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[Maven]

1. Yeah but aren't we glad "establishment" Dems got their comeuppance?

[bravenak]

4. I know, right

Us evil black power brokers and women who think they should have rights, and silly stuff like that

[mcar]

76. The nerve of us

[bravenak]

79. Such whiners

[Hekate]

6. No kidding.

Our friends on the left -- who ran down everything Obama did for 8 damn years, and started in on Hillary as soon as she stepped up.

[demosincebirth]

64. You are so right!

[NCTraveler]

2. .

[JCanete]

3. Coming from somebody who bashed Bernie in the primaries, as if Bravenak, that wasn't helping to fuel

a war and factionalize the democratic party. If you want to blame those who vilified Clinton, than you should at least take some credit for contributing to an atmosphere that was all contention all the time.

[bravenak]

5. Oh please. He was not a democrat and is not one right now

[JCanete]

9. Who was nevertheless supported by a large population of Democratically registered voters.

We do get to decide who we take in as our own. If that is your retort though, you are basically saying what you did was okay because he wasn't officially a democrat, even if your efforts did divide more than coalesce our party.

[bravenak]

12. Funny. I only mentioned the GENERAL ELECTION

But you demonstrate exactly the shit I discussed

[JCanete]

19. I didn't personally bash her during the general. I voted, even, surprisingly enthusiastically for

Hillary.

Given what you just said to me though, I'm sure you would have been all flowers post primary if Sanders had taken the nod, since he wasn't even a democrat. As bitter as people still are here about the primaries, and as many posts pop up about why people still hate sanders, you don't think anti-sanders posts during that time frame had the same effect on potential Sanders voters?

[bravenak]

21. I would not have said anything about it

Just went home, ate a sandwich, and decided if I felt like showing up at the polls. I certainly would not have bashed him if it was going to help Trump in anyway. You guys forget. I was a super Hillary hater too, before the primary. I was for BERNIE. Until his fans forced me out of the bernieclub by bashing black lives matter

[progressoid]

33. "I was a super Hillary hater too"

I was a super Hillary hater too

So... your OP is a bit of self-reflection?

[bravenak]

46. Always.

[LisaM]

42. Except that many weren't Democrats. Depending on the state....

Republicans could (and did) cross over to vote, and in many states, you could vote Democratic without expressing a party preference. Heck, in Washington, where I live, they only had the minimum of requirements and they didn't even check to see if people who expressed a preference to vote Democratic in the caucuses then went and voted Republican in the primaries (which, BTW, is a felony).

[MFM008]

47. yes thank you Bravenak

And now all of us will be affected by a moron who cant brush his teeth right in the white house.
Look at the ass he put in charge of HHS. He wants to end the ACA, medicare and medicaid. They WILL mess with SS.
because so many wanted to hate on HRC.

[bravenak]

52. Yep. They hurt everybody out of spite

[Hekate]

10. Bernie is not now and never has been a Democrat. He used what Democrats built, lost, and is back ...

....to his usual, which is to nip at Dems and caucus with them when he pleases.

[JCanete]

43. What is your point. Is caucusing with someone when the policies are good and not when

the policies are bad, a thing to criticize him for? Do you really caret much about labels over policy? Just tell me what you're saying.Do you even know?

[Hekate]

78. I've been a Dem since 1968, when I campaigned for Sen Gene McCarthy, the antiwar candidate

That year, we lost by assassination. This is not my first rodeo.

[melman]

31. Yes

And still doing it now. It's beyond fucking tired.

But of course the usual suspects will lap it up like always.

[emulatorloo]

32. Is this your first Democratic Primary? Things always get ugly and then we unite and move on.

My primary choice rarely wins the nomination. That was the case this time as well. Ugly things get said during Primary Season, and then we move on.

IT was different this year as some refused to move on and continued to lie about and villify HRC. That is what OP is addressing.

[Vinca]

7. I was a Bernie supporter who eventually voted for Hillary.

I assume I'm in your basket of "haters" since you tend to lump anyone who wasn't a true believer into that category. That said, now that it's over, perpetuating the divide amongst Democrats is counterproductive. Stop stirring things up for no reason.

[bravenak]

13. Did you talk shit about her during the general?

If not then no, if yes then yes

[Hekate]

15. Are you spending your days blaming Hillary for the loss? No? Then Brave is not talking about you.

[TCJ70]

28. Is she not to blame?

Not even partially?

[Hekate]

72. She worked her heart out in a, yes, rigged system. I do not blame her for this disaster.

[emulatorloo]

20. She's not talking about you.

I was a Bernie primary supported, and I voted for HRC in the general. I didn't lie about HRC during the general. She's not talking about me. And she's not talking about you either.

[melman]

30. Right

Of course she's not.

[emulatorloo]

69. So you're a Hillary Hater?

I did not know that about you!

I know Vinca isn't.

[melman]

74. Cute

That's not what I said at all.

The point is, the OP's intention is to shit-stir, everyone knows that.

