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Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:33 PM

 

What the party needs to do, plain and SIMPLE:

It is so SIMPLE. We lose because we do not have the powerful clear strong populist message that people are begging for. It is always, always, always, always about THE ECONOMY STUPID!

Want to win? Do this:

* Get every corporate Democrat the hell out of the party and be the party of the working and middle classes in grassroots America.
* SHOW UP in all 50 states and all AREAS of them.
* Send the money to state and local party entities not to consultants and pollsters.
* Clean the ENTIRE house at the DNC and put in populist progressives.
* LISTEN to rural and small town folks and UNDERSTAND THEM! They are HURTING and want to be listened to and they want an economic future. We CAN create jobs there. SAY IT AND DO IT!
* Respect the rural culture as well as the urban culture.
* Have a VERY LOUD STRONG and crystal clear compelling and exciting populist economic message that is all about KILLING failed trickle down economics, KILLING rotten trade deals, and KILLING the oligarchy's control of the economy and the government. (In politics you need an overarching narrative, values message, and VILLAIN TO ATTACK. This is the message that gives us what we need.
* Tell older folks it will be a cold day in hell before we privatize social security and medicare.
* Say loud and clear that America is Of, By, and For ALL THE PEOPLE and not just the rich, and our mission in life is to give the country back to ALL the people again. "MAKE AMERICA EVERYONE'S AGAIN!!"
* Unite urban and rural folks around the populist economics message bridging social justice with economic justice. People of all races and genders can not advance without economic justice. BRIDGE THE TWO!

Do these things, and we will come back. Do the same old same old SHIT that FAILS, and we will not. Simple as that.


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Reply What the party needs to do, plain and SIMPLE: (Original post)
RBInMaine Nov 2016 OP
Madam45for2923 Nov 2016 #1
LonePirate Nov 2016 #2
NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #16
RKP5637 Nov 2016 #3
Hoyt Nov 2016 #9
RKP5637 Nov 2016 #37
emulatorloo Nov 2016 #12
Garrett78 Nov 2016 #18
RKP5637 Nov 2016 #38
stopbush Nov 2016 #4
mcar Nov 2016 #5
Hoyt Nov 2016 #10
emulatorloo Nov 2016 #13
Garrett78 Nov 2016 #19
Raastan Nov 2016 #29
DemonGoddess Nov 2016 #43
meow2u3 Nov 2016 #6
alarimer Nov 2016 #47
ificandream Nov 2016 #7
EL34x4 Nov 2016 #46
ificandream Nov 2016 #49
oberliner Nov 2016 #8
Trust Buster Nov 2016 #11
emulatorloo Nov 2016 #14
NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #15
mtnsnake Nov 2016 #17
Garrett78 Nov 2016 #20
NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #21
Garrett78 Nov 2016 #22
NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #26
Garrett78 Nov 2016 #28
NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #34
Garrett78 Nov 2016 #45
Raastan Nov 2016 #30
NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #35
JI7 Nov 2016 #40
NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #42
JI7 Nov 2016 #33
NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #36
colsohlibgal Nov 2016 #23
think Nov 2016 #25
JI7 Nov 2016 #41
democrank Nov 2016 #24
Thinkingabout Nov 2016 #27
JI7 Nov 2016 #31
JI7 Nov 2016 #32
AmericanMan1958 Nov 2016 #39
SaschaHM Nov 2016 #44
alarimer Nov 2016 #48

Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:38 PM

1. Change the electoral college.

 

Find ways to fight an unfair media.
Be wary of hackers.
Come together against unfair equivalencies!

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:46 PM

2. What jobs are we going to create in rural areas? How do you propose to do this?

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #2)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 12:16 AM

16. It could have been clean energy, but Trump is going to gut that

 

and try to re-start coal, push for more pipelines and frack wherever he can. Good thing those Greens didn't vote for Clinton since she was supposedly just as bad as or worse than Trump.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:47 PM

3. Sure makes sense to me. As has been said forever, people vote with their wallets/pocketbooks

for whomever they think will best bring them jobs and money. It's been the same forever and forever and forever. All the rest is secondary.

