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C Moon

(12,208 posts)
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 12:51 AM Nov 2016

Anyone else think votes were stolen or flipped?

I heard it in every other election since 2000, but the topic has been quelled in this election.
Watching the election unfold, it just seemed too unbelievable that swing states that were projected to go to Clinton, magically went to "It."
538, who has been so amazing at predicting elections, was tripping over their own feet as Clinton's leads were stripped away. Clinton went from 81% on 538, down to 60% in a couple hours.
With all the talk of Putin getting involved, and even here of folks saying their early votes were being flipped, I STILL think something very dishonest went on in that election.

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KewlKat

(5,624 posts)
4. it's past my bedtime, but I'll post some links I've found this past week that makes me go hum.
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 01:36 AM
Nov 2016

Michigan had over 80K ballots that did NOT cast a vote for president. 80,000! Did anyone eyeball those? Did they really not vote for a president? If those were Hillary votes that would flip Michigan.

Alabama had a bit over 1K, not a deal breaker.

Then there was the "conditioning" by the drump camp on the hidden or undercover voter they began talking about the end of August. Then the "we're ahead in all the online polls" , etc. Like prepping us for an unusual outcome. Then we have the russian's hacking our voter registration websites, like in 20 states and they were found out.....however, the russians have some of the best hackers in the world. Anybody think they could break into the state registration sites and NOT slip in undetected into where the votes are sent too? Sort of looky over here, and while we're looking at the obvious they are doing other stuff. There was the Russian bank server talking to drumps server for a year or so, his camp talking to russians......wikileaks, comey......

Yeah, I think something is amiss....I think she lost votes through hacking.

R B Garr

(16,950 posts)
6. Great post
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 01:49 AM
Nov 2016

Totally agreed. It's just weird that only vague, unaccounted for rural voters just magically manifested.

R B Garr

(16,950 posts)
5. Yes, it was Trump himself who called so much attention to the "rigging"
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 01:47 AM
Nov 2016

that it sounded like projection.

And the margins were relatively thin and, as you pointed out, completely unpredicted but they followed a similar pattern. Things that make you go, hmmm.

pat_k

(9,313 posts)
9. And thereby extracted a promise from HRC to
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 03:38 AM
Nov 2016

Last edited Wed Nov 16, 2016, 01:59 PM - Edit history (1)

... unconditionally "accept results," sight unseen.

When X (I can no longer say the name without feeling nauseous) basically said "I won't commit to accept results until I see how the election goes" he wasn't out of line. He overstated and harped on about a type of "voter fraud" that doesn't exist, which was reprehensible. But, refusing to make an unconditional commitment to "accept results" before you see how the states manage (or mismanage) their elections is reasonable, particularly in light of our history. (FL 2000 or OH 2004 ring any bells?).

And one of the most basic questions are about wait times. "Were long lines widespread in the state?" Were there long lines in "certain areas."

If the answer is yes, then the vote has been, almost by definition, suppressed. And that needs to be looked at before you deem the election result to be based on a "free and fair" election.

pat_k

(9,313 posts)
8. No. Suppressed (Lines equal Voter Suppression)
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 03:13 AM
Nov 2016

The lines that many people get excited about as signs of "big turnout" are in fact very bad things.

Under-allocation of resources in "certain places" is perhaps the most effective means of voter suppression there is. For every 10 people in line, 1, or 2, or even more looked at the line and said "screw it." (Particularly given the level of overconfidence we saw going into election day. Why wait in line when Clinton "can't lose.&quot

Job 1: Do anything you can think of to build the political will to DO SOMETHING to guarantee every voter can quickly and easily cast their ballot, and have their votes accurately counted.

An election where groups of voters can only vote if they are willing to wait for an hour or two (or more) is NOT "free and fair."

For all intents and purposes, a long line is a poll tax If we are going to tolerate long wait times to vote, we should just pack it in and bring back the poll tax.

And, even procrastinators have a right to vote. Just because early voting is offered is NOT an excuse for failing to be ready for big turnout on election day.

Lines should = Fines.

C Moon

(12,208 posts)
10. I've lived in the same place for 9 years. Our polling place has always been within walking distance.
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 03:48 AM
Nov 2016

This year, for a reason I have no idea, they moved our polling place 2 miles away, in an area that is more upper middle-class (all houses, no apartments).
I voted by mail, but my wife went to vote on election day, and said the line was enormous.
I have no idea why they moved the polling place this year. I can't help but think it was another form of voter suppression.
I'm going to the city meeting tomorrow night to inquire.

 

Grey Lemercier

(1,429 posts)
11. I am very (by nature) sceptical of so much, BUT, I have never seen so many polls be this wrong
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 04:13 AM
Nov 2016

exit polls, national polls, local and state polls, and always in "convenient" places.

Suppression fucked it too, but I think there was actually tampering.

Not even our Brexit was off this much, in fact a lot of my financial freinds here in the City of London called Brexit bang on. Plus Brexit was a pretty much 100% legit, no fraud simple paper ballot.

You have 50 plus different systems and some REALLY dodgy RW states that sure as shite could be bad actors.

PoiBoy

(1,542 posts)
12. Another view...
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 04:13 AM
Nov 2016

Greg Palast's..

http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/

[snip]
Starting in 2013 – just as the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act – a coterie of Trump operatives, under the direction of Kris Kobach, Kansas Secretary of State, created a system to purge 1.1 million Americans of color from the voter rolls of GOP–controlled states.

The system, called Crosscheck, is detailed in my Rolling Stone report,
“The GOP’s Stealth War on Voters,” 8/24/2016.

Crosscheck in action:
Trump victory margin in Michigan: 13,107
Michigan Crosscheck purge list: 449,922

Trump victory margin in Arizona: 85,257
Arizona Crosscheck purge list: 270,824

Trump victory margin in North Carolina: 177,008
North Carolina Crosscheck purge list: 589,393
[end]

Interesting read...










NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
13. No. They were sculpted. Gerrymandering and voter suppression... plus...
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 11:22 AM
Nov 2016

... Comey and the FBI, and Bernie planting the seeds of "rigged" elections was enough to dissuade many naive, vain and ill-informed voters.

It was a perfect storm, not a perfect "crime" of literally hacking the ballots and final counts.

budkin

(6,698 posts)
14. This year the votes weren't flipped in the machines, they were suppressed by a number of techniques
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 12:29 PM
Nov 2016

Most notably Voter ID and reduced polling locations. And those things don't stop enthusiastic angry right wing voters.

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