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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Thu Nov 3, 2016, 05:25 PM Nov 2016

Republicans are now vowing Total War. And the consequences could be immense.

By Paul Waldman November 3 at 1:32 PM

The election is just five days away, and something truly frightening is happening, something with far-reaching implications for the immediate future of American politics. Republicans, led by Donald Trump but by no means limited to him, are engaging in kind of termite-level assault on American democracy, one that looks on the surface as though it’s just aimed at Hillary Clinton, but in fact is undermining our entire system.

I know, my conservative friends will say that this kind of talk is just fear-mongering and exaggeration. But there is something deeply troubling happening right now, and it goes beyond the ordinary trading of blows in a campaign season. Consider these recent developments:

* There appears to be a war going on inside the FBI, and from what we can tell, a group of rogue agents, mostly in New York, may be in such a fervor to destroy Hillary Clinton that they may be aggressively leaking damaging innuendo to the press against her in the waning days of the campaign. They succeeded in their apparent goal of making FBI director James Comey a tool of their campaign — and the basis for their investigation is an anti-Clinton book written under the auspices of an organization of which the CEO of the Trump campaign is co-founder and chairman. Pro-Trump FBI agents now seem to be coordinating with Trump surrogates to do maximal possible damage to Clinton.

* Republicans continue to cheer the fact that the electronic systems of American political groups were illegally hacked, and then private communications were selectively released in order to do damage to one side in this election. The Republican nominee has explicitly asked a hostile foreign power to hack into his opponent’s electronic systems.


-snip-

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/11/03/republicans-are-now-vowing-total-war-and-the-consequences-could-be-immense/?wpisrc=nl_popns&wpmm=1
65 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Republicans are now vowing Total War. And the consequences could be immense. (Original Post) DonViejo Nov 2016 OP
The "money quote" from that article… regnaD kciN Nov 2016 #1
Hmm, Trump's repeated claims he could, "lock Hillary up"... Barack_America Nov 2016 #22
+ 100 JoePhilly Nov 2016 #33
Those assholes better be careful what they wish for. . . DinahMoeHum Nov 2016 #2
I was just about to shout something impulsive about how this is the CONS. NOT the Dems. calimary Nov 2016 #4
^ This. Ruth Bonner Nov 2016 #21
"Um... anybody STILL think both parties are the same?" workinclasszero Nov 2016 #31
the mantra that Republicans would be the permanent power in 2004 was upended. SleeplessinSoCal Nov 2016 #5
Agents in NY...I would ask the Mercers what they gave to do with this. nt Lucky Luciano Nov 2016 #6
I like Greg Sargent, but can't read any WaPo online. Mc Mike Nov 2016 #8
They cut you off after a few views unless you subscribe emulatorloo Nov 2016 #27
I can't see view one, though. Get a blank page with a green url, in compatability view get a blank Mc Mike Nov 2016 #63
My gods they're frightening. KnR. nt Hekate Nov 2016 #9
YES, excellent article and completely true. Ligyron Nov 2016 #10
Agree. The media should have been telling this spooky3 Nov 2016 #58
Damn right there are some serious things going on. TryLogic Nov 2016 #11
it wouldn't be seen as a dictatorship if Dems would just shut up. SleeplessinSoCal Nov 2016 #17
I watch DK504 Nov 2016 #13
I love the smell of political desperation. It is good they know they've lost. Coyotl Nov 2016 #14
as usual, all I can says is fuck the GOP, they are ruining this country Fast Walker 52 Nov 2016 #15
Putin's agent Trump is doing well for his master at tearing apart our country. keithbvadu2 Nov 2016 #16
They're having a big-ass temper tantrum. Warren DeMontague Nov 2016 #20
fuck those cowards Skittles Nov 2016 #23
People are not ready to hear here this, but here it is ... Cosmocat Nov 2016 #26
This is what would happen even if a different candidate were running. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #28
There is never going to be a "legitimate" democratic POTUS Cosmocat Nov 2016 #30
That is not true...they investigated the hell out of Obama Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #47
Look Cosmocat Nov 2016 #50
The idea that had a different candidate been chosen, they would be willing to work with said Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #53
That is all fine and well except that idea is something you pulled out of thin air Cosmocat Nov 2016 #54
Great article- wishstar Nov 2016 #32
There is an internal coup going on right now in the FBI workinclasszero Nov 2016 #34
They are Fascists clear and simple vlyons Nov 2016 #35
"It will not be easy, because they don't fight fair." CrispyQ Nov 2016 #38
I keep in mind Martin Niemölle's words Captain_New_York Nov 2016 #39
+1000 smirkymonkey Nov 2016 #40
I just wish that we could talk more about Fascists and what Fascism is vlyons Nov 2016 #48
MUST READ NOW! It'll take about 4 minutes. n/t SpankMe Nov 2016 #41
No wonder Donnie doesn't like the WaPo bucolic_frolic Nov 2016 #42
"And we should all be very worried about what Republicans will do after November 8, whether they smirkymonkey Nov 2016 #43
Does anyone really know... freebrew Nov 2016 #44
If Trump wins, his emails are next - or Putin will play him with that threat adigal Nov 2016 #46
I don't think he emails. ANOIS Nov 2016 #60
When did investigations into kacekwl Nov 2016 #49
GOP = America's Home Grown Terrorists! n/t RKP5637 Nov 2016 #52
With more careful watching, you would have noticed this going on for the the last forty years nolabels Nov 2016 #55
Let'em try it. forest444 Nov 2016 #56
Gonna have to forward to some family members... Beartracks Nov 2016 #57
One only need look at Venezuela to see what Republicans are planning for the next eight years. GETPLANING Nov 2016 #59
+1000 LiberalLovinLug Nov 2016 #61
i may as well throw in my ten cents allan01 Nov 2016 #62
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regnaD kciN

