They have, how shall I gently put this, issues with trust, issues with appearances of impropriety.

Yes, Hillary Clinton is a million times better than Donald Trump but from time to time, it helps to step outside this comfortable partisan bubble. Some of the wounds that the Clintons have had to deal with have been head-scratchingly self-inflicted, as in, "WTF were you thinking?"

We knew going into this that there were going to be liabilities and handicaps surrounding Hillary Clinton so to act shocked as to why this race remains competitive and why isn't Hillary Clinton 50 points ahead is either dishonest or displays a total ignorance of the last quarter century of American politics.

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Response to EL34x4 (Reply #16)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:34 PM

19. I agree in general....

 

....but what confounds me is that Hillary has run a surprisingly good, surprisingly low-key, and surprisingly gaffe-free campaign thus far while Trump has continued to shove his foot so far in his mouth that he was shitting it out the other side.

Clinton herself has done very little to remind people why they are suspicious of her and Bill and Trump has done nothing BUT remind people of what an incompetent, repulsive ass hat he is.

But generally speaking you're not wrong that this was always going to be the case and it's less about who the Republican is, and more about people's feelings (right or wrong) about Hillary.

I've said it before but if she were running against anyone but Trump (and especially so if it was someone who could pass as moderate like Kasich or Rubio), she would be getting destroyed right now. I know a lot of Republicans who always vote but who just are not going to bother this election because they hate Hillary but cannot in good conscience vote for Trump.

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Response to vi5 (Reply #19)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:48 PM

32. I hope those Republicans...

...number in the millions.

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Response to vi5 (Reply #19)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:59 PM

50. And if someone without baggage, high unfavorables,

were running against Trump, there likely would be a larger spread

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Response to moonscape (Reply #50)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 05:49 PM

71. Absolutely....

 

But we are where we are. And we need to get out there and stop the bleeding because if Trump gets in, or even if Hillary gets in with a Dem Senate and House it will be a hemorrhage.

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Response to moonscape (Reply #50)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 06:07 PM

79. Every candidate we ever nominate will have baggage and high unfavorables.

There is literally an industry in place to ensure that this is so. (Heritage Foundation, Pete Peterson, Cato Institute, Fox News, etc.)

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Response to moonscape (Reply #50)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 07:42 PM

99. No candidate is without "baggage" according to these assholes. They'd have manufactured scandals by

 

The mile same as they did for Clintons. The GOP don't care if there is any basis of truth in it. Witness Benghazi and the emails. They're both ridiculous but it doesn't stop them.

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Response to EL34x4 (Reply #16)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:37 PM

21. If I'm honest with myself, I realize that *every* candidate we ever field ...

gets scandalized in the press and social media.

Gore was repeatedly called a liar. Mocked for his environmental concerns. Accused of claiming that he invented the internet. Oh, and he sighed at the debate.

John Kerry was mocked for his military service. Called a traitor. Accused of not actually earning his medals. (Remember the Swift Boat Liars). He was also called the most liberal person in the Senate. Oh, and he "seemed" French.

Obama, of course, was simultaneously a Muslim and an atheist. And did you *hear* all that stuff he was taught by that Reverend Wright!

I DO NOT yield any ground to the other side for the Clinton's *issues*. The Republicans have a billionaire-funded propaganda network that engineers *issues* with all of our candidates.

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Response to EL34x4 (Reply #16)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:43 PM

24. Thank You ..... Agree completely


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Response to EL34x4 (Reply #16)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 08:33 PM

107. NO ONE is without their faults. Hillary has no more flaws than a good politician

 

who has been in public service for over 40 years.

Lord knows neither John Kerry nor John Edwards were excoriated for their vote on the Iraq resolution like she has been - let alone from the left. That certainly never got a 'hashing out."

Joe Biden and Al Gore weren't lambasted for voting for welfare reform - let alone from the left. No "hashing out" there, either. No head scratching "WTF were you thinking?" there. Maybe I missed it.

She's a 68 year old woman who refuses to disappear, and has the nerve to think that she's more qualified than any man for the presidency. That is her biggest "liability" and it makes everything that she does suspect - far, far more than anyone else who has done the same as her or worse.

That's the reason that this race remains competitive - sexism. Pure and simple.