In this area all we heard from Hillary were the endless ads about his outrageous comments, really nothing else, the same ad over and over with the kids.

I was telling people here, this is not going to work, and it didn't. Meanwhile, Trump was hammering on jobs, jobs, jobs and people were listening, and they all voted for him, because of jobs, jobs, jobs. Her ad about his outrageous comments was played so much it got to be nauseating. It was a WTF to me and many people in this area.



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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #3)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 10:10 PM

9. Good points on jobs, but Trump hammered more on hatred, and it worked.

Clinton was honest on jobs, like telling coal miners their coal jobs were toast and she was going to help them. That was the right thing to do.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #9)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 09:44 AM

37. Definitely, she had a realistic view and was truthful! n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #3)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:08 PM

12. Clinton talked jobs, economy, income inequality, media not interested in showing that.

You never saw a full Clinton speech because they rarely showed one.

Meanwhile they broadcast every word of Trump's, including the lies he told about bringing back manufacturing.

Without bothering to fact check him (clothes made in China, buildings built with Chinese steel)

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #12)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 12:31 AM

18. Yep. Clinton offered far more substance on economic matters.

It's not her fault that people were somehow deaf to that. That she did better among those most hurt by the recession, and that her supporters have a lower median income than Trump supporters, suggests many weren't deaf to that. It's true that some live in an alternate reality where "voodoo economics" is and always will be sound economic policy.

Trump didn't offer any substantive positions. He wasn't even coherent half the time. Seriously, read his speech transcripts.

But he was coherent when spreading hate. When's the last time a major party candidate for president was endorsed and celebrated by the KKK?

Like Obama in 2012, Clinton lost the white vote by 20 points. Toss in the irrational hatred for Clinton, much of it rooted in sexism. Add a dash or two of voter suppression. There's you recipe.

The truest thing Trump said was that he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue in New York and not lose a supporter.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #12)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 09:50 AM

38. Definitely that is all one predominately heard. Trump and hatred. Same tactics as Hitler. n/t

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:49 PM

4. Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and disagree. Vehemently. Because:

1. This year, "populism" was little more than a code word for fucking racist white people to vote for a fucking racist.

2. Our candidate - Hillary Clinton - had a tremendous and realistic populist message and platform. I know because I read it at her website. Her policies were targeted right at the demo that voted for Trump. You know who didn't give a flying fuck about her populist policies? The fucking media, who were obsessed with pretend email scandals and with making billion$ covering the Trump circus 24/7.

3. Our candidate got the most votes, by a lot. She got the most votes ever for a white person running for president, second only to Barack Obama.

4. The Democratic Party can kiss its future goodbye if it ever abandons its multi-cultural and -racial appeal and make up. As long as we are a rainbow coaltion, we will never appeal to the racists, bigots and misogynists in this country. Finding a way to appeal to racists as racists is a non-starter.

5. The DNC is not going away, corporate support is not going away, our traditional coalition is not going away.

If you need to be wooed back to the D Party, you may be at the wrong online forum.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:53 PM

5. This a million times!

So tired of the Monday morning quarterbacking here.

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Response to mcar (Reply #5)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 10:11 PM

10. Exactly, ignorant white wing racists are responsible for Trump.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:12 PM

13. 2, 3, 4 are exactly correct. If we're gonna drop civil rights and purge liberals from the

party, count me out.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 12:39 AM

19. Bingo!

I wrote an essay saying much the same thing: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512621513

I don't know why some have difficulty accepting that at least 20-25% of eligible voters simply can't be reached by the Democratic Party without the Democratic Party abandoning its base. That doesn't mean Dems can't win. It just means trying to persuade the unpersuadable is a poor use of time and energy.

The Dem candidate has won the popular vote in 6 of the last 7 elections, and it'd probably be 7 of 7 had Gore not been robbed in 2000 (as there never would have been a Bush vs. Kerry election).

Like Obama in 2012, Clinton lost the white vote by 20 points. No Dem candidate has won the white vote since LBJ. That's not because the Republican Party is the party of sound economic policy.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 04:39 AM

29. Thank you, well said.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 02:27 PM

43. plus 1,000,000!

Thank you!

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:53 PM

6. Resist the temptation of uttering classist slurs against poor whites

We're partially to blame for the white working class flocking to the repig party. If we didn't call them rubes, rednecks, and stupid fools instead of victims of propaganda, we might be able to reach them with a purely oopulist economic message tailored specifically to their localities.

Working class whites have been fed a steady diet of poisonous right-wing propaganda passed off as truth and unchallenged by not only the left, but also the middle. All they know is the bullshit from talk radio, TV, and even their churches, which are probably fundie.

To burst the fundie bubble, we have to make it sound as if the new message is coming from one of their own, which is very tricky to pull off. We'll need to enlist more conservative Dems to infiltrate their churches and subtly feed them the truth gradually.

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Response to meow2u3 (Reply #6)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 06:21 PM

47. I second this.

We forget the power of decades of right-wing propaganda.

But we also can't forget that many of the same places that went for Trump this time also voted for Obama twice. He was the change candidate then.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:53 PM

7. The party also needs to get with the times

There's a great article on the Forbes website with an interview with Jared Kushner on how he used the media, especially social media, to get votes for Trump. (Not to mention conning the voters with the "build the wall" and related b.s.)

The point that Dems need to learn is how to effectively use social media. They did not in this election, and I'm not referring to "fake news," though Kushner, I'm sure, had a hand in how that went for Trump.

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Response to ificandream (Reply #7)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 06:03 PM

46. I can't believe how Trump got the upper hand on social media

 

Considering eight years ago, the GOP ran a candidate who bragged about having never used email as if being that out of touch and clueless about modern electronic communication was a badge of honor.

And the fake news stuff? That shit was brilliant.

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Response to EL34x4 (Reply #46)

Mon Nov 28, 2016, 01:30 AM

49. Yeah ...

... Funny how that works, huh?

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 10:07 PM

8. Disagree on all points

 

1. Getting rid of Democrats is not a good starting point. Some of the most progressive, forward thinking liberals in America come from places other than the working and middle classes in grassroots America.

2. Time and resources are precious and limited. They should be spent according to where they could have the greatest impact. One of the mistakes of the HRC campaign was pouring resources into Omaha that should have been spent in Milwaukee.

3. Creating jobs in rural areas and small towns is not going to happen. The economy has changed in this country permanently. That shift is not reversible. We need to help prepare people for the future not try to recreate the past.

Bear in mind that more people voted for HRC than Trump by a wide margin.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 10:58 PM

11. We shouldn't lie to the people like Trump did ?

 

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #11)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:16 PM

14. Plus 1 n/t

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 12:13 AM

15. This...and stop bashing guns and religion or people that embrace them

 

Rural people feel differently about guns than urban people do because the culture surrounding guns is so different between the two. Most aspects of religion is about helping others and their communities. Churches do a lot to help their communities. Yes, some religious beliefs teach against homosexuality, and there are plenty of religious hypocrites. There are also tons of people who are NOT that way. You have got to respect the freedom of others in the same way you expect and demand them to respect yours. Sometimes that is going to mean you will be offended. We are NOT going to change the things that we differ on but we CAN focus on the things in which we agree. Religious people don't like abortion. I don't think ANYONE actually "likes" it. One side just knows it must be legal and the other wants to prevent all abortions. So meet in the middle on coming up with ideas to PREVENT unwanted pregnancies. Sure, promote abstinence but have talks with religious leaders about working together to develop education resources and information that both sides agree on and provide that.

NEVER can we accept racism, sexism, bigotry, etc...and there is no reason why you can't stand your ground on these issues while trying to work together on things everyone agrees on.

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Response to NoGoodNamesLeft (Reply #15)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 12:23 AM

17. Brave post, well thought out, and with suggestions very much worth considering.

Well done!

