Hillary Clinton is immensely popular -- as long as she isn't seeking a seat at the Boy's Table

[sheshe2]

Take a look at the graph to the right. It charts Hillary Clinton’s approval rating by time period. There’s some pretty interesting discrepancies there. There’s nearly a perfect correlation over a 20 year time period between her approval ratings in office, and while seeking an office. She’s immensely popular IN office, and decidedly less popular when seeking a new office. In fact, her approval ratings in office are some of the highest in history. For anything. Quartz wrote about this earlier this year.


It’s hard to remember these days, but just a few years ago, everybody loved Hillary Rodham Clinton. When she stepped down as US secretary of state in January 2013 after four years in office, her approval rating stood at what the Wall Street Journal described as an “eye-popping” 69%. That made her not only the most popular politician in the country, but the second-most popular secretary of state since 1948.

-Sady Doyle, Quartz, February 25, 2016

qz.com/...

This is a fairly well documented phenomenon for women in politics and business. America likes them when they aren’t asking for a seat at the next Boy’s Table. But once they finally get to the table and get to work, they suddenly become popular again. Amazing.

When chatter first started about Hillary Clinton seeking our party’s nomination back in 2014, she was one of the most popular politicians in America.

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/12/20/1613112/-Hillary-Clinton-is-immensely-popular-as-long-as-she-isn-t-seeking-a-seat-at-the-Boy-s-Table

____________________________________

How dare we presume a place at the boys table. Why are those little boys so frightened of a strong woman? I suggest they seek therapy.

[vi5]

1. Except...

.... the only other times she's sought office was as NY Senator and.....you know.....she kind of won both times. So how bad could her approval have been?

And pulling in her popularity as First Lady is misleading since most of the time even regardless of how people feel about the husband/President, First Ladys usually engender a fair amount of good will.

And since she didn't have to run for Secretary of State, it's not exactly apples to apples to compare the two.

And then there's the fact that.....you know.....more people in the country voted for her to be president.

I'm not discounting sexism, but this whole angle doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. I honestly believe that as much of a factor as sexism still is, that this time around I think it was the least of the problems she faced.

[sheshe2]

2. Sorry, I cannot agree.

Sexism played a big part and that was how she was attacked from both sides.

[vi5]

3. Oh, got it...

You were just looking to bash the left. Sorry I thought this was for an actual discussion with ideas. My mistake.

Best of luck to you.

[sheshe2]

4. No.

Yet nice attack.

[vi5]

5. Hmmmm....convincing, well thought out retort.

Well played. Well played.

[sheshe2]

7. Do you have an issue with me?

You are all over my thread? Did I do something to you in another life? Please stop following me. Stop attacking me.

[niyad]

30. the OP is a highly respected poster here, but do keep trying, dear heart, we need all the laughs

we can get right now.

[sheshe2]

41. hugs

thanks

[niyad]

43. always!!

[sheshe2]

44. Women!

We have each others backs.

I posted in a thread that the 61% of women that voted for trump will never be my sister or love and care for our children's future. They do not stand for us, yet I will still do my best to protect them even though they tossed me and mine away.

I do not like or respect them, yet I will try to protect them.

[niyad]

45. agreed. I just tell them, though, that I regret the necessity of saving their ignorant asses

along with our own.

[sheshe2]

47. Righteous!

[totodeinhere]

48. I doubt if the women who voted for Trump care if you like or respect them or not. n/t

[niyad]

49. possibly not, but it never hurts to point out the consequences of actions.

[sheshe2]

50. Your point?

[totodeinhere]

64. I realize now that my comment came off as snarky. But that was not my intention.

My point was that many Trump supporters don't give a damn about anything besides having a racist and a demagogue in the White House.

BTW, I enjoy reading your comments.

[sheshe2]

67. Thanks, toto.

Peace~

[baldguy]

62. The only one equating the obvious misogyny displayed against Clinton with "the left" is you.

Funny that.

[DesertFlower]

8. not to get off the post, but i watch HGTV. there's

a show called flip or flop -- husband and wife take rundown homes in california and make them beautiful. well it seems the marriage broke up. i couldn't believe the nasty comments people made about the wife (including other women). she was too "mouthy", "thought she knew more about construction than he did", etc.

it got me thinking -- that's one of the reasons hillary lost. still a lot of misogyny in this country.

[sheshe2]

10. Ha!

She was to "mouthy." Yup that is us! We need to sit down and just shut up. NOT!

Thanks DesertFlower.

[mtnsnake]

18. I've seen that show & I doubt if the comments had anything to do with her being a woman

Both of them, the wife AND the husband, were deserving of some of the negative comments that came their way. Both of them acted like a couple of spoiled brats.

[DesertFlower]

24. i like the show. read up on them -- they really

struggled when the housing market went south. i'm happy for their success. they also had a hard time conceiving their 2nd child. they had to harvest his sperm before his cancer treatment. she had several IVF's.

http://qpolitical.com/tarek-christina-el-moussa-reveal-heartbreaking-journey-behind-great-success/

seeing the prices people have to pay in southern california makes me grateful that i live in phoenix. can't imagine paying over $700,000 for a house with laminate floors.

[niyad]

31. and yet, even on this board, the denial of misogyny is almost deafening.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

38. Didn't some people on DU who now support her call her every name in the book when she....

.... ran against Obama in the 2008 primary?

How do we classify people who called her "unfit" and "liar" and accused her of fomenting assassination of Obama in 2008 but now think she was the best nominee ever? Are they ex-sexists?

[niyad]

39. they think we all have short memories.

[sheshe2]

68. I wasn't here then.

[Gore1FL]

71. Her biggest flaw was being part of a political dynasty in the post G.W. Bush era.

Political dynasties are not popular at the moment. The same issue got Jeb Bush.

[drmeow]

54. Unfortunately

we don't really have any modern Secretaries of State who ran for President and First Ladies who ran for President to compare her to. However, if you look at Al Gore's approval ratings from Vice President to Presidential candidate, they didn't drop dramatically. Unfortunately I can't seem to find numbers for other candidates but that is where the comparison needs to be made.

[vi5]

61. Even if you make that comparison...

...you can draw any conclusion from it that you want. That doesn't mean it will be the correct or the accurate one. As we learned in early November, none of this is scientific and there are way too many moving parts.

[mcar]

6. K&R

I couldn't agree more.

Look at polls. HRC herself said when she runs for office, her numbers go down. When she's in office, they go up. Uppity women shouldn't be running for office, apparently.

[sheshe2]

9. Hey mcar.

From one uppity woman to another, we rock.

[niyad]

32. we do, indeed, she. we do indeed.

[sheshe2]

34. Ha!

Niyad...

[sheshe2]

57. Here...

[AlexSFCA]

11. praised

Nearly every senate republican voted to confirm her as secretary of state. Many republicsns publicly praised inluding trump himself.

[BlueMTexpat]

12. Misogyny played a large part in this election.

It continues to play a role here on DU too - too many protest too much.

Thanks ss2! It's always good to "see" you!

I will remain heartbroken for the foreseeable future about the choice that was made in this election. I count myself very fortunate in that I take turns residing in two of the most liberal and culturally, racially, and religiously integrated areas of the world. Thus I will not suffer the consequences as too many will.

But I still empathize with those who voted like me - for the BEST candidate - and who do not have the advantages that I do to help them through the devastation that a DT Administration will bring.

[EffieBlack]

17. Can anyone imagine a female Bernie Sanders stepping into a presidential race and insisting that she

should be the nominee?

It would just never happen. And if she tried to do it, a female Socialist from Vermont with a child out of wedlock, rumpled clothes, disheveled white hair, a not terribly distinguished record in the House and Senate, yelling about oligarchs and promising a revolution would have been laughed out of the race within minutes.

[sheshe2]

21. Holy shit.

Love you Effie!

[progressoid]

27. Female Bernie Sanders?

Elizabeth Warren.

No rumpled clothes or disheveled hair; but a divorced, ex-republican with little government experience, yelling about oligarchs and revolution.

I don't think she would be laughed out of the race within minutes.

[EffieBlack]

33. Nice try - but by taking away all of Bernie's attributes, you changed the premise of my questions

I repeat. No WOMAN with Bernie's attributes and baggage - including rumpled clothes, disheveled hair, a child out of wedlock with an undistinguished record yelling about oligarchs and revolution - would EVER have been taken seriously. Not for a second.

But a MAN with those same qualities was.

[sheshe2]

42. Don't forget that fantasy paper he wrote.

[tonedevil]

53. You will never...

let us.

[sheshe2]

56. Correct.

[progressoid]

59. Well if you're going to cherry pick attributes,

you should also add that Bernie is an old and Jewish to make your straw man argument complete. Clearly, there isn't a woman that fits that exact description to counter your supposition. The issue I have is that most of his attributes and baggage aren't really all that problematic. Gender notwithstanding.

Obviously, sexism was a factor in the election. She was held to a higher standard because she's a woman. Just as Obama was because he wasn't white. In fact, I think your argument makes more sense if you reverse it. That is, if Hillary's attributes and baggage (real or perceived), were applied to a man, they would be less of a problem.

[BlueMTexpat]

63. Just imagine! eom

[sheshe2]

20. Hi Blue. So good to see you as well.

I am in a blue state too, yet due to circumstances... I will pay a heavy price. I am now on ACA, lost my job over 8 months ago.

[BlueMTexpat]

65. So sorry to hear that!

Dems had better fight like hell for the ACA, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security!

While a very mean part of me would love to see the Trump voters suffer for what they have done, I do not want those who are most vulnerable and who worked their hearts out for Hillary and Dems to fall by the wayside. So that means that we have to fight for the leeches too. But f**k every single one of those leeches!

[sheshe2]

69. Thank you blue...

Yes, we will fight for the trumpets as well. Sigh

[niyad]

26. the denials of misogyny were, and continue to be, practically ear-splitting.

[BlueMTexpat]

66. That is absolutely true!

Hi niyad!

[niyad]

78. hi, blue, and how are you tonight?

[BlueMTexpat]

96. Well, I wasn't online

to see this last night. But I was fine then - and am fine today, thanks, niyad!

I hope that all is well with you - and continues to be!

[niyad]

98. thank you. doing okay--wishing we didn't have to go back to the streets, but. . .

[BlueMTexpat]

99. Same here, but ...

[bucolic_frolic]

13. It really hasn't changed, has it

The white wealthy male club is in charge, to exploit your labor and
steal assets for themselves

At the root, that's what this election was about.

Don't cooperate. Operate your own business, flow the profits to you.
Many start small. Just keep feet in motion. Carpool if you have to.

[SunSeeker]

14. K & R

[yallerdawg]

15. You know how it's different?

It's "Hillary did this" and "Hillary did that."

As if she wasn't running against a misogynistic sexist pig? Are they defending the pig?

[sheshe2]

22. Some are, yallerdawg.

[niyad]

35. many are, indeed defending the pig (although, personally, I think that is insulting our porcine ones

[johnp3907]

16. It's the Princess Leia Syndrome.

"Help us, Old White Guy. You’re our only hope.”

[niyad]

36. you nearly owed me a keyboard.

[johnp3907]

37. Sorry.

That one's been stewing in my brain for a while.

[niyad]

40. no need for apologies--I thought it was priceless. just glad I wasn't drinking anything.

and now that phrase is stuck in my brain!!

[Starry Messenger]

19. Spot fucking on.

[sheshe2]

23. Yup.

[niyad]

25. k and r for this excellent piece.

[niyad]

28. remember this guardian article: Why do successful women like Hillary Clinton get under so many peop

Why do successful women like Hillary Clinton get under so many people's skin?

There’s nothing the public enjoys more than a high-flying woman brought low, argues Sady Doyle, and nothing we like less than a woman who refuses to play the game


?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=fb3980dea15e9fdb45a40e70a94e01c0
‘Hillary’s extraordinary success may only be tempting the God of Trainwrecks to make her our biggest and best catastrophe yet:’ Clinton talks with members of her staff inside her campaign plane at the Westchester County airport. Photograph: Carlos Barria/Reuters


Hillary Clinton has a unique talent to make people viscerally angry. Just look at the footage from Trump rallies: supporters carry “Lyin Hillary” dolls hung from miniature nooses, cry “Lock her up” and “Hang her in the streets”, and wear Trump That Bitch T-shirts. You could chalk this up to Trump’s toxicity, but some of it also haunted the Democratic primaries, in the over-the-top depictions of Clinton as a cold-blooded murderer or criminal mastermind promulgated by the most fanatical Bernie Sanders supporters.

So why is it, exactly, that Clinton gets under our skin? We could blame it on sexism – personally, sexism is one of my favourite things to blame stuff on; I recommend it highly – and that would be correct. Still, that diagnosis is a little too blunt to really get at the problem. Women and men, left-wingers and right-wingers alike, all dissolve into spasms of rabid conspiracy theorising and ranting when Clinton’s name comes up.

I would argue that Clinton irritates people not just because of her gender, but because we simply can’t process her narrative. There are no stories that prepare us for her trajectory through life and, therefore, we react to her as if she’s a disruption in our reality, rather than a person. We love public women best when they are losers, when they’re humiliated, defeated, or (in some instances) just plain killed. Yet Clinton, despite the disapproval that rains down on her, continues to go out there and chalk up wins.

Aversion to successful or ambitious women is nothing new. It’s baked into our cultural DNA. Consider the myth of Atalanta. She was the fastest runner in her kingdom, forced men to race her for her hand, and defeated every one of them. She would have gotten away with it, too, if some man hadn’t booby-trapped the course with apples to slow her down, which is presented as a happy ending. By taking away her ability to excel, he also takes away her loneliness.

. . . .

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/nov/06/why-do-we-love-a-trainwreck

[treestar]

73. very good read!

[bettyellen]

29. We had "our own" repeating "flawed candidate"over

Over and over again (alternating with "no one likes her) mindlessly as if EVERYONE on earth is not flawed. They were played like a fiddle with the Wiki leaks bullshit and hunted her down worse than congress did.
At least congress were not useful idiots.

[sheshe2]

46. What is with those people in glass houses?

[niyad]

51. and this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028379627

[sheshe2]

52. Ha great thread....

I am locked out for saying Hill was hated.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

55. Republicans and the conservative media started the Benghazi and private email attacks...

... and I'm sure that was related to her falling poll numbers too.

Now that she's "lost" the election, Republicans are closing the Benghazi investigation.

There's some Archie Bunker sexists still out there too, of course.

[lunamagica]

58. K&R!!! Great post. Sheshe!

[sheshe2]

70. Thanks luna!

[Kentonio]

60. Is sexism still a huge issue that hinders female candidates for all elected offices? Absolutely.

Is sexism the only reason anyone could possibly not think Hillary was a good candidate for president? Absolutely not.

[niyad]

82. nobody said sexism is the only reason. but it certainly IS a reason, and one that many people

vociferously deny. ostrich land is rather crowded.

[Kentonio]

86. I absolutely agree.

But one of the issues we had here during the primary was the frequent insinuations being throw around that if you weren't with Hillary it was because you were a sexist. That isn't healthy.

[niyad]

88. but it was pretty damned evident and accurate in many cases.

[Eric J in MN]

72. The same applies to male politicians. More popular when not running.

George H. W. Bush

Early November 1992: 43% favorable, 52% unfavorable

June 2014: 62% favorable, 31% unfavorable

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1618/favorability-people-news.aspx

[Vinca]

74. I don't think gender had a thing to do with it.

[niyad]

80. BS--and a typical response of those who refuse to acknowledge sexism and misogyny. we

see countless examples daily, even amoung those calling themselves "progressives"

[Vinca]

87. I'm laughing, having been a groundbreaking first woman patrol officer on a police department.

There's "sexism and misogyny" and then there's "SEXISM AND MYSOGYNY." The latter can get you killed.

[LS_Editor]

75. She. Lost.

[niyad]

79. SHE WON THE POPULAR VOTE BY NEARLY THREE MILLION. get a clue.

[LS_Editor]

83. She. Lost.

Seriously, stop denying reality.

[niyad]

84. that is reality. look it up.

[LS_Editor]

85. And yet she lost.

Your popular vote 'win' argument doesn't change that. Time to move on and regroup.

[niyad]

91. the reality of her popular vote win is a reality. deal with it. "move on"--hmm, where do we

hear that?

[LS_Editor]

92. Go ahead. Tell me.

And we weren't playing a popular vote game, we were playing an electoral college game.

She lost. And you appear to be in serious denial about that, and are more than ready to group me in with the alt right or something.

If the Democratic Party responds like you do, 2016 will be the beginning of a long line of catastrophic elections.

Regroup, Adapt, Counterattack. But first, accept.

[Got it]

97. Like n/t

[Got it]

76. Tiresome

She lost because she was a weak candidate with too much baggage. Save the sexism charge for the real victims.

[sheshe2]

77. Then trash the tread that is to tiresome for you.

TIA

[niyad]

81. you do realize that reading any OP, or any response on this board, is a strictly voluntary activity,

yes? in other words, one is not forced to read that which one finds tiresome, or objectionable, or dull, or. . .

but in response to the usual "weak candidate" meme, you might try reading the following:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028379627

[Got it]

89. Majority

The MAJORITY of Americans have determined she was a weak candidate. THAT is why she lost.

[niyad]

90. the MAJORITY voted, to the tune of nearly THREE MILLION, FOR her. what part of that do

you ******* not understand?

and, instead of repeating reichwing memes, you might try actually reading the linked article, which your comment indicated you did not.

[Got it]

93. Voters

What seems clear to me is ...

93 million eligible voters didn't vote...
63 million voted for Trump...

That's 156 million eligible voters who did not support the democratic candidate, as compared to the 66 million who voted for Clinton.

That appears to point to a fact that the majority felt HRC was a weak candidate, including many democrats here on DU and throughout the nation.

I admit my numbers are off +/- and not exactly current, but certainly close enough to make a point.

Blaming it on sexism is a waste of energy and an insult to the real victims of sexism. Inferring I'm repeating "reichwing memes" is just flat wrong.

[niyad]

94. blah, blah, blah --gee, where are we hearing this drivel from usually?

[Got it]

95. sweet

Merry Christmas to you.

[niyad]

100. the MAJORITY of the country did NOT vote for der drumpfenfuhrer.

happy festivus.

[MadDAsHell]

101. "When chatter first started about Hillary Clinton seeking our partys nomination back in 2014"

You're arguing it ever went away after 2007/2008?

Everybody knew SoS was just the on-deck circle for another run. What at any point gave you the impression there wouldn't be a 2016 campaign?