Take a good long look at yourself and ask why you (and so many of the fucking white bro left wing that I hope will remain in the sewer that is JPR) have swallowed the right wing propaganda about her, and think about what you wrote.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:31 PM

18. I know it's really unpopular to say this, but for the most part ...

Trump voters are stupid.

Now, as a political party, we can't say that. We must try and reach these voters and bring them into our base.

But as an individual, I very much believe that most of them are stupid. Selfish and hateful, too.

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Response to dawg (Reply #18)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:37 PM

20. Trying to bring them into our base is the definition of a fools errand.

 

Nothing we do will ever get those people to do anything other than vote GOP. We are in the situation we are in as a party because too many of our elected reps and people in power within the party have believed they can reach those people if they act just a little nice, just a little more bipartisan, just a little more conservative. No. They won't. They will never reach them.

The people we need to be reaching are the ones who don't currently vote and who feel the system in general has left them behind. There are waaaaaaaay more non-voters who think the system is rigged but aren't particularly partisan than there are Republicans who can be convinced to vote Democratic.

What's been so frustrating about the past 15-20 years is the number of voters we're continually leaving on the table and not paying attention to.

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Response to vi5 (Reply #20)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:51 PM

36. I think we could attract some of them, but not by being more conservative.

Some sort of simple, easy-to-understand policy agenda might work.

I saw this happen when deep-red South Carolina elected a Democratic governor just so they could get a lottery. It was startling to see how willing people were to cross party lines for an easily-understandable policy change they agreed with.

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Response to dawg (Reply #36)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:54 PM

41. But that is more than just Republicans...

 

...it's generally apolitical people getting off their asses for an issue they care about that hinge on issues like that.

Prime example is marijuana legalization. A candidate that convincingly came out in favor of that (as opposed to a last minute pandering change of heart), would easily win. It's a popular positions that would motivate a lot of people who don't normally vote. And it wouldn't alienate any sizable number of people who are already on the Democratic side of things.

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Response to dawg (Reply #18)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 08:35 PM

108. How do we bring racist, xenophobic bigots into "our base?"

 

And why would we want to?

We have enough misogynists to deal with in our own ranks.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #108)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 08:42 PM

111. How? I don't know. Scare the shit out of them about something, probably. That's all they respond to.

Why? Well, they are apparently over 40% of the electorate. Unless we can peel a few off each year, we'll be unable to achieve any sort of a governing majority.

Eventually, enough of them will die off and it won't matter anymore. But that's still a few years off.

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Response to dawg (Reply #111)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 08:51 PM

113. I thought that they were going to die off after Reagan. But the young ones carry on. (nt)

 

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #113)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 08:55 PM

114. It's a process. We've won the popular vote in 5 of the last 6 Presidential elections.

The map is dramatically different from the way it looked when Reagan was in office.

Too bad we can't get all of our people to show for the midterms. If that ever happened, we could really enact positive change.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:45 PM

25. It does strain credulity.

Even with all the explanations I have read and heard, it still leaves me puzzled.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:46 PM

26. He's the walking representation of today's republican party...

McCain opened the door to Sarah Palin, Tea Party sprung to life and Trump is the result.

Moderate repubs had to go along or get kicked to the curb. Their base scares the shit out of them.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #26)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 05:01 PM

52. Yep. The GOP courted the zealots and the loons.

Now they've lost control.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:46 PM

27. He should be getting no more than 15% of the vote. 45% is really horrifying. nt

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:47 PM

29. Hate and fear of losing white privilege status in society motivates the deplorables

 

It is a very powerful force.

They have it drummed into their heads 24/7 with fox news, hate radio and their dominunist preacher on Sunday.

Propaganda works, the big lie, works.

People are looking for a scapegoat for their miserable lives and the republican party gives it to them.

Hitler and the nazis knew this worked back in the 20's and 30's. Obviously mankind has not evolved one little bit since those days.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:47 PM

31. He is a celebrity and rich

Running for president in a celebrity obsessed culture.

He's super rich, in a country that worships money.

He also plays well in a super or hyper partisan world. He urges his followers to not listen to mainstream media and to get their news from him or breitbart.

He plays off fear. His whole candidacy is based on it.

So many people pay fat less attention then we do here. He plays well with the ignorant.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:50 PM

34. More than just republicans hate Hillary. hell, I damn near do. Sorry folks, not bashing just stating

a fact. Some of us do not like the Clintons and it has shit-all to do with republican smear attempts. Now imagine those who also believe the smear attempts and you have your answer. I will truly be holding my nose in the ballot booth this year.

