Fucked over by Obama -- twice in two days

[jerseyjack]

Yesterday was his caving in on Social Security.

Today, $250,000, well its not too much money after all.

What will tomorrow bring?

[BeyondGeography]

1. Tomorrow he will declare war on puppies

[chillfactor]

3. it is called negotiations and compromise....

you have heard of that right?

[One of the 99]

5. No they haven't.

It's called making the perfect the enemy of the good. And those who engage in that kind of thinking will quickly make themselves irrelevant.

[daa]

6. Yeah I heard of it so you cut my social security and not defense

I DID NOT SUPPORT DEMOCRATS ACROSS THE COUNTRY FOR THIS!!! Nor will I in the future.

[AnnaLee]

7. No it's called ignoring the American people and promoting the Republican party

The American people voted for increases for earners over $200K. Now we have a trickle up plan where retirees send money to people in the $200K-$400K earnings. It's a lot of money when you compare the number of people between $200K-$400K to the number above $400K. The cuts to the poor and middle class have just begun.

I don't know if I don't see this mentioned because it is obvious or if people haven't stopped and thought about it:

If a poor retiree substitutes ground beef for steak this year then it will be chicken (if cheaper than ground beef) for ground beef next year and so on. At some point there is nothing left to substitute. The index is a one year substitution calculation and not a compounding over multiple years calculation. As such, it is bogus when used as a COLA index. Also, since it has been shown that the components of the current CPI do not weight real costs to retirees (such as medical), even the current CPI is usually lower than the CPI experienced by elderly people.

It will be informative to see what the Democrats in Congress do about this. I have the impression that, thus far, they have either been left out of the conversation or have opted out.

[TheMadMonk]

11. It's neither negotiation nor compromise when...

...your starting position is your opponent's final demands.

That's not even capitulation. It's full blooded cooperation in the ongoing transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich.

[Texin]

49. I don't think he expects them to meet him even half way.

They won't compromise for that number any more than they will for the $250k that was the first demand. I don't believe they'll reach a deal before the end of the year, and we will go off the cliff.

[TheMadMonk]

65. They won't compromise at all. And why should they...

...They've learnt that they get every single thing they want by not asking for it, but simply by saying "No" and waiting until it's offered to them.

[Jakes Progress]

13. You keep using those words.

I don't think they mean what you think they mean.

We elected the six-fingered man.

[Myrina]

17. "Negotiations" and "compromise"

.... do not equal giving away the farm to keep the bully rich, fat & happy at the expense of everyone else.

[pscot]

20. It's called selling out the people who voted for him

We've heard of that.

[center rising]

25. Exactly!!

Obama can do this because he doesn't have to run for president again. Obama is going to cave in once again.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

78. And do so with the support of Democratic politicians who should be supporting us.

Obama is not doing this alone.

[high density]

64. Cutting social security to preserve small tax cuts for $200k-$400k families

is completely ridiculous and unacceptable.

[kooljerk666]

4. I am hoping this is just making the GOPhers tea baggers look bad.

Until next congress there is no way anything is gonna pass unless it is exactly what we just had.

As unpopular as GOP, and 65% of America is behind all potential DEM changes, I can't imagine Obama wanting to go down in history as a useless comprising whore of wall st, banksters & rich trash.

Hope springs eternal.

BTW I am not a huge Obama fan but I think he may be stepping to the left.

[Zoeisright]

21. "He don't represent me"?? "rubs it into people that voted for him faces"??

Wow, you are really ignorant.

[Texin]

51. Agree with your first sentence.

They won't go for that amount any more than Obama would cave into letting the Daddy Warbuckses keep all their tax breaks. The current crop of Neanderthals in in the rethug party won't go along with Boner's compromise either. Let the negotiating end now. I'm thinking that the $500k offer is a no-go and Obama knows it. When the new Dems are sworn in in January, there will be more of them in both houses and maybe they'll have more leverage to make something happen. I'm also thinking that Obama isn't of the belief that the half-way compromise (which also puts SS and MC on the table) will be a no-go zone for most/all Dem legislators. There's no way Pelosi is gonna let that happen.

[vi5]

8. Tomorrow will bring all the spin and the apologists in full force...

"You don't understand negotiation/compromise!!!"
"It was the best we could do!!!!!! You should be thanking President Obama!!!!"
"He didn't have a choice!!!!!!"
"It's really a victory for our side!!!!!!! If you squint really hard, and look through this fogged up pair of glasses and tilt your head sideways then you'll see how clear it is that we really won and Obama's 12 level chess won the day again!!!!"

And no matter how many posts you can pull out from the archives showing that some of us predicted this level of caving and they all denied it would ever happen, they will never ever admit they were wrong.

[lunatica]

10. Careful. That cliff you want to jump off of is mighty close.

[Jakes Progress]

14. They've been preparing their excuses for weeks.

They knew he would cave too.

[lunatica]

9. No ponies for you

Ever. What a bastard!

[Jennicut]

15. You have been a member since December 16th.

If you bet on anything, none of us knew about it.

[bluestate10]

39. May be you should have been organizing instead of betting. Obama lost Missouri.

Obama won my state by close to 40 points. I take a wait and see position on what is in the agreement. I am one that feel that changes to the SS COLA may not be bad if done correctly. I have real skin in the game because after the agreement, if as proposed, I expect to end up paying more in taxes while, in the future being impacted by the COLA change - I am ok with all of that because the country needs me to make those sacrifices.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

56. Lier to the "Democrat" people?

Uh huh...

[forestpath]

16. Next up: Rise in Medicare age. If he says he's against something, that means he wants it.

[blkmusclmachine]

19. The White House doesn't have to keep up the pretense any longer.

2014 is gonna be a massacre.

[daa]

58. +1

[AnotherMcIntosh]

80. x2. Why should he or other Third-Way Democrats care?

[appacom]

22. The President is getting the best deal he can for ALL the people

so get the fuck off him. Did you really expect he wouldn't have to compromise on something?

[KansDem]

26. Social Security does not add to the deficit...

So why include it in the GOP's deficit reduction plans?

[MannyGoldstein]

30. Social Security has zero to do with the deficit. Obama said so himself.

So sign the petition:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/not-cut-social-security-andor-medicare-simply-keep-taxes-low-wealthiest-americans/wN1GL0PC

[KansDem]

33. I tried signing but this message keeps popping up

We were unable to return you to whitehouse.gov.

Internet Explorer has stopped trying to restore this website. It appears that the website continues to have a problem.
What you can do:
Go to your home page

Try to return to whitehouse.gov

More information

I tried twice and received the same message.

[MannyGoldstein]

35. I guess their mind is made up and they don't want our input

Or maybe try a different browser?

[bluestate10]

40. Welcome to DU. In general here on DU, few people want SS touched.

I am on the fence. I want the SS Cap eliminated, if that is in the plan, I am ok with adjustment to the SS COLA. If the SS Cap elimination is not in the plan, then I am less happy with the COLA adjustment unless it is done in a way that does not hurt people that collect SS. I benefit from the SS Cap being in place, but I also feel that the people benefiting from it can afford to lose it.

[gkhouston]

23. Another set of rumors from anonymous sources? n/t

[CatWoman]

24. and another "the sky is falling" bullshit thread promoting them

this place is soooo fucking predictable

[Hoyt]

27. +1000000

[jberryhill]

32. Yep

[BlueCaliDem]

31. I don't get some DUers. They have the match lit, ready, and held close to their hair

the moment some anonymous, off-the-record "source" farts a rumor. Then they set their hair on fire and go wailing into the cities and towns, too busy to vote, and when 2010 came around, decided they wanted to punish the president and not vote at all. That'll teach'em!

Result?

The Republicans happily took their petty scorn and ran with it, delivering the president a shellacking that swept a huge red wave across the nation, and then these same alarmists start wailing that the president doesn't get anything done in the last two years!

Jesus! If they want to know how the president governs, all they have to do is look at the past four years, noting the first two as the most progressive before they lit their hair on fire and sent the president the message that they wanted the Republican agenda more than the Democratic. Because that's what that "Republican shellacking" told everybody - the American people were opting for the destructive policies of the GOP and ALEC rather than the progressive policies of the Democrats. Of course, in their minds, they were punishing the president, but in the real world, they basically handed power to the GOP who is 100x worse than any Democrat. Did they learn? HELL NO. Here they are right back to lighting their hair.

