Tue Dec 13, 2016, 06:30 PM

RBInMaine (13,570 posts)

Bernie filled stadiums. Much as I like Hillary, she just wasn't an exciting candidate.

Last edited Fri Dec 16, 2016, 04:56 PM - Edit history (2)

Enough of the Bernie bashing. That's ridiculous. He filled stadiums. He brought millions into the party. He excited people with a CLEAR and COMPELLING message. I wish I had a dime for everyone I know who said they would have voted for Bernie if he had been our nominee.

Please don't get me wrong. I really like Hillary and really wanted her to win. But the hard truth is Hillary could barely get a thousand people to attend her primary rallies and had mostly pretty small general election rallies too. Her primary campaign was just plain lackluster. She was seen as the past and the establishment in an era where people are just sick and tired of insiders. They wanted someone new. She and her team made huge mistakes not campaigning where necessary, not having a CLEAR and COMPELLING populist economic message front and center, and trying to win over moderate suburban Republican women who were SOFT in their support instead of shoring up the working class base. She also spent too much time with donors or off the campaign trail in August and September. Very bad moves!

Polling indicates that Bernie had a much better chance of beating Trump than did Clinton. Would that have happened? Not sure. Bloomberg was talking about getting in if Bernie had done so and that could have ruined him with a split vote. But in a head to head I think both Hillary and Bernie would have won (the third party candidates screwed it up for us too), and Bernie would have won by more than Hillary and probably much more.

Right now the party needs a MASSIVE re-boot with a return to the 50 state strategy, and the message of JOBS FOR EVERYONE EVERYWHERE (including small town America which is HURTING)!!

We are in an era of OUTSIDER POLITICS, and Hillary, sadly, was the ultimate insider.

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177 replies	Author	Time	Post
Bernie filled stadiums. Much as I like Hillary, she just wasn't an exciting candidate. (Original post)	RBInMaine	Dec 2016	OP
Some serious BS with this line.	NCTraveler	Dec 2016	#1
And many more did not show up or went third party or to Trump. Those are just the facts.	RBInMaine	Dec 2016	#2
And many more voted for Clinton than Trump. Just the fact.	George II	Dec 2016	#10
Why? Because a Hillary nomination led to a Trump Presidency.	virtualobserver	Dec 2016	#54
This. nt	redqueen	Dec 2016	#77
THIS. is the bottom line.	RazBerryBeret	Dec 2016	#78
Sanders and his supporters carrying water for the Republicans led to a Trump Presidency	LongtimeAZDem	Dec 2016	#79
nonsense....you imagine Hillary as a fragile victim....	virtualobserver	Dec 2016	#80
Not at all; Sanders supporters repeated Republican attacks as gospel,	LongtimeAZDem	Dec 2016	#82
I supported Sanders, and voted for Hillary in the GE.	virtualobserver	Dec 2016	#83
That's bullshit. The bernie or bust crew wasn't large enough to to that. The vast	dionysus	Dec 2016	#106
They Went 3rd Party or Not At All & We Lost	otohara	Dec 2016	#173
Can you prove any of that with data, and not some anecdote from JPR types? If you can actually prove	dionysus	Dec 2016	#176
Here	otohara	Dec 2016	#177
Hillary was fighting an anti-establishment head wind.	Dustlawyer	Dec 2016	#155
And clearly Bernie did not have a competent campaign as he couldn't even win the primary. n/t	seaglass	Dec 2016	#89
Bernie was a complete unknown, yet he did well...especially considering DWS's debate freeze out.....	virtualobserver	Dec 2016	#98
Why was he unknown if he was in Congress for 30 years and on talk radio for 10?	seaglass	Dec 2016	#99
He is well known now, and highly regarded, nationwide.....	virtualobserver	Dec 2016	#139
His 10 Years On Radio Was Effective In Demonizing Democrats	otohara	Dec 2016	#174
Unknown after 30 years in the Senate?	sheshe2	Dec 2016	#129
He is not unknown any more....and is highly regarded...which says a lot more.	virtualobserver	Dec 2016	#140
Yes he is.	sheshe2	Dec 2016	#143
So would a Bernie nomination	jmowreader	Dec 2016	#141
we know that Hillary lost....	virtualobserver	Dec 2016	#161
Why?	Kentonio	Dec 2016	#168
4.3 million more votes in California, which we will see more of in the future, it wasn't nationally.	braddy	Dec 2016	#75
Re: 4.3 million more votes in California	SFnomad	Dec 2016	#154
If they were that fucking stupid	Island Blue	Dec 2016	#36
This was about issues	DK504	Dec 2016	#132
So You Must Attend A Rally	otohara	Dec 2016	#172
They were also a LOT of alt-righters there that were NEVER voting for him in the general.	LaydeeBug	Dec 2016	#146
Post removed	Post removed	Dec 2016	#3
And some of her supporters dismissed the very idea of building enthusiasm.	Ken Burch	Dec 2016	#4
When has "enthusiasm" or lack thereof, ever been an issue in a Presidential election?	George II	Dec 2016	#13
Not an issue...a factor.	Ken Burch	Dec 2016	#14
I don't think "charisma" had much to do with some, if not all, of those elections.	George II	Dec 2016	#18
In 1976, the Democrats were going to take the White House no matter what.	Ken Burch	Dec 2016	#20
That is definitely not true	oberliner	Dec 2016	#26
Carter was thirty points ahead at one point in the summer.	Ken Burch	Dec 2016	#45
It was tied in October	oberliner	Dec 2016	#48
It was very close - Ford had bad gaffe too (saying Poland wasn't under Soviet influence)	MrPurple	Dec 2016	#102
I don't recall Nixon being known as the "moderate/liberal" in 1968, in fact he wasn't.	braddy	Dec 2016	#74
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockefeller_Republican	George II	Dec 2016	#85
Nixon was not seen as the moderate/liberal candidate in 1968, and he was running against Rockefeller	braddy	Dec 2016	#86
What one is "seen as" and what one actually "was" are two totally different things.	George II	Dec 2016	#92
Nixon was not a liberal in 1968, and Rockefeller was running against him in 1968.	braddy	Dec 2016	#93
Compared to 1968 field, Nixon wasn't liberal. Compared to today's Rethugs, he is.	MrPurple	Dec 2016	#103
Very good post Ken	lastone	Dec 2016	#64
There's a problem with your theory	mythology	Dec 2016	#5
Didn't Gallup predict a Hillary win in the GE?	Exilednight	Dec 2016	#7
And didn't she win?	yallerdawg	Dec 2016	#27
Where will she be on inauguration day?	Exilednight	Dec 2016	#40
Gallup didnt poll the presidential race this cycle	MadBadger	Dec 2016	#104
Who said anything about polling?	Exilednight	Dec 2016	#111
No no no! We need more of the same! It's been working out so well!	aidbo	Dec 2016	#6
she still got more people to actually vote for her	JI7	Dec 2016	#8
Sure. But considering who she was running against, it should have	dionysus	Dec 2016	#107
look at what congress is made up of	JI7	Dec 2016	#110
Good points. Sadly, that means there's more racism and misogny out there	dionysus	Dec 2016	#112
It was by 3 mil votes,	sheshe2	Dec 2016	#130
We both no, to gore's lament, that's not what we're talking about.	dionysus	Dec 2016	#138
She ran against trump, who had already defeated 16 other contenders, agains the KGB, against Comey,	lunamagica	Dec 2016	#160
Let's not grant trump any credit where credit is not due. And to suggest the voters were	dionysus	Dec 2016	#167
Yes, but by spending more time campaigning in Cali than Wisconsin, we got the Fuhrer-Elect. Not a good strategy going for the win in the popular vote.	InAbLuEsTaTe	Dec 2016	#122
Why didn't that translate into votes?	George II	Dec 2016	#9
It translated into far more votes than anyone expected.	Ken Burch	Dec 2016	#16
55+% is much more. And that "superdelegate" excuse is just that, an excuse. How many of the.....	George II	Dec 2016	#19
Almost all of them.	Ken Burch	Dec 2016	#21
You're entitled to your opinion. But I doubt you can bolster that opinion with fact.	George II	Dec 2016	#22
It's a fact that Bernie did far better than anyone expected.	Ken Burch	Dec 2016	#23
I referring to your fact that "almost all" of the 30 million people who participated....	George II	Dec 2016	#24
Yet Hillary only won what was it, 4 out of all of those yellow states in the general?	Autumn	Dec 2016	#63
Post removed	Post removed	Dec 2016	#91
the write in is still pretty much wanting or ok with Trump as president	JI7	Dec 2016	#100
Yes, let's shrink the party... perhaps we can teot out another classic like	dionysus	Dec 2016	#108
Your map illustrates the southern primary strategy.	HassleCat	Dec 2016	#117
It shows the fact that Sanders may not be as progressive as some would like to think.	George II	Dec 2016	#118
Or perhaps more progressive.	HassleCat	Dec 2016	#119
The fundamental problem is that by and large	forjusticethunders	Dec 2016	#158
Exactly, George.. why didn't the "big stadiums" translate	Cha	Dec 2016	#33
80,000 who gave Trump the E.C can barely fill a stadium themselves..	JHan	Dec 2016	#58
You're missing the point. The point is, if she excited people the way bernie did, or got	dionysus	Dec 2016	#109
Do you really think that the GOP...	SaschaHM	Dec 2016	#11
neither of them are gonna run again in 4 years, so I suggest looking forward.	Warren DeMontague	Dec 2016	#12
I like Gavin Newsom. Great pic.	ms liberty	Dec 2016	#162
Exactly. Because that's what leaders do. They lead.	Warren DeMontague	Dec 2016	#163
Comey, voter suppression And Russia... Empirical factors everything else is guessing	uponit7771	Dec 2016	#15
Like the DU gunner in NC who claims that's what the voters were grumbling about Nov 8..eom	Kolesar	Dec 2016	#56
Bernie Sanders did absolutely nothing for me, my family, and friends...nt	asuhornets	Dec 2016	#17
Not in my town he didn't, but the press pretended he did.	ucrdem	Dec 2016	#25
That is magnanimous of you RBinMaine.. Thanks.	CentralMass	Dec 2016	#28
Small town America and the rural areas won't vote for us we need to get the Obama coalition and the	coolbreeze77	Dec 2016	#29
Ugh... Staaaaaaaaahp! Just Staaaaahp!	Squinch	Dec 2016	#30
Exciting is horribly overrated.	stopbush	Dec 2016	#31
Please stop this already. n/t	rzemanfl	Dec 2016	#32
+1,000,000	AgadorSparticus	Dec 2016	#37
Yes.	tecelote	Dec 2016	#51
Bernie "filled stadiums" with white people. That's not the Democratic party, and for that I'm.....	Tarheel_Dem	Dec 2016	#34
Brava!	sheshe2	Dec 2016	#133
Yep. His brand of economic populism became a turnoff.	kcr	Dec 2016	#148
Hillary's campaign was designed for her to listen to voters. Bernie's campaign	oasis	Dec 2016	#35
Bingo!	EffieBlack	Dec 2016	#60
So Hillary never made promises...	TCJ70	Dec 2016	#94
It was Bernie's "pie-in-the-sky"pitch that filled the stadiums.	oasis	Dec 2016	#95
Pie-in-the-sky...kinda like "Hope and Change". So vague, right? N/t	TCJ70	Dec 2016	#97
"Vague"? Not to those who recognize bullshit when they hear it.	oasis	Dec 2016	#101
HRC didn't rent stadiums, she did smaller venues and events that involved meeting with and talking	synergie	Dec 2016	#38
Spot on perfect analysis!	EffieBlack	Dec 2016	#61
BS ... it cost a LOT of money	PassingFair	Dec 2016	#88
Bingo.	TexasMommaWithAHat	Dec 2016	#156
Lol	Dem2	Dec 2016	#39
A new hobby might be in order.	grossproffit	Dec 2016	#41
Oh bullshit.	ismnotwasm	Dec 2016	#42
I like this. Succinct and right on the money!	justhanginon	Dec 2016	#53
Bernie filled stadiums.	NanceGreggs	Dec 2016	#43
And to put a finer point on it, voters in Michigan, Wisconsin and Ohio count even more.	Hassin Bin Sober	Dec 2016	#114
To put an even finer point on it ...	NanceGreggs	Dec 2016	#136
Useless post/thread. For Christ's sake, please stop this. n/t	VOX	Dec 2016	#44
Hillary filled voting booths. Much as I liked BS, he lost the primary by millions.	Hekate	Dec 2016	#46
Excitement isn't everything.	Orsino	Dec 2016	#47
The Beatles filled stadiums, too	DFW	Dec 2016	#49
Well, when you are bigger than God...	Kolesar	Dec 2016	#57
Lennon wrote better songs	DFW	Dec 2016	#70
Paul McCartney had considerable activism on animal rights and climate protection	Kolesar	Dec 2016	#145
It's not that Hillary wasn't an exciting candidate, it's that Bernie was speaking to people's hearts	Yo_Mama	Dec 2016	#50
... and speaking to people's hearts is what was exciting. Just look at the faces of people at his	JudyM	Dec 2016	#68
I don't see the images you posted.	sheshe2	Dec 2016	#134
Bernie filled the stadiums with people who didn't vote. Hillary filled the voting booths. n/t	Lil Missy	Dec 2016	#52
Sanders was devoid of substance: free college, should have locked up the bankers, ...	Kolesar	Dec 2016	#55
Difficult to be exciting when you are constantly fighting off....	democratisphere	Dec 2016	#59
Bernie mostly "filled stadiums" on college campuses ...he was the cool grandpa	Dream Girl	Dec 2016	#62
Much as I liked Bernie Sanders at first	Demsrule86	Dec 2016	#65
Yeah, but filled stadiums didn't translate into more votes for him.	tammywammy	Dec 2016	#66
Like with Gore I just can't answer	treestar	Dec 2016	#67
Spoken like an intellectual. Pity we don't have a country full of them.	JudyM	Dec 2016	#69
Seriously- this cult of personality shit is killing us. Enough.	bettyellen	Dec 2016	#72
Enjoy the Trump presidency	Emilybemily	Dec 2016	#71
+1 (nt)	LongtimeAZDem	Dec 2016	#84
Inaccurate analysis in an attempt to stoke division.	NCTraveler	Dec 2016	#73
If we are indeed in an era of "outsider politics", why are 98% of incumbents re-elected?	guillaumeb	Dec 2016	#76
absolutely spot on....	mike_c	Dec 2016	#81
She was smart, she worked hard, she was honest and she was flexible.	ucrdem	Dec 2016	#87
Ouch!	sheshe2	Dec 2016	#135
Mahalo, ucr!	Cha	Dec 2016	#166
Bernie Lost. Move on with your life. Hillary won the Primary and the General in popular vote.	Lil Missy	Dec 2016	#90
Are we supposed to learn from our mistakes, or circle the wagons and pretend they don't exist?	dionysus	Dec 2016	#121
Agreed.	hellofromreddit	Dec 2016	#128
She won. It was stolen. End of story.	Lil Missy	Dec 2016	#142
Well, tell yourself whatever makes you feel good. As far as bernie, he didn't	dionysus	Dec 2016	#144
and yours amount to "concern trolling".	Lil Missy	Dec 2016	#147
Yes, i am concerned your wing of the party might cause consecutive losses, the way shit is going!	dionysus	Dec 2016	#149
President Obama said at his recent press conference that there is no evidence that the actual vote	totodeinhere	Dec 2016	#164
didn't like Hillary but still voted for her	formerGreenParty	Dec 2016	#96
She wasn't that bad.. she did generate a lot of excitement.. but among the hardcore base. But she	dionysus	Dec 2016	#105
I hope they're excited about the massive shit sandwich	Charles Bukowski	Dec 2016	#113
Sometimes i believe that as a country, we collectively deserve what we ask for...	dionysus	Dec 2016	#120
This message was self-deleted by its author	andym	Dec 2016	#115
Enthusiasm helps, but look at the two George Bush's for examples of candidates who won	andym	Dec 2016	#116
So your opinion is large crowds votes.....	Historic NY	Dec 2016	#123
thank you	DonCoquixote	Dec 2016	#124
Without rehashing the primary	crazycatlady	Dec 2016	#125
Bernie filled stadiums, Hillary got more votes. Trump filled stadiums, Hillary got more votes.	brooklynite	Dec 2016	#126
Trump won. Maybe we should have gone with the guy who filled stadiums...n/t	TCJ70	Dec 2016	#150
Do you want imagine Trump had no oppo to use against Sanders?	brooklynite	Dec 2016	#151
Did I say that? n/t	TCJ70	Dec 2016	#153
When one party rigs an election, it's really not a win.	underthematrix	Dec 2016	#127
Utter GARBAGE. Hillary drew virtually the same number of votes as Obama 2012	pnwmom	Dec 2016	#131
Post removed	Post removed	Dec 2016	#137
The DNC had 4 of it's top members resign including the chair person. What was that about?	think	Dec 2016	#152
Wow!	LiberalFighter	Dec 2016	#157
If he was so exciting, why didn't he excite people to vote?	lunamagica	Dec 2016	#159
Post removed	Post removed	Dec 2016	#165
Let's also not forget the huge numbers of new supporters	Kentonio	Dec 2016	#169
Seems excitement won out over actual ability & competence.	baldguy	Dec 2016	#170
As An Older Voter - Bullshit	otohara	Dec 2016	#171
Lots of truth here.	realmirage	Dec 2016	#175

Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 06:34 PM

NCTraveler (30,481 posts)

1. Some serious BS with this line.

"I wish I had a dime for everyone I know who said they would have voted for Bernie if he had been our nominee."

They had their chance to vote. Over four million unenthusiastic people showed up for Clinton. That isn't the only questionable part of your op.

Unless you are saying it would get you a pack of gum.

Bernie filled stadiums. Much as I like Hillary, she just wasn't an exciting candidate.

1. Some serious BS with this line.

2. And many more did not show up or went third party or to Trump. Those are just the facts.

10. And many more voted for Clinton than Trump. Just the fact.

54. Why? Because a Hillary nomination led to a Trump Presidency.

77. This. nt

78. THIS. is the bottom line.

79. Sanders and his supporters carrying water for the Republicans led to a Trump Presidency

80. nonsense....you imagine Hillary as a fragile victim....

82. Not at all; Sanders supporters repeated Republican attacks as gospel,

83. I supported Sanders, and voted for Hillary in the GE.

106. That's bullshit. The bernie or bust crew wasn't large enough to to that. The vast

173. They Went 3rd Party or Not At All & We Lost

176. Can you prove any of that with data, and not some anecdote from JPR types? If you can actually prove

177. Here

155. Hillary was fighting an anti-establishment head wind.

89. And clearly Bernie did not have a competent campaign as he couldn't even win the primary. n/t

98. Bernie was a complete unknown, yet he did well...especially considering DWS's debate freeze out.....

99. Why was he unknown if he was in Congress for 30 years and on talk radio for 10?

139. He is well known now, and highly regarded, nationwide.....

174. His 10 Years On Radio Was Effective In Demonizing Democrats

129. Unknown after 30 years in the Senate?

140. He is not unknown any more....and is highly regarded...which says a lot more.

143. Yes he is.

141. So would a Bernie nomination

161. we know that Hillary lost....

168. Why?

75. 4.3 million more votes in California, which we will see more of in the future, it wasn't nationally.

154. Re: 4.3 million more votes in California

36. If they were that fucking stupid

132. This was about issues

172. So You Must Attend A Rally

146. They were *also* a LOT of alt-righters there that were NEVER voting for him in the general.

4. And some of her supporters dismissed the very idea of building enthusiasm.

13. When has "enthusiasm" or lack thereof, ever been an issue in a Presidential election?

14. Not an issue...a factor.

18. I don't think "charisma" had much to do with some, if not all, of those elections.

20. In 1976, the Democrats were going to take the White House no matter what.

26. That is definitely not true

45. Carter was thirty points ahead at one point in the summer.

48. It was tied in October

102. It was very close - Ford had bad gaffe too (saying Poland wasn't under Soviet influence)

74. I don't recall Nixon being known as the "moderate/liberal" in 1968, in fact he wasn't.

85. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockefeller_Republican

86. Nixon was not seen as the moderate/liberal candidate in 1968, and he was running against Rockefeller

92. What one is "seen as" and what one actually "was" are two totally different things.

93. Nixon was not a liberal in 1968, and Rockefeller was running against him in 1968.

103. Compared to 1968 field, Nixon wasn't liberal. Compared to today's Rethugs, he is.

64. Very good post Ken

5. There's a problem with your theory

7. Didn't Gallup predict a Hillary win in the GE?

27. And didn't she win?

40. Where will she be on inauguration day?

104. Gallup didnt poll the presidential race this cycle

111. Who said anything about polling?

6. No no no! We need more of the same! It's been working out so well!

8. she still got more people to actually vote for her

107. Sure. But considering who she was running against, it should have

110. look at what congress is made up of

112. Good points. Sadly, that means there's more racism and misogny out there

130. It was by 3 mil votes,

138. We both no, to gore's lament, that's not what we're talking about.

160. She ran against trump, who had already defeated 16 other contenders, agains the KGB, against Comey,

167. Let's not grant trump any credit where credit is not due. And to suggest the voters were

122. Yes, but by spending more time campaigning in Cali than Wisconsin, we got the Fuhrer-Elect. Not a good strategy going for the win in the popular vote.

9. Why didn't that translate into votes?

16. It translated into far more votes than anyone expected.

19. 55+% is much more. And that "superdelegate" excuse is just that, an excuse. How many of the.....

21. Almost all of them.

22. You're entitled to your opinion. But I doubt you can bolster that opinion with fact.

23. It's a fact that Bernie did far better than anyone expected.

24. I referring to your fact that "almost all" of the 30 million people who participated....

63. Yet Hillary only won what was it, 4 out of all of those yellow states in the general?

100. the write in is still pretty much wanting or ok with Trump as president

108. Yes, let's shrink the party... perhaps we can teot out another classic like

117. Your map illustrates the southern primary strategy.

118. It shows the fact that Sanders may not be as progressive as some would like to think.

119. Or perhaps more progressive.

158. The fundamental problem is that by and large

33. Exactly, George.. why didn't the "big stadiums" translate

146. They were also a LOT of alt-righters there that were NEVER voting for him in the general.