That is why this race is so fucking close.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #34)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:55 PM

43. It has a lot to do with media and Republican witch hunts.

That accounts for most of it. It think a lot less people would dislike them otherwise.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #34)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 06:07 PM

78. Why such strong feelings about Hillary? Do you feel that way about all politicians?

The Clintons are classic politicians. I cannot see why they are singled out for the hatred, apart from a long-term Republican campaign to persuade the gullible that they ought to be hated.

On top of that, it's not as if Trump is popular. He has the worst 'favorable' ratings of all time. He is a shit, in every respect. If the Republicans were running, ooh, say, Clint Eastwood, I could see people saying "well, he's a real alternative to career politicians" and saying they like him, but this is Donald Fucking Trump. Only Rush Limbaugh could be as unsuitable a president.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:54 PM

40. You have to remember that these are simple people he's pandering to...... you know,

Morons.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #40)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 06:30 PM

83. The Waco Kid knows what's going on!!

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #83)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 07:32 PM

98. All the time !

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:54 PM

42. He's not

 

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #42)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:56 PM

47. ^^ thread winner ^^

 

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #47)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 05:09 PM

57. But he is close, as that graph demonstrates.

Unless we don't think 4-6 points is close. Given everything mentioned in the OP (and so much more), it is stunning (if not surprising) that Trump is hovering around 40% while Clinton is hovering around 45%.

That Trump will get more than 40 million (or more than 50 million) votes is absolute madness. It is symbolic of the epic failure that is our media, our education system, and a Democratic Party that has for many years been kowtowing to right wing extremists and corporations.

Will Clinton win? Yes. Will she win well over 300 electoral votes? I'm hopeful. But none of that changes what I just wrote, nor does it answer the OP.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #57)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 05:49 PM

70. Trump can't get past a certain threshold at this point. He's the 40% candidate, the new Goldwater.

 

But thanks for the right wing talking points.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #70)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 06:28 PM

82. What right wing talking points?

You don't seem to be comprehending the rather basic point of my post or the point of the OP. You keep insisting that I'm suggesting Trump is on the rise or likely to win. I've made it quite clear that I think Clinton will win and that she'll probably win well over 300 electoral votes. And I agree that Trump's threshold is right around 40%.

The very graph you keep posting demonstrates that the race is close. Unless, again, you don't think 4-6 points qualifies as close.

The fact of the matter is that, given how atrocious a candidate Trump is, the race is close. Polling suggests both candidates are in the 40s. Even if it ends up being 50%-40% (with 10% going to other candidates), it's pretty stunning when you consider just how awful Trump is.

None of which changes the fact that the electoral map heavily favors Clinton (or any Democratic candidate, given the national demographics).

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 04:59 PM

49. Because Hillary is dealing with decades of negative perception

That's pretty much it. My dad used to rant about how much he hated Hillary, but when I'd ask him why, he had no answer.

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Response to budkin (Reply #49)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 05:12 PM

60. Not meaning to insult your Dad, but ...

I think "discomfort" with an ambitious, powerful woman is the unstated reason many men (and women, too) dislike Hillary.

My Dad was much the same. Plus he would have been worried about his taxes going up.

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Response to dawg (Reply #60)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 05:24 PM

66. No insult taken...

He was ignorant AF when it came to understanding real issues.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 05:01 PM

51. bigotry and hatred. i know it's hard for people to face the truth

But it's pretty much what it is.

Even taKing out trump look at congress and the vile types that get elected.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 05:04 PM

54. I've been thinking the same thing. It makes me

very, very disappointed and speechless at my fellow Americans.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 05:10 PM

59. We were heading for a landslide until that fucking Comey got involved n/t

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Response to doc03 (Reply #59)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 05:15 PM

61. In a nutshell. Thanks, fucking Comey.

Dark forces are at work here. It's frightening.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #59)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 05:20 PM

63. Many people in the press and in government are intimidated by the Republicans.

They bend over backwards so as not to be seen as favoring the Democrats in any way. That often leads to false equivalencies, slanted coverage, and increased scrutiny of one side versus the other.

I hate that this is the case. But pressure needs to be brought to bear. People need to be made to understand that just as there are consequences to pissing off powerful Republicans, there are also consequences to pissing off powerful Democrats. And that understanding should begin with Comey. I don't have any influence over that guy's life at all. But believe me - if he were on fire, I wouldn't piss on him to put him out. (And I would encourage every other Democrat to do likewise.)

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 05:16 PM

62. Trump is a sociopath of many colors!

Trump has done cameos in movies and had his own "reality" show because he likes being seen. People have inflated views of people on television and I think it is an example of how people can have illogical perceptions about Trump. He can put on a show and people think he is wonderful, meanwhile he probably is talking about what idiots they are. Trump changes colors to fit his moment but occasionally he gets reeled in when his ego gets the best of him. There have been more people seeing the real Trump but really, it seems as though his followers are anarchists who love to spread chaos or they are totally clueless, or they are desperate to be on camera and think that following someone like Trump will make it happen.

I think most intelligent people are confused as to how a reasonable person could fall for his trash talk and lies but apparently there are people on the fringe that just want something or someone to hate and they go with someone that is the same. I believe the intelligent Americans will win this election by electing Hillary but the Trump supporters will be finding negative ways to express themselves.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 05:22 PM

64. I would point to 3 major factors:

1) Bigotry (racism, misogyny, etc.)

2) General ignorance (contributing factors include ratings-focused media, poor education and a failure of the Democratic Party to avoid kowtowing)

3) Anger with "the establishment"/wanting "change" (without really being able to articulate what changes they want, aside from wanting to live the Leave It To Beaver days)

Some pundits point to trade policy as a big reason, but I'm confident the vast majority of Trump supporters don't know diddly squat about trade and its various nuances. And that's not just a hunch. I was listening to NPR yesterday and 2 reporters (one in Ohio and another in some other battleground state) were discussing what they hear from Trump supporters. Both agreed that trade wasn't really on their radar so much as a nonspecific desire for "change."

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #64)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 05:57 PM

73. Only one factor: the media

 

CNN is the major culprit here.

The media literally picked the GOP nominee. The other candidates could not get a word in edgewise.

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Response to duffyduff (Reply #73)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 06:32 PM

85. Much of the media attention has been negative.

But there's no doubt Trump has dominated the airwaves. But the media isn't the only reason why he won the nomination, nor is it the only reason he's likely to get more than 40 million votes.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #85)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 08:00 PM

101. Only in recent months.

 

But I watched that entire GOP primary, including all of the debates, and it was clear CNN, thanks to Trump's buddy Jeff Zucker, wanted Trump to be president.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 05:37 PM

67. Part of it is due to the incessant pearl clutching that goes on at sites like DU.

Rather than embracing that we're winning and dealing from a position of strength, some Ds are happier playing the underdog, the loser that snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

RWers surf sites like DU for such "why aren't we winning by more?" posts, as it gives them comfort and inspires them to keep fighting, even when their candidate is the biggest loser EVER, whose campaign and numbers are in the toilet.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 05:42 PM

68. I wish I could help you, but I don't understand it myself.

Everyday I still marvel at how part of our country has lost their f***ing mind.

It's like I went to sleep, woke up, and half the population was taken over by aliens.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 06:03 PM

75. sexism, plain and simple

there was a really good post on it recently

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Response to 0rganism (Reply #75)

Wed Nov 2, 2016, 03:09 PM

115. Yes, I just read this post saying how strongly sexism correlated wtih favoring Trump

 

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 06:04 PM

77. I'm now asking people I know on Facebook who are voting for trump

 

if they want to grab my pussy.

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Response to adigal (Reply #77)

Wed Nov 2, 2016, 03:10 PM

116. LOL-- how are they responding?

 

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Reply #116)

Wed Nov 2, 2016, 10:45 PM

120. Hillary Benghazi emails fbi jail....total idiots. Nt

 

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 06:24 PM

80. Exactly.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 06:31 PM

84. Dems elected a black guy ... then nominated a woman!!!

Clearly they think its the end times, and they are trying to speed them along.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 06:35 PM

86. and dont forget the rubles

Putin took over Russia by appealing to angry white dudes, Trump is the American version.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 06:43 PM

87. I do.

 

He is going up against a strong and ambitious woman who has never backed down. Many aren't good with that.

Over a billion dollars has gone toward trashing every aspect of her.



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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #87)

Wed Nov 2, 2016, 03:11 PM

117. So, sexism?

 

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 06:52 PM

88. I think it is the growth of extreme partisanship.

I know a lot of people who just hate anyone with a "D" next to their name. They would vote for the Devil himself over a Democrat. Right-wing radio and television have driven them to the point where they are willing to look past Trump's huge negatives.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 06:57 PM

89. Hillary is despite her resume isn't a strong candidate

Fair or not even Democrats have issues with her just look at this years and 2008 primaries. On paper she should've ran away those races, but we know that's not what happened. Hell, our Democratic president is more popular and than the nominee. Obama's approval rating are in the mid-50's, more than 50% have a negative view Clinton.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 07:02 PM

92. selfish, close-minded, unthinking, arrogant, shallow, ignorant- recipe for a Republican

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 07:29 PM

96. He's competitive because the election is rigged

Not in the sense that Trump says it's rigged, either.

In fact, it's been rigged to favor Trump and has been from the moment he announced his candidacy.

The media, the KGB, and the alt-right cabal have undermined the legitimacy of the campaign. They have exercised their will to throw the election, to deflect to the candidate of their choice. There can be no other reason for his unlikely success.

The only saving grace is the power of GOTV.

Even then, even with HRC in the White House, our country has been sabotaged, and the fight to maintain American control over national concerns will be a daily battle against an evil but formidable enemy.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Reply #96)

Wed Nov 2, 2016, 03:12 PM

118. well, I do agree that the media have rigged it for him to a large extent

 

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 07:31 PM

97. the GOP's McCarthyist campaign against Hillary & also against Government & the Democats in general

has in large part been so successful because M$M has not been reporting on the GOP's undermining of Government and demonizing Hillary.

Example: When Comey appeared before a Congressional Committee M$M reported Comey's answering trey gowdey saying a number of Hillary's emails had classified info in them. what M$M did NOT report is that the Dept of State did not and still does not consider the information in those emails classified. What M$M did not report is that different agencies of the Government do not always agree on what information should be classified and what information should not be classified.

What M$M did NOT report on is the questioning of Comey by Rep. Matt Cartwright about the lack of classified headers on any of the emails purported to contain classified info. Comey had to admit that not one of the emails had a classified header on it. Comey also in response to a question from Cartwright agreed that it was a reasonable inference for Sec. Clinton to make that since there were no Classified headers on any of those emails that there was no classified information in them. In other words Sec Clinton did NOT lie when she said she didn't send or receive anything marked classified. NOT reported by M$M.

video:

also see: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/7/7/1546038/-Comey-tanks-key-GOP-talking-point-admits-classified-materials-were-not-properly-marked

Example: A GOP toady at CBS news once asked Hillary in an interview if she has always told the truth to the public. I never heard anybody from GOP-TV ask any of the chairmen of the 8 or nine Benghazi Inquiry committees if these inquiries were "really a search for the Truth?"


Example: During the first six years of the Obama administration the Democrats were in the majority in the Senate. During that time the Repugnants set and then broke their own records for filibustering. But throughout that period the 'filibuster' was verboten on M$M. They never reported to their viewers that the GOP was filibustering every one of Obama's jobs bills. Now, they report on how much people are disatisfied with the Government's inabililty to get anything done. M$M will report that the Democrats accuse the GOPers of obstruction. But they never mentioned how Repugnants were obstructing everthing Obama and the Democrats were trying to do for the country and to speed the recovery from the Trickle down - deregulation disaster.

Note that 90% of the media is controlled by 6 corporations. http://www.morriscreative.com/6-corporations-control-90-of-the-media-in-america/






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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 07:55 PM

100. Open race with outgoing president near 50/50 approval

 

I always prefer situational overview. Under that perspective, 2016 always figured to be tight.

Obama's approval boosted recently, which helps, but long term it's been shaky. That's limited our upside, along with the moderate economic numbers.

Frankly I'm thrilled where we are, given these situational variables that were easily identifiable entering 2016:

* Poor right track/wrong numbers, with underlying frustration and desire for change

* White working class males shifting in small but meaningful percentage toward Republicans. That theme has been all over the place for 2 years or more. Online articles galore. Many of the top political analysts spotlighted it as the single pivotal factor applied to 2016

* Hillary's low upside given her gender, Benghazi, emails and 25 years of high profile scrutiny. We had no chance of a positive surge that captures voters who otherwise pay little attention

Entering 2016 I expected Hillary Clinton to lose a very tight election. It made the most sense, given those factors I described above. Immense kudos to the GOP for nominating the one candidate who had potential to all but remove Hillary Clinton from the discussion for the vast majority of the fall. Too bad it didn't last two more weeks. I couldn't believe we actually had potential for a decent margin in terrain like this.

