HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Retired » Retired Forums » 2016 Postmortem (Forum) » Please stop saying Trump ...

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:02 PM

Please stop saying Trump turnout is because of jobs or economy.

The rewriting of history is taking place already about this election.

Donald Trump was elected by bigots and racists who saw a chance to express their bigotry and racism and fears and as a way to say no to the Obama legacy or any woman who would dare want to be president especially a liberal woman who at one point in time refused to bake cookies for them.

Just sit back and watch the frontal assault of all minorities and especially women.

Jobs? Most white people who voted for the guy have jobs (thanks in large part to the great President Obama). And just enough money to be willing to think a tax cut is more important than saving the environment.

So no, it had nothing to do with jobs, being left behind or any of those clever right-wing phrases.





74 replies, 7724 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 74 replies Author Time Post
Reply Please stop saying Trump turnout is because of jobs or economy. (Original post)
Eliot Rosewater Dec 2016 OP
duffyduff Dec 2016 #1
thejoker123 Dec 2016 #23
Kilgore Dec 2016 #2
Eliot Rosewater Dec 2016 #3
yeoman6987 Dec 2016 #41
uponit7771 Dec 2016 #45
duffyduff Dec 2016 #7
Eliot Rosewater Dec 2016 #9
oberliner Dec 2016 #14
former9thward Dec 2016 #37
uponit7771 Dec 2016 #46
unblock Dec 2016 #8
rzemanfl Dec 2016 #52
unblock Dec 2016 #62
still_one Dec 2016 #17
bettyellen Dec 2016 #25
JHan Dec 2016 #35
uponit7771 Dec 2016 #47
thejoker123 Dec 2016 #24
certainot Dec 2016 #32
J_William_Ryan Dec 2016 #39
uponit7771 Dec 2016 #44
emulatorloo Dec 2016 #69
Kashkakat v.2.0 Dec 2016 #4
mtnsnake Dec 2016 #5
LisaM Dec 2016 #11
bettyellen Dec 2016 #27
oberliner Dec 2016 #40
BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #6
Eliot Rosewater Dec 2016 #13
BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #16
47of74 Dec 2016 #31
uponit7771 Dec 2016 #48
dionysus Dec 2016 #43
still_one Dec 2016 #18
uponit7771 Dec 2016 #49
doc03 Dec 2016 #10
uponit7771 Dec 2016 #50
CousinIT Dec 2016 #12
Eliot Rosewater Dec 2016 #15
kcr Dec 2016 #19
AlexSFCA Dec 2016 #20
47of74 Dec 2016 #34
Fiendish Thingy Dec 2016 #21
True Dough Dec 2016 #29
progressoid Dec 2016 #33
uponit7771 Dec 2016 #51
Fiendish Thingy Dec 2016 #64
TaterBake Dec 2016 #22
oasis Dec 2016 #26
Rex Dec 2016 #28
elmac Dec 2016 #30
mahatmakanejeeves Dec 2016 #36
KPN Dec 2016 #38
uponit7771 Dec 2016 #53
TexasMommaWithAHat Dec 2016 #60
KPN Dec 2016 #70
JCanete Dec 2016 #42
TexasMommaWithAHat Dec 2016 #54
randr Dec 2016 #55
47of74 Dec 2016 #63
Name removed Dec 2016 #56
crazycatlady Dec 2016 #58
treestar Dec 2016 #57
Lotusflower70 Dec 2016 #59
heaven05 Dec 2016 #61
aikoaiko Dec 2016 #65
Eliot Rosewater Dec 2016 #71
aikoaiko Dec 2016 #72
MFM008 Dec 2016 #66
LanternWaste Dec 2016 #67
Orsino Dec 2016 #68
BainsBane Dec 2016 #73
Cha Dec 2016 #74

Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:07 PM

1. The Michael Moore meme has been debunked.

 

It was always Clinton-hating nonsense to obscure the fact bigotry was the reason the Trump voters voted him in, with the USSC a minor reason.

Sexism, of course is the 800-ton elephant in the room, but many on the so-called left refuse to see it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to duffyduff (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 02:41 PM

23. Trump was, quite simply

 

A giant middle finger to the first black president and to liberals as a whole. The message was, hey blacks and Mexicans and Muslims and gays and women, go fuck yourselves, we own this shit, better get used to it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:08 PM

2. Not true in my county

It primarily was about jobs.
Mill closures due to the production going off shore was the driver. When 300 folks get the pinkslip and Trump speaks directly to the issue, it gets the votes. Hillary not so much.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kilgore (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:11 PM

3. It is accurate there is a small number of people who are

so dumb they actually believe something that idiot said, but that isnt who almost elected him.

I say almost because he didnt win, she did.

But W didnt win either and he was installed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 03:48 PM

41. Yeah 200 counties full who voted for obama twice and now trump

 

I just don't think it's all bigotry or they never would have voted for president obama in the first place. It may not be jobs but it was some reason.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #41)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 09:58 AM

45. Obama didn't run against an overt and openly racist person either, this leaves out that small fact

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kilgore (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:27 PM

7. Let's get real.

 

It was terrorism and immigration, with a big chunk of misogyny thrown in, is why these people voted for Trump.

In other words, bigotry. Not buying the jobs explanation at all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to duffyduff (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:31 PM

9. I meant to be inclusive of those as well. Thanks for pointing them out.

So now instead of helping the dying women and children in Syria they will die, horrible and ugly deaths.

This is their legacy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:44 PM

14. Why action are you suggesting in Syria?

 

Do you agree with the approach Obama has taken to that situation?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 03:10 PM

37. Obama is still president.

They have been dying for many years now. I do not think any president could do anything about Syria.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to duffyduff (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 09:59 AM

46. THANK YOU ! That's what the ........ FACTS.......... show, but fuck facts on DU peoples "opinions"

... matter more

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kilgore (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:31 PM

8. no, it wasn't about jobs. we've got near-full employment. at most, it was about lies about jobs.

at this point all we're seeing in terms of job loss is fairly normal rotation in a near-full employment economy.

if the unemployment rate were near 10%, sure. but with the unemployment rate below 5%, particularly having come down from around 10% in 8 years of uninterrupted growth, it's ridiculous to believe that people voted against democrats because of our economic performance.

the truth is, if a republican had obama's track record, he'd already have been sainted. nearly tripling the stock market, ffs.

to the extent people voted for trump based on jobs, it was because they were lied into believing that the job situation was far worse than it actually is.

yes, there are mills closing, and jobs lost to automation and to overseas competition. and there are new jobs created in different places and different industries. that's what happens in normal, good times, and again, had obama been a republican, no one would have thought twice about it.


finally, i'll just throw this in as well: lies about jobs are a whole lot easier for trump voters to believe when they're bigots to begin with.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unblock (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:09 AM

52. Trump voters believe unemployment increased under Obama.

They live in an alternative universe.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rzemanfl (Reply #52)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:45 AM

62. In a nutshell

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kilgore (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:51 PM

17. and in your part of the country what is the make up of the Senators and Representatives, the

Governor, and other political bodies?

Were they establishment, republican incumbents?

I ask, because in every swing state the Democrats running for Senate against the establishment republican incumbent lost.

In Wisconsin, Russ Feingold lost by a greater percentage than Hillary, and Wisconsin was given multiple opportunities to throw Scott Walker out, but they didn't, and those republicans made no qualms about their views on anti-union and right to work laws.

If it was really about jobs, why did the establishment republican incumbents in the swing states win?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to still_one (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 02:43 PM

25. And the anti-TPP fight for the 99% ers lost big time. Was not the TPP either.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bettyellen (Reply #25)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 02:59 PM

35. Many Americans don't know what is in the TPP..

what the TPP is.. or the countries in the deal.

They just know the people they like hate the TPP so they should hate the TPP as well.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to still_one (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:00 AM

47. +1, nah... couldn't be because Comey etc... nah, Russia didn't have SHIT to do with it /sarcasm

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kilgore (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 02:42 PM

24. So they voted for a billionaire insider and the

 

Party that is openly hostile to workers and the social safety net?

I applaud you trying to put lipstick on these pigs and think the best, but you're kidding yourself.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kilgore (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 02:57 PM

32. they voted for a billionaire trust funder who cheats his employees and

wants to lower taxes on the 1% because of jobs? i think not.

they voted for him because the left and dems continue to let a few hundred ignorant blowhards on 1200 radio stations kick their ass, trash their ideals and reps and candidates all day the last 30 years and he channeled that alternate reality better than anyone else.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kilgore (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 03:20 PM

39. Which is idiocy

on the part of Trump voters as there’s nothing Trump as president could do to stop such closures.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kilgore (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 09:57 AM

44. That's why the OP used the word "most"... we all need to pay attention to what is said

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kilgore (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 01:06 PM

69. Fact: Hillary won w voters concerned about economy. Trump won w voters on immigration,

Hillary won with voters making under 50k, and won even more with voters making under 30k

Trump won voters making 50K and up.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/politics/election-exit-polls.html?_r=0

We're not going to learn anything about how to move forward if we work from false premises



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The Dangerous Myth That Hillary Clinton Ignored the Working Class"

Mark Murray ‏@mmurraypolitics 21m21 minutes ago
Via @DKThomp, impt corrective to idea that Hillary Clinton didn't talk about the working class or how to help them https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/12/hillary-clinton-working-class/509477/

In the days after her shocking loss, Democrats complained that Clinton had no jobs agenda. A widely shared essay in The Nation blamed Clinton's "neoliberalism" for abandoning the voters who swung the election. “I come from the white working class,” Bernie Sanders said on CBS This Morning, “and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to where I came from.”

But here is the troubling reality for civically minded liberals looking to justify their preferred strategies: Hillary Clinton talked about the working class, middle class jobs, and the dignity of work constantly. And she still lost.

She detailed plans to help coal miners and steel workers. She had decades of ideas to help parents, particularly working moms, and their children. She had plans to help young men who were getting out of prison and old men who were getting into new careers. She talked about the dignity of manufacturing jobs, the promise of clean-energy jobs, and the Obama administration’s record of creating private-sector jobs for a record-breaking number of consecutive months. She said the word “job” more in the Democratic National Convention speech than Trump did in the RNC acceptance speech; she mentioned the word “jobs” more during the first presidential debate than Trump did. She offered the most comprehensively progressive economic platform of any presidential candidate in history—one specifically tailored to an economy powered by an educated workforce.

...After the election, some people called for an end to “identity politics” that promotes niche cultural issues over economic policy. But any reasonable working-class platform requires the advancement of policies that may disproportionately help non-whites. For example, hundreds of thousands of black men stay out of the labor force after being released from prison sentences for non-violent crimes. For them and their families, criminal justice reform is essential economic reform, even if poor whites see it as a distraction from that “real” issues that bedevil the working class, like trade policy.

The long-term future of the U.S. involves rising diversity, rising inequality, and rising redistribution. The combination of these forces makes for an unstable and unpredictable system. Income stagnation and inequality encourage policies to redistribute wealth from a rich few to the anxious multitudes. But when that multitude includes minorities who are seen as benefiting disproportionately from those redistribution policies, the white majority can turn resentful. (This may be one reason why the most successful social democracies, as in Scandinavia, were initially almost all white.) Nobody has really figured out how to be an effective messenger for pluralist social democracy, except, perhaps, for one of the few American adults who is legally barred from running for the U.S. presidency in the future...

read more: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/12/hillary-clinton-working-class/509477/


-----------------------------

The most common words in Hillary Clinton’s speeches, in one chart
They weren’t about “identity politics.”
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/12/16/13972394/most-common-words-hillary-clinton-speech

<snip>

I gathered all her campaign speeches (from both the primary and general campaigns) into one document and did a simple word-frequency analysis.

The results are below. As you can see, I’ve been as generous as possible in filing things under “identity politics.” Anything about minorities or criminal justice or gay people or immigrants, I filed as identity politics. I even included mentions of climate and clean energy in that category, though in a sane world those would be top-tier economic issues.

So, without further ado, what did Hillary Clinton talk about?

<CHART>

Yeah. She talked about jobs, workers, and the economy — more than anything else. They were the central focus of her public speeches.

You can critique how she talked about jobs, workers, and the economy. Maybe she should have used different words, or framed things differently. Maybe, despite running on an agenda of worker-friendly policies, she should have chosen a clearer, simpler economic theme and hit it more often.

You can critique where she talked about jobs, workers, and the economy. Clearly, in retrospect, she should have spent more time and resources in those upper Midwestern swing states.

But you cannot say she didn’t talk about jobs, workers, and the economy. She talked about them all the time, more than anything else.

It’s just not what voters heard. Here’s what they heard in the two-month period of July 17 to September 18, according to Gallup polling:

<CHART, GALLUP polling 2 questions: "What have you heard or read about Donald Trump?" "What have you heard or read about Hillary Clinton?">

Virtually everything the media said about Clinton was about corruption, one way or another. None of it was about policy. None of it was about her actual priorities, as reflected in her speeches and her agenda.

You can critique the Clinton campaign in all sorts of ways, but excess rhetorical attention to identity politics simply isn’t one of them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:13 PM

4. Exactly. the far loony racist whites came out to vote while more moderate R's stayed home -tired of

hearing Dems need to be reaching out to these people and acting more like teaparty R's.

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How bout acting more like DEMS of the 1930s(labor movement) -1960s (civil rights).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:19 PM

5. Your 4th paragraph nails it for many of them

The Trump supporters I've had the displeasure of running into in my area have decent jobs. The reason they voted for Trump is exactly what you stated in your 4th paragraph: They voted for Trump because they believe they'll gain a few bucks in their wallets, come tax time. These people don't give a hoot about the environment or about anyone who is poor. They have zero empathy, period, and all they care about is money.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mtnsnake (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:37 PM

11. I know a few Trump supporters.

They all have jobs and several are very well off. The only one who isn't works at a pharmacy and if the ACA is repealed it could affect her negatively. The one thing they have in common is that they are military. I don't understand Republican voters who vote for people who supported the Vietnam war but dodged going, which they have now done four times since 2000 (the exception being McCain).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mtnsnake (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 02:47 PM

27. This! They didn't compare the tax plans and assumed Dems would raise theirs and give the $ to brown

 

People- the immigrants. I think most of them fear that more than any violence or terrorism when it comes to immigration issues.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mtnsnake (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 03:38 PM

40. Most voters support lower taxes for themselves

 

That goes for both parties and independents.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:24 PM

6. There was a lot of that

There also were a lot of people who didn't vote for our candidate because their primary motive was change/shake things up. Not saying they thought it through, just that labeling the anti-Clinton vote as 100% deplorable doesn't tell a big part of the story. There was a change for change sake vote out there and Trump got it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:41 PM

13. To make that vote you had to ignore that he is a racist, sexual assaulter, liar and

thief and conman and and and and and.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:47 PM

16. And they did

It's also true a lot of white guys don't see those issues as affecting them that much. You can call them intellectually lazy or empathy-deficient, but placing racism and/or misogyny as the primary motivation for their vote misses a basic aspect of this election IMO.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 02:56 PM

31. And a former member of my church was defending Trump's words as "locker room talk"

 

I was so disgusted after the election that I told the rector I was thinking of taking a break from church if he was still going to be around. If I had children I don't know that I would've felt comfortable having a man who looked at Agent Orange's rapey horseshit as "locker room talk" around at church. He left anyways after the election.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 47of74 (Reply #31)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:03 AM

48. +1, they continue to rationalize their dick-ishness in their vote for Twitler

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 09:49 AM

43. Or just gullible. When confronted by things like this, a lot of cons

Will say "oh, the liberal media says that, they all lie so they're just lying about trump"

Then there ARE of course, the racists who are all like "yes, he hates the ____ , just like me!"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:52 PM

18. Except why in the swing states did every Democrat running for Senate lose against the establishment

republican incumbent?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to still_one (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:03 AM

49. ... ahem "... were going to ignore this little factoid and beat on Hillary .... " ahem.. cough

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:34 PM

10. If it was about jobs and the economy how the hell did Obama get re-elected

in those same states? Trump played to their bigotry and made it acceptable to be a bigot. Trump is a pathological
liar and tells them what they want to hear just like Fox News. If you get into a discussion about politics the right wing has
them programed to block out anything from the MSN except what they hear on Fox or read on internet sites.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to doc03 (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:05 AM

50. +1, Obama wasn't running against an overt bigot

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:40 PM

12. True. It was racist and sexist backlash against first black President and potentially

the first woman President. The MRAs and racists were hellbent against it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CousinIT (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:46 PM

15. And Hillary was gonna let women and children from war torn middle east come to our country

after vetting, Trump is going to leave them there to die horrible deaths.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:58 PM

19. Can't rec this enough

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 02:16 PM

20. racism was an essential part of his victory

trump could not have won without racists support, that's why association with alt right was a key campaign operation.

However, I do not beleive he would have won on that message alone. In many rural counties, unemployment is very high while Clinton was saying we have the lowest unemployment. I would say trump succesfully stole some of Bernie's ideas.

Racists use trump's economic message as disguise and they may not even be aware of that.

Anyway, I am not where this thread is going, but we always knew we had a racism problem in this country and in this election the bigots just came out of the closet.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 02:59 PM

34. I think 95% of the opposition to President Obama was racial.

 

And I have a big fornicate you all ready to go for any Republicans not liking that.

For example you could see it in Mitch McFuckstick's voice and body langugage that he thought President Obama was inferior to him and that he and his fellow white southern conservative men are superior to everyone else in every way by divine right.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 02:21 PM

21. You're over simplifying

Certainly, bigotry and racism played a role, and are a strong component of Trump's voting base, but the hatred for HRC was perhaps as strong a factor, perhaps stronger. That hatred worked both ways, firing up Trump voters, and dis enchanting some progressives, who simply stayed home.

Jobs were still a factor; despite low unemployment, a lot of folks are underemployed, or afraid of losing their jobs (see Pennsylvania coal miners). There were enough low-information Hillary haters in the rust belt who believed Trump would bring better paying manufacturing jobs back to put him over the top.

To ignore income inequality and focus on racism will doom the Democrats to more years of losing elections.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 02:54 PM

29. You are absolutely right!

We shouldn't be generalizing and lumping in all Drumpf voters as bigots. It's not that "black and white." There are plenty of xenophobes among their ranks, of course, but also people who have either lost jobs or seen their net worth erode and are willing to believe in empty promises from the orange messiah. And there are those who despised Hillary, for whatever reason (some misogynists, some resentful of her ties to corporate America, some believing she is "above the law".

Back to employent, although Drumpf tries to make it sound like he can restructure trade deals to bring jobs back to the Rust Belt, the bigger problem, IMO, is automation. No president is going to turn the clock back on advancing technology.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 02:58 PM

33. This

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:07 AM

51. "a lot of folks are underemployed" this is false on its face the LFPR has been rising for a year and

.... the U6 rate has been falling.

The "low wage recovery" myth ended in 2011

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-low-wage-recovery-is-a-myth/2015/05/20/029f92d2-fe69-11e4-805c-c3f407e5a9e9_story.html

It sounds like democrats needed to be convinced of the economic facts first

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to uponit7771 (Reply #51)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 11:51 AM

64. Tell that to the middle aged professionals, assembly line and tech workers

Who lost their good paying jobs and can only find work at Home Depot or Walmart- they're still out there, and a lot of them voted Trump in the false hope that he would bring their good paying jobs back.

Minimal wage increases for the majority of the middle class, most wealth went to the 1%; until the Democratic Party addresses this clearly and unwaveringly, they will continue to lose elections.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 02:22 PM

22. Bingo

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 02:46 PM

26. Deplorables jumped at the opportunity to crawl out from their

deep repressed racism and misogyny.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 02:49 PM

28. And even with them crawling out from under rocks, HRC still got millions of more votes

 

and won the PV. For whatever reason Trump people came out to vote for - there were less of them then HRC voters. I guess the EC is full of racist, they should explain their rational behind their decisions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 02:54 PM

30. Republicans will lie, cheat , steal

 

commit treason, murder, what ever it takes to gain power & money. Those that vote for them are no better. They are 1/3rd of the population & enemies of the Democratic institution.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 03:03 PM

36. West Virginia's Results: Trump, 68.7%, Clinton, 26.5%

United States presidential election in West Virginia, 2016

Donald Trump easily won West Virginia with 68.7% of the vote, giving him his largest margin of victory in the country. Hillary Clinton received 26.5% of the vote. West Virginia was also one of two states where Donald Trump won every county, the other being Oklahoma. Trump's 42.2% margin of victory is the largest of any presidential candidate from either party in the state's history, besting Abraham Lincoln's 36.4% margin of victory in 1864.

That's because 68.7% of the voters in West Virginia are bigots and racists.

Right.

Keep writing voters off; that's a certain path to victory.

Trump can't do anything that will get those jobs back. All that was necessary for him to do was to persuade voters to think he could.

Analysis

As expected, Republican nominee Donald Trump won West Virginia in a 42-point routing (the largest of any presidential candidate in the state's history) over Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton, thanks to ardent support from coal industry workers in Appalachia. He thus captured all five electoral votes from the Mountain State. Trump had promised to bring back mining jobs in economically depressed areas of coal country, whereas his opponent had proposed investing millions into converting the region to a producer of green energy. Democrats' championing of environmentalism is viewed as a threat in coal country, and Clinton faced a towering rejection from Mountain State voters.

West Virginia was once a solidly Democratic state; it voted Democratic in every election from 1932 to 1996, except for the Republican landslides of 1956, 1972, and 1984. However, in recent years it has drifted to becoming solidly Republican, and has stayed that way since it was won by George W. Bush in 2000. Barack Obama, for example, failed to win even a single county in 2012. West Virginia is one of the two states where Hillary Clinton did not win any counties, the other being Oklahoma.

How many elections has Michael Moore won?

== == == == ==

From now on we're going to have to provide our own leadership.

Indivisible: A Practical Guide for Resisting the Trump Agenda

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 03:16 PM

38. It's a mistake to assign all Trump voters to bigotry/racism.

In fact, it strikes me as sort of bigoted/racist to do so. Ditto re: misogyny and xenophobia.

And it wasn't just about jobs, it was about a popular perception that the Democratic Party is a lot like the Republican Party in a lot of ways. This was a populist election. The people who voted Trump and who are not bigots/racists/etc., are tired of politics as usual and voted for the person who consistently harangued about the "establishment". That's as plain as day.

BTW, "jobs" is meaningless among many of those people when the jobs are insecure, low paying and/or part-time, and lack vacation, health insurance and retirement benefits. This election was about dignity and a 30+ year history of doing little to protect that except for Wall Street and the 1%.

There are a lot of us who are lifelong Democrats like me (44 years of voting for/supporting Democrats 100%) who are not going to drop this debate and just go away. Get used to it. Better yet, try opening your mind to others' (especially those who have been loyal lifelong Democrats) views. Losing the Senate, the House, what -- 2/3rds of governorships, and 900+ State legislative seats to the GOP over the past 6 years should tell any open minded Democrat that what we are doing is not effective -- and just blaming the other guy/someone else is not a solution.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KPN (Reply #38)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:10 AM

53. More RWTP, the LFPR and U6 rate are at near full employment levels and the "low wage" recovery

... bullshit went out in 2011

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-low-wage-recovery-is-a-myth/2015/05/20/029f92d2-fe69-11e4-805c-c3f407e5a9e9_story.html

I'm not going to open my mind to an investigation agency head intimating that one of the candidates could be "looked at" 11 days before the election.

Fuck that...

I'm not going to open my mind to 16 intel agencies being wrong about Russia

Fuck that

I'm not going to open my mind to voter suppression

Fuck that too

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KPN (Reply #38)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:44 AM

60. Maybe you have to come from a blue collar family

to get it.

The jobs "Americans" won't do - construction, sheetrock, painting, masonry, styling and cutting hair, giving manicures and pedicures, lawn work, janitorial work, hotel maids, housekeepers, childcare, store merchandise stockers, cashiers, waitstaff... Americans did those jobs. Need I go on?

And good-paying jobs? My husband and two of my sons-in-law are in IT. They all work mostly with immigrants on H1-B visas or work long distance with folks in India and Ukraine. I'm worried for all of them - my husband because it will be difficult to find another job at his age, and my sons-in-law because the the future looks like shit for them. My husband is a project manager who manages ONE person here, and seven guys in India, while one of my sons-in-law calls himself the "token white guy" on his team. (It's a joke because he's not white, but he is second generation American and the only person not on an H1-B visa.)

But if you bring this up, you're a "hater." Yeah... like that's going to win votes and influence people to vote for the democratic candidate!

It's jobs. Jobs. Jobs.

Sad to admit, but I was a strong Bernie supporter, and voted for Hillary, but I can honestly say that my fear of Trump far outstrips any enthusiasm I have for the democratic party these days. I am lethargic as far as politics goes these days.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #60)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 03:02 PM

70. Thank you TexasMomma

These neolibs need to be set straight. We need to be persistent .. and not let them shout us down is all.

My thoughts about Democratic Party shortfallings re: supporting middle/working class interests go back 30+ years now. The notion they are RWTP is bullshit -- and we need to keep saying so.


I am not going away. I am attending local Democratic Party meetings and will do everything I can to make sure people who don't understand the party's past and recent failures in this regard and therefore just want to continue doing more of the same get ousted from leadership roles.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 04:09 PM

42. People voted for Trump for a slew of reasons, but the fundamental one is a corrupt corporate media.

 

It isn't going to do us a whole lot of good to make the blanket assumption that YOU know why they did what they did. Did they condone or accept racist rhetoric? Yes by voting for Trump they did. Some would say that's no more true than voting for Clinton means we condone or accept her vote on the Iraq War though. That certainly wasn't an issue for these voters, but the point is, they weighed the things they care about against the negatives and voted for Trump.

Why it is they care about those issues they do, and why it is they got it so wrong as to who would even better deliver on some of those, is due to our media being a major force behind eroding our democracy for 30 years, a disinformation and de-information campaign that can take credit for not fighting against voter suppression laws, election fraud, dumbed down education, the ridiculous notion that we have a "liberal media", outsourcing, the BAD PARTS of trade deals, the Iraq War, unlimited and hidden campaign finance, the death of the fourth estate at the hands of corporate greed(and of course not) ...etc. etc.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:11 AM

54. I know IT workers

who voted for Trump in the primary as a big middle finger to "the establishment," although I don't know who they voted for in the general election. I haven't talked to them since then.

There's a lot of anger about outsourcing and H1-B visas around here, but then I know a lot of geeks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:12 AM

55. In rural Western Colorado the Trump signs did not come out until

after the "deplorable" statement. Many of these people had a bad feeling about Trump but all of a sudden the campaign was about them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to randr (Reply #55)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:53 AM

63. Here in eastern Iowa I didn't really see too many Agent Orange signs out

 

There were more signs for the local Congress Koch person than there were for Agent Orange.

Even after the deplorable statement there weren't that many. I think right up until election day the majority of the local Republicans were like, yeah we'll vote for him but we've gotta live with the rest of the community afterwards so we're not going to be real loud about our support for Agent Orange.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)


Response to Name removed (Reply #56)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:38 AM

58. Before the midterms

Let's focus on 2017. We have 2 governor's races (one's for sure a D pickup), 2 states with legislative races, special elections, along with local and county ones. Let's take those before we focus on the midterms.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:27 AM

57. It was racism and xenophobia and sexism

that brought the deplorables out to vote. Note what states they were from.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:38 AM

59. It's not an either/or situation though

It's both. There are parts of the country that feel change is needed because of jobs and the economy. And there are people that voted based on misogyny and racism.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:45 AM

61. true times 1000

 

since trumpfuhrer IS fuhrer-elect and not one thing can be done about it, (electoral college? done deal)many here and there are trying the normalization route and this even with the fuhrer elect having a white racist supremacist as his chief WH strategist, steve bannon. No one is mentioning that alec jones is one of his personal friends and has his ear. Jones is a racist conspiracy driven pig. His rally followers were violent toward PoC who were demonstrating against the new fuhrer, him encouraging them to be violent, stating he would pay court costs, the number of hate crime incidents are on a sharp rise in this country SINCE the election(see SPLC). The KKK newspaper the only endorsement he ever had and he never disavowed that endorsement, his birther stand all the way up to his election as fuhrer are all FACTS. Citizens, the always fawning media are trying to hide their good old ameriKKKan racist tendencies by couching them in some jobs, economy meme to divert and distract the easily fooled hate monger racist and those other gullible enough to buy the lies.

The world economy is fact, nothing will change that, the new fuhrer and his administration of swamp dwellers will continue to contribute to that fact and fatten their pockets to the detriment of seniors, the poor, vets and any other group they can rob, legally and illegally. Any critical thinker can see this. But a racist is driven by fear, code words, "entitlements" for the poor, of which many, many whites take advantage of, immigrants, rapists, criminals, muslims, ISIS and voted for the person spouting that fear.

You cannot change the minds of the group that wants to stay in their "everything will be okay" bubble, they were here during slavery, segregation, the lynching era, the red lining era(still going on under the guise of gentrification). They are just too fearful of PoC and all other human beings not racist white ameriKKKans. Period. Hell when the bombs start falling, they will blame Obama because ameriKKKa will never be a white society again. They can try, lots of people won't stand for it..........

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 11:56 AM

65. Are you here to Correct the Record?



It could be that the economy and jobs were bigger factors in some key states than others

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to aikoaiko (Reply #65)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 03:08 PM

71. Or it could be we have a shit load of ignorant racists and bigots

and misogynists who also always vote against their own best interest, who hated having Obama as president but now have a way to show that hate.

Because otherwise you are saying Hillary's extensive, well laid out agenda on jobs was not preferred to a man who never once gave a single example or actual plan about jobs other than "there will be a bunch of em, there will be so many new jobs you wont know what to do with em all."

Are you saying they were that ignorant?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #71)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 03:34 PM

72. No, I'm saying the HRC economic message failed to connect with enough voters in the rust belt.


And Trump's didn't.

You may wrap that up to racism and/or misogyny, but it is the same problem Gore had and why Bush the Younger won.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:11 PM

66. Those who voted for maggot

Deserve what's coming.
The rest of us dont.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:42 PM

67. His base... bigots and the "keep gov't out of my medicare" idiots.

His base is simply America's lowest common denominator... bigots and the "keep gov't out of my medicare" idiots.

Locally, anecdotes will be made to better validate a narrative ("my neighbor said..." "my friend wants"; statistically though, it was nothing more than idiots and bigots that were the catalyst for his national office of buffoonery.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:53 PM

68. It doesn't have to have been all about one thing.

Attempts to attribute Trump's votes only to racism ignore all the sexist dog-whistles. And the contempt for learning. And the hatred of the banksters. And, yes, the desperation for jobs.

Hillary told us we had a lot of hard work to do. Trump promised them that he'd do it all, and that the people holding them down would be dealt with harshly.

No, it wasn't all racism. It was every kind of stupid all at once.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 04:01 PM

73. Both are true

While Trump voters are not the poorest Americans, they feel that they have been denied what is rightfully theirs. That is very much about race and gender, but those tensions are heightened by the lack of economic growth outside urban areas.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 12:42 AM

74. Kick

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread