Mr. President: move the convention.

[Pab Sungenis]

Do not force members of the party that actually believes in equality for all to patronize the state that has gone further beyond the pale than any other to date in enshrining bigotry into law.

Don't force us to patronize the state that passed a law written specifically to "preserve the Caucasian race."

Don't force us to acknowledge, accept, and silently condone their hatred.

There is no teachable moment here. There is no cheek left to turn. You say you're evolving? Well, North Carolina is devolving even faster than you are evolving.

Don't give us one more reason to be angry and frustrated with you. Make a solid statement now. Let us vote with our feet and our wallets.

Move the convention out of Charlotte.

[Kalidurga]

1. He can move the convention to Minneapolis...

we have experience with conventions here.

[DURHAM D]

2. He can come here on one condition.

He allows the Party to put a marriage equality plank in the platform.

[Zorro]

3. Move the convention and mark North Carolina in the loss column in November

That's what would happen.

[Pab Sungenis]

4. North Carolina is already lost.

There is no way a state that votes the way it did tonight would vote to re-elect even the conservative Democrat we have right now.

[DURHAM D]

5. One good thing -

this Amendment could have been on the November ballot.

[Retrograde]

8. By that reasoning he loses California

and all the other states that voted against marriage equality.

[Pab Sungenis]

10. This isn't just equality.

This law is the worst. Have you read it? All of it?

[trueblue2007]

46. PRES OBAMA..... GET THE HECK OUT OF NORTH CAROLINA!!!! BOYCOTT NORTH CAROLINA

[Capn Sunshine]

50. That's just NOT the fact you think it is

the electorate in the primary is NOT The same composition as the general.

These guys that voted are the same wingnuts that voted for Gingrich for President.

In a general , the voter composition is within the margin of error. ( +/- 5%)
46-40 currently

[CBHagman]

66. As my Republican father would say, that's a hell of an attitude.

And I would say that six months is a very long time indeed in politics. A lot can happen in six months.

And a lot of work can be done.

[Major Hogwash]

79. There will be a backlash for that vote.

And it is too late to move the convention.

[PFunk]

15. NC's already a loss now.

This election highlighted that. Time to just recognize that fact and move on.

[Carnage251]

16. I guess Maine and Florida are already lost also

Ever heard of Maine Question 1 or Florida Amendment 2?

[Pab Sungenis]

26. Both of which are peanuts

Compared to this.

[JoePhilly]

28. Do you live in NC?

I do. Yesterday's turn out was tiny. That's why the whack jobs put this amendment into this voting cycle. They knew the crazies would vote and most of the rest of the state wouldn't even think about voting.

The GOP goal is to get the Dems to hand them NC in November.

We're not going to do that.

btw ... most recent poll had Obama +4 against Romney in NC.

[musicblind]

49. NC is not a loss. And I am a gay male and live in NC. n/t

[bluestateguy]

6. Charlotte-Mecklenberg voted NO 54% on Amendment 1

Here:

http://results.enr.clarityelections.com/NC/Mecklenburg/36656/80739/en/summary.html

Don't punish them for what the country bumpkins did out in the countryside.

[Pab Sungenis]

11. If there was a way the money could stay in Charlotte, that might make a difference.

But it will help line the state tax coffers, too.

[jberryhill]

17. And the state government voted, how?

What did the state government, and by extension its employees, do here?

[Pab Sungenis]

25. The state government

Put it on the ballot to begin with.

[jberryhill]

35. As have 32 other states

[Pab Sungenis]

36. Not to this degree.

Have you actually read the law? And the commentary on it?

[jberryhill]

38. Yes

Now let me ask you a question. Who in your family grew up gay in North Carolina?

My cousin did. It wasn't easy. He still lives there, and he's looking forward to the convention.

[Pab Sungenis]

39. Two cousins.

And I think they would rather have their rights than a convention.

[jberryhill]

41. I demand they stop contributing to NC's economy

[Pab Sungenis]

45. They are.

They're moving back to NJ.

[treestar]

20. Exactly. This is misplaced.

The entire country could be "punished" for this. It won't make a difference to "punish" Charlotte, NC for this.

[bigwillq]

7. The bold move would be to not show up.

He would earn my vote if he did that.

[Pab Sungenis]

9. And that would still mean our party

would be pumping tax revenue into the most bigoted state in the country. No thank you.

This GayTM is no longer just down for service; if the convention isn't moved then this GayTM is being removed never to be replaced.

[bigwillq]

12. Can they move it?

Is it too late at this point?

[Pab Sungenis]

24. 1972

Less than three months to go the Republicans moved from San Diego to Miami.

[rug]

13. Maybe it won't be discussed there.

"Democrats have a long and proud history of defending Civil Rights and expanding opportunity for all Americans. From the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act in 2009, Democrats have fought to end discrimination in all forms—including discrimination based on race, sex, ethnicity or national origin, language, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, age, or disability.

"For too many though, this ideal is still far from a reality. That’s why in our fight to stand up for civil rights for all Americans, we are committed to protecting voting rights, enacting the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, ensuring civil unions and equal federal rights for LGBT couples and fully repealing the Defense of Marriage Act."

http://www.democrats.org/issues/civil_rights

[dennis4868]

14. Dems will always have issues with...

Dem presidents...that's just the way it is...we want 100% change in 5 minutes and if that doesn't happen we go nuts...President Roosevelt took alot of crap from libs because they felt change was going to slow....

[Carnage251]

18. Having the convention there isn't condoning the law

It would be idiotic to secede North Carolina, it is an important swing state that is going to decide this election.

[Bolo Boffin]

19. No.

For a moment, I thought just this. But it's unrealistic to move the convention at this late date. The area where the convention is voted heavily against Amendment One.

Don't want another reason to be angry and frustrated with President Obama? Don't invent one.

[treestar]

21. +1

That's exactly what this is.

[Pab Sungenis]

23. Don't want the gays to stay home like in 2010?

Dont belittle our issues.

If gays had voted in the same proportions in 2010 as in 2008 more than a few close races might have gone the other way. I voted in 2010; don't make me regret doing so.

[Bolo Boffin]

27. I am one of "the gays", Pab

I don't really care what the fuck you do, as long as you don't pretend to talk for "the gays" or for me.

[Pab Sungenis]

33. I thought long and hard about how to reply

and think the safest way is just to ignore.

[scheming daemons]

56. Translation: "I was pwned."

Your thread is wrong. Bofo told you why. You have no valid response.

[Whisp]

43. + lots of 0's

[Arkana]

32. How is it belittling your issues?

It's only a few months until the convention--you honestly think the Democrats can pack up and move everything within the span of 90 days when it takes a year to plan a convention?

[Pab Sungenis]

34. Would you ask blacks to go to a convention

in Alabama three months after a Democratic governor proclaimed "segregation now, segregation forever?"

And conventions have been moved on short notice before.

[Arkana]

42. No, but no one's asking gay people to sit at the back of a bus

or drink from a "gay only" water fountain.

And if you honestly think they could pack up and move now then you have literally no idea the shit the Secret Service has to go through to secure an entire city for a convention.

[Pab Sungenis]

44. You have no clue what gays go through every day in some states.

I'm so glad you think our rights aren't worth consideration.

[treestar]

53. Why would anyone with a brain stay home due to the location of the convention?

And let Rmoney win? Your "threat" is to yourself more than to the people you are "threatening."

[Pab Sungenis]

54. I'm not "threatening."

I'm voting. But I'm sick to my stomach for having to do it.

And it's not that they won't vote because of the location of the convention; they won't vote because like in 2010 they're being told by actions (instead of pretty words) that their life-and-death issues don't mean shit.

[treestar]

57. If it's a life and death issue, then why risk Rmoney winning?

That would be more of a "death" situation. And what about other people's life and death issues? People who vote only regarding one issue regarding themselves are not part of a society - if they don't give a shit about anyone else. What about the people who, gay or straight, would fall through the now non-existence social safety net that could happen under Republicans? What about the minorities who would suffer under Republicans? What about the people, American and not, who would die in wars (literally life and death). Those who stayed home in 2010 over their issue don't seem to me to give a shit about anybody else under your story.

[Pab Sungenis]

58. Why risk Rmoney winning?

Because, on most life-or-death gay issues, the Democrats have been as bad as the Republicans. Until Obama gave his "states rights" speech yesterday he and Rmoney had basically the same policy on same-sex marriage: no. Now Rmoney wants no gay marriage anywhere and Obama wants it unless you happen to live in one of 43 states.

Gay Democrats stayed home in 2010 because the Democrats in Congress did nothing for our issues and Obama kept dismissing and insulting us. We didn't actually get DADT repealed until after the Democrats lost the House, and until that point Obama was still defending it in court by comparing our relationships to incest and pedophilia.

It's not hard to see, under those circumstances, why gay Democrats would want to throw up their hands and say "what the fuck." And a lot of them did. That's why gay support for Democratic candidates plunged 15% between 2008 and 2010. And with 5-10% of the voters in many districts being gay, a swing like that can be enough to toss a close election. A good number of Blue Dogs got tossed out because gays stopped holding their noses and voting.

When you give a candidate a choice between "the guy who hates me" and "the guy who hates me more" don't be surprised if they don't vote at all.

Yesterday the President took a quarter of a baby step in the right direction by repeating his "states rights" policy on gay marriage. But if that's all that happens it's far too little far too late. We need the platform plank. We need a bold stand snubbing North Carolina and its new Gaypartheid policy. And we need some real action on our issues instead of pretty words, eyewash, and a knife in the back after our wallets have been emptied.

[treestar]

59. OK, so according to you, they care only about themselves

And as far as wars go, people can die, they don't care.

[Pab Sungenis]

60. In 2010 there was no difference on the wars, either.

Obama was continuing them, even escalating Afghanistan.

And it's hard to get worked up over injustice overseas when you're a victim of injustice at home.

[treestar]

61. Of course there was a difference on the wars

Obama was ending the one in Iraq. The Republicans would not have done that. And they'd have let Afghanistan get more out of hand and un-endable by continuing to neglect what they had started. Republicans are far worse for everyone. I do not see how any rational gay person or any person could consider Republicans "no different."

[Pab Sungenis]

62. On gay issues? In 2010?

They were no different. Both parties were openly antagonistic to our concerns.

Now we have one party that hates us, and one that dislikes us intensely. That's a difference, but not much of one.

Deeds, not actions. Show us that you're committed to our rights.

[dionysus]

65. and if he moved it, you'd invent something else to be outraged about. bank it.

[taterguy]

22. If only they had known in advance that the state was filled with bigots

Oh wait, NC is the state that produced Jesse Helms.

Why is anyone surprised?

[JoePhilly]

29. 28 states have similar provisions written into their constitutions.

the GOP in NC took advantage of a low turn out primary to get this nonsense passed.

They hope the Dems give up on NC and skip it in November.

Don't think we should give them exactly what they want.

[davidpdx]

52. Oregon is one of those states

We are talking about one of the most progressive states and they passed it. That was fucking shocking.

[JoePhilly]

63. All you have to do is put it in a low turn out election ... the fundies

are motivated by GOD ... so they go out and vote.

Others think ... ehh, won't happen here ... then it does.

My son is 18 and he voted AGAINST Amendment one here in NC (this was his first official opportunity to vote), and then when he got up the next morning, he couldn't believe that it passed.

He's glad he voted against it, and pissed that it passed. He won't be skipping any elections down the road. He knows they matter.

[davidpdx]

69. It was passed in 2004

Which makes sense because there was really no excitement for liberals to vote with Kerry/Edwards on the ticket and Bush/Cheney carrying out voting suppression.

[avebury]

30. I never understood why on earth the Democrats ever picked North Carolina in the first place. nt

[onenote]

80. You don't understand because you probably know little about North Carolina

For example, are you aware that the last three governors elected in NC have been Democrats? That the current governor and lieutenant governor are Democrats? That one of the two US Senators is a Democrat and that 7 of 13 members of the House are Democrats (although that likely will change due to redistricting)? That prior to the 2010 elections (which were a disaster for Democrats all across the country), Democrats had majorities in the state house and senate? That turn out for the vote on Amendment 1 was half the turnout in the 2008 presidential election? That nearly the same number of votes were cast in the Democratic and Republican primaries in NC in 2012, and Obama received more votes than Romney?

I'm guessing you weren't aware of these facts.

[Arkana]

31. A year ago this would have been possible but it's not going to happen in four months.

Logistics make it nigh impossible.

[AngryAmish]

37. We will find out how important gays and lesbians are to our party one way or the other.

[Pab Sungenis]

40. I think we already have.

It's just that we keep turning the other cheek. Well, we have no cheeks left.

[Thrill]

47. No Thanks we've already spent a ton

of money in the city in preparation. And Charlotte is one of the more Democratic parts of the state

[musicblind]

48. As a gay man who lives in NC, please do not move the convention. NC is on the bubble of turning

blue and it NEEDS things like the DNC convention to help push it over the edge.

This vote was done by republicans during the republican primary.

For example, PPP polling showed that when the Amendment was EXPLAINED to the majority of people in the state... the majority opposed it.

As a gay man in NC, I am mourning this already... I do not want to have to mourn the loss of the DNC convention on top of that.

[davidpdx]

51. Good point

It will put pressure on the state to repeal the measure if there is national attention on the matter. Keeping the convention in NC could do that. Sounds like a good time for a march. I hope someone organizes that.

As someone else said, it would be pretty hard to change the convention at this point. Hotel rooms are already booked and I'd bet most people have air tickets since it will be at the end of the peak season for flying.

[scheming daemons]

55. This thread is misguided

A. An event this big can't be moved with only 4 months to go. Just can't logistically happen. The DNC has already paid for too much of it.

B: The Charlotte area voted 54% to strike down Amendment 1. Don't punish the good people of the Charlotte area because the rest of their state is a bunch of assholes. I live in Pittsburgh... I wouldn't want to be punished because the assholes in the middle of the state did something stupid.

C. The best way to convert those on the fence in NC is to GO TO THEM, not to run away from them.

[musicblind]

64. Thank you! n/t

[davidpdx]

70. SD

Nicely put.

[AtomicKitten]

67. That would be logistically improbable if not impossible.

Plus have friends in NC that are really looking forward to the Big Show coming to town. What about the people in NC that voted against Amendment One? I assure you you aren't speaking for them.

"Don't give us one more reason to be angry and frustrated with you."

It's clear you haven't concerned yourself with the implications of your request/passive-aggressive threat, so you may as well go straight to angry. I'll look for your scathing OPs on the subject.

[tcaudilllg]

68. I can't wait to see him lecture NC

It'll be a moment for the history books.

[Skrewdriver]

71. No, we shouldn't move the convention!!

NC, is a swing state and is very important in Nov. Majority of the country and those who live in NC are interested in jobs and the economy, not gay marriage. The rethugs are using this as a distraction, which explains why Mittens is ahead in the national polls by at least 7pts according to rasmussen. We can't afford to let the rethugs re-frame the issues of this election to social issues. Rethugs, always win on social issues, we have to get the media back to discussing the issues that most affect Americans which is jobs!! Leave the convention right where it is, NC is a beautiful state and democrats live their too. What happened in NC, happened in CA as well so I'm not understanding why folks are so shocked.

[Pab Sungenis]

72. Thank you, Mr. Concern.

For reaffirming that as far as our rights are concerned, unless we're being asked to pony up money or vote the party line, we don't mean shit. Keeping our party convention, and the money that will be spent, in the home of Gaypartheid is just the latest insult.

Thank you for reaffirming that as far as the party's rank and file is concerned, we don't count. Thank you for confirming that only straight Democrats have feelings to be insulted.

And goodbye.

[Skrewdriver]

74. Gaypartheid?

Yeah, go tell that to black South Africans who were murdered and jailed because of the color of their skin and see what reaction you get.lol Anywho, like others have said, the convention will stay in NC, which is a swing state and needs to be won again. You can't simply bully the democratic party and democrats in NC because you didn't get your way. Where would you like to have the convention since every state when asked to vote on gay marriage has voted against it. Would you punish democrats in every state?

[SpartanDem]

73. This is a stupid idea

First, politically NC is a swing state with a good chance of going blue again. Secondly, what could better than endorsing a platform for marriage equality in NC? Fight them on their own turf don't run away.

[Pab Sungenis]

77. Talk to them about "you've been a very bad boy"

while shoveling cash their way? No thanks. Sends entirely the wrong message.

[akbacchus_BC]

75. Too late to the discussion but no, the President should

not move the convention. He always said that he is for the American people and too bad they voted negatively for Gay rights. However, the President cannot cut off his nose to spite his face. He actually wins by not looking for a new place and most importantly, it would not serve any purpose except for the NC bigots to say, we told you so! Let the convention stay!

[Pab Sungenis]

76. "He is for the American people."

So gays aren't Americans? Or are we only American enough to deserve pretty words but nothing of substance?

[sofa king]

78. Keep the convention, get another referendum on the Nov. ballot!

According to that GOP pollster that Andy Sullivan dug up last week, the change of opinion on gay marriage is moving fast, and just like global warming the rate of change is accelerating. Ten percent of voters may change their minds this year alone, particularly if it is kept in the spotlight and the usual suspects in the bought media fulminate all over themselves.

The referendum won by 61%. In six months, that could be 51%-49%. With Romney depressing Republican turnout nationwide, and with the President firmly planting the flag there in NC for the convention, it is not out of the realm of possibility that a vote to repeal the referendum can also win this year, for us.

I think that like Barry Sanders watching a play unfold, President Obama has spotted a hole that doesn't exist yet, and plans to crash through that.