[emulatorloo]

81. Then don't participate in a thread that isn't about you

[LonePirate]

8. They hate Hillary more than they love America and the Constitution.

[bravenak]

14. And love revenge for not getting their way most of all

[LonePirate]

29. Well said!

[Indydem]

11. I said this repeatedly.

Those who chimed in with that little meme about "need not settle for the lesser of two evils" made my blood boil, and I got a great deal of posts hidden fighting their attitudes.

HRC was never the "lesser of two evils." She was good, he is evil. Any implication to the contrary is, and was, bullshit.

[bravenak]

16. Seriously. Jill Stein and her stupid 'lesser of two evils' ad is why I despise her

[Hekate]

17. Plus 100

[Maven]

24. Nailed it.

"She was good, he is evil. Any implication to the contrary is, and was, bullshit."

[Kentonio]

18. Of course you don't blame her.

Because if you did you might have to take some responsibility for the terrible thing that has just happened to the country. Obviously it's much easier to just blame everyone else.

[bravenak]

22. It's not my fault

It is the hillary haters fault. I voted against fascism

[Kentonio]

35. We told you she wasn't a strong candidate.

If she was a strong candidate then there wouldn't have been such massive support for an old white socialist from Vermont that wasn't even a party member until the election. The same people who joyfully voted for Obama sat here and told you repeatedly that she wasn't a good candidate, and they got insulted and attacked for months and accused of all sorts of things from being closet racists to being misogynists.

And then she lost.

And now instead of accepting that maybe, just maybe we actually had a point all along, you're falling over yourself to pin the blame on the people who warned this might happen months ago.

Just to be clear, I don't think there's a single person here who is happy she lost. Being happy she lost means being happy that vile asshole won, and if anyone thought that they wouldn't be on DU in the first place. But I'm damn tired of people who think they they can just shirk their responsibility for electing a candidate they insisted would win easily, and now pin the blame on the very people who told them it wasn't so.

[bravenak]

44. And yall called her everything but a child of god during the general.

And gave us Trump. I hope blaming her for the way she was treated gives you solace when our medicare is gone. Hillary would not privatize it. But don will. Good fucking job. You proud?

[Lotusflower70]

23. Probably because

Of the need for reform in the Democratic party and the DNC. There was an element of fuck you to the establishment in regard to what Sanders brought to the table. As well as Stein and Johnson. Although I think the two of them are just batshit. But for young people voting in their first election, Bernie spoke to them and for them. He didn't speak down to them. He galvanized that enthusiasm. And when people tried to attack and dismiss them, they thought back. This was their method. There was no going back for some of them. My son said in good conscience he couldn't and would not vote for Clinton. A lot of young people were turned off by the corruption in the system and refused to fall in line as some expected them to. And can you blame them? We teach our children to stand up for what they believe in. At least most parents do. And this is the result. So we need to address the divide in the party and move forward.

[bravenak]

34. The fuck you was really because he STARTED OUT attacking establishment dems

And the party as a whole. Calling us corrupt was cool for getting kids who are anti establishment and those who consider themselves far left out but it fails when dealing with oppressed groups. Because you see, the establishment is the group who actually has gotten us voting rights and fought for equality for us and had positive results.

If these anti establishment outsiders poo poo the rights and progresses we have made by pushing the establishment to write laws desegregating and uplifting minorities by getting us INCLUDED, while at the same time never campaigning near us or even noticing us until we interrupt them, why should we give them a chance?

[Lotusflower70]

45. Fair enough

I get that and appreciate it. There are always people that pave the way. Bernie also spoke more about the environment which is huge because if we continue to screw with the planet, nothing else matters.

[melman]

75. But over here

------>http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2633121

You said you were "for Bernie." Obviously everyone with half a brain knows that's bullshit, but let's assume for a moment it's true.

Why? Why were you ever "for Bernie"?

[bravenak]

77. Bernie was closer to me in ideology

But he fans decided that black lives matter was a terrorist group so I Dropped him

[Lotusflower70]

25. Lesser of two evils

I think that message turned off a lot of people as well. They didn't like either option so they didn't vote. Some chose to vote against a candidate instead of for one. I think this was the absolute worst election in my lifetime.

[MineralMan]

27. Hillary was the better of two choices in the General Election.

I vote for the better, not the perfect. I've never yet seen a perfect candidate for any office. I never settle for less, but always try for the better. I wish more people had done that in more states. Sadly, they did not.

[Lotusflower70]

38. I understand that

But sadly some will debate that especially those that felt alienated by Clinton or those that wanted change. Many didn't see Hillary as trustworthy or with a clearly established message of her own. They saw her as more Obama. Which to me is a good thing. And then when she was shifted due to Sanders influence, she seemed wishy washy. There is never a perfect candidate, humans aren't perfect but she was definitely flawed. And Trump was an epic clusterfuck that benefitted from timing.

[MineralMan]

49. Presidential Elections Are Binary in This Country.

Voters choose. This year, some chose to waste their votes on third party candidates or did not mark a presidential candidate. They failed to recognize that binary choice, thinking they were making a statement, perhaps. The statement, sadly, was "I'm a dumbass who doesn't get it."

A sad business this election was.

[bravenak]

37. Calling her evil was the problem. She is not. Donald is though! And they gave him the keys

[G_j]

26. I was a Bernie supporter here

and did not bash Hillary. What have you to say about those who inccessantly bashed Sanders?
What if he had won the primary?

[sheshe2]

36. Had he won the primary he would have been my candidate.

I would never consider sitting out the vote or waste my vote on a third party candidate.

[bravenak]

39. Had he won the primary I would have bit my tongue. Cause, donald is a terrorist

[G_j]

54. my question was based on the content of your OP

which I took to be the consequences of hating on a candidate.

[bravenak]

56. I can control myself during a general well enough even if I dont get my way

My op was about the general

[mtnsnake]

40. You should aim your venom at the ones who really deserve it:

The right wing. They are the ones who are most responsible for hating Hillary and villainizing her for decades.

Almost all of the Democrats I know who didn't prefer or didn't like Hillary voted for her in the general.

[bravenak]

51. I am. Anybody who bashed hillary and raised up Don during the general is a rightwinger

They are fooling themselves by thinking using rightwing smears against a democrat in order to help republicans is somehow 'lefty'

[sheshe2]

41. ...

[vi5]

48. Hillary can never fail! She can only be failed...

I voted for her but I probably didn't clap loudly enough so I'm probably to blame as well.

As long as we don't blame the candidate or her campaign or her staff or anyone who refused to believe anything bad about her. None of those people had anything to do with it.

I say we do away with the primary process altogether so we don't run the risk of anyone saying anything bad about our candidates ever. But then amend it so that it only applies if that candidate is Hillary Clinton.

[bravenak]

58. I blame those who lied about her and tore her down out of spite.

[vi5]

70. Oh, the poor helpless major party nominee for President..

...totally helpless to do anything. Totally powerless to do anything but sit back and suffer the slings and arrows. If only she had, I don't know millions of dollars, a massive campaign staff, and an untold amount of resources at her disposal to do something to counter that and actually convince people to vote for her.

[bravenak]

71. She got millions more votes than Both Her opponents. One just forgot to stop fighting after losing

[TCJ70]

50. Your first paragraph is strange...

...considering that Hillary supported the "gold-standard" TPP for far longer than she "opposed" it, the ACA doesn't go far enough, and Obama DID offer chained CPI to the Republicans. This isn't made up stuff.

I was not as ardent a Hillary supporter as many around here. My goal outside of this board was to get people simply to NOT vote for Trump, since getting a Trump voter to vote for Hillary was nearly impossible given the level of dislike she invokes in people. There are no Hillary haters here. There may be Hillary indifference, but certainly not hate.

[bravenak]

55. Oh bull. She opposed it as written and said so.

[bravenak]

57. What a bullshit post of rightwing garbage.

[Lotusflower70]

59. No doubt

That is the center of it. Some people don't want to acknowledge the divide in the party and the corruption that lead to this point.

[immoderate]

60. A case could be made that, 'Hillary lovers gave us Trump.'

It really works both ways (were we prone to crying over spilled milk. ) I voted for Hillary, but few in my close circles did (includes right and left.) Most rightly felt that there was no real choice. It was the sane billionaires vs the insane billionaires, again. The Democratic PTB ignored Hillary's weaknesses, both real and perceived, and could not inspire a following.

Yeah, she won the popular vote, but that was against Trump, FGS! What if it had been Kasich, or Bush, or Pence?

--imm

[bravenak]

66. Nope

[Chitown Kev]

61. If I am fully honest

I'd have to say that I didn't particularly care for Hillary OR Bernie.

But that's an entirely different thread.

I think the voters made their choice in the 2008 primaries Hillary received a nice consolation prize (Secretary of State) and we should have been done with the Clintons and moved right along.

I'm angry because the entire primary season was spent making a sort of false choice.

[bravenak]

63. Me neither to be honest

But I did realize Donald was a terrorist. I would have shut up and voted for bernie had he won. I have only ever loved Obama and my reasons are varied and complicated.

I think neither of them should have run because honestly I was tired of Boomers running because they are too fucking nostalgic and nobody can do nostalgia better than republicans. I had HOPED we would get a genxer withsome mf charisma.

[vi5]

80. Oh good, someone else...

Whenever I express reservations or unhappiness with the way our party became little more than the Clinton Campaign Party following her loss in 2008 people assume I'm a Bernie supporter. I liked him just fine but I don't think he would have made a better or stronger candidate.

And what is done is done and I think we need to move on. But the amount of threads and people on here and elsewhere who are blaming everyone BUT the candidate and/or her cadre of sycophants and loyalists are starting to nauseate me almost as much as the fact that we lost to Donald fucking Trump.

[Azathoth]

62. Hillary lost everywhere that wasn't a deep blue stronghold

The problems with her candidacy went far deeper than a handful of disaffected Bernie supporters.

[bravenak]

65. Too boring is what is was and too hated by too many idiots that believed lies

[mcar]

67. And the emails were the worst thing that ever happened, ever

I will never understand any of this, brave.

[bravenak]

68. I know. Boring ass emails were the worst thing ever.

Such bullshit

[stonecutter357]

73. K&R!