I'll never support Hillary. Never!

[Hulk Smash]

She voted for that damnable war. Unforgiveable in my book. I'll support anyone who opposes her for the Dem non in 16. Who's with me?

[Cooley Hurd]

1. .

[alcibiades_mystery]

27. ROFL...

Indeed.

[Cha]

40. First reach for the

rofl

[Buzz Clik]

2. I'd vote for her tomorrow. Today. Next week. 2016.

[Rider3]

81. Yep!

[trueblue2007]

93. i would vote for HILLARY ALSO.

WHY BITE OFF YOUR NOSE TO SPITE FACE???

you want monsters running our country, ok then.... vote for the horrible GOP's
Geesh i just don't get it.

[BainsBane]

110. same here

She's my first choice now. I opposed her in 2008 because of the war, but I forgive her now. She'd be a first-rate president.

[andlor]

113. +1

[Kablooie]

3. "Who's that trip trap tripping over my bridge?"

[Sunlei]

4. fear not the powerfull Mrs. C-time to find a snow bunny airhead or start polishing romney again.

[DavidDvorkin]

5. I don't support her for the nomination, but if she wins the nomination

I'll support her fully in the election.

I find myself in that position very often, and I'm sure a lot of other Democrats do, too.

[awoke_in_2003]

45. Same here...

I wouldn't vote for her in the primaries- we do not need to continue political dynasties. If she won that, then I would support her in the general.

[Beacool]

72. It's not a dynasty unless Chelsea is the nominee.

[DURHAM D]

78. Actually it would need to be one of Chelsea's

not yet existing children.

[JDPriestly]

59. Same. I will only support her if she is the only somewhat

reasonable choice.

[Notafraidtoo]

62. Agreed

[liberal N proud]

6. That is why we live in a democracy

You vote for whoever you want, and I can vote for Hillary!

[El Supremo]

7. If we eliminated all the people who voted for that "damnable war" there wouldn't be many left.

But I'm on your side in spirit.

[Gman]

8. What brought this on?

[Control-Z]

36. It's an ugly job.

And it pays so little. Someone's got to do it.

Hit and run, no less.

[Beacool]

73. Good one!!!

[onehandle]

9. Unless Senator Elizabeth Warren runs, I'm on Team Hillary.

I highly doubt the Senator would challenge her.

[Cracklin Charlie]

42. Too soon for Elizabeth

I think that she will need to serve her full Senate term before considering the top prize. 2024?

[onehandle]

43. Like that Obama guy? nt

[Beacool]

74. That Obama guy had at least some legislative experience.

Warren had zip, zero, no political experience until she ran for senator and barely won in a blue state.

[TheDebbieDee]

126. Funny thing about completing a term as Senator before running for President.....

One of the reasons that Ted Kennedy, among many others, supported first-term Sen. Obama in his campaign because he didn't have enough of a voting record for the repukes to use against him.

The longer a Dem Senator is a senator, the less likely he/she will be able to win a Presidential campaign - faux news would run an endless loop of their senatorial voting record and conclude that all their votes lead to disaster!

[ChiciB1]

99. While I Really Respect Warren...

She needs more time & exposure. But if she EVER decided to run I would work my butt off for her.

Hillary did a good job as Sec. of State, but she has always been to the right of me. Of course so is Obama, but there was no choice in 2012. Also, I felt had Obama not been re-elected it would have sent a horrible message not only to the US, but to most other countries.

I think Joe Biden is really great, but I think too many think he'll be too old. Somehow, this BUSH/CLINTON, BUSH/CLINTON dynasty needs to end. I would love to see some new young blood get the nod. Who that would be I just don't know. Some talk about C. Booker, but I can't get on his bandwagon. If we have to have a moderate, I would like to see a left-leaning moderate at least.

Right now, my head's spinning thinking about what Obama might have said last night with the Repukes!

[Mass]

10. Good. I guess you did not vote for Biden either? Or Kerry in 2004?

Here is a good read which would tell you all you need to know.

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/The_Echoes_Of_Iraq
I have noticed a certain line of argument popping up on the port side of things regarding the new Secretary Of State, John Kerry, and the Secretary-designate of Defense, Chuck Hagel, as regards their unfortunate votes in favor of what (admittedly inevitably) became the Iraq War. (In Kerry's case, this line of argument popped up repeatedly in another historical context. This was called 2004.) In retrospect, the votes are indefensible. Not as indefensible as the howlingly mendacious case for war itself, or as indefensible as St. Colin Powell's farrago of what he knew was "bullshit" in front of the U.N. But it is undeniable that Hagel and Kerry should have known as much as, say, the Washington bureau of the McClatchy News Service knew.
That said, both men turned against the war itself when it became plain that the country had been lied to. Both were resolutely outspoken — in Hagel's case, against an administration of his own party — in their opposition. I mention this, not simply because Kerry was confirmed by the Senate yesterday and Hagel's nomination hits the road today, but to ask the question — how long should a vote for that misbegotten investment of Other People's Children remain the mark of Cain? Hell, the people who planned it, fashioned the lives, stovepiped the intelligence, and invested Other People's Children are still respected policy thinkers. (Shouldn't the entire Kagan family be running a Gas 'n Sip outside Needles at this point?) They still have their drum majorettes writing in major newspapers. How much more of a penalty should the people who voted for the war pay than that paid by the people who designed it?