(26,067 posts)
1. The "money quote" from that article…
Thu Nov 3, 2016, 05:27 PM
Nov 2016
It’s important to understand that strong institutions are what separate strong democracies from weak ones. In a strong democracy, one party can’t come into power and just lock up its opponents. It can’t turn the country’s law enforcement agencies into a partisan tool to destroy the other party. It can’t say that the courts will function only at its pleasure. We have the world’s most stable system not just because there aren’t tanks in the streets on election day, but because we have institutions that are strong enough to restrain the venality of individual men and women. And now, Republicans are not even pretending that those institutions should be impartial and transcend partisanship. They’re saying, if we can use them to destroy our opponents, we will. Something is seriously breaking down.

Barack_America

(28,876 posts)
22. Hmm, Trump's repeated claims he could, "lock Hillary up"...
Thu Nov 3, 2016, 09:59 PM
Nov 2016

...seems to make sense now we know of these rogue agents fabricating shit for him.

calimary

(81,962 posts)
4. I was just about to shout something impulsive about how this is the CONS. NOT the Dems.
Thu Nov 3, 2016, 06:57 PM
Nov 2016

But then I went to the link, read the whole piece, and it outshouted me.

Last two paragraphs.

And please, spare me any explanations for this phenomenon that rely on how “divided” Americans are. Are we divided? Sure. But there’s only one party that is so vigorously undermining core democratic institutions in this way. You may not like what Democrats stand for, but they aren’t engaging in widespread official vote suppression, chanting that should their candidate win her opponent should be tossed in jail, promising to prevent any Republican president from filling vacancies on the Supreme Court, suggesting that they’ll try to impeach their opponent as soon as he takes office, cheering when a hostile foreign power hacks into American electronic systems, and trying to use the FBI to win the election.

Only one party is doing all of that. And we should all be very worried about what Republicans will do after November 8, whether they win or lose.


Um... anybody STILL think both parties are the same?

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
31. "Um... anybody STILL think both parties are the same?"
Fri Nov 4, 2016, 10:08 AM
Nov 2016

Yes the fucking news media in this country that 24/7 tells America that the democratic party is equally as bad as the traitorous anti freedom, anti constitution, anti democratic republican party!

SleeplessinSoCal

(9,297 posts)
5. the mantra that Republicans would be the permanent power in 2004 was upended.
Thu Nov 3, 2016, 07:02 PM
Nov 2016

I don't think they realized how backward they've been. Science denial and a permanent right wing SCOTUS was what they expected. Scalia's death probably shook them to their core. Then their response just exposed their belief that we were with them. And the only counter offered is lies and more lies.

Desperate and anti-democratic people acting desperately and undemocratic.

Mc Mike

(9,121 posts)
8. I like Greg Sargent, but can't read any WaPo online.
Thu Nov 3, 2016, 07:28 PM
Nov 2016

OS too old, I guess.

Did he mention the actual armed goons and groups of gopers and dRumpf campaigners threatening to visit our polls?