[phleshdef]

36. I use to argue with them. Now I just mostly ignore them. They are a vocal minority but a minority.

[bluestate10]

41. Once a Nader Florida 2000 type mind, always a Nader Florida 2000 type mind.

Some people don't fucking get it that by helping elect Bush in 2000 because they were "unhappy" with the democrat nominee, they set the fucking country back four decades economically and created the very fucking conditions that they are wailing about now. Not to mention thousands of dead americans and troops because Bush fucked up leading up to 9/11 and later, wanted revenge for daddy. The Nader 2000 crowd chased a fucking car tire in 2000 and screwed the country royally, they need to get the fuck over themselves and their "pure progressive values".

[NYC Liberal]

45. Nothing new. Some here criticize the MSM (rightfully), but yet

they seem to lap up the MSM's bullshit with nary a though when it comes to anything that might making Obama look bad. And even when it's good news, it's never good enough. Obama does something "bad" they don't like, and he's called "traitor", "sell-out", "right-wing"...all the usual; however, when he does something good, his detractors often take credit because you see, he didn't really want to do it but he was "forced" to.

[Tarheel_Dem]

38. These "sources" aren't so anonymous anymore. We know exactly who they are....

and we know exactly what they're up to. They lost, and they should get the fuck over it. They got 0.03% of the vote, which is an embarrassment in & of itself, but they can't seem to stop embarrassing themselves even further by coming up with every anti-Obama conspiracy theory under the sun. "Rumors" are their stock & trade. Afterall, what else do they have?

This is why I'm fearful of some groups on the left. They are as dangerous & sinister as the Glenn Becks who scare the crap out of people about "FEMA Camps". The sad part is, it's a handful of pissed off people who lost, and they're intent on destroying the Democratic Party, and especially this president.

[bluestate10]

42. Now, Now. Those same people that got 0.03% of the vote are sure they can take a third

party and win the Presidency. Idiocy never ceases. May be Nader is 2016? I am sure some are salivating at the possibility.

[Tarheel_Dem]

54. They're delusional, and despite their best attempts, they've failed to spread the.....

condition to the rank & file of the Democratic Party. It pisses them off. Their major goal, all along, seems to be the complete & utter destruction of this party. They hold democrats in higher contempt than their rightwing "counterparts". Both extremes have one goal in mind. They have a lot more in common than they care to admit.

[dionysus]

75. why do you wanty grammy eatin cat food! damn you, them' fightin woids!1!1 put em up!111!

[Tarheel_Dem]

81. Not only that, but when their dire predictions don't come true (as usual), they can claim they made

the President back down, by typing angry screeds on the DU. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

[JuveDem]

28. I would like to see the larger deal in context

If he is able to get everything he wants (debt ceiling, leaving SS, medicare, etc intact) and the compromise from his side is going from 250 to 400, then I am ok with it.

[MannyGoldstein]

29. Don't like it? SIGN THE PETITION!

No Social Security cuts! ProSense and I developed it jointly, if you can believe it:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/not-cut-social-security-andor-medicare-simply-keep-taxes-low-wealthiest-americans/wN1GL0PC

[WhoWoodaKnew]

34. I remember Clinton talking about how they balanced

the budget. He said that first, he didn't hate republicans and were willing to talk with them. And most importantly, math.

[wilsonbooks]

68. As I recall. no republicans voted for the tax increases and they

killed us in the midterm elections using the tax issue to club us down.

[bluestate10]

37. I always favored a limit of $400,000. If a family lives in the Northeast, $250,000 is

not a lot of money if that family wants to live and have freedom on issues like education. I hear the argument that people in this region are living on a lot less, but life works that way. I care more that the $250,000 family is charitable within their capacity to give.

[julian09]

57. That family will get tax break on up to $250,000 of NET income after their

mortgage deductions, property tax deductions, health ins deduction, dependency deductions including self ,charitable deduction
tax credits, tax prep etc. They will be asked to pay a additional 4.6 cents on the dollar or $2300.00 on $300,000 and an additional $4600.00 on $350,000 etc.
$4600.00 additional tax on every $100,000 earned after deductions and $250,000 threshold.
That would be and additional $11,500 tax on the second $250,000.

[NYC Liberal]

43. A sky is falling post on DU -- thousands of times in 1,428 days.

What will tomorrow bring?

More of the usual.

[grantcart]

46. And Obama did it again.

Except he didn't and when the final deal comes in it always turns out that he got way more than was thought at the time.


Examples = Health Care he capped the Medical Loss Ratio and put the OPM in charge of vetting plans

Debt ceiling = brought the fiscal cliff with military cuts.

It would be novel for the panic brigade to actually wait for the facts but alas this is DU and that will not happen.

[NYC Liberal]

50. Remember when Kucinich announced he was voting for the HCR bill?

Some posters actually suggested that Obama had threatened him and that he'd better "avoid small planes".

I think that said it all.

[cliffordu]

60. That's right. It never will.

[rusty fender]

44. This deal will never happen

The Rs in the House will accept NO deal. Lots of sturm und drang over nothing.

[grantcart]

47. your right in a way. It will happen but it cannot happen until the stock market loses 20% of its

value and then the rich Republicans will beat up the Tea Partiers.

Eventually they will split if they have to and vote with the Dems, but there will be a deal, just not yet.

[rusty fender]

53. Nope. The Bush tax cuts will expire, the automatic

cuts will kick in, and we go from there, but the teabagger faithful in the House will never accept any deal with the Dems.

[grantcart]

72. They won't accept a deal but it will come one piece at a time.

The first will be for reducing taxes on the middle class.


They will have to vote for it.

[MjolnirTime]

48. Flinging trollshit doesn't become you.

[limpyhobbler]

52. I agree. Obama is a traitor to working class Americans.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

55. This is political brinksmanship....

Obama is extending offers KNOWING they'll be swatted away. This is, what, the third one in two weeks? So come January 1, he'll be able to legitimately say that he offered compromise after compromise to the Republicans, but they would have none of it.

And so the Fiscal Cliff is entirely their fault. Out there in America, there are dozens of 2014 Democratic congressional candidate who are loving this.

[NHDEMFORLIFE]

59. Totally right

I don't remember who coined the phrase - or even the precise wording, for that matter. But doesn't it go something like:
Making law is a ugly, messy business.
I prefer waiting to see a final product on the table before wielding a rhetorical sledgehammer on the White House.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

63. You may be looking for:

The two things you don't want to watch being made: Laws and Sausages.

[budkin]

61. ^This

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

71. Maybe

Problem is, the Rethugs MAY actually bite, knowing they won't get better, but it's a hell of a lot more than they should be getting. Shitbag Cantor says they have the votes.

[forestpath]

62. Fucked over by Nancy Pelosi too:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/18/nancy-pelosi-fiscal-cliff_n_2324042.html

From the Huffington Post:

WASHINGTON -- House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) is convinced her fellow Democrats will get behind the White House's latest "fiscal cliff" deal that cuts Social Security benefits and increases taxes on the middle class. Others in the party, however, hedged on the likelihood of that provision passing with a majority of Democratic votes.

President Barack Obama's latest offer in the fiscal cliff negotiations would allow the payroll tax holiday to expire, meaning middle-class workers will see smaller paychecks in 2013. It also proposes a Social Security reform known as "chained CPI" that would reduce the benefits senior citizens receive through Social Security.

Additionally, Obama's latest offer would permanently extend the Bush tax cuts for incomes of less than $400,000. Previously, the president had insisted that taxes increase on families with income above $250,000.

Despite these changes, Pelosi said she could convince her caucus to get behind such a plan, if need be.

Just one more reason I don't believe a word from any Democrat like Dick Durban who claims SS won't be cut.

[RBInMaine]

66. I think you are fucking yourself over with your post.

[RBInMaine]

67. More crap from the TeaLEFTists. We got screwed over in 2010 by the TeaLeftists who bitched and

moaned and didn't vote, so we got the Republicans in the House and many more R Senators, and now they bitch because Obama has to govern with them. It just never ends. No reality. No sense.

[FSogol]

69. +1

I don't think those people are really Democrats. This is just the beginning of the campaign to suppress liberal voting on 2014.
Even if they were honestly leftists, what politician/leader would ever meet their approval? None.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

70. Another bullshit AP story?

[Sunlei]

73. I will wait until Obama releases his official statements about the 'deal'.

What I care about most is the Bush tax breaks expire on Jan 1..that will happen no matter how much obama-hate-crap republicans throw around. Everything else will fall into place.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

74. Trashing thread...

[winetourdriver]

76. Really?

Come on, negotiations aren't even close to being over! Are you a troll or do your panties bunch for no reason?

[LiberalFighter]

77. Call your damn US Representative and US Senators about it?

Call the White House

[Yavin4]

79. Can You Provide A Link To Where Obama Is Cutting Soc. Security?

Thank you.