HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Retired » Retired Forums » 2016 Postmortem (Forum) » About those coastal/urban...

Wed Dec 7, 2016, 01:29 AM

About those coastal/urban elites..

A lot of hand-wringing-liberals have gone and swallowed up the "coastal elites" narrative thrown at us from the republicans.

One day we'll learn to stop fighting the battles the GOP wants us to fight...

And since I don't have the energy tonight for a rambling screed, I'll just pinch a quote from Marlon James' ( the author) fb page.

"
SHUTTING DOWN ELECTION BULLSHIT FROM LIBERALS, Day 3.

And then we've got those URBAN ELITES. Heard you heard of them URBAN ELITES? Even liberals hate them, because they're not "in touch" with what's going on in middle America. Funny thing though. URBAN ELITES just won the election, and they have middle America to thank for it. Trump, Kushner, Bannon, Milo Whatthefuckopulous, Guliani are all city boys with wealth and/or extreme privilege. You know, URBAN ELITES. The rest of us in urban areas are still trying to find a decent integrated school, trying to make 40 bucks stretch at Whole Foods, and living in fear that gentrification is going to leave us homeless, since our neighbor just got replaced by a new branch of Chase Bank. I'm about to go all DMX up in here."



8 replies, 2064 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 8 replies Author Time Post
Reply About those coastal/urban elites.. (Original post)
JHan Dec 2016 OP
NoGoodNamesLeft Dec 2016 #1
JHan Dec 2016 #3
NoGoodNamesLeft Dec 2016 #4
JHan Dec 2016 #5
NoGoodNamesLeft Dec 2016 #6
Wounded Bear Dec 2016 #7
NoGoodNamesLeft Dec 2016 #8
J_William_Ryan Dec 2016 #2

Response to JHan (Original post)

Wed Dec 7, 2016, 01:42 AM

1. Democratic elitism is not about wealth...

 

It's an attitude that is most often seen in some urban Democrats who think they are more intelligent and enlightened than everyone else, care more than everyone else and even know what is better for everyone else. That attitude also doesn't recognize that what works for and is desirable in urban areas is NOT the same for rural areas.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoGoodNamesLeft (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 7, 2016, 02:02 AM

3. So..

which liberal values were so problematic they felt targeted?

We're all struggling in our own ways, how much reaching out must I do - as a "person of color" - to a white person in a rural area who persistently votes against their self interests? How much understanding must I express when I get none in return...

Because when I raise issues BLM have raised I get accusations about "PC" and "Identity Politics" and "if only they followed the law..."- same with other social issues like LGBT rights and abortion rights. So when do we ask rural voters to step up ?

Which issues make the type of rural voter described in your post feel like we're crapping on them?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JHan (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 7, 2016, 09:34 AM

4. It's not the policies so much as it is the attitudes and assumptions towards the other side

 

I think the issue regarding BLM is that the very real and important problems that has led to that movement really requires a serious and long CONVERSATION. It's hard to have a conversation if one side is too angry, hurt and untrusting to have a genuine two way dialogue and the other side who wants to help is too angry, hurt and frustrated with being repeatedly accused, blamed and labelled as being racist.

In all honesty, I think the biggest barrier in race relations in this country is that both sides are very hurt (for different reasons) and refuse to set that aside and trust enough to have a respectful and meaningful discussion.

Now there are definitely plenty of real racists and white supremacists out there. You also do have institutional racism that is ingrained into society that unless you experience or have learned about it you would not notice. There are a lot of things people don't understand unless they actually experience it. Recognizing that is really important. Most white people are not racists. Some can be insensitive and say or do the wrong things without realizing it. Those people just need to be educated gently and you have to look at intent because that is so important. If someone unintentionally says something insensitive without every being told or realizing it's insensitive and you label them a racist that hurts. No one likes being judged unfairly and being a racist is a truly terrible, awful thing. Tossing that label around carelessly pushes people away who would otherwise be on your side.

