Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
84 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
How we regarded election fraud and systemic bias in the primary (Original Post) hellofromreddit Dec 2016 OP
WOW !! Another "Russia Who?!" postmortem OP uponit7771 Dec 2016 #1
I didn't say anything about Russia one way or another. Is that some new requirement? hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #3
That's the point, everything else is peripheral and marginal at best ... uponit7771 Dec 2016 #4
Exactly. Squinch Dec 2016 #18
And it turns out that these talking points were promoted by Russia to keep the Bernie Bros mad Botany Dec 2016 #2
Ah, but that doesn't explain folks getting apoplectic about Sanders requesting a recanvas. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #7
Bernie and his recounts and his staying way to long helped us lose this election and there was no Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #26
Tell me, how did it feel to manipulated by Putin? CajunBlazer Dec 2016 #44
Childish bs like that has been costing us elections. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #52
I agree Botany. I have always felt like the emails that Russia stole and then leaked through skylucy Dec 2016 #33
your screen name, "hellofromreddit" hlthe2b Dec 2016 #5
Hi! hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #6
Yeah, like we really need the kind of shit the cesspool of reddit generated this election season. JTFrog Dec 2016 #11
BERNIE WUS ROBBED!!...nt SidDithers Dec 2016 #8
Yes, the Russians said so! CajunBlazer Dec 2016 #45
LOL. Still with the conspiracy theories? I look forward to your OPs about pizzagate. DanTex Dec 2016 #9
Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #17
I wonder why Bernie was not attacked by the Russians or the Repubicans Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #27
False. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #28
That obscure link to an ad no one saw is supposed to prove what exactly? nt stevenleser Dec 2016 #64
What's this hole in the ground?!? I could have sworn there was a goalpost here! hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #67
Directly addressing your points is moving goalposts to you? stevenleser Dec 2016 #69
This whole Russia thing is beginning to feel like Shock Doctrine to me. jalan48 Dec 2016 #10
I think many fear a civil war to be honest. JTFrog Dec 2016 #12
They won't get far. You forget not all of them are batshit crazies and want to get re-elected. duffyduff Dec 2016 #13
Then why isn't the Democratic Party leadership calling for massive protests? jalan48 Dec 2016 #15
Why would you think they would call for massive protests? When was the last time they Squinch Dec 2016 #19
I thought the Russians intervened to affect the outcome of our Presidential election. jalan48 Dec 2016 #20
You are suggesting that because the Democratic leaders aren't calling for riots in the streets Squinch Dec 2016 #21
Somehow protests/demonstrations became riots-interesting. jalan48 Dec 2016 #23
You aren't sensing I don't think its serious, because I have STATED that I DO think it's serious. Squinch Dec 2016 #40
Great to hear you are on board. jalan48 Dec 2016 #48
Wish you were on board. Don't know why you are pulling this bullshit, but I guess internet Squinch Dec 2016 #54
I'm not getting worked up until I see better evidence of fraud. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #24
Exactly.. I don't wanna turn into Alex Jones realmirage Dec 2016 #51
What do you expect our leaders to do exactly? Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #31
From what I'm hearing Hillary didn't lose. The Russian's cost her the election. jalan48 Dec 2016 #34
No, she lost in part because Putin manipulated Bernie supporters CajunBlazer Dec 2016 #46
I can't speak for others but that wasn't the case for me. jalan48 Dec 2016 #49
You seem to be insinutating that Putin was justified..... CajunBlazer Dec 2016 #55
No insinuation at all as to justification. Just more information on the background. jalan48 Dec 2016 #56
This is your post, read it with a fresh eye and tell me again how it can't possibly be read.... CajunBlazer Dec 2016 #58
I don't see it. Sorry. jalan48 Dec 2016 #59
My first sentence was a comment on your post .... CajunBlazer Dec 2016 #61
Thanks. I can see how my words might be interpreted in a way I had not intended. jalan48 Dec 2016 #74
Thanks for the clarification CajunBlazer Dec 2016 #78
YW jalan48 Dec 2016 #79
Your logic utterly fails. For example: Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2016 #82
I think you are replying to the wrong person CajunBlazer Dec 2016 #83
Nope. You. You are the one illogically reading a false insinuation into the quoted bit. . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2016 #84
Agree! +100 skylucy Dec 2016 #35
Dems NEVER do that sort of thing -- for better or worse. They try to take the high road Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #39
Nope, there were suspicions of this before Election Day while we all thought stevenleser Dec 2016 #65
This message was self-deleted by its author jalan48 Dec 2016 #14
Sanders was on the DC ballot BainsBane Dec 2016 #16
I always found that amusing.. JHan Dec 2016 #29
Nope. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #38
So if you think nothing untoward effected the primary results - why equate it with the Russian hacks bettyellen Dec 2016 #53
I'm pointing out the disparity of reactions around here. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #57
So mocking some voters is "interference"? Oh bullshit. bettyellen Dec 2016 #60
Not what I'm saying. Not playing that game with you either. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #62
It's what you said. Seriously that deserves more mocking. bettyellen Dec 2016 #63
A foolish consistency is indeed, the hobgoblin of little minds. LanternWaste Dec 2016 #72
Another "we deserve this because Bernie wasn't crowned king" thread? Seriously? bettyellen Dec 2016 #22
Obviously not what I said. All the text is there, feel free to reread as many times as you need. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #25
I won't read it...and I wonder who you voted for... Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #32
You're flat out calling Dems here hypocrites and it's bulllshit. bettyellen Dec 2016 #41
I just posted links to threads in the forum. What you're mad at is harsh reality. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #42
What's the harsh reality you keep tap dancing around? bettyellen Dec 2016 #43
Link hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #50
Nope, your links aren't reality, they are spin. nt stevenleser Dec 2016 #66
Well, yeah. That's kinda the point. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #68
Yes, it is. nt stevenleser Dec 2016 #70
Cowering behind obvious implication is good politics. LanternWaste Dec 2016 #73
Yep. I agree. That is getting really old, isn't it? skylucy Dec 2016 #36
*yawn* Lil Missy Dec 2016 #30
I've been a registered Democrat in NY for over 40 years. lapucelle Dec 2016 #37
Excellent post CajunBlazer Dec 2016 #47
A hundred times this!!!!! JHan Dec 2016 #76
... LexVegas Dec 2016 #71
+1. Funny isnt it. jack_krass Dec 2016 #75
Hillary beat Bernie by 4 million votes and she beat trump by almost 3 million..popular votes..nt asuhornets Dec 2016 #77
Is Reddit that anti-woman website? nt LexVegas Dec 2016 #80
That gave us Wiki-worship, and the Guccifer crap. bettyellen Dec 2016 #81
 

hellofromreddit

(1,182 posts)
3. I didn't say anything about Russia one way or another. Is that some new requirement?
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:16 AM
Dec 2016

OK, Russia did it.

Happy now?

uponit7771

(90,304 posts)
4. That's the point, everything else is peripheral and marginal at best ...
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:20 AM
Dec 2016

... well, happier than blaming Clinton first when there's so many outside factors that are tangible, documented and quantifiable...

yeah... sad about Russia that... fuck them

Botany

(70,449 posts)
2. And it turns out that these talking points were promoted by Russia to keep the Bernie Bros mad
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:12 AM
Dec 2016

"Russia successfully riled up Bernie Sanders die-hards against the Democratic Party by leaking minor
intrigue that fueled their suspicions, aggravating a Clinton liability with young voters that never healed."
- New York Magazine

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512652244

 

hellofromreddit

(1,182 posts)
7. Ah, but that doesn't explain folks getting apoplectic about Sanders requesting a recanvas.
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:25 AM
Dec 2016

It was the last link in that list. Here you go:

Bernie is demanding a recanvass in Kentucky over ONE delegate ...

Keep in mind, people are now calling for a redo of the entire presidential election (votes and all), but a recount of a single state primary was foil hat buffoonery or something. Can't blame that one on the imaginary berniebros.