I would ask the people who are lined up against Kerry and Hagel because they voted for the resolution that produced the Iraq war, should Fulbright's shepherding the Gulf Of Tonkin Resolution through the Senate have disqualified him in 1966 from leading the first serious congressional investigation into what in the unholy hell had resulted from it in Southeast Asia? Did Church's vote on the Gulf Of Tonkin resolution devalue the work his committee did in exposing the crimes of the CIA eleven years later? Were the only senators with sufficient credibility to challenge the war in 1972 Ernest Gruening and Wayne Morse, since George McGovern also had voted for the resolution out of which sprang the war? How long a penance is long enough?

Read more: John Kerry And Chuck Hagel Iraq War Votes - Echoes of Iraq - Esquire http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/The_Echoes_Of_Iraq#ixzz2MolKDAvB

This is not about her, but it still applies, even if I am not a great fan of Hillary. I am not saying this vote should not be part of the calculation, but this is not the only thing which matters.

[DURHAM D]

16. I think it is also important to remember that

Majority Leader Tom Daschle assured the Democratic Senators that President Bush would exhaust diplomatic avenues before thinking about taking the country to war.

[Carolina]

66. Whoop de doo

as if any Bush can be believed.

Daschle was smart but weak and for him to believe the installed thief and issue any such assurance was just stupid and foolish.

The best way to ensure the exhaustion of diplomacy was to let the inspectors finish their job and not rachet up the war talk. Bush did neither. The push (Why the rush???!!! as Sen Robt Byrd plaintively asked) for a resolution right before the 2002 midterms spoke volumes. And all reasonable people, especially Democrats, should have put the brakes on things, NOT given their aye vote approval.

Try as you might, there is no excuse for their acquiescence to the cabal. Millions of Americans saw through Bush and blast-faxed or called their Reps and Senators urging them NOT to give Dim Son free REIGN by voting for IWR. But HRC, Kerry, Biden, Edwards, etc ignored their constituents, ignored history, ignored common sense when it comes to Bushes and war.

No excuses, no logic, no forgiving that they share responsibility for the mess we are in now and for the bloodshed of innocents!

[stevenleser]

11. Paging MIRT, paging MIRT. Cleanup on aisle 5... nt

[cpwm17]

15. I'd never vote for her either

War mongers belong in prison, not the White House. Hillary has a long racist, war-mongering history – only opposing that war that Bill had to avoid.

Your attempt to shut down a difference of opinion is not appropriate.

[DURHAM D]

17. LOL

[stevenleser]

30. It is not about the difference of opinion. Nice try. nt

[Control-Z]

44. Oh, yeah. Hillary the racist.

Have you heard? She hates women too.

[cpwm17]

47. Hillary's racist against Middle Easterners

Which makes her a racist.

[Control-Z]

49. You are so off base

you don't deserve a response. Ack. is all I have in response to you. Seriously.

[cpwm17]

55. If you can't recognize her racism against Middle Easterners

you don't know what racism is.

She's long been open about her opinion that the Palestinians should remaining permanently subservient to Israel in an Apartheid state. Her gratuitous praise of the notorious Avigdor Lieberman is consistent with her position:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113424742

Here's her gratuitous "obliterate Iran" comment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv=857guwaNbRc

And anyone that can get up in front of the American people and parrot this pro-war, B/S propaganda is a bigot: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251292312#post24

[Whisp]

67. you can add the Honduras coup to that list n/t

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

151. So is Barack Obama racist as well?

Seeing as he picked her to be Secretary of State?

[Beacool]

76. "Hillary has a long racist, war-mongering history – only opposing that war that Bill had to avoid."

Speak much out of your ass?

[cpwm17]

80. No. Do you have anything intelligent to say?

http://www.thenation.com/blog/172635/good-riddance-warmonger-hillary-clinton#

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251292312#post55

Can you name some wars she opposed?

[Beacool]

85. Since what you have posted is unintelligent..........

No, I have not much to say to anyone who asserts that Hillary is racist against people from the Middle East.

That is such a load of BS that it only elicits a guffaw.

[stevenleser]

144. How's that working out for you?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=300617&sub=trans

"Thinks victims of rape deserve part if the blame"

[cpwm17]

175. What does that have to do with me?

[Carolina]

12. I am!

And truth be told I was lukewarm for Kerry-Edwards in 2004 for the same reason. And questioned Obama's selection of Biden in 2008, again for the same reason.

