If Democrats continue to do little or nothing about Republican election fraud, we will

[Cal33]

Last edited Sun Nov 16, 2014, 11:03 PM - Edit history (3)

continue to "lose" in 2016 as much as we did in 2014 -- even if we should actually
have won by a large margin.

Have you noticed that much of Republican election fraud has become legalized
(gerrymandering, for instance) and more than half-way in the open? They are
publicly showing their contempt for and laughing at our weakness. We just
accept whatever crap they toss at us. How many Democratic states still use the
Diebold Electronic Voting machines? How much voter-suppression trickery is going
on all over the country?

How many Democrats just can't be bothered with all this, and let things continue
as they are? I am sure many Repubs. are just gleefully gloating over this attitude.

http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/videos/video/the-electronic-voting-madness-the-mainstream-media-didn-t-report-on

[YarnAddict]

1. Gerrymandering isn't fraud

And both sides use it for their own benefit, when they can.

Gerrymandering can be a very good thing. There are districts that are bizarrely drawn, but whose boundaries enable their minority residents to have a voice they wouldn't otherwise have.

Just like with the filibuster, be careful what you wish for, because it can come back and bite you in the butt!

[Cal33]

6. But how often have Repubs. used this trick specifically for the purpose of favoring

themselves come election time? This is actually legalized fraud. Dems. occasionally
fight back by giving them a dose of their own medicine. Dems. should do this more
often. What's so wrong about fighting back and giving them a dose of what they
have been dishing out? Treating them like gentlemen has only served to embolden
them to be still dirtier.

We are dealing with psychopathic crooks, not gentlemen. Psychopaths have more
respect for the stick, and only laugh at gentlemanly manners. Give them an inch and
they take a mile. Obama never understood this -- judging from the way he has been
appeasing them the past 6 years. So, give them more of what they respect and need
--the stick.

[YarnAddict]

8. It isn't fraud

and if the 2010 census had gone the other way, you would think gerrymandering was a very fine thing.

[noiretextatique]

9. but there is fraud in the roll-scrubbing schemes

and disenfranchisement via voter id laws. democrats ignore these problems at their own peril.

[YarnAddict]

14. Agree about that

Not about gerrymandering.

[rock]

58. It is malfeasance of duty

It's disrespectful of the Democracy and it is fraud. Just because no one does anything about it does no legitimize it.

[yeoman6987]

26. Republicans use it for their own good? Of course they do

Democratic politicians do too. Have you ever seen Maryland redrawn districts.....it is quite interesting. When we have the opportunity we do the exact same thing for our benefit.

[Cal33]

27. But which Party started it first?

[former9thward]

30. The Democratic-Republican party in 1812 which was a forerunner to the modern Democratic Party.e

The word gerrymander (originally written Gerry-mander) was used for the first time in the Boston Gazette on 26 March 1812. The word was created in reaction to a redrawing of Massachusetts Congressional election districts under the then-governor Elbridge Gerry (pronounced /ˈɡɛri/; 1744–1814). In 1812, Governor Gerry signed a bill that redistricted Massachusetts to benefit his Democratic-Republican Party. When mapped, one of the contorted districts in the Boston area was said to resemble the shape of a salamander.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering



Printed in March 1812, this political cartoon was drawn in reaction to the newly drawn Congressional electoral district of South Essex County drawn by the Massachusetts legislature to favour the Democratic-Republican Party candidates of Governor Elbridge Gerry over the Federalists. The caricature satirises the bizarre shape of a district in Essex County, Massachusetts as a dragon-like "monster." Federalist newspapers editors and others at the time likened the district shape to a salamander, and the word gerrymander was a blend of that word and Governor Gerry's last name.

[yeoman6987]

31. Back in 1800's? I don't know but it seems silly

To say "who started it first".

[Cal33]

32. Yes, since it started 2 centuries ago. Perhaps "Who uses it far more often?" would be less

inappropriate.

[yeoman6987]

33. I say Democratic Party needs to step up

Start Gerrymandering what they can. They do already, but since they only care about GOP doing it which is weird. Look at our states. Most blue states have a majority of Democratic districts. GOP doesn't complain much about it. It is legal so use it.

[Cal33]

37. I agree. It's high time that we not simply absorb the bullying that the Republicans dish out, it's

time that we gave them back some medicine of their own. Two can play at the same game.
They'll respect the Democrats more for it.

[forthemiddle]

34. In 2009 in Wisconsin

The GOP put forward a bill for a district redrawing that would not be legislature written. The Dems, who had control at the time, refused to put it up for a vote assuming they would stay in control.
We all remember what happened in the 2010 election, and now the Repubs will be in control for the rest of the decade, in my mind thanks to the Dems arrogance and gerrymandering.

[RKP5637]

2. The core problem IMO is far too many democrats are lackluster. They whine, and then do nothing.

Meanwhile, like a gang of crooks, the republicans are well organized and exploit the democratic weaknesses.

[RBInMaine]

4. Right, like going to VOTE. Hours on end in Black Friday lines but can't vote? STUPID !

[RKP5637]

7. Exactly! That, is what really really pisses me off about some democrats. One donates, makes calls,

does all sorts of things to work for a win, and some democrats don't bother to show up to vote. Like WTF!

As I've often said, the democrats deserve what happens. It is pathetic and sad. And the fools that think it's just about the presidential election. We are not electing a king/queen - they do not have ultimate authority, but yet some act as if that's all that's needed.

What is needed is a 7x24 effort, all the time. I get so damn disgusted. At minimal, at the absolute barest minimal, one could get off their ass and go vote and even easier, do a mail in ballot. Just how F'en hard is that to do.

[noiretextatique]

10. any comments about voter id laws?

or roll-scrubbing schemes? it amazes me that those who are so angry at voters don't seem to have a comment about GOP-sponsored disenfranchisement.

[Stevepol]

36. Is it really a failure to vote?

Or is it just the result of the voter suppression schemes finally having their inevitable effect. In many states around the country during the election, the number of voters was down very likely BECAUSE OF the ID and other outlandish requirements. The percentages would indicate this in TX and KS and TN, for example. Brad Friedman has an interesting blog entry about it:

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=10932

It seems quite logical to me. If you know you are supposed to have a photo ID and you don't have one, why bother to go vote? These people have no way to make their plight known to others and no time to make it known anyway if by good fortune they have a job of some kind which likely keeps them too busy to vote.

[Sunlei]

46. can't find the list now, think cnn? did it. most who didn't vote were at work or didn't know there w

or didn't even know there was an election, had no transportation.

only about 10% said they didn't vote because they didn't like who was running.

All the D websites when one clicked on them asked for donations or phone call volunteers. emails spammed for donations.

Not one website, not one D email had an easy to see button for help with ID, help with early vote, a ride to vote or help with a mail-in ballot.

[aspirant]

48. Is it time to question all these dem websites and where the money goes?

[Sunlei]

49. no its never the time for Ds to attack Ds

[aspirant]

50. Wise donations

Even corporate D's that are in it mainly for the money? There was a recent post here that cited "Open Secrets" website showing the breakdown of PCCC revenues and spending, rather revealing.

[Sunlei]

51. so? R 'political charities' were caught using twitter to send information to their R districts.

The twitter accounts were deleted. That is election fraud and very illegal. google it.

Ds need to focus on Rs fraud and reveal it. cut off the legs of the entrenched state Rs and local Rs. like Perry just got neutered with legal problems. Infighting among Ds only helps Rs.

[aspirant]

57. Why not both? Neutering Perry and Davis still lost.

[noiretextatique]

60. the cost of a state ID in california is now $26.00

an increase from @ $6.00, less than five years ago. i wonder what the cost is in other states? there is NO REASON on earth that a student ID, or a union ID or any other picture ID should not be sufficient to vote. i believe it was a combination of a a disjointed democratic message which do not motivate the base, AND voter ID scams and purging eligible voters that created the "win" for republicons. and it really pisses me off that some democrats chose ONLY to blame people who did not vote. i think it is more important to focus on the GOP's disenfranchisement of voters. i guess some people just can't admit who truly CORRUPTED our voting system is. it's sort of like blaming Nader for 2000 instead of the treasonous five on SCOTUS.

[on point]

3. The kind of voter fraud the pukes do should have 20 yr sentences

We need a national (not just old south) voters rights act that outlaws all the chicanery the pukes use and mandates early voting, no ID laws, standards for audit able votes, and independent committees to set boundaries for representative's districts


This should be a national goal and on the platform of the PRG That appeals to a broad swath of people

Part of strategy to take back elections for the people. Also includes bringing back fairness doctrine, breaking up the media monopolies, net neutrality, and of course getting corp / dark money out of politics

Of course this will require a dem party that goes on offensive instead of rolling over to play dead

[Cal33]

19. With more people like Warren, Sanders, Grayson, Franken.....in leadership positions, things

might begin to change. The Dem. Party going on the "offensive." Wow! That is something
to look forward to! It will take time, though. A lot of time.

[RBInMaine]

5. You are inviting paranoia and an odd conspiracy theory narrative. I will agree they want to make

voting harder, but this is not a major problem.

The best thing Democrats/Progressives can do is stop the whining and complaining, go and get the damned ID cards, and VOTE.

If there is time to wait in Black Friday lines to buy tv sets, there is time to VOTE.

We don't need to waste energy on near-delusional conspiracy theories. Apparently "vote fraud" didn't stop Obama from winning the last two elections.

[noiretextatique]

11. 700,000 people scrubbed from the voter rolls in the past election

no big deal. just VOTE!!!! head firmly stuck in the sand.

[Cal33]

12. My guess is that Obama won the last two elections because, to a large extent, the Repubs.

miscalculated how large a percentage of fraud to use. They didn't expect
Obama to win by such huge margins. They've learned their lesson and
made up for it in 2014.

It would be a very rare thing for Repubs. to win in any HONEST election!

As for getting "the damned ID cards," I understand that in some Southern
States, it's quite expensive -- expensive for the many poor blacks and
latinos who live there.

Should Democrats also "stop whining and complaining" about the numerous
Republican dirty tricks, such as gerrymandering and other voter suppression
techniques, and simply let the Repubs. continue as they have been and are
still doing?

[Cosmocat]

17. He won because

Short of this bullshit to break up Electoral Votes they just don't have enough to game a country wide vote in a higher turnout presidential.

State level is their wheelhouse because they can get into power at the state level and drive district lines.

[aspirant]

38. Yes'um master repubs.

Please give me the logistics of your opinion. If they require a birth certificate and/or passport to get a driver's license how many poor people can afford that. My home state wanted 30 dollars for a bc and the post office wanted over $150 for a passport. It is called a poll tax which is illegal, but where is our justice dept. "Go and get the damned ID cards" and I hope the poor can depend on you to pay for them.Dem principles include the right to vote without paying for it so here again we throw our principles out the window and succumb to the repubs rules like docile sheep,

[noiretextatique]

13. it is unbelievable to me that some people claim this is not important

it is the typical third way type of dissonance and double-speak that continues to alienate democratic voters.

[Cal33]

15. Is it possible that they might be planted Republican moles?

[noiretextatique]

16. no...third way apologists

who love to stick their heads in the sand and complain about liberals not voting. forget about all the people who could not vote...it is more important to maintain the liberal-bashing model of the third way.

[Cal33]

18. Yes, and more and more Democrats are becoming disillusioned and fed up with

the Third Way leadership. I can imagine some of them staying home and not voting
because they saw the Third Way leadership as losers.

The Democratic Establishment is probably realizing the above, too. Could this be a
reason why they started a new leadership position in the Senate especially for
Elizabeth Warren? They can't help but see her rising popularity among Democrats.
It's staring them in the face. Nor can they ignore their own increasing unpopularity.

I hope that the Third Way Democratic leadership is seeing that their style of governing
has helped the Republicans to become stronger over the years. They could use Warren
to prevent themselves from falling still lower in the eyes of more and more Democrats.
I also hope this means that they are willing to shift more to the liberal side.

To some people the Republicans have turned "liberal" into a dirty word. It's about time
that it got back its original positive meaning. It's the present-day Republicans who are
the dirty slime.

[noiretextatique]

59. let's hope so

it's long past time for them to listen instead of pushing their republicon-lite agenda.

[aspirant]

39. Which non-voting dems?

There was 1 Right-wing dem who posted that the majority of 2008 Clinton supporters ended up voting for Obama. That leaves the minority of 49% and below not voting for the President. I wasn't on DU then but could anyone who was tell me if they publicly announced their non-voting stance and how much screaming the progressives did?

[colsohlibgal]

20. Shame On The Corporate State And Democrats

Greg Palast has done some great investigating on voting fraud but nobody will hire him here, he had to go to the BBC to get a voice.

Most people here want to keep their head in the sand.

[Enthusiast]

21. +1

[Cal33]

23. What you say is a part of the truth, yes. The fact that 90% of the news media is Republican-owned

can't help but also play an important role.

There are also Democratic billionaires. I was wondering if they have ever thought of joining
together and starting big-scale Democratic news media that would print the truth and expose
every Republican half-truth, lie, and twisting around of facts.

We get too few Republican citizens to learn the truth the way things are at present.

[aspirant]

40. A progressive billionaire is an oxymoron, they must be fiscally conservative to amass that money

[99th_Monkey]

22. I think the preferred term is "election fraud" for what ReThugs do

The GOP "true the vote" freaks are the ones that use the term "voter fraud" ...

i.e. fraud perpetrated by over-zealous liberal voters <-- not ONE of which has ever been identified

[Cal33]

24. Should we let the Republicans dictate the meanings of words in the English language, too? I

prefer not to.

[99th_Monkey]

25. It's not just the ReThugs that are using the terms that way

It actually makes sense, in that election fraud is perpetrated by corrupt election officials and/or GOP computer hackers; whereas with the mythical "voter fraud" it is the voter who is supposedly being fraudulent.

Using the term voter fraud implies you are blaming voters. If your intent is to communicate, words matter.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/28/1137404/-Terminology-is-important-Election-Fraud-v-Voter-Fraud#

BTW here's a little list of the ways ReThugs cheat,
1) onerous voter ID requirements (see Texas)
2) "Official" misinformation about polling place location, date of election
etc. distributed to deliberately mislead Democratic voters.
3) unbearably long-lines in heavily Democratic precincts
4) "running out of" ballots in ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
5) taking machines off line for "maintenance"
6) "losing" registration records
7) tracking ^above^ and then (in closing hours) hacking electronic-voting
machines (as needed to "close the deal&quot in final stretch.

[Cal33]

28. I see your point. You have convinced me. Thanks.

[99th_Monkey]

29. Sure thing. nt

[aspirant]

41. Where are our progressive poll watchers?

[TheKentuckian]

43. Impotent, what do you think they can do in many of the situations?

They help with the blatantly obvious stuff but depend on the media, law enforcement, the courts, and the state to even get any kind of remedy for that stuff.

They can't make more ballots, bring in more machines, prevent purges, stop wicked misinformation, or do anything about the endless shenanigans that go on with ballots. You can't just try to find a "small person" to blame and move on doing the same thing.

[aspirant]

44. Small people matter

I thought everything was local ,started at the grass roots. Why was there ruckus about 2000 election judges getting robocalls? Doesn't the inquires about irregularities began in the polling places on election day. Can you honestly say the media, police, the courts and the states are on top of this? Where did I say that we should blame only the poll workers for all our problems? If you inferred that, kindly re-check your inference. Asking where are the poll workers doesn't even come close to saying everybody else is totally irrelevant. Prodding the big fish with poll workers eye witness testimony may help.

[TheKentuckian]

61. I don't think they are on top of anything other than disenfranchisement efforts and gobbling money.

My point is poll watchers don't have power and authority and in many cases are going to be out of the loop completely on shenanigans.

First, second, and third focus needs to be on the people with actual power. I'm sure poll watchers report "hey, we've got people lined up down the street" and "hey, we've only got one working machine" but they cannot REMEDY THE SITUATIONS.

[aspirant]

45. Progressives,anywhere, can make a difference.

Please help me understand this a little better by what you have written.
1) when they run out of ballots do they call for more, use provisional ballots or shut down the shop? Wouldn't their reporting of this be helpful to all?
2) If a precinct has only 3 machines and they all break down, can they call for more machines or just shut down the shop and disenfranchise voters? Wouldn't their reporting of this be helpful to all?
3)If numerous voters couldn't vote because the computers said they weren't registered and they've voted for years (possible purge) would this info be important? Wouldn't their reporting of this be helpful to all?
4)If someone walked in with a completed repub ballot that they were told they must use, is it wise to give them the proper info? Wouldn't the reporting of this be helpful to all?

The small person does count.

[TheKentuckian]

62. I'm saying goes there is many a slip between the cup and the lip between reporting and remedy.

In Florida, Crist went to the court for remedy (thank you poll watchers), the court said to like it or lump it and kiss my ass.

Yes, poll watchers reported ballot shortages and down machines sometimes it helped sometimes not so much but the poll watcher has no authority.

Grimes filed suit for shenanigans with "official" election date and misinformation, it was laughed off as electioneering.

[blkmusclmachine]

35. Elected DEMS haven't done squat about voting since Bush v. Gore. They must be happy w/the status quo

[aspirant]

42. Listening to every word

Yes hackers live in both parties. Look at the red/blue state map, more red than blue. Presidential electoral college allows us to win because of the huge states who support us. If the repub hackers operate in the red states,around 30 states, with 2 senators/state it's simple to do the math. Gerrymandering the house seats in those 30 states is still math 101. The Question for me is why the national dem party is content with, I have my hackers and you have yours, when the math is so obvious? I see only one answer, they want it this way. Pretending dems and repubs are on opposite sides of the coin keeps the masses busy while they are actually on the same team playing the game behind closed doors. Then they put out their shills to blame it on the lazy voters, when the game was already predetermined before the election even happened. It's amazing that we don't want to know how and when we are being played. If anyone has a better answer why the national dems are so deafly silent on this issue since the mid-2000"s, I'm all ears.

[Sunlei]

47. no one audits the state and local scammers. only one was caught because she was so out there

in the horse show world with millions!! of spending on show horses. Questions started to be raised (in the horse community) how she could afford them.

was found she was a small town comptroller in Ill. state- she stole $53 million of state taxpayer money, just ONE small town politician comptroller. even her info gets shuttled to tiny online local rags- http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/02/14/rita-crundwell-comptroller-sentenced/

[Sunlei]

54. someone who knows how to recover twitter pages from servers should be all over this, link

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/17/politics/twitter-republicans-outside-groups/index.html

[Cal33]

55. Sunlei, I think this message of yours deserves to be in a thread of its own. It will

reach more people that way, as it should.

[Sunlei]

56. the twitter republican fraud? is posted as breaking news, CNN screen shot the tweets right before

republicans deleted them.

This is a job for those Ds with computer/server/twitter skills.


story link- http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/17/politics/twitter-republicans-outside-groups/index.html