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Response to Awsi Dooger (Reply #100)

Wed Nov 2, 2016, 10:58 PM

123. yes, all that, but national demographics are generally favorable to Dems

 

and FUCK, we're talking about Trump-- the most unstable racist sexist freak to ever run for president in the modern age.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Reply #123)

Wed Nov 2, 2016, 11:12 PM

127. Years ago I remember reading about the suffrage movement

 

It made no sense to me that women didn't have a constitutional right to vote until beyond the first World War. Once I picked up several books and started to read about all the special interest groups that opposed females voting for nearly a century, worried that it would change election results and therefore their lives, I remember thinking that plenty of the same fearful backward thinking would apply to any woman who managed to win a nomination, particularly the first woman.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 08:24 PM

106. Welp 99.9% of African Americans are not voting him

which means it ain't us

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 08:48 PM

112. He is competitive

 

because a great number of Americans are fed up with the status quo, the "establishment". Voting for Trump is the equivalent of the middle finger to the powers that be. Doesn't matter if he is qualified or not racist, etc. He is the vulgarian at the gates and they want him to bring it all down.

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Response to Elmergantry (Reply #112)

Wed Nov 2, 2016, 10:55 PM

121. apparently... and I can understand some frustration

 

but THAT much???

How freaking sad is that?

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Wed Nov 2, 2016, 03:13 PM

119. The massive gerrymandering done in the wake of the red wave of 2010

is a big part of it.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Wed Nov 2, 2016, 10:57 PM

122. He's not, he has to pick up twice the number of votes as HRC and then some.

 

He hasn't had a chance the entire time, however this is America where perception IS reality. Controversy creates revenue.

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Response to Rex (Reply #122)

Wed Nov 2, 2016, 11:00 PM

124. I agree he technically is going to lose... it's just MADDENING that the media

 

present him as a reasonable, competitive political alternative for the most powerful office in the world. It's dereliction of duty in the highest sense.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Reply #124)

Wed Nov 2, 2016, 11:05 PM

125. I live in a sea of tranqulity, no cable or TV for 10 years now.

 

All entertainment and information comes from what I pick on the Internet or my phone (NPR in the truck). I don't miss the news on TV at all and if I want to look at it I go to a variety of sites.

What is driving me crazy, is evidently how corrupt so many people are to try and force Trump on us! I never saw the FBI coming, that one was a real shocker!

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Reply #124)

Wed Nov 2, 2016, 11:31 PM

130. The false equivalency crap pisses me off.

Both candidates have lied. Both candidates are unpopular. Both have insulted people. Both have made mistakes (like sexual assault and using a private server).

Horse race, ratings, horse race, ratings, horse race, ratings.

Responsible journalism? Puh-leaze.

Infotainment! Infotainment! Infotainment!

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Wed Nov 2, 2016, 11:06 PM

126. Well he was given a ton of airtime to spout his extreme ideas and hatred. Without any rebuttal or

counter view, he was legitimized and became a viable candidate. The only Trumpeteers I have met were total nut jobs or beyond stupid.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Wed Nov 2, 2016, 11:54 PM

133. Because the media has made so much money! showing us Trump!

 


From 2-29-16, Les Moonves, CEO of CBS tells us why Trump is still in the running:

************************************

"Most of the ads are not about issues. They're sort of like the debates," the CBS CEO said.
Leslie Moonves can appreciate a Donald Trump candidacy.

Not that the CBS executive chairman and CEO might vote for the Republican presidential frontrunner, but he likes the ad money Trump and his competitors are bringing to the network.

"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS," he said of the presidential race.

Moonves called the campaign for president a "circus" full of "bomb throwing," and he hopes it continues.

"Most of the ads are not about issues. They're sort of like the debates," he said.

"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? ... The money's rolling in and this is fun," he said.

"I've never seen anything like this, and this going to be a very good year for us. Sorry. It's a terrible thing to say. But, bring it on, Donald. Keep going," said Moonves.

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