Think carefully before sending money to Jill Stein allegedly for a recount

[oberliner]

There is no guarantee that the money will be used for a recount. The amounts she is claiming are needed to pursue recounts are completely fictitious. For instance, for "legal fees" she is claiming two to three million dollars. That is a one million dollar swing, based on what? What exactly are these fees? Who are they being paid to?

No claim is made stating that she will account for how much was spent and on what. No claim is made stating that recounts will actually occur if she raises the ever-changing amount of money she is asking for.

Remember that this is a person who actively and aggressively campaigned against Hillary Clinton and regularly and repeatedly presented her in the most negative light possible.

Is this really someone you trust with your money?

There is zero accountability here - and this person was and is an avowed enemy of the Democratic party.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

1. Yeah, she's made some changes from when she initially put up the site

Which I'm not surprised at, since initially she wasn't accounting for anything but the filing fees.

When it first went up, it was $2.5 million for three recounts, which when added together totaled $2.2 million, but not really a big discrepancy.

Then it was $2.5 million for filing fees, plus there would be "about one million" in attorney's fees.

Then later yesterday, it was the $6-$7 million for all three, attorney's fees, and observers.

In all fairness, I said in the beginning that she was going to need a whole lot more than $2.5 million for all three states, which I'm guessing she and her advisors realized during the day.

Another think I'm not sure about is that she is asking for money to pay for observers in all three states, yet on another section of her site she is soliciting volunteers to be observers. Not sure what the deal is with that.

[oberliner]

2. Definitely lacking in specifics

I think she ought to lay out in greater detail what she promises to spend the money on exactly. And there needs to be some accountability.

[KatyBR]

78. She gives specifics - look here

https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount


Details You Need to Know
In 2004, the Cobb/LaMarche campaign demanded a recount in Ohio. Because of their efforts, an election administrator went to jail. We also exposed the profound problems with DRE machines, which helped launch an election integrity movement. That provoked California to engage in a "top to bottom" review of their voting system, which culminated in the abolition of DRE machines.

The Green Party Platform calls for "publicly-owned, open source voting equipment and deploy it across the nation to ensure high national standards, performance, transparency and accountability; use verifiable paper ballots; and institute mandatory automatic random precinct recounts to ensure a high level of accuracy in election results."

Election integrity experts have independently identified Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin as states where "statistical anomalies" raised concerns. Our effort to recount votes in those states is not intended to help Hillary Clinton.

These recounts are part of an election integrity movement to attempt to shine a light on just how untrustworthy the U.S. election system is.

All money raised goes toward recounts in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. We hope to do recounts in all three states. If we only raise sufficient money for two, we will demand recounts in two states. If we only raise enough money for one, we will demand a recount in one state.

[Coyotl]

4. Brad blog interviewed her, audio here:

http://bradblog.com/?p=11938

They will be paying attorneys and other people and needs to quickly train observers. It all costs money. It can't be done without the money.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

5. I guess you didn't bother to read what I wrote

namely, that I said from the beginning that the $2.5 million she initially asked for wouldn't be nearly enough. She should have known that as well, and put it on her site from the beginning.

I'm not doubting it will take $6-$7 million, but putting that figure up there from the beginning would have been much more transparent than doing it later on.

[boston bean]

6. It did, but if people read the entire entry, they would have realized it was for filing fees.

At least I did.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

10. Initially she only mentioned filing fees

She knew it would be much, much more than that - why not just put it all up at once?

Knowing from the beginning that $6-$7 million would be needed would have encouraged even more donations from the beginning.

[boston bean]

13. I don't know.. maybe she thought it was easier to go for smaller amounts and increase..

If people saw 7M they might say.. we will never meet that..

Even as it is now, the goal is 4.5M, once she hits that, she will increase to 6.5 or 7M.

Please do not make me defend her. I cannot stand her!

But if she can get this off the ground, good for her.

[stopbush]

53. Maybe it's because - like Trump - she doesn't think things through and doesn't

have a real plan.

Remember, this is a person -like Trump - who has no experience in government, but who thinks that the 200+-million Americans who can vote should take seriously a person who comes out of the woodwork every 4 years to run for the most-powerful job in the world.

If anything, this latest ploy by Stein is designed to poison the waters for a serious audit of the vote by consigning any thought of a recount to the nut-case fringe of politics. One woulda thunk that Stein diverting over a million votes being cast for a legitimate candidate was enough for her to declare "mission accomplished - Trump elected." Guess not.

[womanofthehills]

16. She said she needed 2 1/2 million fast to make filing fees

Also, she probably knew once she filed, she had time to raise the money for lawyers.

[PatSeg]

66. I don't think she really had a lot of time

to go into details at first. I want to keep my perspective optimistic.

How are you doing? Have a great Thanksgiving.

[Coyotl]

8. Guessed wrong.

So I'm not reading the reply.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

11. LOL n/t

[Madam45for2923]

12. In all fairness d website stated that eventually she would need more b/c 2.5mill was just to pay

fees to start the process, which is the start we needed.

[JTFrog]

65. Oh what a shock to see you in this thread shooting this down.

Anytime anyone has an idea that might benefit the Democratic Party or give them hope, there you are!!!!

[SickOfTheOnePct]

67. Who is shooting it down?

I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt that she didn't realize the true cost until after the initial funding request was posted.

Do I think it's a huge waste of time and money? Sure, but as I told someone earlier, it's neither my time nor my money, so carry on.

[JTFrog]

68. Yeah, I wouldn't expect you to contribute anything.

Except negativity.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

70. You're right

I'm not going to waste my money on a futile effort.

[JTFrog]

71. Good. Then get out of the way. nt

[SickOfTheOnePct]

72. Too funny

How am I in the way? People are donating, the money will be there for recounts of all three states, right?

[JTFrog]

73. Your negative droning is in the way.

I mean, is that all you got?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

74. If people make decisions

based on the opinion of a nameless, faceless person on the internet, that's on them, not on me.

[JTFrog]

75. By all means, drone on.

I certainly can't stop you.

Doesn't mean I won't ask you to stop though.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

76. You can keep asking

And I'll keeping saying "no thanks"

[JTFrog]

77. So I guess it is all you got. nt

[EL34x4]

3. Might as well send a check to Orly Taitz

It'll be the same outcome.

[boston bean]

7. That is possible... but it has to be tried.

[womanofthehills]

17. Why so negative ?- we need to try.

I gave yesterday and I will again today.

[Madam45for2923]

9. BE VERY SUSPICIOUS OF POSTERS TRYING TO INTERFERE WITH THE RECOUNT!!

[EL34x4]

14. I'm equally suspicious of Jill Stein asking for money

As Hillary Clinton appears to have no interest in contesting the election.

[Madam45for2923]

15. Going through Jill Stein makes sense though!

[EL34x4]

24. I suppose if one has a vivid imigination.

I mean, Al Gore quickly assembled a crack team of the best lawyers money could buy and fought tooth and nail.

Hillary Clinton, playing 3D chess and all that, quietly hides behind the scenes walking her dog in Chappaqua and popping up in bookstores while Jill Stein marches on with the battle flag?

Maybe Democrats should concentrate on lessons learned and move forward with a winning strategy and winning candidates instead of looking for a magical do-over button?

But hey, if sending money to Jill Stein makes people feel better, I suppose there's nothing wrong with that.

[JHan]

26. Or..

We deal with four years of "What ifs" and "Maybe it was stolen" ......... etc.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

36. This is what I've been saying since DU re-opened

Maybe Democrats should concentrate on lessons learned and move forward with a winning strategy and winning candidates instead of looking for a magical do-over button?

But it appears that it's easier to blame the electoral loss on vote theft than it is to commit to doing a deep-dive into where we lost and why, and develop strategies for reaching out to voters we lost while retaining the strong coalition that voted for Hillary in this election.

[cilla4progress]

45. Hello?

Any reason we can't do
BOTH??

[SickOfTheOnePct]

48. Hello?

I see very few people here looking at strategies for the future, but many, many people trying to figure out a way to overturn the election.

**edited to add: The propensity of many here to simply say "we did nothing wrong, the election was stolen from us!" is what stops us from doing both at the same time. It's much easier to blame the loss on stolen votes than it is to admit that mistakes were made during the campaign.