Demsrule86

(68,471 posts)
26. Bernie and his recounts and his staying way to long helped us lose this election and there was no
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 07:43 PM
Dec 2016

systematic bias either.

skylucy

(3,737 posts)
33. I agree Botany. I have always felt like the emails that Russia stole and then leaked through
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 07:58 PM
Dec 2016

Wikileaks re. the Dem. Primary were done to make Bernie supporters not vote or vote for third party during the General Election. Also, the emails did not show anything unfair to Sanders had taken place. They just showed a few lower level people had said snarky things after Hillary had wrapped up the nomination with enough votes and Bernie stayed in at the race too long. Even Bernie's campaign manager said that those emails didn't amount to much and that there was plenty of snark in the Sanders campaign's emails in the heat of the primary battle.
It is odd that someone on DU is fixated on the Trump campaigns talking points (Trump and his shills certainly spent plenty of time trying to poison the minds of Bernie supporters against Hillary), instead of being concerned about the fact that we have a president elect who is Putin's puppet and was elected with lots of help from Putin, Comey, etc.

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
11. Yeah, like we really need the kind of shit the cesspool of reddit generated this election season.
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 01:43 PM
Dec 2016

Another bunch of useful idiots.

Response to DanTex (Reply #9)

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
69. Directly addressing your points is moving goalposts to you?
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 01:23 AM
Dec 2016

I think you need a refresher on the concept.

jalan48

(13,842 posts)
10. This whole Russia thing is beginning to feel like Shock Doctrine to me.
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:37 AM
Dec 2016

While we focus on Russia exclusively, the GOP will ram their awful legislation down our throats. If Russia is indeed involved to the level many of us think they might be, where are our Democratic legislators and leaders? Why aren't they encouraging citizens to join them in the streets in protest? Something isn't quite adding up.

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
12. I think many fear a civil war to be honest.
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 01:58 PM
Dec 2016

I'm not saying they are right or that they are right not to be screaming from the top of their lungs. I'm just saying that I think any attempt to remove Trump will result in wide spread violence.

That being said, I wish Obama would declare an emergency and bring in the national guard, state we are going to have a revote and see where the chips land. But I know my wish will never come true.




 

duffyduff

(3,251 posts)
13. They won't get far. You forget not all of them are batshit crazies and want to get re-elected.
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 02:01 PM
Dec 2016

The Russia threat is real. Putin is a Hitler or Stalin wannabe. Screwing up our country gives the Russians ample time to take over Eastern Europe, the Ukraine, etc.

The Russia threat is NOT a diversion. The Trump presidency IS a diversion, by design.

You have it exactly backwards.

jalan48

(13,842 posts)
15. Then why isn't the Democratic Party leadership calling for massive protests?
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 02:07 PM
Dec 2016

Are you saying these folks don't really know what is going on?

Squinch

(50,919 posts)
19. Why would you think they would call for massive protests? When was the last time they
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 03:44 PM
Dec 2016

did that?

It isn't something they've ever done. So what are you talking about?

jalan48

(13,842 posts)
20. I thought the Russians intervened to affect the outcome of our Presidential election.
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 04:08 PM
Dec 2016

Is this a big deal? Should Democrats and Americans do everything in their power to stop Trump? Or is this really getting blown out of proportion by some paranoid people? Have we seen anything like this before in our history? That's what I'm talking about-which side are you on?

Squinch

(50,919 posts)
21. You are suggesting that because the Democratic leaders aren't calling for riots in the streets
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 06:16 PM
Dec 2016

then the Russian intervention in the election is fake news. It isn't fake news. Your position is moronic. Which side are YOU on?

jalan48

(13,842 posts)
23. Somehow protests/demonstrations became riots-interesting.
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 07:01 PM
Dec 2016

President Trump is only six weeks away. I'm sensing you don't think that is all that serious. Perhaps he will look into the Russian interference and provide the American people with a full accounting? You are probably right, Democratic leadership should remain calm and await President Trump's actions on the issue.

Squinch

(50,919 posts)
40. You aren't sensing I don't think its serious, because I have STATED that I DO think it's serious.
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 09:45 PM
Dec 2016

YOU are suggesting this is a false flag operation.

Your slip is showing, buddy. A lot.

jalan48

(13,842 posts)
48. Great to hear you are on board.
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:37 PM
Dec 2016

Maybe you'll get out to one of the demonstrations coming up. I hope they don't get rowdy but given your concerns you just might want to stay on the sidelines to be safe. Perhaps watching on TV is the way to go for you.