Mc Mike

(9,121 posts)
63. I can't see view one, though. Get a blank page with a green url, in compatability view get a blank
Fri Nov 4, 2016, 04:38 PM
Nov 2016

page without green url.

Ligyron

(7,700 posts)
10. YES, excellent article and completely true.
Thu Nov 3, 2016, 08:03 PM
Nov 2016

We better do something because playing fair with these guys is a losing game.

TryLogic

(1,741 posts)
11. Damn right there are some serious things going on.
Thu Nov 3, 2016, 08:05 PM
Nov 2016

Republicans have been scheming to establish a "permanent majority" for years. Tom Delay clearly stated that goal in or about 2005. Cheney/Bush militarized police departments.

Trump wants to establish a dictatorship. Putin or KGB operatives are no doubt helping him. Trump is a hell of a salesman/con man.

How many others are helping?

SleeplessinSoCal

(9,297 posts)
17. it wouldn't be seen as a dictatorship if Dems would just shut up.
Thu Nov 3, 2016, 08:21 PM
Nov 2016

The working class has become the enemy in Russia and the U.S. Why won't the GOP go along with raising the minimum wage as in the past? Why not help get us healthcare? A jobs Bill? Acknowledge the election of 2008? Why did they enable billionaires to hide asserts and buy elections? Why did Grover Norquist's cries for drowning the government suddenly go silent?

We either know too much or too little.

DK504

(3,847 posts)
13. I watch
Thu Nov 3, 2016, 08:13 PM
Nov 2016

these ass-hats bringing cuffs onto a TV machine and cry wolf like they are 10 years old. These assholes are running our country (so to speak) and threaten to end democracy if Hillary wins.

I am getting an ulcer.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
14. I love the smell of political desperation. It is good they know they've lost.
Thu Nov 3, 2016, 08:16 PM
Nov 2016

They are true fools iof they think they can con Americans into electing a sexual predator so they can break up the republic and make of with the goods.

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
15. as usual, all I can says is fuck the GOP, they are ruining this country
Thu Nov 3, 2016, 08:18 PM
Nov 2016

they are why we can't have nice things, they are everything wrong with this country, they need to go away, etc

I really don't know how much of their bullshit we can take.

God, I hope Hillary beats their asses.

keithbvadu2

(37,531 posts)
16. Putin's agent Trump is doing well for his master at tearing apart our country.
Thu Nov 3, 2016, 08:19 PM
Nov 2016

Putin's agent Trump is doing well for his master at tearing apart our country.

Cosmocat

(14,629 posts)
26. People are not ready to hear here this, but here it is ...
Fri Nov 4, 2016, 09:46 AM
Nov 2016

the BEST we can hope for with Hillary (and it is NOT her fault) as POTUS is what we had for 8 years with BHO, only worse.

But, the nomination of Trump has sped up their facism, he has enabled the R party to go from being a bit from from the line to actually toeing it.

IF we get the senate and Schumer does what he should do to change the filibuster, mark my words.

WE ARE GOING TO SEE SHIT WE NEVER THOUGHT WE WOULD SEE IN THIS COUNTRY.

Demsrule86

(69,096 posts)
28. This is what would happen even if a different candidate were running.
Fri Nov 4, 2016, 09:57 AM
Nov 2016

The GOP thinks they have the right to all branches of government...they are now fascists...but we will get the courts and that is huge...it means we live to fight another day.

Cosmocat

(14,629 posts)
30. There is never going to be a "legitimate" democratic POTUS
Fri Nov 4, 2016, 10:08 AM
Nov 2016

the rest of our lives.

I knew they would be assholes, but part of why I flipped my support from Hillary to BHO in 08 was the thought they might not be as bad with BHO as Hillary.

They didn't investigate the shit out of BHO like Bill, but they all held hands for 8 years to literally do NOTHING to work with him. AND, they are so nuts now that they went a step further did everything in their power to ACTIVELY hurt country to try to make him look bad.

We are going see BOTH of these will Hillary - they won't do shit, they will do everything they possibly can to hurt the country to make her look bad AND investigate the shit out of her and drum up impeachment charges.