Regarding BLM, I don't mind discussing it at all. It's an important movement and I absolutely support the cause. I do wish those few people who seem to capitalize on large gatherings of the movement to cause trouble would not do that, but I also understand that you can't blame and entire group for the ignorant behavior of a few. My biggest issue with the discussions about BLM is that I just don't do bigotry of any kind. I will call it out no matter where I see it. You can't have a productive conversation with someone if all they want to do is yell at you and blame the shit behavior of a few people on an entire group. I can't say if that is the issue for all people, but it definitely is for me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoGoodNamesLeft (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 7, 2016, 09:58 AM

5. But attitudes though?

Consider this: black people have always had to hold our noses when voting in this country, even when faced with contempt we've had to weigh carefully our options. We're used to this, from ever since and still we voted for politicians whose platform paid some attention, even the barest minimum, to the needs of those on the bottom rung of the ladder- both black and white.

I was one of the 94% of black women who voted Hillary because we knew criminal justice reform ( which would benefit poor whites too btw) and the economy were too important, so was fixing healthcare, climate change, and someone keeping us on the right path for the future. So when I hear things like "attitude" and "smugness" it sounds shallow and disingenuous, because compassion goes both ways - There are limits to my understanding when it comes to reaching out to whites who can't even see the commonalities in our struggles. Which is why I unhesitatingly hold voters accountable for their decisions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JHan (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 7, 2016, 10:46 AM

6. I should have explained it a bit better, let me try again...

 



During a discussion about early voting some people who live in Oregon like their mail in voting and because it works for them they think it should be instituted all over the country so that everyone has to just vote by mail and not go to polls. Some people, myself included, said no, we would not want to mail in our vote, that we prefer going in to vote. Some of us were pointing out some reasons why some people would want to go in and vote. Those arguing were talking down to other people on this site and talking like all the small town, rural and other state people didn't know what was good for them and that they were so much more enlightened about this and the law should just be changed because they knew it would be best for everyone. That is elitism.

Another example that is really common for this issue to show up with is gun control. Urban people have a much different view and relationship with guns than rural people do. In cities, guns are intended to be used against or protect against people. In rural areas guns are about putting food on the table for your family, recreation, sport and heirlooms. I grew up in the country. I think I was in the 2nd grade when I shot my first gun. When I was 12 I won a rifle at a turkey shoot (you didn't shoot turkeys, you won them by shooting at targets). I'm female. I used to go hunting. Hunting rifles are cherished family heirlooms that are passed down in families. Guns are a huge part of the rural way of life. Because of this difference between rural and urban there is a massive difference in views on guns. Often when the issue comes up there are a number of liberals who not only refuse to recognize how important guns are to rural Americans, they can be really disrespectful about it too. The radical factions on each side have gotten away with preventing rational discussion on guns for a long time. Democrats should really take a different approach towards guns. Most people want sensible gun control regarding background checks and limiting access to people who should not have them, but most other gun laws really should be based on regional needs, or maybe by population.

The last example I'll give is the way some liberals will talk down to or about people who disagree with them as if those people are stupid. That is extremely offensive and rude and plays a huge role in why Democrats have been slowly losing rural voters.

One last thing came to mind as well. I was born and raised in rural Maine. Growing up I used to spend much of my days walking along the coast or hiking through the woods near the coast. I went back home to visit a few years ago and found that it was nearly impossible to take a walk on the beaches where I grew up. The reason? Wealthy people from NY, CT and MA bought up all the homes as second vacation homes and plastered up "No Trespassing" signs everywhere. They don't really get to know their neighbors and only come for a couple of weeks every year. They just come in and buy up all coastal property and often put up things that block the views from the people who have lived there their whole lives and block access to the beach. That is something that REALLY pisses of rural people, too.

When people talk about "elitism" that is the kind of thing they are referring to.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoGoodNamesLeft (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 7, 2016, 11:02 AM

7. Meh...

Here's thing, though, what works for and is desirable in rural areas are NOT the same for urban areas.

It's a two way street, and the Red state rural areas just sold their soul and our lives to Mr Potter.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 7, 2016, 08:40 PM

8. When I was living in a rural area the people there knew that urban areas have different needs

 

When you are in rural areas the "city" is so far removed that the people really don't expect them to be just like the "country" folks. Rural people are more laid back and they won't say much for awhile, but when they've had enough they won't warn you...they'll just be done. I think that's what led to Trump winning those areas.

I think the best thing to help rural areas right now is get high speed internet everywhere and maybe even provide a subsidy for those with low income and a computer recycling program for those same families. There are so many jobs that can be done online now, and training is provided. Those jobs could help replace some of the manufacturing jobs.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JHan (Original post)

Wed Dec 7, 2016, 01:57 AM

2. "Democratic elitism..."

Strawman fallacy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread