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Jean-Jacques Roussea

(475 posts)
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 07:42 PM Dec 2016

Youth vote 2008: 66% for Obama / Youth vote 2016 55% for Hillary

Save the fact that one a charismatic young black guy, and the other was your grandmother; what other factors contributed towards the 11 point discrepancy? Was it a Brexit "rage against the establishment" thing? Hillary was just too establishment for them?
We lost a lot of effective political satire television programs in the last 8 years too. Colbert and Stewart could generally produce very adept reporting and commentary and were some of the best debaters that you could find. Stewart had debated O'Reilly many times on Fox (tapping into a usually unreachable conservative viewership) and even crossed blades Roger Ailes in private debate. Their dedication to reaching bipartisan mockery was no secret either. The successors to these legacies (Sam Bee, John Oliver) tend to be more partisan and hit the right far harder, making it harder to hit the center and feeding into the propagation of the "liberal elitism" talking point. South Park was very anti-Hillary (and just fucking unfunny) this year.

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Youth vote 2008: 66% for Obama / Youth vote 2016 55% for Hillary (Original Post) Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 OP
The primary! hrmjustin Dec 2016 #1
Exactly. yallerdawg Dec 2016 #2
2008 or 2016? dogman Dec 2016 #3
2016 hrmjustin Dec 2016 #10
Odd since that is the Primary she won. dogman Dec 2016 #14
On this we disagree! hrmjustin Dec 2016 #16
wonder what the exit polls showed? triron Dec 2016 #4
Nor did he have too many primary candidates tearing him down at every turn uponit7771 Dec 2016 #11
3 AM hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #32
perhaps the first stat is one of the main reasons for the second JustinL Dec 2016 #5
The answer is right there in your first sentence. mtnsnake Dec 2016 #6
Looks like difference was in youth vote going to 3rd party candidates triron Dec 2016 #7
2008 anomoly ... what were the 2012 numbers? tia uponit7771 Dec 2016 #8
67% Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #9
Yes, but the AARP cover-model standard did work for Sanders. lapucelle Dec 2016 #19
Romney was literally a stock photo of "Rich White Man in His 60s" Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #22
I saw a round table discussion with a group of first graders concernig the candidates. lapucelle Dec 2016 #23
Even though their policy positions are basically the same, Clinton is... Garrett78 Dec 2016 #12
very good points. spooky3 Dec 2016 #28
Obama was everything Hillary wasn't. Kotya Dec 2016 #13
Sanders would've broke a hip, but Hillary could've really done to invoke those "identity politics" Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #17
But his margin in 2012 narrowed despite his being young, cool, etc. A YUGE factor in 2008 spooky3 Dec 2016 #26
wonder how much triron Dec 2016 #15
Well, for starters, they spent their whole lives in a bubble of anti-Clinton foam... JHB Dec 2016 #18
Excellent points triron Dec 2016 #20
Agree. spooky3 Dec 2016 #27
I think the real damage came from those in the progressive wing lapucelle Dec 2016 #21
And heard her speak against same-sex marriage and pot legalization. n/t PoliticAverse Dec 2016 #36
South Park wasn't exactly pro-tRump either pstokely Dec 2016 #24
it humanized him to a degree Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #25
Mr Garrison isn't supposed to beloved pstokely Dec 2016 #29
Do you have a link? ucrdem Dec 2016 #30
If only she endorsed marijuana legalization. n/t PoliticAverse Dec 2016 #31
+1000 Eom Arazi Dec 2016 #35
do stoners even come out and vote if weed legalization isn't on the ballot? pstokely Dec 2016 #37
The sad part is that she was a campus rock star while she was SoS. SaschaHM Dec 2016 #33
didn't hurt in 2008 pstokely Dec 2016 #38
HRC waited for about 3 days to get on board after losing the last primary... SaschaHM Dec 2016 #40
you nailed it in your first sentence. there is nothing else. nt TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #34
Samantha Bee's funny explanation... Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #39
LOL, oh dear, MUCH shade! Chitown Kev Dec 2016 #41

dogman

(6,073 posts)
14. Odd since that is the Primary she won.
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 08:11 PM
Dec 2016

She was attacked far more in the 2008 Primary, to the point of her losing it.

triron

(21,990 posts)
4. wonder what the exit polls showed?
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 07:54 PM
Dec 2016

Obama did not have Gary Johnson in the mix. Not sure what he got in youth vote.

JustinL

(722 posts)
5. perhaps the first stat is one of the main reasons for the second
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 08:00 PM
Dec 2016

Young voters like President Obama, and their earliest memory of Hillary Clinton was as his antagonist in the 2008 primary.

lapucelle

(18,230 posts)
19. Yes, but the AARP cover-model standard did work for Sanders.
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 08:37 PM
Dec 2016

I think the well was poisoned by a number of factors, but I suspect many young people heard little other than what used to be an exclusively right wing narrative: Hillary is a corrupt, purely ambitious, self-interested politician who lacks core values. No mistake was ever forgotten, and any evolution in policy positions was characterized as pandering or a flip flop.

I remember Rosaria Dawson's excoriation of Secretary Clinton at Sanders rally here in NY. "Shame on you Hillary Clinton!" I also remember Dr. Song's more generalized characterization of "Democratic corporate whores".

With messages like these coming from our side, worse stuff coming from the Russians and the right, and the FBI fabricating phony potential crimes, I'm sure that it seemed "moral" to some young people to go third party.

"The lesser of two evils is still evil." How often did we hear that talking point? Older folks had heard it already in 2000, so we weren't going to fall for it again. It's a far cry from President Obama's motto, "Do not let the perfect be the enemy of the good."

Every candidate who runs for office is flawed; all humans are flawed. For some reason Hillary was expected to be perfect.

 
22. Romney was literally a stock photo of "Rich White Man in His 60s"
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 08:49 PM
Dec 2016

Bernie Sanders was a funny old crumudgin who looked and talked like Larry David.
?itok=YMGgIZSK

lapucelle

(18,230 posts)
23. I saw a round table discussion with a group of first graders concernig the candidates.
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 08:53 PM
Dec 2016

One of the kids said Sanders looks like a muppet.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
12. Even though their policy positions are basically the same, Clinton is...
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 08:11 PM
Dec 2016

...more easily associated with "evil," as in "the lesser evil is still evil." Simply because she's been around for so long and her husband's administration produced some anger-inducing legislation.

And I think the 25+ years of vicious right wing slander leached into the consciousness of some who would have otherwise voted for Clinton.

I personally know of millennials who simply don't grasp how much worse off we'll be with Trump. As I wrote in an essay about a week after the election:

Regarding the notion that there’s no real difference between the two major parties, consider the following:

1) a Clinton Administration wouldn't foment hatred or attempt to roll back progress made in the area of civil rights (Mike Pence is virulently opposed to LGBTQ rights)

2) a Clinton Admin wouldn't nominate horrifyingly right wing justices, who could spell disaster for women's rights, for the Supreme Court

3) a Clinton Admin wouldn't try to privatize Social Security, Medicare, public infrastructure and so on

4) a Clinton Admin wouldn’t attempt to do away with the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act

5) a Clinton Admin would push for alternative energy investment, maintain the US's position in the Paris Climate Treaty and wouldn’t consider scientific consensus (on climate change, on vaccinations, on evolution) to be a “hoax”

6) a Clinton Admin wouldn’t scrap the Iran nuclear deal

7) a Clinton Admin would have worked to improve upon the Affordable Care Act, which has insured millions who would not otherwise be insured at all (a public option would go a long way toward addressing rising costs)

8) a Clinton Admin would have attempted to lower the cost of college tuition

9) a Clinton Admin would advocate for sensible gun control policy (and against NRA obfuscation that falsely convinces people gun control advocates want to ban all guns)

10) a Clinton Admin would raise taxes on those making obscene amounts of money, often while producing nothing of value

11) a Clinton Admin would have used the bully pulpit to push for paid family leave, affordable child care and equal pay for women

12) a Clinton Admin likely would keep with President Obama’s policy of offering clemency to nonviolent drug offenders (the Obama Admin has offered clemency to more such individuals than the previous 11 administrations combined)

And I wrote all of that prior to knowing who Trump would be nominating for various departments. Those nominations (for AG, EPA, State, Education, Energy, etc.) are truly frightening.

 

Kotya

(235 posts)
13. Obama was everything Hillary wasn't.
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 08:11 PM
Dec 2016

Young, cool, urban, hip, ethnic, inspiring. In 2008, he was a rock star.

 
17. Sanders would've broke a hip, but Hillary could've really done to invoke those "identity politics"
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 08:16 PM
Dec 2016

and fire off some of her pre-2000s feminism. When she talked about abortion in the 3rd debate it was the most I'd ever liked her.

spooky3

(34,425 posts)
26. But his margin in 2012 narrowed despite his being young, cool, etc. A YUGE factor in 2008
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 11:20 PM
Dec 2016

that differed from 2016 was that the economy was in horrible shape and getting worse.

A second factor was that Obama was in the opposition party to that of the White House. In 2016, Clinton was running as a member of the same party as a two term incumbent. According to Lichtman (the political scientist whose model predicted a Trump win this year), history shows that that factor historically predicts election outcomes (independent of other factors).

"Inspiring" is a very subjective factor and Clinton was certainly "inspiring" in many ways to women and other groups.

JHB

(37,158 posts)
18. Well, for starters, they spent their whole lives in a bubble of anti-Clinton foam...
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 08:35 PM
Dec 2016

The "youth vote" of today was born in the 1990s. Except for the oldest among them, the Right has been foaming against the Clintons for literally their entire lives... and for that eldest cohort, all of their lives that they can actually remember.

Part of the background noise of their existence has been the Right Wing raging against Bill and Hillary as the Avatars of Everyting They Hate (tm).

Even If they don't agree, this saturating background radiation has its effect.

lapucelle

(18,230 posts)
21. I think the real damage came from those in the progressive wing
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 08:47 PM
Dec 2016

who echoed the anti-Clinton foam. The background noise morphed into an actual message from a toxic faction on the left and the odious Jill Stein.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
30. Do you have a link?
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 11:38 PM
Dec 2016

A lot depends on who's counting what when and how. Clinton won in California by 4.3 million votes. That's from the Secretary of State. You don't win by that kind of margin by being uninspiring. She also beat Sanders handily here, too. And if you want my frank opinion what Sanders had going for him was that he made it okay to despise certain prominent Democrats, or in other words authorized non-PC conversation, and there's nothing particularly praiseworthy about that.

SaschaHM

(2,897 posts)
33. The sad part is that she was a campus rock star while she was SoS.
Thu Dec 15, 2016, 12:07 AM
Dec 2016

My school went nuts when she came to speak at our graduation. Primaries can hurt when they aren't settled quickly and peacefully. I really hope the incoming DNC chair takes care of that. We shouldn't have to wait months to find out whether the candidate who lost is going to come back into the fold and attempt to bring his/her supporters as well.

pstokely

(10,524 posts)
38. didn't hurt in 2008
Thu Dec 15, 2016, 03:15 AM
Dec 2016

a short and quick primary season might have HRC even more complacent during the general election

SaschaHM

(2,897 posts)
40. HRC waited for about 3 days to get on board after losing the last primary...
Thu Dec 15, 2016, 03:32 AM
Dec 2016

Bernie had to publicly be given concessions for a month before he came on board and stopped threatening a floor fight that he damn well knew that he would lose. Even then, we had to deal with booing from delegates that his campaign chose at the mere mention of HRC's name and demonstrations every time a camera popped up during the entire convention. 2008 was nothing like 2016.

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