Demsrule86

(69,096 posts)
47. That is not true...they investigated the hell out of Obama
Fri Nov 4, 2016, 11:38 AM
Nov 2016

That asshat from California Issa is going to hopefully lose because of his role in it. How about the birth certificate, Benghazi,IRS investigation,Three committees in the House of Representatives announced Friday that they were launching concurrent investigations into allegations that President Barack Obama deliberately manipulated intelligence reports from Syria and Iraq, allowing the Islamic State group to thrive,Two House Republicans Introduce Resolution to Investigate Obama for High Crimes and Misdemeanors etc...much more out there. Also, the idea that the other candidate would have faced less obstruction is untrue...they want him for a reason. Seriously, this is a GOP meme that if Hillary is elected, they will destroy her presidency. Are we supposed to determine the least offensive candidate to the GOP elected and choose this candidate in our primaries ...should we allow the GOP to choose our candidate...Hell NO!!! You are actually kind of repeating a GOP meme.

Cosmocat

(14,629 posts)
50. Look
Fri Nov 4, 2016, 12:27 PM
Nov 2016

I think I was fairly clear that they were raging asshats to BHO, so not sure where you get off saying I am repeating a GOP meme.

And, I have no fucking idea where you are getting this thing about "the other candidate."

YES, the GOP WERE raging asshats to BHO.

They said all kinds of abhorrent shit, they made all kinds of allegations. But, they didn't hold an endless string of investigations into HIM, certainly not at the scale the did Bill.

YES, they ran around spewing bullshit about the birth certificate, but they never did a congressional investigation over it.

That is the basic point I was making. I mean, they had congressional investigations over the fucking fan mail to their cat. Seriously. And, they sure as fuck didn't end up having the House bring up articles of impeachment and have the senate vote on it.

It IS going to be worse with Hillary, AS I NOTED IT IS NOT HER FAULT. And, this whole letting them pick our nominee is pretty much you screaming at well. Not what I was thinking in any way shape or form, wrote or implied.

Demsrule86

(69,096 posts)
53. The idea that had a different candidate been chosen, they would be willing to work with said
Fri Nov 4, 2016, 12:54 PM
Nov 2016

candidate should he have won is a Republican meme...it was also a primary meme...I have two points, the first is that the GOP won't work with any Democrat not ever. They investigated the hell out of Obama and would continue with any Democrat. The second point is that I will be damned if I will allow the Gop to pick a Democratic candidate for president. Nor will I change whom I support in order to pick a candidate more agreeable to Republicans...I understand the logic behind this but I reject it.

Cosmocat

(14,629 posts)
54. That is all fine and well except that idea is something you pulled out of thin air
Fri Nov 4, 2016, 01:03 PM
Nov 2016

Not even remotely what I posted.

Get a time machine, travel back to May and have it with a Bernista ...

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
34. There is an internal coup going on right now in the FBI
Fri Nov 4, 2016, 10:12 AM
Nov 2016

Lead by the director and a bunch of rogue agents in support of a Russian dictator and his puppet that's running for president!

The FBI is totally compromised IOW.

vlyons

(10,252 posts)
35. They are Fascists clear and simple
Fri Nov 4, 2016, 10:13 AM
Nov 2016

I have written in many many many DU threads that the Republican party is a vast criminal enterprise. Headed mostly by capitalist oligarchs, who seek more and more wealth and power. Never ever forget that Nazis came to power in the 1930's funded by German capitalists. They thought that they could use the rabble rousing hate mongerers Nazi brown shirts to defeat socialists and communists and destroy the labor movement, but their industries ended up being nationalized for war effort. Hitler himself was a gigantic liar and con artist, promising for years better living conditions, jobs, and peace with no war. Little did the German people know that Hitler and the Nazis would utterly destroy their country into a pile of ruin and rubble.

You have to really understand what Fascism is and how it got started by Mussolini, who was also backed and funded by Italian capitalists. Fascism blossoms when corporate capitalists and bankers put up a strongman leader to ensure that they can keep their monopolies running very smoothly and minimize labor costs in the extreme. Fascism is quite content to use brutal tactics to impose its agenda and stiffle all dissent. American Fascists will use any excuse to fear and hate-monger the poor, the disaffected, and the ignorant to do their dirty work of undermining democracy.

People better wake up. The #1 thing that we need to do is secure the vote to be free and fair to all our voting age citizens. Obama has said that his post-retirement project will be opposing voter suppression and gerrymandering. If we can successfully vote these Fascist creeps out of office, we can overcome this blight. It will not be easy, because they don't fight fair.

CrispyQ

(36,774 posts)
38. "It will not be easy, because they don't fight fair."
Fri Nov 4, 2016, 10:43 AM
Nov 2016

Good post. Wish the dems would take that last line to heart.

Captain_New_York

(161 posts)
39. I keep in mind Martin Niemölle's words
Fri Nov 4, 2016, 10:51 AM
Nov 2016

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

vlyons

(10,252 posts)
48. I just wish that we could talk more about Fascists and what Fascism is
Fri Nov 4, 2016, 11:41 AM
Nov 2016

We need someone like Michael Moore or Ken Burns to do a series on how Fascists in Germany, Italy, and Spain came to power. We need some very prominent Dem and Liberal politicians to start talking about "strong man" political movements. Dems seem very frightened to go there. HRC has ridiculed Trump's "I alone can fix it," but that is not enough. The history and dangers of American Fascist movements need to be revealed in depth.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
43. "And we should all be very worried about what Republicans will do after November 8, whether they
Fri Nov 4, 2016, 11:07 AM
Nov 2016

win or lose".

I think some of us make the mistake of thinking that once Hillary wins, the battle is over. But it's not. These people aren't going anywhere and will probably become even more hateful and aggressive.

We are battling for the soul of our nation, but the republicans and their followers will do whatever it takes to drive this country into their twisted version of a fascist dystopia.

I really don't know what it will take to stop them except to fight as dirty as they do. We can't be passive anymore in the face of a vicious, hateful enemy that will stop at nothing to destroy us and our country.

"Donald Trump takes every ugly impulse Republicans have and turns it up to 11, and just about the entire party follows him down. So now they are making it very clear that from literally the day Hillary Clinton is inaugurated, they will wage total war on her. There will be no rule or norm or standard of decency they won’t flout if it gets them a step closer to destroying her, no matter what the collateral damage."

freebrew

(1,917 posts)
44. Does anyone really know...
Fri Nov 4, 2016, 11:08 AM
Nov 2016

the depths of repub implants that happened during *'s administration?

We all know he rid the government of any Democrats in charge of any group.
We know he replaced ALL of the federal attorneys.
We are starting to see some of the lower court appointees' capabilities.
He had already, with the help of rummy, weakened the nation's defenses and readiness.
Now, the FBI.
I know there's much more. It seems like PBO would have done better research on this.

 

adigal

(7,581 posts)
46. If Trump wins, his emails are next - or Putin will play him with that threat
Fri Nov 4, 2016, 11:09 AM
Nov 2016

That's what I think is going on.

kacekwl

(7,055 posts)
49. When did investigations into
Fri Nov 4, 2016, 11:48 AM
Nov 2016

treason , sedition , collusion what ever you want to call this obvious anti-American behaviour become taboo? The cries about "rule of law" these criminals spout seems not to exsist anymore.

nolabels

(13,133 posts)
55. With more careful watching, you would have noticed this going on for the the last forty years
Fri Nov 4, 2016, 01:14 PM
Nov 2016

Pretty sure they won't catch us flat-footed

GETPLANING

(846 posts)
59. One only need look at Venezuela to see what Republicans are planning for the next eight years.
Fri Nov 4, 2016, 01:45 PM
Nov 2016

The Republican party will undermine and destabilize the American economy using financial weapons, a massive conservative media, and a powerful business elite in order to pave the way for either the collapse of the government or a coup d’etat. The same effort is currently underway in Venezuela, where the economic difficulties the country is facing can be directly attributed to the insidious efforts of Venezuela’s right wing opposition, and its backers in the United States.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,207 posts)
61. +1000
Fri Nov 4, 2016, 03:25 PM
Nov 2016

I see a correlation between the two. There has definitely been a coordinated and concerted effort to destabilize that elected government by international old money forces. But some on here still cling to their beliefs that big monetary forces, that have a lot to gain from getting rid of Maduro, have nothing to do with it. They are pure as the driven snow, and will sit blithely by when there are threats to their industrial monopolies by socialist policies, and its all the fault of one incompetent man.

allan01

(1,950 posts)
62. i may as well throw in my ten cents
Fri Nov 4, 2016, 03:37 PM
Nov 2016

my late mom stated it this way. they feel that they , they the rs own the senate , white house , and the house , and every other electorate body. they (the Rs) have been slowly going thrugh this from the local dog catcher , water board , etc. they hate it when the dems get in and disrupt their right of Ascension ,esp: when a dem gets in the white house , esp a black man and or a woman.
the rs dont care about u or i just themselves and their campaign contributors.

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