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Response to NoGoodNamesLeft (Reply #15)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 12:44 AM

20. Gun control is not about banning or bashing guns. And Clinton is far more religious/Xian than Trump.

But millions live in an alternate reality from which there is no return.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #20)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 01:07 AM

21. You entirely missed the point

 

The right has harped and harped at people telling them that Democrats want to ban all guns and there IS a very harsh disdain by many liberals towards religion. That shit has GOT to stop. If you choose not to eat meat how would you like it if meat eaters all tried to make rules that say you have to eat meat and feed it to your family just because they love meat and are offended that you won't eat it too? Your rights stop at the point they infringe upon the rights of someone else. If everyone learned to live by that code everyone would get along a hell of a lot better.

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Response to NoGoodNamesLeft (Reply #21)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 01:12 AM

22. Yes, they've harped about Dems banning guns, but it isn't actually true.

That people believe nonsense isn't the fault of Dems. If people choose to believe that Obama is a Muslim who was born in Kenya or that Clinton worships Satan, then so be it.

And the party that is infringing upon the rights of others is the Republican Party. Marriage equality and abortion rights don't infringe upon the rights of others, even if Republicans are convinced otherwise.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #22)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 01:28 AM

26. It doesn't matter that it's not true...people believe it

 

And rather than tackling the issue head on it's just avoidance and pussy footing around the issue in an attempt to appease the far left who are extremely anti gun. What this country NEEDS is some damn common sense people who are willing to cut through all the bullshit and sit down and hammer out a COMPROMISE. Meet each other in the goddamned middle. People in the country don't need more gun control nor do they want it. People in the city DO need and want more gun control. So why can't both have it their own way? Get a conversation going and hammer it home that Democrats don't want to take away guns. Stop letting the GOP define Democratic policy on this stuff...FIGHT BACK.

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Response to NoGoodNamesLeft (Reply #26)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 01:52 AM

28. As I said, Dems can't control what other people believe.

Dems have made it abundantly clear that gun control isn't about banning guns. But people are going to believe what they're going to believe. Like you said, "it doesn't matter that it's not true." Consider the following examples:

1) http://www.alternet.org/story/148826/16_of_the_dumbest_things_americans_believe_--_and_the_right-wing_lies_behind_them

2) http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/you-think-you-knew-crazy-think-again-10-shockers-increasingly-unhinged-right

One more example: a survey was taken in Louisiana asking who was most responsible for the government's poor response to Hurricane Katrina. More people blamed Obama than Bush. If you know when Katrina took place, you'll recognize the absurdity of that. But that's the sort of thing Dems are dealing with.

If the vast majority were working from a set of agreed-upon facts, there'd still be disagreement over causes of and proper responses to those facts. But in this age of 24/7 infotainment, millions of people flat out deny facts and live in an alternate reality. There isn't much to be done about that.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #28)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 08:13 AM

34. You are completely missing the point...

 

I'm not clicking on any damn links so posting them is pointless.

Again, the point is this:

People think Dems are going to take away their guns because that is what the right keeps telling them and Dems DO NOT FUCKING SPEAK UP AND CORRECT THEM.

Dems need to STOP ignoring the lies and be LOUDER than the goddamned liars.

That.is.the.point.

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Response to NoGoodNamesLeft (Reply #34)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 05:46 PM

45. Dems *do* correct those lies. Constantly. But...

...studies show when presented with facts that contradict false beliefs, those false beliefs become even more ingrained. Facts backfire. People are going to believe what they want to believe.

I'm not sure why you are opposed to clicking on links to relevant articles, but here's another one that supports what I'm saying: http://archive.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/.

To suggest that Dems don't speak up and correct the lies is ridiculous. But a large portion of the electorate will not be reached by the Democratic Party. The vast majority of Trump voters wouldn't vote for a Democrat no matter what.

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Response to NoGoodNamesLeft (Reply #21)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 04:49 AM

30. Liberal disdain for religion may not be the correct understanding

It is more of a disdain for legislation of morality from the religious right, the fundamentalists, like the Fallwell's, Pence's, etc.

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Response to Raastan (Reply #30)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 08:16 AM

35. That's honestly not how it comes across, though

 

There isn't enough conversation...really open and honest conversation between both sides. You can't understand and respect each other if one side looks down on the other side. There are so many things to agree on and if you start there it builds respect and makes working on the harder issues that much easier. There needs to be more conversation.

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Response to NoGoodNamesLeft (Reply #35)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 10:44 AM

40. they have alot of disdain for non christian .religions and being anti muslim was

A huge part of trumps campaign.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #40)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 12:01 PM

42. Trump's campaign is not 100% representative of his voters

 

Many voted for him because he promised to bring their jobs back. Yes, he lied, but that's what many voted for.

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Response to NoGoodNamesLeft (Reply #15)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 05:04 AM

33. stop bashing religion ? Does this include Islam and other non christian religions ?

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Response to JI7 (Reply #33)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 08:22 AM

36. Yes, it includes ALL religions

 

I call out Christian hypocrisy when I see it all the time. The church my adult daughter goes to actually is next door to a mosque and they host each others' congregations once in awhile for special open house events and meet and greets. That doesn't mean there aren't some hypocrites in that church...there are always some of those, but there are far more many people who are busy helping the poor, homeless, sick, feeding the hungry, etc. You just need to be willing to have a conversation and respect each other's rights equally. There are a lot of liberals who are hypocrites, too.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 01:14 AM

23. So Far Not A Good Trend

Harry Reid's replacement was a solid corporate Neo Democrat, Chuck Shumer.

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Response to colsohlibgal (Reply #23)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 01:21 AM

25. For what it's worth Schumer claims he is embracing some progressive issues & philosophy

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/chuck-schumer-is-all-in-on-bernie-sanders-democratic-party_us_58307a38e4b030997bbfc3cc

Obviously this is still a wait and see situation but it sounds like he understands that this is necessary for Democrats to start winning again.

One can hope...

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Response to colsohlibgal (Reply #23)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 10:47 AM

41. schumer dOes well wIth rural conservative your voters

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 01:16 AM

24. Some excellent points, thanks.

Seems like a combination of your ideas and those expressed in reply #15 would help the Democratic Party immensely.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 01:41 AM

27. The DNC platform had progressive populists ideas, it did not bring in enough voters.

The never Hillary voters will probably not like the fact Trump is not going to promote progressive populists issues, how is it that going to work for them?

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 04:56 AM

31. #1 SCAPEGOAT SOME MINORITY GROUP

what is their culture ? grabbing women by their $#$## ? talking about walking into teenage pageant contestents getting undressed ? referring to people as fat, ugly . making fun of disabled people ?


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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 05:00 AM

32. they don't seem to have a problem with corporate types like Ron Johnson , in fact he did even better

than Trump. and Portman of Ohio.

can we stop with the BS and call out why most of them voted the way they did ?

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 10:00 AM

39. I hear and agree with this post

But then I ask myself, if this is true, "Why does Russ Feingold continue losing his elections?"
What am I not seeing here?

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 03:01 PM

44. Can we dispense with the notion that being a progressive sells in every market?

Like, I'm sorry. I get that you think your ideas are appealing and right, but instead of dismissing moderate/centrist/conservative dems as corporate sellouts from swing districts, start listening to them about what their voters want. Not every state or district is VT or CA and hell, even VT elected a Republican governor this cycle. Johnson beat Feingold and Teachout lost her race after explicitly calling out the big money donors back her opponent. At times, part of the progressive message turns off those that the populist message appeals to. Do people really think that out of work rural voters, who already believe that the government is the cause of the misery, would welcome more government interaction in various parts of their lives? Hell, every republican administration tends to show us the folly of vesting too much power in the government. I live in a relatively rural, small town and the sound of some progressive policies send some voters shrieking into the arms of republicans. And it is hard to "bridge social justice with economic justice" when one group looks at social justice for another group as an attack on their primacy. Look at the way welfare is viewed in this country. My county tried to eliminate busing the first chance they got. Extra funding to bring the urban schools up to par with the rural schools was looked at as a handout and shot down.

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Response to SaschaHM (Reply #44)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 06:24 PM

48. Well, at this point I think it's more important to just win.

And regain control of states and Congress. By whatever means necessary, with whatever people you can get.

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