[cilla4progress]

50. Well, I beg to differ

Many people are working on many fronts to defeat and resist the horrific agenda of PEOTUS Trump. This is but one, perhaps the first. It's a bit about timing.

Happy Thanksgiving!

[womanofthehills]

18. It would look better for Hillary if Jill does it

You do not know if Hillary is giving Jill the OK.

[RKP5637]

31. Good point. I have similar thoughts on this. n/t

[womanofthehills]

41. Hillary would look like a sore loser - she can save face if Jill does it

[PatSeg]

69. I'm thinking the same thing

It would look really bad if it was Hillary who did this. It is better if it is something beyond her control.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

19. No one here is trying to interfere with the recount

in any way, shape or form, at least not that I've seen.

I personally think it's a complete waste of time and money, but it's neither my time nor my money, so carry on.

[Madam45for2923]

20. Ok! Some of us are 100% with the recount!

[womanofthehills]

42. I feel the opposite - it is definitely worth the money

I gave yesterday and I will again today. States need to be held more accountable for their elections and even if it's not turned around, it is still a good thing - to know the truth.

[oberliner]

22. I'd be curious to know what you are "suspicious" of in my post.

This is a discussion forum.

I am stating my opinion on this forum about Jill Stein, who just spent the past year and a half trying to convince people how awful Hillary Clinton is.

[Madam45for2923]

25. OK! I see! Just the whole world is watching Jill Stein. She happens to be the way we go forward.

[oberliner]

30. Jill Stein is an avowed enemy of Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party

I would encourage people to think carefully before they turn over their money to her.

If Hillary Clinton asks for a recount, I would be happy to help with her efforts.

[Madam45for2923]

32. Lisa Bloom on Jill Stein's efforts/fundraiser for RECOUNT in key swing states

Her fundraising page is transparent about how funds will be spent. Unlike say Trump U or Trump Foundation. https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount

https://twitter.com/LisaBloom/status/801562896400453633

[oberliner]

37. Lisa Bloom just provides a link to Jill Stein's fundraising page

On that page, it lists lawyer fees as being between two and three million dollars. That's a huge discrepancy.

[Dream Girl]

58. No it's not a huge "discrepancy". It's a range. Legal fees are based on hours and complexity

Difficult to estimate, you obviously don't know what you're talking about. When all is said and done this undertaking will be in the $10 -$15 million range. Lots of man hours and expertise doesn't come cheap. You should at least have some idea what you're talking about before you put opinions like this out there. But oh yeah Jill Stein said mean things...

[oberliner]

60. It's a huge range

If it ends up only costing two million rather than three million, and she raises three million, what happens to that extra million dollars?

Per her fundraising site, she is not going to be giving that back to those who donate. Rather, her party (the one that ran against HRC and the Democratic Party) will use it to "promote voting system reform" - which is, ostensible, what the Green Party itself does.

So they will keep the extra money and use it for the Green Party.

[Dream Girl]

49. How the hell do you know? Most unhelpful post ever!

Cuz Jill said mean things about Hillary?.. boo hoo.

[oberliner]

55. Jill didn't "say mean things" about Hillary - she actively ran against her

And did everything in her power to try to prevent her from becoming president.

[Dream Girl]

56. It's called politics. Boo frigging hoo.

Get over it. Someone needs a thicker skin.

[oberliner]

57. It doesn't bother me at all

I'm just not going to give her any of my money.

And I would caution others about doing so as well.

[Vinnie From Indy]

21. I did think carefully and then I donated a few hundred bucks!

No one has presented any evidence that Stein's effort is a scam or that she has a history of scamming.

[oberliner]

23. There is plenty of evidence that she opposed Hilary Clinton

And worked aggressively against her throughout the election.

This is not someone who is on our side.

[JHan]

28. Trump's appointments..

could have been a wake up call. I don't doubt she's sincere, but I am convinced she sees this as an opportunity for political mileage/gain

[Vinnie From Indy]

29. Or, Stein could have simply been fighting the good fight as she sees it!

As far as I can tell, she has no history of scamming people. She appears to be a thoughtful, earnest and honest person. I might disagree with her on issues and on tactics, but that does mean she is a bad or dishonest person.

Also, Stein is EXACTLY the person that should be pushing these recounts. Clinton almost certainly would want this to unfold this way.

[oberliner]

34. Or she could be trying to raise money for her party

And she knows something like this will attract a lot of donations.

[Vinnie From Indy]

35. I believe Stein has said publicly that any money donated and not used...

would be given to election integrity groups.

She has promised transparency in regard to these funds.

[oberliner]

39. Here's what the page says

"If we raise more than what's needed, the surplus will also go toward election integrity efforts and to promote voting system reform."

Paying the salaries of Green Party activists could constitute "election integrity efforts" as could raising money for future electoral runs.

[libtodeath]

27. I donated because anything is better than nothing but I want to know what it really means

as far as what happens.
So sick of having my hopes crushed and knowing what that monster will do to the planet.

[oberliner]

33. Understood

I totally get where you are coming from. I just am not a fan of Jill Stein and the way she attacked our candidate, and I do not feel confident that this is anything other than a fundraising effort for her party.

[Madam45for2923]

38. Lisa Bloom on Jill Stein's efforts/fundraiser for RECOUNT in key swing states

Her fundraising page is transparent about how funds will be spent. Unlike say Trump U or Trump Foundation. https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount



https://twitter.com/LisaBloom/status/801562896400453633

[oberliner]

40. Again, all she is doing is linking to Jill's page

Her fundraising page is not transparent about how funds will be spent. In fact, it is extremely vague once you get beyond the filing fees.

I have no doubt that Jill will put some of the money towards these efforts, but I am fairly confident that she will also put some of the money towards the Green Party coffers themselves (and can claim that strengthening the Green Party constitutes "working towards election integrity efforts.&quot

[Dream Girl]

51. This probably has little to do with the money. It's about grassroots and producing a groundswell

For the recount. It's a much better story to say that she raised $2.5 million in 10 hours than that she got it from a few donors or from her campaign. Who knows what is going on behind the scenes. This effort iwhen complete would probably be more in the $10 - $15 m range which would have been untenable to ask for at the outset.

[Arazi]

43. Ridiculous. She'd destroy the Green Party if she is lying about this

Whatever else Jill Stein is, she's not dumb and she truly loves her party.

No way would she sabotage it

[oberliner]

46. She isn't lying

She is just using this as an opportunity to raise money for the Green Party.

From the fundraising website:

"We cannot guarantee a recount will happen in any of these states we are targeting. We can only pledge we will demand recounts in those states."

And:

"If we raise more than what's needed, the surplus will also go toward election integrity efforts and to promote voting system reform."

Paying Green Party staffers and funding future campaigns could constitute such efforts.

[dogindia]

44. I just saw her on CNN

Something doesn't seem right. She did not answer all the questions. Could she be trying to cement in Trump? We know she was very negative to Hillary. Why is she not asking for an audit which is what is needed?

[oberliner]

47. She is using this as an opportunity to fundraise for the Green Party

It makes sense.

[Dream Girl]

52. And you know this how?

[oberliner]

54. They have raised close to 3.5 million dollars (and growing)

The total amount in filing fees for the three states in question 2.2 million dollars.

Note these paragraphs from the fundraising page:

"We cannot guarantee a recount will happen in any of these states we are targeting. We can only pledge we will demand recounts in those states.

If we raise more than what's needed, the surplus will also go toward election integrity efforts and to promote voting system reform."

The Green Party itself promotes voting system reform.

[Tiggeroshii]

59. The greens did the recount in Ohio in 2004

This is kinda something they do now...

Help save the democrats some face while trying to keep them from looking like they are trying to challenge democracy, or whatnot.

[oberliner]

61. They did not fundraise millions of dollars to do so

It was done with funds that the Green Party had already raised for the election.

[Tiggeroshii]

62. It was very limited too

They werent able to do a full recount like we are likely to have here

[JTFrog]

63. I'll take my chances. For the good of the country. Fuck Trump. nt

[Madam45for2923]

64. Exactly!

[bench scientist]

79. Here's a picture of Stein dining with Putin & Flynn

I don't know what she is up to but I question this.

https://twitter.com/McFaul/status/799443870194860032