Squinch

(50,919 posts)
54. Wish you were on board. Don't know why you are pulling this bullshit, but I guess internet
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:03 PM
Dec 2016

shenanigans have proven effective for you guys.

Still wanting to insist that this is a false flag operation? Funny! Bolton just said the same thing. You seem to have advance information.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,852 posts)
24. I'm not getting worked up until I see better evidence of fraud.
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 07:06 PM
Dec 2016

Swaying voters in other ways? We've been dealing with that kind of propaganda for years from Republicans.

Demsrule86

(68,471 posts)
31. What do you expect our leaders to do exactly?
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 07:51 PM
Dec 2016

We lost everything...and will lose the courts for a generation...those who failed to vote for Clinton cost us progressive policy since Roosevelt...now I have no doubt the Democrat elected will filibuster and McConnell will break the filibuster...and do what the GOP has always wanted to do...and I would appreciate it if People who are progressive would refrain from blaming Democrats for what the GOP does...not that it really matters at this point. And as for those who believe that if you tear it all down (the Democratic Party) ...well you got your wish...and maybe this time you will learn for all time ...that never happens as in not ever. We had a shot to enact serious progressive policy and blew it because of petty politics...damn shame.

jalan48

(13,842 posts)
34. From what I'm hearing Hillary didn't lose. The Russian's cost her the election.
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 08:01 PM
Dec 2016

I'd like to see our leaders get more excited about this travesty. A few are speaking out but most are curiously quiet. Comparisons of Trump to Hitler and Mussolini are all over DU. Are we just over-reacting?

CajunBlazer

(5,648 posts)
46. No, she lost in part because Putin manipulated Bernie supporters
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:34 PM
Dec 2016

And in part because some Bernie supporters fell for it. Even if they held their nose and voted for Clinton, I bet not many got out their wallets or volunteered to to work in her campaign like they did for Bernie. Am I right or not?

jalan48

(13,842 posts)
49. I can't speak for others but that wasn't the case for me.
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:48 PM
Dec 2016

I saw on another post that Putin was retaliating against Clinton because he thought she had interfered in his election in 2011. So much blame to go around and it seems to be growing and never ending.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8355119

CajunBlazer

(5,648 posts)
55. You seem to be insinutating that Putin was justified.....
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:23 PM
Dec 2016

... when he had is people work against Hillary the general election because he thought "he had interfered in his election in 2011". "So much blame to go around"? That's past sick!!!

The only thing Hillary did to "interfere in Putin election" was to point out what most international observers of the Russian 2011 were saying - that Putin had rigged the election - which he certainly had.

This is what the Putin calls interference - from The Daily Caller

In December 2011, Russian Prime Minister Vladamir Putin criticized then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for interfering in Russian elections after she demanded an investigation of whether Putin’s party had rigged the parliamentary elections, thereby denying the voices of the voters.

“Russian voters deserve a full investigation of electoral fraud and manipulation,” Clinton declared in early December of that year. “Regardless of where you live, citizenship requires holding your government accountable,” she said later.

Clinton also argued that rigged elections prevent the people from having their voices heard.

“The Russian people, like people everywhere, deserve the right to have their voices heard and their votes counted,” Clinton said while in Germany. (Independent election monitors, it’s worth noting, reported widespread ballot stuffing by pro-Putin actors.)


http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/25/dec-2011-hillary-clinton-angers-putin-demands-investigation-into-russian-electoral-fraud/

So Putin and his buddy rig the Russian elections and when someone call them on it and you insinuate that it's okay for them to try to rig our election in favor of Trump as well. Yea, I can see why you might think Hillary got what she deserved.

jalan48

(13,842 posts)
56. No insinuation at all as to justification. Just more information on the background.
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:26 PM
Dec 2016

Not sure where you got that. This is our former ambassador to Russia speaking.

CajunBlazer

(5,648 posts)
58. This is your post, read it with a fresh eye and tell me again how it can't possibly be read....
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:33 PM
Dec 2016

....as insinuating that Hillary brought on the Russian hacks and Wikileaks revelations of stolen emails on herself"

I saw on another post that Putin was retaliating against Clinton because he thought she had interfered in his election in 2011. So much blame to go around and it seems to be growing and never ending.

Well?

jalan48

(13,842 posts)
59. I don't see it. Sorry.
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:41 PM
Dec 2016

Where did your first sentence come from?

......as insinuating that Hillary brought on the Russian hacks and Wikileaks revelations of stolen emails on herself"

I didn't write that.

CajunBlazer

(5,648 posts)
61. My first sentence was a comment on your post ....
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 12:55 AM
Dec 2016

.... Which reads as follows:

I saw on another post that Putin was retaliating against Clinton because he thought she had interfered in his election in 2011. So much blame to go around and it seems to be growing and never ending.

And you apparently can't understand why I might comment on on your statement (above) by saying, "You seem to be insinuating that Putin was justified when he had is people work against Hillary the general election because he thought 'he had interfered in his election in 2011". 'So much blame to go around"?

Apparently you either were insinuating that Hillary brought the Russians hacks on herself or you have trouble understanding how other people will react to your posts. Either way you need to think before you post.

jalan48

(13,842 posts)
74. Thanks. I can see how my words might be interpreted in a way I had not intended.
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 01:40 PM
Dec 2016

My intent was to show how "blame" has taken on a life of it's own, not rationalize Putin's behavior. I think we need to get past the blame stage and on to a strategy for the future.

Bernardo de La Paz

(48,966 posts)
82. Your logic utterly fails. For example:
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 07:00 PM
Dec 2016

If a judge convicts a violent criminal of spouse abuse and then later they get out and kill the judge, then your logic would say "the judge brought it on her/himself".

When person A does something to anger B who then retaliates against A does not mean that A "brought it on themselves".

It doesn't matter if A and B are business people where A blocks a merger & acquisition by B.

It doesn't matter if A is Hillary and B is Putin.

It doesn't matter if A and B are posters on DU where an angry B cyber-bullies A in retaliation.

Posters like Jalan and other DU posters are perfectly within bounds to assert that A bothered B and then B retaliated. When they do so, they can't be accused of "insinuating" that A brought B's illegal or unethical actions down on themselves.

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
39. Dems NEVER do that sort of thing -- for better or worse. They try to take the high road
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 08:35 PM
Dec 2016

and god it is frustrating.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
65. Nope, there were suspicions of this before Election Day while we all thought
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 01:21 AM
Dec 2016

Hillary was winning.

Besides, being concerned about an elections integrity when there is ample reason is Shock doctrine? Do you think Klein would really agree with that?

Response to hellofromreddit (Original post)

BainsBane

(53,016 posts)
16. Sanders was on the DC ballot
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 02:13 PM
Dec 2016

It was a temporary clerical issue that was quickly resolved, though some wanted to make it into a conspiracy theory. The irony of the complaints about closed primaries while depending on the far more restrictive caucus system exposed that access to the ballot was not a concern at all. We had people here (following the lead of one of their favored radio entertainers) in utter outrage that some states allowed the elderly and the disabled to participate in caucuses via proxies. Then we had people insisting the votes of Southern states shouldn't count at all. Then after it was mathematically impossible for Sanders to win, they insisted the votes of citizens should be discarded in favor of polls by corporate media outlets. That was a particularly notable irony given the campaign rhetoric about corporations.

It was then I learned how little democracy and equal voting rights meant in certain quarters. Far too many were eager to jettison citizen rights to install in power their favored member of the political elite.

This OP would seem to constitute your excuse for Russian interference in the election. After a couple of days ago you insisted voters were not to be blamed for their choices, you now post some threads in an effort to blame voters for their choices.

I find it interesting how anxious some are to make excuses when they like the results of an election, while condemning similar or far lesser things when a contest doesn't turn out how they want.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
29. I always found that amusing..
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 07:48 PM
Dec 2016

complain about closed primaries..

....... then rely on caucuses ( which are sooo democratic) /sarc

 

hellofromreddit

(1,182 posts)
38. Nope.
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 08:22 PM
Dec 2016
This OP would seem to constitute your excuse for Russian interference in the election. After a couple of days ago you insisted voters were not to be blamed for their choices, you now post some threads in an effort to blame voters for their choices.

I'm pointing out that the excuses made then undermine the concern some around here express today. In some cases it's the very same user names, amusingly enough. It's an example of why we ought to have some damn principles all the time, not just when we feel like it.

FWIW, I'm confident that the weirdness in the primary didn't flip the election, but the insulting way concerns were addressed (as you can see in the examples provided) helped nobody, and effectively drove away some voters. And I don't mean just the posters in here, I mean the party. The party treated its own primary voters like trash because they didn't respect those voters or their concerns.

Its no wonder Clinton lost after her buddies in the party poisoned the well of young voters. If anybody cost Clinton the GE, it was Clinton's campaign, the DNC, and their sycophants in the PACs. You best fix that, 2018's coming.
 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
53. So if you think nothing untoward effected the primary results - why equate it with the Russian hacks
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:01 PM
Dec 2016

Possible blackmail and wiki's dissemination of exaggerated and false negative stories in the media?

You'll be reminded that those stories were first spread during the primaries. By Dems. Not calling THAT out, I see.

 

hellofromreddit

(1,182 posts)
57. I'm pointing out the disparity of reactions around here.
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:28 PM
Dec 2016

Election interference is totally excusable when it helps, and utterly inexcusable when it doesn't. Even as far as mocking our own voters. That hypocrisy made space for this kind of mess, and the reason democrats in power are largely downplaying it is because they don't want to eat a bunch of crow.

I also happen to believe that the hacking isn't the reason Clinton lost. Now, if we get some evidence that voting machines were tampered with and results were actually manipulated, that's a very different ball of wax. But right now all the talk is about them taking advantage of incompetent IT within the DNC (it has been incompetent for quite some time) and airing out their dirty laundry.

In a way that's amusing, seeing as it's a dem president at the helm during the vast expansion of invasive domestic electronic spying. Seems like they'd know to prepare better. Either way, it did reveal some actual bad behavior, like the DNC treatment of the Sanders campaign, the odd way donations to states was siphoned back to the presidential campaign, and Brazile's collusion and cheating. The hackers didn't make that stuff up; it's all verified at this point, and it made Clinton look bad. Had Clinton's campaign and allies behaved as they're supposed to, there would have been a whole lot less impact from that dump.

Not calling THAT out, I see

Next time I'm psychic I'll make it a point to do things in the order you like best.
 

hellofromreddit

(1,182 posts)
62. Not what I'm saying. Not playing that game with you either.
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 01:02 AM
Dec 2016

Start talking like a grownup if you want my attention.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
63. It's what you said. Seriously that deserves more mocking.
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 01:08 AM
Dec 2016

Not going to kick this chickenshit OP that tries to criticize Dems for being hypocrites when you equate a normal primary with what the Russians have been doing.

It's complete bullshit and no one is buying it.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
72. A foolish consistency is indeed, the hobgoblin of little minds.
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 10:21 AM
Dec 2016

A foolish consistency is indeed, the hobgoblin of little minds.

Two different forms of activity, two different post analyses, two different pre-analyses, three different players, two different levels of voting, etc. But other than that, they're precisely the same, regardless of your psychic pretenses...

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
73. Cowering behind obvious implication is good politics.
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 10:23 AM
Dec 2016

Cowering behind obvious implication is good politics. It allows one to easily deny their own convictions when called on them, and instead, advertise a narrative that doesn't exist...

lapucelle

(18,187 posts)
37. I've been a registered Democrat in NY for over 40 years.
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 08:12 PM
Dec 2016

Nobody games our primaries. If you want a voice in selecting the party's nominees, you need to declare your affiliation before the previous year's general election.

I spent weekends in September and early October in PA helping to re-register Democrats who had been thrown off the rolls due to new registration requiremjents. In mid to late October, we helped devise voting plans for the working poor. Whining about being uninformed and missing deadlines because you were too busy to look up they information on your iPhone and then declare party affiliation by filling out a short form on a website is a complaint of the privileged.

I canvassed in PA with people who had voted for Sanders in the primary. They knew how important it was.

Those newly disenfranchised by the gutting of the Voting Rights Act were counting on us to show up on November 8. We let them down.

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»How we regarded election ...