I have never forgotten their cowardly votes for IWR in October 2002 before the midterm elections. Their seats were safe, their constituents were opposed and they knew the Bushes were liars. Hillary certainly knew of the PNAC letter to Bill urging a war against Iraq during his presidency and Kerry was instrumental in investigating Iran-Contra (and that "out of the loop" lying POS Poppy Bush). They could have spoken out against such hasty action much as Robert Byrd and Ted Kennedy did. But with their eyes on future presidential politics, they put their fingers in the wind and now have blood on their hands, too.

So, I'm with ya, Hulk Smash, and that's why I supported Obama in 2008. But he's rewarded the very same people and worse... picked economic advisors from among those who killed Glass Steagall, and put SS & Medicare on the table! We no longer have a real D/democratic party. At least not the party of Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy or Johnson. We have go along "moderates" who try to work with those bat shit crazies that have vowed to oppose any and everything!

[DURHAM D]

14. I think you need to read this -

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Stand%20and%20Fight/13

[Carolina]

19. I am quite familiar

with her "cover my ass" statement justifying her cowardly vote. How anyone could enable the Bush cabal lies about Iraq being an imminent threat after the 1991 war and 12 awful years of sanctions and occasional bombings is beyond the pale. HRC knew the cabal was chomping at the bit for a war and by voting "aye" she provided a semblance of bipartisan agreement with the Bushies. Her justification speech was just a lot of pretty words to cover her ass in case things went south!

Then, too, in terms of presidential politics, recall her nastiness in the 2008 campaign (she even sided with McCain), her dismal campaign management (man power and money) and her refusal to surrender until even fellow Democrats (including supporters) told her it was time to step aside.

She's a poor choice for 2016 and I agree with the OP.

Spare me more shit!

[DURHAM D]

21. You didn't read it did you?

[Carolina]

22. I not only read it

I remember it.

It's still BS.

Saddam was a US puppet aided and abetted with chemical weapons by Reagan-Bush during the Iran-Iraq war. For HRC to claim in her statement that Saddam was essentially working to restore his warfare capabilities was pure garbage. The fucking country had been bombed to smithereens in 1991 and then further abused for the 12 subsequent years by the US led UN sanctions, not to mention the occasional bombings during the Clinton years. So tell me,Hill, how did the Phoenix rise from those ashes to suddenly become such an imminenty threat to a nation that spends more on armaments than the entire rest of the world.

It was BS then and it's BS now!

Spare me more crap

[DURHAM D]

23. The 2008 primaries are over.

The over-heated hyperbolic nonsense can stop.

JFTR - I do not believe that Hillary will run. In fact I hope she does not.

[Carolina]

25. Yes, and past

is PROLOGUE!

[Whisp]

41. Some think they are through with the past, but the past ain't through with them. n/t

[Whisp]

39. Iraq got a nice shit sandwich, with Bush Sr. as one bread, Clinton the meat in the Middle

and Junior as the other slice.

This was a co-ordinated effort, to start Gulf 1 on lies, have years and years of misery thrown upon the Iraq people to weaken them to defenselessness, compliments of Mr. Meat and the finishing off of the country done by Dim Son Junior Slice at the end.

Plain as day for those with eyes and minds.

But let's hear about how Hillary and Bill are so supportive of women and children and how their hearts bursts for humanity around the world.

You are right. Spare us that shit!

[cpwm17]

57. Yep, that pretty much sums it up.

[cpwm17]

24. Don't insult our intelligence

[DURHAM D]

26. Is that her racist speech?

[cpwm17]

32. It seems you've lost on the war-mongering argument

Hillary, along with many others, supported the world's worst crime this century: the Iraq War. Racism was clearly a motive.

[Carolina]

34. Thank you, cpwm17

As I said upthread to the same poster, that speech was BS to cover HRC's cowardly vote.

Hussein was a US puppet aided and abetted with chemical weapons by Reagan-Bush during the Iran-Iraq war. For HRC to claim in her statement that Saddam was essentially working to restore his warfare capabilities was pure garbage. The fucking country had been bombed to smithereens in 1991 and then further abused for the 12 subsequent years by the US led UN sanctions, not to mention the occasional bombings during the Clinton years. So what could Hussein have been doing in those "4 years since the inspectors left" that he suddenly became such an imminent threat to a nation that spends more on armaments than the entire rest of the world?

Plus, at the time, even weapons inspectors like Scott Ritter said nothing was there and that inspections should be allowed to continue before any military action.

HRC's speech was BS then and it's BS now! And it should haunt HRC and others like her for the rest of their days because that war of choice, to which such aye votes gave a semblance of bipartisan cover, has cost countless lives and much of the US treasury.

[Beacool]

77. Thank you, it's worth reminding people that things are seldom black or white.

Most important issues are in shades of gray. The OP's assertion is simplistic.

[NHDEMFORLIFE]

123. The OP reflects everything that is wrong with American politics

Fully understanding that I will be torched for saying this, but politics in America is completely dysfunctional when either side refuses to deal in anything but absolutes. Currently, Republican leaders are rightly being skewered for digging in their heels on virtually everything and refusing to negotiate in good faith for the sake of the nation as a whole.
But we can be just as stubborn - and self-defeating - when we make statements like "We will not support any candidate who supported/opposes this/or that."

There are principles that should never be abandoned, but the only way our system works is through - prepare for what some on this board consider the most wretched, defeatist word in the language -compromise.
Ted Kennedy, in my view one of the handful of truly great legislators in history, understood this quite well. He lambasted conservatives on the stump but worked with them in the corridors of the Capitol, knowing that the only way to reach an ultimate goal was one deal at a time.
He is referred to as The Liberal Lion, which describes his heart quite well. He also was a master of compromise, never sacrificing a good start on a long-term goal by demanding to get it all in one fell swoop.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 would not have been passed - at least not in 1964 - if Lyndon Johnson didn't cajole, bully and make deals. If tossing crumbs at conservatives helped LBJ extract a few Republican votes from Everett Dirksen - and it did - than I say it was well worth whatever the price, even if some of those deals were less than pristine in their purpose and execution.
LBJ was absolutely, completely wrong about Viet Nam. Near the end of his life, he admitted as much. He knew it would destroy his presidency and his legacy, and it did. But he did do some things right - civil rights, Medicare, Medicaid, Head Start, urban renewal, most everything that was part of the Great Society.
And while great Democratic majorities (including southern Democrats) rubber stamped many of the social programs, it was the art of the deal - the dirty, messy backroom deals with conservative hacks that make absolutists froth at the mouth - that got the Civil Rights Act passed.

Like Bill Clinton, Hilary grasps this quite well. I didn't agree with her on the war, and I didn't agree with Bill on a few things, but I am not about to hold anyone to a litmus test etched in granite in deciding whether to support her or him.

[Beacool]

133. Very well said.

People see things in absolutes and tend to forget the place and time when these decisions were made. Policy is not drafted in a vacuum, and any good politician knows that compromises must be made and sometimes it comes down to the path chosen being the lesser evil. Idealism is great, but reality has hit like a brick wall every idealist who has gone to Washington. The Clintons were no exception.

[sendero]

176. I agree with you in principle..

... completely, but you DO have to draw the line somewhere.

Democrats have not drawn that line at all, and now we have a party that is to the right of where conservatives were 30 years ago.

You DO have to draw the line somewhere.

I have a simple attitude about the Iraq war. I KNEW IT WAS ALL BULLSHIT so HOW COULD A VIRTUAL INSIDER NOT KNOW? The entire lead up was a joke and anyone who couldn't see that should be working in a 7-11, not pretending to run a country.

So, there is simply no way that HRC and the rest of the appeasers that voted for the war did not know the truth. So ask yourself the simple question. Why?

Why did they vote for it? There are answers, but NONE of them are very nice.

[cpwm17]

177. Well said

If participating in the world's worst crime this century (The Iraq War) doesn't disqualify someone from the White House, then what does?

Hillary was in a position of power. She actively participated in this horrible crime. She has a consistent history of supporting war. It's not an aberration.

I understand that a large percentage of DU'ers (I wasn't here then) knew that it was all bullshit at the time. Unless Hillary is less intelligent than the average DU'er, she's a liar on the biggest possible issue: aggressive war.

[Hulk Smash]

65. spot on Carolina!!

[DURHAM D]

13. Oh look...

a newbie promoting the myth that Hillary "voted for the war".

Read this journal entry and learn a little something before you leave -

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Stand%20and%20Fight/13

[rurallib]

18. So what do you do if she is running against Jebby the Bush?

[DURHAM D]

20. Perhaps write in Santorum?

[Warpy]

28. I'll vote for whatever conservative stiff the party gives us

because Democratic conservative stiffs are always better than Republican conservative stiffs if only because our conservative stiffs don't actually crash the economy. Theirs do.

[David__77]

29. I would work to oppose her ever winning the Democratic nomination.

I would vote for her in a general election if she were the Democratic candidate, but I am hopeful that I will never face such a scenario. Her campaign's right-wing attacks against Obama in 2008 show her extremely poor judgment.

[MrSlayer]

31. You won't have much of a choice.

Well, you could always not vote or vote republican.

[MaineLinePhilly]

33. I'm with Hillary 1000% if she runs

I respect the OP's opinion. The great thing about this Republic is that we can choose to vote for whoever we want based on our own ideals and values etc. But if she runs in 2016 I'm on board. I was on board in '08 before I switched to Obama.

[MannyGoldstein]

35. She only voted for the war because Ron Paul was against it.

That took guts.

She's still inevitable in my book.

Regards,

Third-Way Manny

[babylonsister]

37. Hahaha! Grow up. But you have balls. nt

[aquart]

38. I'll vote for her. You can vote for the tooth fairy.

Or Jesus or whomever you decide is perfect enough.

[FarPoint]

48. Do what you wish.

She will have my vote.

[Raine1967]

50. I love Dem Non.

Almost as good as Pad Thai.

[brooklynite]

51. ...and your alternative is...

???

(considering that Alan Grayson and Elizabeth Warren won't be running)?

[Historic NY]

52. IS she running, for something?

I haven't heard....the only opening I know is in Rome.

[BeyondGeography]

53. That is so 2007

I almost feel young again.

[RudynJack]

54. I'll never care

what you think. Never!

[still_one]

56. Gee, did she announce already?

[IAMWHOIAM12321]

58. Yes

Agreed.

[11 Bravo]

117. Brilliant first post! Pithy, with just the barest hint of troll.

[Kalidurga]

60. Meh I don't care...

I remember the confusion at the time in regards to whether we should go to war or not. I thought it was a bad idea, because I don't think Republicans have any other kind. But, I am not a Washington DC insider.

That being said I hope Hillary doesn't run. I think she has done a great job in the areas she has worked. At some point I think it is ok to retire and stay out of the public arena. But, I actually hope she goes on to I dunno be a CEO or something for a non profit, she would be a great asset to any organization.

I would also like it if we went for someone younger, not to be ageist. But, I would like to see the next nominee be young enough that going 8 years is no issue, plus the running mate having the ability to go for 16 years in the White House. Whatever it takes to keep Republicans out for the rest of my life and the lives of my children.

[Rhiannon12866]

61. I've already voted for her.

She was my senator.

[tularetom]

63. Never say never

I'm not enamored of her either, I don't like the idea of Bill Clinton being anywhere near the Oval Office, and I probably wouldn't vote for her in a Democratic primary. But should she wind up as the nominee, I can't imagine voting for any republican who might oppose her. Nor can I see any reason to waste my vote on a third party candidate.

But it's early 2013. A lot of things can change over the next three years. I flat ass refuse to make any statements about who I will and won't vote for three years from now.

[condoleeza]

64. I would only support her if she is the nominee. She caved on the war and lost my respect

and she's too old, IMO, if we're looking at a 2 term presidency. Being President ages you greatly, and she's got enough health issues already. We need a President who at least starts out healthy before politics destroys them.

[juajen]

153. She had an accident. She is very healthy.

Even Presidents don't have the travel schedule she maintained as SOS

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

68. I don't blindly support anyone. I want to wait to see what happens in the primaries.

If she's the nominee I will support her.

[cecilfirefox]

69. Just do me a favor and don't call yourself a Democrat in 2016 when

you don't vote for our candidate.

[cliffordu]

70. I couldn't care less.

Who's with me?

[Beacool]

71. Suit yourself, it's a free country.

Although, be aware that if she runs there will be millions of people who will vote for her.

[Whisp]

75. Yeh, it's a semi free country - not like the Honduras tho. n/t

[Beacool]

79. How's your CDS?

Taking anything for it?

[Whisp]

82. how are those rose coloured glasses?

Are they the Clinton Brand™, the really expensive ones?

[Beacool]

84. Better than the blinders you prefer to wear.

[Whisp]

87. I see some things quite clearly.

Even have a bit of peripheral vision regarding past and possible futures.

I got skillz.

[Beacool]

90. OK, you actually made me laugh.

You're nutty, but I guess every family has one.

[Whisp]

92. see, I knew you were going to say that.

Even tho we gnaw at each other over Hillary, I think you are a pretty good sport about it overall, Bea.

You better take a screenie of this because in our next bloodfest I will deny saying it! lol.

[Beacool]

94. Well, thank you.

Now if only you could manage to leave Hillz alone, then we would get along just fine.

[DevonRex]

120. Bea, you're bring back fond memories.

And talk about CDS, Whisp just likes to yank your tail a wee bit. So do I. And so does dionysus. Those are some of our best times on DU.

BUT, look down thread a bit to somebody who replied to me. Now THAT is CDS like I've never seen before. Just thought you might be in the mood for a real match. If so, he's all yours. And have fun!

[url=http://www.desismileys.com/][img][/img][/url]

I chose that one because it's not too violent, the girl wins, and this is the Democrats' sandbox. If Hillary is the nominee, she'd better get the support of everybody here. No matter how much we may squabble beforehand.

[Beacool]

132. Cute, I like it.

Well, I have no idea whether Hillary will run in 2016 (from what I'm hearing, she doesn't know herself). Hillary is a pragmatist. She'll probably wait until after the 2014 elections and weigh several factors: how are Obama and the Democrats fairing in popularity, whether there's a chance that voters would want to elect a Democrat to the WH for 3 terms in a row, whether the Democrats picked more seats in the House and Senate, and whether she feels mentally and physically up to the task. Only then do I think that she will make a decision about whether to run or not.

As for those who suffer from chronic CDS, they can go suck an egg. Half of the party had to suck it in when Obama won the nomination. So, if Hillary chooses to run (in which case I have no doubt that she would win the nomination this time around), then they too can take it and vote for her in the general election. Although, I for one, feel that people are free to do whatever they want and I wouldn't browbeat anyone to vote for her in the GE. It's still a free country.

[DevonRex]

134. That's OK.

I'll be in browbeating mode then. Some people need a good dose of plain old reality, like all those polls we're seeing about how well she matches up against possible Republicans. I'm a pragmatist, too. And if she's the nominee she deserves as much support from me as I gave Obama. And that includes telling at people who would siphon votes from us to some "dream" third party person that nobody ever heard of. Or Ralph fucking Nader. Sorry. That's his middle name as far as I'm concerned.

Really, the message isn't meant for those who will vote for that dream candidate. It's for those reading both sides and wondering which way to go. The dream sounds so good, until we wind up with another 2000 election and somebody like Nader takes enough votes from New Hampshire and Florida to give us another Bush, or a Christie who seems so jolly, right?

Until then, one thing is certain, we've got to concentrate on 2014. We've got to emphasize the wedge between Northern and Southern Republicans. That's especially important with the sequester issues. And we've got to give people time to decide whether they want to run in 2016 or not. It's too soon to hound them IMO. And IMO we think the presidency has way more power than it actually has in the first place, unless we give them a Congress to work with.

[thunderbolt brown420]

83. support hillary

They all made mistakes in going to war,but if we had been lied to like they were we might have voted like they did.We have to keep good democrats up in DC and she is a good one because the repukes and soggy bottom tea-baggers are scared shitless of her

[Whisp]

86. I don't think they are afraid of her.

I think she has more in common with them than most here would like to admit.

[Carolina]

88. Going to war is no small mistake!

And we were lied to!

We -- or many of the people -- knew it at the time (not in cozy hindsight) and those in high office like Bob Graham (of Florida), Kennedy, Byrd, etc knew it, too which is why they voted NAY and urged their colleagues to do likewise!

We, the people recognized the timing of IWR (just before the 2002 midterms) and the attempt to cow Dems into going along. And sure enough, those with higher political aspirations caved. For Kerry, it meant having to twist his all too often too many words into knots trying to justify a vote that defied his experience as a Vietnam veteran, defied the wishes of his MA constituents and frankly defied logic considering the status of Iraq between 1991 and 2002!

Bottom line: HRC and several others like her lacked profiles in courage, lacked the moral fiber to stand up against what was wrong. They have blood on their hands and frankly it's time for them to go!

[cpwm17]

174. I remember Bob Graham's befuddled reaction after he'd seen the alleged evidence for WMD's

At that time it was obvious that it all was a total lie, which was really already obvious to anyone that knows anything about how Washington DC works.

Hillary wasn't tricked into supporting the Iraq War. She's an active proponent of war. That makes her an enemy of mankind.

[bigwillq]

89. I will not vote for Hillary

In a primary or a GE.

I thank her for her service, but I don't want another Clinton. Plus, she had her chance and didn't win. Let someone else go for it.

[Petrushka]

91. Hillary vs. prospective Republican candidates --->

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-07/clinton-in-poll-tops-christie-who-beats-biden-cuomo-lags.html


Hoping she DOES decide to run---she'll have my vote!

[november3rd]

95. Go to ....

movetoamend.org or rootstrikers.org and get involved now in the effort to overturn citizens united and get publicly funded elections.

then worry about hillary 2016

[Lil Missy]

96. I'll alert the media n/t

[Drunken Irishman]

97. I like Biden. But if Hillary is the nominee, I'll support her.

[Jamaal510]

98. Why are people still talking about Hillary 2016?

She has already said many times that she will NOT run again.

[Whisp]

100. Hillary does not always tell the truth. n/t

[RC]

101. Relax, Hillery ain't runnin'

And if she does, she'll be an also ran. We have had enough of the 3rd Way shadowing the Republicans in their slide to the Right.

[totodeinhere]

106. Oh she's running alright. n/t

[DonCoquixote]

102. If any warm body with a pulse were to win the Democratic primary

I will campaign for warm pulse 2016. Yes, some here talk about how "both parties mean the same", but the fact is, Congress will fight the left, and fall over for the right. The W. presidency was proof positive of that, as congress gave W ( a fine example of a warm body if there ever was one). everything he wanted, whereas every congress critter that wants to feel tough fights Obama, and yes, they will do the exact same thing to Hillary, because the Billionaires will keep shoveling gold into the furnace.

So yes, if Hillary wins, I will support her, though I will be watching as she cozies up to Israel, or lets Bill run at the mouth, and promises to get that toxic pipeline across America so that the Chinese can get their oil. If there is anything Obama taught me, it is that the powers that be thoroughly vet anyone who has a chance of winning long before we even see them. We need to take the party, and the nation, back, school board by school board, small town by small town, which, to their credit, is what the GOP did. However, even though I know the Clinton years will be a sellout, a chance for the centrists to finally kill the left off, I know that i cannot let a GOP member in, because if i do, the shadow government that really controls this nation will fre free to pull out all the stops.

[WinkyDink]

103. I should live so long, to vote.

[Swede Atlanta]

104. While I respect your position on "the war"

I consider your position self-defeating.

Hillary voted for military action in Iraq for unknown reasons. That was a decade ago.

But if you face the prospect of a Republic president and Hillary, which would you prefer?

I get tired of the single-issue Republic voters on abortion or gun control. They vote on only one issue.

I fear you are subject to the same dangers. Is it better to "stand your ground" on one principle (the battle) and you lose the war?

Please consider your position is likely a losing one before you put it in action.

[totodeinhere]

105. You said that you'll support anyone who opposes her for the Dem non in 16.

But a lot of other Democrats voted for the war too. Since those Democrats would fall under the category of anyone your comment doesn't make much sense.

I disagreed with Clinton's vote but I will enthusiastically support her if she gets the nomination. However my top choice is Elizabeth Warren.

[pnwmom]

107. Apparently you'd rather reward Bush, Cheney, and the other Repubs

who were responsible for defying the terms of the Iraq war resolution Hillary voted for, that prohibited them from going to war UNLESS weapons of mass destruction were found -- which never happened.

Instead of blaming Bush and Cheney, you'd rather blame the Dems who tried to put some limits on them, knowing that the incoming Republican Congress -- if a war resolution were left up to them -- would just give the Bush administration a blank check.

Makes no sense unless you're a Bush supporter.

[TheKentuckian]

166. They hemmed him in pretty good didn't they?

That is a rationalization and a half. What the hell would be the real world difference between what happened and a blank check?

[pnwmom]

167. They took a chance that he would abide by the terms -- because they had nothing to lose

and possibly something to gain (if Bush followed the conditions.)

Bush knew he'd get the blank check IWR in January, and so did the Dems. No, they didn't succeed in tying his hands with the October resolution, but it was worth a try.

[TheKentuckian]

170. The real path to gain was to oppose and restrict and let the Republicans own it lock, stock,

and barrel instead of muddying the waters in Mayberry Machiavellian fashion that the Turd Way "leadership" always finds away with and Turd Way enablers defend even in demonstrated failure.

Being blind even in hindsight is a dangerous form of willful ignorance with a kernel of moral cowardice and/or outright collusion.

[pnwmom]

171. They couldn't help write the restrictions unless they joined in voting for it, at least

some of them.

[Agschmid]

108. Trashing thread. Sick of seeing it. N/t

[gateley]

109. If she's our candidate, she'll have my enthusiastic support.

[Rowdyboy]

111. She has my vote, support and money the minute she announces....She's a giant

who deserves to be president.

I am oh so very not with you. Doubt many people here (other than the dumbass trolls) are.

[Warren DeMontague]

112. you should go ask in meta.

Or "ask the admins". Even better.

[Enrique]

114. so easy to troll DU with Hillary

does Hulk Smash even have an opinion about Hillary? Doubtful, imo.

Think of the thousands of Hillary posts we're going to see in the next few years, pro and anti, by people who are just messing with us.

[Akoto]

115. Although I am not a Hillary voter, in her defense ...

A lot of good people voted for that 'damnable war' back then. Those were strange times, and emotions were still running hot from 9/11. People are easily misled, which I guess was the idea.

[DevonRex]

116. I will support the Democratic nominee.

As SoS, Hillary proved she can lead and do it very well. I didn't support her in 08 because of her Iraq stance. I believe she has learned a lot since then.

[cpwm17]

119. Hillary has learned nothing

She was a right-winged war-monger before 9-11 and during the Bush administration, and she was a right-winged war-monger as SOS – one of the worst in all of Washington DC.

Nobody that supports Hillary Clinton has any grounds to criticizes Dick Cheney for his war mongering.

[secondwind]

121. HILLARY SUPPORTER HERE.. WILL DONATE AND WORK TO GET HER ELECTED, IF SHE RUNS

[cpwm17]

122. OK. She supported Cheney's wars

and pushed for wars beyond that. If that is what you support, go for it. But I certainly can't respect your viewpoint.

War is the worst crime known to man. I could never support a war monger.

[DevonRex]

124. I was wondering when somebody would take this

guy on. I figured I'd leave him to those who've been in her corner all along. Good for you.

[Beacool]

135. You purists bore me.

Things are never that simple. Furthermore, the type of candidate that some of you pine for would never get elected president. Politics is the art of compromise. We don't live in a dictatorship.

[DevonRex]

145. There's the Bea we love!

Where's Dionysus? He will want to see you!

[Beacool]

146. Dionysus is my buddy.

He always gives me lovely bankies.

[DevonRex]

147. I don't know

where he gets those but they're so cute. Just for you.

[dionysus]

149. it's ok, i gave Bea her medicine :)

[DevonRex]

152. That is

the cutest one ever. she will love that one.

[dionysus]

148. ahem.. just where have YOU been young lady? out carousing i assume.

I've been waiting to give this to you but you're hardly around!

[Beacool]

155. Bankie for me?

Thank you, it's so cute!!!!







I'm around. I just get tired of reading the constant Hillary bashing on this board. If I wanted to read crap like that I would go check the Freepers' site.

