2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumMicheal Pap: Obama has to get rid of Eric Holder
Yeh Mike no surprise you have a hard on for Eric Holder
Bluzmann57
(12,336 posts)Do you mean Michael Papantonio and why is it no surprise that he has a hard on for Holder? Just asking.
bigdarryl
(13,190 posts)Every time he subs for Big Ed he's talking shit about Holder.As they say blame it on the black man even some liberals are just as bad as rethugs
NOVA_Dem
(620 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)so tired of seeing the race card drawn when legit criticism is leveled. it's all you fucking have. I wouldn't give two shits if holder were white, yellow, brown, or fucking green. he's a fucking disaster.
choie
(4,111 posts)is because he's a black man? Give me a break - he should NEVER have been chosen for the head of DOJ to begin with - he has been a miserable failure. Period.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)'you're racist!!11!1!'
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)in this administration. It's so transparent. Again, Pap can kiss my ashy knee caps!
Parable Arable
(126 posts)That being said, the president is a pragmatist.. If defending Holder becomes too daunting an endeavor, I'm guessing that Obama will allow him to take the fall.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)the NRA hates him, I can understand why, because he hates death and the WMD the NRA sells.
Parable Arable
(126 posts)If a better replacement to him exists... then I'm all for him leaving office...
If not, and if this scandal isn't as big as the media makes it out to be, then he should stay. Regardless of how I feel about the job he does, a resignation over anything but a minor scandal would give the GOP house more ammo to obstruct.
And the NRA hates everything. Nonviolence, education, civil discussion, moral relativity, the English language, and especially the people on this site >_>
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)Parable Arable
(126 posts)I understand, jailing those responsible for the financial crisis is a really sticky endeavor. But to flat out claim that they are "too big" to jail was idiotic... It's basically an admission to the public that "the administration is powerless/unwilling to go after these people", which really casts it in a bad light....
And I can't say I agree with anybody 100% of the time, and part of me is thankful for that.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)think
(11,641 posts)Holder legally represented Chiquita brands while he was part of the Clinton administration and helped them get off of these serious charges with just a fine:
~Snip~
Indeed, Holder himself, using his influence as former deputy attorney general under the Clinton Administration, helped to negotiate Chiquita's sweetheart deal with the Justice Department in the criminal case against Chiquita. Under this deal, no Chiquita official received any jail time. Indeed, the identity of the key officials involved in the assistance to the paramilitaries were kept under seal and confidential. In the end, Chiquita was fined a mere $25 million which it has been allowed to pay over a 5-year period. This is incredible given the havoc wreaked by Chiquita's aid to these Colombian death squads."
It seems Mr. Holder was representing a company that surreptitiously aided in the murder of union organizers in South America. His appointment should have sent a clear signal to U.S. labor unions. Instead it seems everyone was swept up in the "thrill of victory".
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-kovalik/lawyer-for-chiquita-in-co_b_141919.html
Full post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022768630
Please note ties of Chiquita to ex head of CIA Allen Dulles and close friends of another ex head of CIA, George Herbert Walker Bush . Chiquita has been a bad banana for over a century.
Here's the reputation of Chiquita according to Wikipedia:
The United Fruit Company was frequently accused of bribing government officials in exchange for preferential treatment, exploiting its workers, paying little by way of taxes to the governments of the countries in which it operated, and working ruthlessly to consolidate monopolies. Latin American journalists sometimes referred to the company as el pulpo ("the octopus" , and leftist parties in Central and South America encouraged the company's workers to strike. Criticism of the United Fruit Company became a staple of the discourse of the communist parties in several Latin American countries, where its activities were often interpreted as illustrating Vladimir Lenin's theory of capitalist imperialism. Major left-wing writers in Latin America, such as Carlos Luis Fallas of Costa Rica, Ramón Amaya Amador of Honduras, Miguel Ángel Asturias and Augusto Monterroso of Guatemala, Gabriel García Márquez of Colombia, and Pablo Neruda of Chile, denounced the company in their literature.
The business practices of United Fruit were also frequently criticized by journalists, politicians, and artists in the United States. Little Steven released a song called "Bitter Fruit" in 1987 in which lyrics referred to a hard life for a company "far away" and whose accompanying video, depicted orange groves worked by peasants overseen by wealthy managers. Although the lyrics and scenery are generic, United Fruit (or its successor Chiquita) was reputed to be the target.[5] In 1950, Gore Vidal published a novel "Dark Green, Bright Red", in which a thinly fictionalized version of United Fruit supports a military coup in a thinly fictionalized Guatemala....
~Snip~
Full post:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Fruit_Company#Reputation
More on bananas:
Democracy Now Tuesday, July 7, 1998
Last week, in one of the largest and most unusual settlements by a news organization, The Cincinnati Enquirer published an apology across the top of its front page and said it had agreed to pay Chiquita Brands International Inc. more than $10 million to avoid being sued for a series of articles that exposed the fruit companys criminal practices. [includes rush transcript]
~Snip~
While Chiquita hailed The Enquirer for acknowledging "that the conclusions in the article were untrue," Harry Whipple, the Enquirers publisher, has said he believed the voicemails, despite how they may have been obtained, were real. In an interview with the New York Times, he said "We are not aware of anything to suggest that this is an instance of a reporter fabricating something."
Nevertheless, the Enquirer has erased all the articles from its website; previously existing links on the internet to the stories now all lead to the Enquirers apology to Chiquita instead.
Chiquita, formerly known as the United Fruit Company, is the world s largest banana producer. Among the illegal Chiquita practices uncovered by the Enquirer s investigation:
Chiquita secretly controls dozens of supposedly independent banana companies. It also suppresses union activity on the farms it controls.
Despite its pact with environmental groups to abide by pesticide safety standards, Chiquita subsidiaries have used pesticides in Central America that are banned in the U.S., Canada, and the European Union. Chiquita also released harmful toxic chemicals into farms, killing at least one worker in Costa Rica according to a coroners report.
Chiquitas fruit transport ships have been used to smuggle cocaine into Europe. More than a ton of cocaine was seized from 7 Chiquita ships in 1997. (The Enquirer story says the illegal shipment was traced to lax Colombian security rather than to Chiquita)
Chiquita executives bribed Colombian officials
Chiquita called in the Honduran military to evict residents of a farm village; the soldiers forced the farmers out at gunpoint, and the village was bulldozed.
An employee of a competitor filed a federal lawsuit charging that armed men hired by Chiquita tried to kidnap him in Honduras.
~Snip~
Full transcript of the interview that follows with Amy Goodman and Allistair Smith the director of Banana Link, a non-profit organization concerned with practices of large banana corporations:
http://www.democracynow.org/1998/7/7/the_chiquita_banana_story
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Fruit_Company#Banana_massacre
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)and I'm beginning to "smell" what so many here have accused you of. I don't agree with anyone, even my closest friends, 100% of the time.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)anything but that and Bush wins.
It's like a great 0-0 pitching match between Gibson and Koufax-one sits back and watches it play out.
One doesn't call for one or the other to be burnt down and replaced.
Let them play it out.
and follow the serenity cannard. It is never wrong.
BTW, 80-20 or 100% is alot better than the inane 99/1 crap and putting down 100%
again, where is the complaints to those who thousands of times put the adminstration down.
We will never have a better President that the one that is the best since LBJ who was the best since Lincoln (or tied for the best with FDR).
100% can be rounded
you delete the best and worst, and then have the rest which equals 100 or as close as possible.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)it worse and yet, you managed. You said you agreed 100% with him and that he was perfect. Are you going to stand by that?
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)Don't sweat the small stuff.
And don't worry about what the other side does.
Keep your head up high and let them play dirty.
As for these libertarians and $$$ulteriormotive$$$ players in the media/altmedia, this is a capitalistic society, they are allowed to make a living, but I don't have to buy the crap
they are selling.
Anyone else is free to like them on Facebook. I don't facebook at all.
(and Zuck has admitted to culling all those info and pictures in a perpetual state.)
I don't choose to follow the media or anyone but President Obama.
But then, I wanted Obama in 2004, 2008 and 2012
I don't care what all these alt-media, regular media say.
I will go with my heart. (there are actual people here that hate John Lennon. Can you imagine?)
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,501 posts)razor wire while covered in habanero sauce.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,501 posts)Of cliches is even easier. Admitting what your true purpose is here, not so much. At least more and more people are catching up with your bullshit.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)Nothing to waiver from that.
I am not here to promote Ralph Nader, Ron or Rand Racist Paul or anything against President Obama and his agenda that WE elected him to do.(Which is NOT what the extremists want, because he is NOT working for the 5% of the far left on the party and never was. He is working for America, of which 95% of the democratic party is in synch with.
I have been 100% constant on that.
Anyone against Barack Obama is against ME.
I have told you my agenda-Barack Obama's agenda forever & rid racism. What's yours?
the wedge issues the alt-media promotes are RON PAUL issues. Sorry, 95% of the party
doesn't care about those issues and is not in the top 100 of what the 95% want.
btw-Elizabeth Warren is 100% part of Team Obama. Why do people wish her to quit the senate when as they say no one is better in the Senate?
Oh yeah, btw, as you know, 95% of the democratic party wants guns eradicated from the streets. The NRA don't. But then the NRA is the 1% of the country.
Those supporting guns support the 1%.
But once again, keep ad homening me personally, because well, the truth hurts and there are those that would love to hide the truth (especially libertarians and 3rd party ites that have no place in a democratic board as well, they are not democratic party supporters
plenty of Ron Paul sites to go to
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,501 posts)written on this thread? I guess it's my fault for replying in the first place. Ron Paul can go fuck himself and your obsession with him and Ralph Nader is beyond creepy. Do you have pictures of them up in your wall that you yell to at night?
Since we're doing this. I wear a size 11 1/2 shoe. To calculate a structural slab deflection one can use L/360. Per Wee Herman once said "I know you are. But what am I?". I guess it doesn't matter to you that Peter Sellers got up from his wheelchair in Dr. Strangelove and said "Mein Fuhrer, I can walk!!!". But like Chuck D said "Every Brother ain't a brother." But more importantly, we didn't start the fire. It was always burning since the world's been turning. And that is truly why gun proliferation is bad. So tell me why do you support puppy mills and the clubbing of baby seals? So there, argue with that.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)and I use Charmin w/ Aloe.
therefore, as I use a credit card/ e-z-pass, cell phone and admit to using Charmin, what more is there anyone wants to know, so I don't care who is listening
what I do care is that 3000 people died in MY NYC and two buildings I worked in every single day for a number of years in the late 70s/early80s were blown up by 19 people under orders from OBL.
as we are in a war, and as the war is ongoing
and as there was a clear and present danger that was prevented
would anyone have wanted another 3000 or more to die because they were not following up a lead?
The alt-media was quick to fall in love with the two boston mass murderer thrill seekers
and the law enforcement that BOSTON STRONGly loved and back was hated by the alt-media
after Boston.
the alt-media blamed law enforcement on Cleveland (didn't blame the one who did it, but blamed law enforcement
I will side with the President. and I side with Eric Holder, who never lied to me, and belongs on the US Supreme Court.
Peter Sellers was NOT the US President, and yes, I admit it, he got robbed at Oscar time when he didn't win as Chance in "Being there".
And anyone with their EYES WIDE CLOSED knows what the true agenda is of the Obama haters in the media. It is to elect Jeb Bush/Rand Paul 2016.
btw-should they arrest Ron Paul for littering the country with his racist signs that remain firmly attached to every lamppost in America?There are laws and they are suppose to be removed day after election. But of course, Ron Paul wants anarchy, chaos, and to burn America down.
Sorry, my agenda don't include handing him a match.
A family can be dysfunctional, almost all are.
But in public, a family sticks together.
President Obama is the head of our family.
Dissing him in public is dissing me.
I'll take No Thanks Alex for $2000.
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,501 posts)is this some masterful performance art the likes of which this site has never witnessed? Or, do we need to alert mental health professionals to intervene? It's obvious the admins here don't care. So what to do?
PS: While you're at it. We're gonna need you to post your address, social security number and bank accounts.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)except for $2 a week having fun supporting the NJ educational system for Lotto,
and 100% of everything else is paid via CC#
think they already know that.
If one is hiding anything, one doesn't need to worry.
What I gotta laugh about is-
all those 100% against anyone culling info is-
they are all on facebook
and the 1%er Zucky has admitted to having in perpetuality, every single word ever posted and photo posted forever, and didn't he admit to letting anyone see it?
And doesn't he support rightwing issues?
Why do people go on facebook?Facebook is far more intrusive than the FBI ever was.
btw, why do those who rail against the President not remember that Bobby wiretapped Dr. King. Yet Bobby is beloved and they hate our current President and the next one???
Riddle me that.
and I do feel bad for the purists in a political argument. There had to at sometime have been a libertarian that didn't sign up for what Ron Paul's true agenda is.I feel bad for that person.
But this is an adult site, and well, eyes wide shut makes them not see what Ron Paul truly is.
Again, I am not here to provide the match to burn down what the revolution won in 2008.
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,501 posts)of commie terrorist? I don't know shit about Facebook since I've never used it. I don't know what in the name of fuck Kennedy's dick move of wiretapping King has anything to do with anything posted here so far. If I can decipher your imbecilic nonsense. I gather you approve it. Then that just tells me that the character you play here is an even bigger fool than we'd all figured. As Ron Burgundy said "Hey come here everybody and see how good I look!!!"
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)why?
probably because Holder is black.
but using wiretap as excuse.
WGAS about that.
Washington himself did it, just not electronically back then.
(He cupped his ear with his hand and listened to two people whispering).
Will Ferrell should replace Alex Trebeck when Alex retires though.
BTW, Ron Paul is the satirist. Surely in 2013 one cannot have the 1950s views that Ron has.
BTW, I love LBJ, go figure some don't like him, though he was to the left of Bernie Sanders.
btw, serious question-would you follow an altmedia writer that worked for AIPAC and
Heck of a Job Michael Brown? Serious question.
(note-I don't care about the six degree stuff, and wild connections, but normally the alt-media fans do).
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,501 posts)wanna go to the pants party.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)here it is again
would you trust an alt-media writer who worked for aipac and was in a duo with Michael
Heck of a Job Brown from the Katrina days?
me, I don't care about the six degrees bullsheet
and me, I love ZBIG, one of the truly great minds of the 20th and 21st century.
Wish he was on Morning Joe everyday with his daughter
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,501 posts)seen a bigger Ron Paul booster.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,501 posts)Deez Nutz!!!
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)including leaving Don Siegelmann in jail, offering to cut SS benefits, having the DoJ try to overturn the legality of the morning after pill, and shut down medical marijuana dispensaries. So your opinion means nothing
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)terrible?
Parable Arable
(126 posts)I just don't get the sense that Holder can lead all that effectively or articulates himself well. Biden has been accused of making gaffes, but I've never once doubted his political savvy. An example of Holder's "bumblingness" was his "too big to jail" comment. Is it incorrect? Perhaps not. it really is difficult to persecute men in such high places. But I ask of our AG, couldn't you have just said something along the lines of "Punishing these banks is a very complex ordeal"? By claiming that the banks are "too big to jail", Holder frames the narrative as: "The DOJ is too weak or is unwilling to take any preventive measures to stop Wall St". By being so aggressive on marijuana use simultaneously, Holder also inadvertently gives the impression that the DOJ, and the administration as well, are more concerned with punishing substance users than those individuals on Wall ST who have harmed thousands. Now, you bring up a good point that it's on congress to pass anything or marijuana, but I just don't think Holder FRAMES a narrative all that well, if you catch my drift.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)standpoint, what is the problem? Congress has deregulated the banking industry so much so that certain practices that were once illegal or not anymore. So, again, I need to know what the specific laws that were broken? Holder can't prosecute anything unless laws were broken.
His job is to enforce the laws and no matter how stupid we think the marijuana possession laws are, they are FEDERAL laws. If we want change, we need a Congress brave enough to repeal these laws. We don't have that, and Holder's job is to enforce laws already on the books.
And quite frankly, as a woman of color, I think Holder is doing an outstanding job going after these voter suppression laws at the state level.
Parable Arable
(126 posts)http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/24/us/former-cia-officer-pleads-guilty-in-leak-case.html?_r=1&
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/30/feds_threaten_medical_pot_dispensaries_with_40_year_sentences/
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)With respect to the first article, I won't comment because it was a sloppily written and biased. Too slanted for me. I could post an article that is slanted in the other direction, but I won't because I'm more interested in learning about what happened. No speculation. The facts needs to come out first.
Regarding the second article, I haven't read enough on this particular case, so I'll have to do more work on that before commenting.
As for the third article, again, the job of the Attorney General is to enforce federal laws. We may not agree with those laws, but disagreement doesn't mean that the AG just ignores his/her job simply because we raise a stink. Again, we need a Congress that will repeal these ridiculous drug laws. If we can't get that, then we're stuck with them.
Bake
(21,977 posts)He's a pathetic AG. ZERO judicial experience and you want him on SCOTUS!
You've lost it.
Bake
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)graham4anything
(11,464 posts)the haters/extremists and their stupid, clear and present dangerous conspiracy theories have always hated him
and it's because Eric is black.
I do hope Hillary45 brings back Janet Reno, she was the best prior to Eric.
NOVA_Dem
(620 posts)If John Ashcroft put out some sh*@! like this we would be marching in the streets:
http://current.com/shows/the-young-turks/videos/under-holders-due-process-u-s-citizens-subject-to-whim-of-couple-of-guys-sitting-around-the-cia
PFunk
(876 posts)the way the senate (and house) is now it means that we may have NO AG for the rest of Obama's term if he does go. Said to see how broken this government is isn't it.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)Bake
(21,977 posts)Best ever, my ass. Among the WORST ever.
Are you just trying to start something? Nobody here thinks he's a great AG, much less best ever.
Bake
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)Bake
(21,977 posts)While prosecuting medical marijuana cases ... that's just for starters ...
Bake
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)problem. DEREGULATION made it possible for bankers to cheat, for mortgage banks to lure unsuspecting consumers, to fleece the public. That's the problem. Eric Holder can't prosecute anything if, again, nothing illegal took place. Can you tell me what illegal acts were committed. And please be specific and forthright.
As for the medical marijuana cases, marijuana posession and usage is a federal crime. Until Congress passes a law legalizing it, the DOJ is doing its job.
What else you got?
Bake
(21,977 posts)They could be prosecuted under any number of laws ... fraud, primarily. Give me a few minutes and I can get you the citations to USC.
Hell, they could be prosecuted under the Securities Exchange Act of 1934! Just for starters.
Bake
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)enforcement of the SEA. I see what you're getting at, but quite frankly, we have Bush I and II and Bill Clinton to thank for deregulating this industry. And while I'm being honest, I'll include Obama in that to a lesser degree. He even brags about how much he has deregulated the industry. Give Holder something to prosecute and I'm there with you. But if there are no recent laws (enacted prior to 1994) that the bankers have broken, that would be a problem for Holder. As much as Pap goes on and on about Holder, he himself admits that deregulation has been the problem; his emotions get the better of him. He's angry and is not thinking. I listen to him when he comes on the Ed Schultz's talk radio show, and he is annoying. I want him to be reasonable and blame deregulation for the mess we're in, and understand that Holder's hands are tied. It's frustrating because the Wall Streeters have never paid for their sins, but again, there were no sins committed that were also illegal. That's been the problem that Eric Schneiderman (NY Attorney General) has also admitted to: the reason he couldn't reach a more robust mortgage settlement for the home buyers is because the industry had been so deregulated that he really didn't have legal justification for pursing criminal activity. People are upset about it, but again, deregulation is what's causing this mess. And the states' attorneys general, as well as, Holder have attempted to get the American people to understand this problem. It didn't exist when Obama came into office; it existed long before him. Deregulation of the banking industry has proceeded apace for well over a decade. Much of that blame lay at the feet of both Bushes and Bill Clinton, and to a lesser extent, Obama. And much of the action to undo deregulation MUST come from acts of Congress. A reinstatement of Glass-Steagall would be a start. Again, nothing to do with Obama and Holder. Congress needs to exercise some oversight, but that oversight function has been weakened since the mid-1990s. With deregulatory policies and little oversight, again, tell me what Holder has to prosecute? Be specific.
Bake
(21,977 posts)Use of any artifice or scheme to defraud. The banks are all publicly traded, hence, the coverup of info about the mortgage backed securities (worthless paper) defrauded investors in their stock.
That'd still work.
Bake
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)msongs
(67,405 posts)smorkingapple
(827 posts)Much of this will blow over in time. Just need to ride it out for another month.
frylock
(34,825 posts)who cares about doing what's right? just do whatever as long as it pisses of the other side, amiright?
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)thecrow
(5,519 posts)First they attacked the State Dept. and Hillary Clinton and now they are going after Eric Holder to knock down Justice. What next? Kerry?
thecrow
(5,519 posts)First they attacked the State Dept. and Hillary Clinton and now they are going after Eric Holder to knock down Justice. What next? Kerry?