[dionysus]

160. still won't admit to the carousing i see...

[Beacool]

161. Alas, no carousing.

Unfortunately, just work and more work.

[dionysus]

162. i don't know... i think carousing has occured....

[Beacool]

163. Dirty mind!!!

[dionysus]

164. i'm sure you stay at home at night making doilies Bea... yeah, that sounds like you...

[Beacool]

165. You're incorrigible.

[dionysus]

169. i'm just a cad aren't i?

[Beacool]

173. Yes, you are!!!

But I like you just the way you are.

[treestar]

179. Exactly.

And after the whole thing about how they were lied to - why is voting for Iraq so unforgivable? We know Bushco lied.

[Arkana]

118. You seem upset.

Have some warm milk with a handful of Valium in it.

[davidpdx]

125. It's too soon to start talking about 2016

I know people are uptight about the next one because obviously getting three terms in a row for the same party is pretty difficult. We also need it for SC picks so we can push as many of the Corporate Republicon justices out the door. At the same time we have to start fighting for the issues that matter and getting ready to kick the Republican's asses so we can get the House back.

[Squinch]

127. That's nice, dear.

[RedstDem]

128. Not her biggest fan here, either

but if she wins the nomination, I'll vote for her.
better "republican lite" than the real thing.

[riverbendviewgal]

129. hi troll

[JoePhilly]

130. They're so cute when they're young.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

131. Welcome to DU, and enjoy your stay. N.T.

[lillypaddle]

136. I can't find

the unrec button.

[Rowdyboy]

138. Hulk too cowardly to respond in own thread. 5 days after posting, Hulk is still no-show. Maybe Hulk

belong on other website where drive-by right-wing propaganda welcome. Whatevah.....

And, yes, I agree about "unrec". Overall Skinner is on the right track but "unrec" served a real purpose.

[libodem]

137. I love her

What are you trying to prove? The only reason I wouldn't want her in the game is that it is so filthy and scummy and she would have to get into the mud with a bunch of scuzzy pigs and waller in the ooze, with a lying, cheating, malicious, bamboozling, Repuke swine.

She is too good for that. Love and light protect her from what passes for politics these days. I wouldn't wish a presidential run on my worst enemy.

The Clinton family deserves a nice sweet, quite, private life full of cute brilliant grandchildren and million dollar speeches for any cause they care about, donating to.

That Whitewater shit left a bad taste in my mouth and I can't take the redux.

I'd vote for her in a heartbeat, though, if it came to that.

[Rowdyboy]

139. Drive-by slander like this is just what it looks like. And it should be given all the attention it

deserves.

In other words, suck each drop of nourishment from the tears of the Hillary-haters. They have nothing to offer but hate. She's the future.

[Beacool]

156. I'm with you and we are not the only ones who love her.

When she left the State Dept., I read that some staffers were commenting that she would be missed. They said that while they all respected every SOS, they loved Hillary and that they would miss her.

I have no clue whether she would want to go through so much crap all over again, but if she does, there are many of us who will fight tooth and nail to make her first the nominee and then president.

[libodem]

158. She is brilliant

And poised. I wish her the best in all of her future endeavors.

[UCmeNdc]

140. She will have my vote and support

[classof56]

141. I'm not. With you, that is.

But I encourage you to vote for whatever candidate you choose when 2016 rolls around. Meanwhile, I vote for staying focused on keeping the right to vote.

Blessings.

[Rowdyboy]

142. Hulk Smash(ed) by Skinner.....

Go bye bye now....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=300617

Account status: Posting privileges revoked
Member since: Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:21 PM
Number of posts: 51
Number of posts, last 90 days: 51
Favorite forum: General Discussion, 42 posts in the last 90 days (82% of total posts)
Favorite group: Michigan, 2 posts in the last 90 days (4% of total posts)
Last post: Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:20 PM

[Laura PourMeADrink]

143. she was listening to Bill on WMD which he thought they had. just saying

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

150. Poor guy

Wait until 1500 posts at least until you reveal yourself.

Have fun back at the cave.

[Jakes Progress]

154. Ah. Another reagan democrat joins in.

[and-justice-for-all]

157. FAIL...

Is was just one of the unfortunate ones who believed what she was informed. A lot of people fell into the trap, but I will vote for Hillary in 2016.

[FSogol]

159. I've been waiting to post this one...

From Steve Melcher's "That Is Priceless"

[Bolo Boffin]

168. I forget, how did Biden vote on the Iraq War? n/t

[RBInMaine]

172. Purity Purity Purity. Does it ever end? I would vote for her in a heartbeat.

[treestar]

178. I still would, because

1- like others, Hillary would have thought Iraq had WMD
2- her opponent would be a warmonger like the Mittwit, Gramps McWar, etc.

[olddots]

180. Hillary is brilliant and can be brutal

She can be a hawk and a dove the next second -------- beats me who do we have for 2016 ? I don't ever want to see that shit with "Reagan Democrats " happen again and I don't know how Hillary stands on social issues .